Re: [Audacity-quality] Time track copy-paste and aup3 import

[Peter S. <pet...@gm...>]

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:25 PM Robert Hänggi <aar...@gm...>
wrote:

> Just to inform you about the Reaper behaviour:
> It asks you on import if the tempo should be imported as well. This
> applies mainly to MIDI tracks.
> However, it is the nearest to time tracks (apart from the master play
> rate envelope which is treated like all other envelopes like volume,
> pan, width, pitch).
> In essence, if you want that the user can decide, ask him directly and
> don't presume that he knows that he has first to exclude the other
> time track from the project to be imported in order to keep the new
> one.
> Common sense and more user friendly imho.
>

I like Robert;s thinking here - asking the user, in the situation where
they have a Time Track
on both projects, which one they want to keep sounds eminently sensible ad
as Robert
says user-friendly (also more "discoverable" - removing the chance of nasty
surprises
when the wrong one gets used).

Peter.


Robert
>
> On 30/01/2021, Peter Sampson <pet...@gm...> wrote:
> > Looking at this page:
> > https://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Time_Tracks
> >
> > I see nothing there about the ability (or expectation) to Cut&Paste the
> > Time Track or sections of it.
> >
> > So the ability to do so is either a cunning and tricksy Easter Egg - or
> > it's a bug, I'm thinking.
> >
> > And note that this is different from the ability to import a Time Track
> as
> > part of an imported project
> > which is to be allowed.
> >
> > Peter.
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter.
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:56 PM Peter Sampson <
> > pet...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >> BTW although one can edit the Time Track with Cut&Paste, albeit only
> >> through associated audio
> >> we do have an inconsistency as the Time Track does nor expand/contract
> >> when the associated
> >> audio is modified with the Change Speed effect.
> >>
> >> Peter.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:54 PM Peter Sampson <
> >> pet...@gm...> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:47 PM Steve Fiddle <ste...@gm...
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 16:32, Peter Sampson <
> >>>> pet...@gm...> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:21 PM Steve Fiddle
> >>>>> <ste...@gm...>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Copy and Paste for time  tracks sounds to me like a major can of
> >>>>>> worms. Also, we have recorded precisely zero requests for this
> >>>>>> feature.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I am strongly of the opinion that we should not implement copy /
> >>>>>> paste
> >>>>>> for time tracks until we have a much better implementation of time
> >>>>>> tracks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's not a question of whether we implement or not - you can already
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> it  - but you need to select in the audio
> >>>>> I only tried this with a single audio track and a time track.  I've
> no
> >>>>> idea how it works
> >>>>> a) in a multi-track project - with all or just some tracks with
> >>>>> selected audio
> >>>>> b) when some tracks are above and some below the Time track
> >>>>> c) what the interaction is with Sync-Lock (or other settings)
> >>>>> d) other use cases I haven't thought of yet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Regarding  importing a project, I think that if both the current
> >>>>>> project and the imported project have time tracks, the imported time
> >>>>>> track
> >>>>>> should replace  the current time track. (If the user prefers to
> retain
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> current time track, then they need to remove the time track from the
> >>>>>> project  that they intend to import.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think it should be the other way around.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> If it is the other way round, then either it is impossible to import a
> >>>> time track, or we have some cases where a time track can be imported
> >>>> and
> >>>> some cases where it cannot.
> >>>>
> >>>> On the other hand, if an imported time track overwrites the current
> >>>> time
> >>>> track (if present), then the user has control to either import a time
> >>>> track
> >>>> or not. I'm in favour of allowing the user to make this decision
> rather
> >>>> than prohibiting the import of time tracks or introducing "special
> >>>> case"
> >>>> inconsistencies.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Good point,  I concede, I think you're right about this.
> >>>
> >>> Peter.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you are importing into a project that already has aTime Track then
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> think that Time Track should be retained.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the user wants the imported Time Track to be used then they should
> >>>>> first delete the Time Track in the primary project.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [image: image.png]
> >>>>> Peter.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Steve
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 15:52, Paul Licameli <
> pau...@gm...>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> James, please review these details.  Peter, maybe generate some bug
> >>>>>>> issues.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> How does copy and paste of time track work, and how should it?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Short answer:  you can copy and paste time track points, even into
> a
> >>>>>>> project with an existing time track, though not all the behavior is
> >>>>>>> intuitive.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Question:  If you import an .aup3 project with a time track, should
> >>>>>>> that do the same as paste (pasting at time 0 and shifting other
> >>>>>>> control
> >>>>>>> points right), or should it replace the old time track with a new
> one
> >>>>>>> (but
> >>>>>>> maybe losing some of your data)?  James argues for the second
> >>>>>>> solution, I'm
> >>>>>>> not sure I agree.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We need agreement on that to commit simplified code for aup3
> import,
> >>>>>>> reducing the amount of sqlite3 calls we need to maintain.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Details.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>    1. Make new project with a time track and some control points,
> >>>>>>>    and some generated sound
> >>>>>>>    2. Select all Ctrl + A
> >>>>>>>    3. Select time track and deselect wave track with Ctrl + click
> >>>>>>>    4. Try to copy - dialog box tells you to select some audio
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That has been so at least since 2.3.1:  You can't copy if only time
> >>>>>>> track is selected.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But, if time track is selected and another track -- then is it
> >>>>>>> copied
> >>>>>>> to clipboard?  Since at least 2.3.1, yes, because then pasting into
> >>>>>>> another
> >>>>>>> project makes a time track.  So a time track IS copyable.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But in 2.3.1, the time track points were lost.  2.3.2 changed that.
> >>>>>>> Time track points may be inserted into a time track that already
> >>>>>>> exists and
> >>>>>>> has other points.  There may be discontinuities at the edges of the
> >>>>>>> paste,
> >>>>>>> arguably correct or not.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I also notice that if you have cut time & wave tracks, then paste
> >>>>>>> into a new project with only a time track -- then, whether the wave
> >>>>>>> track
> >>>>>>> pastes or not, depends whether the time track is selected or not.
> If
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>> was, I only paste time track.  Undo, click background, paste --
> then
> >>>>>>> both
> >>>>>>> paste.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >
>
>
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