Re: [Audacity-quality] Fixing the interaction of Undo/Redo and Recording

[Paul L. <pau...@gm...>]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
pet...@gm...> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 6:39 AM, Peter Sampson <
>> pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> I observe (on macOS High Sierra 10.13.2 with *audacity-macos-nightly-2.2.2-4ef8da8.dmg
>>> *
>>> <https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-Mac-Nightlies.html/audacity-macos-nightly-2.2.2-4ef8da8.dmg> -
>>> 26.27 MB | version: 2.2.2--15Jan18)
>>> That behavior has improved (I get no crash now) but it is still not
>>> perfect.
>>>
>>
>> If you mean bug 1822, that is fixed.
>>
>
>
> Technically it is DEVEL FIXMADE and tested (me and Cliff) on Mac only.
>
> It needs to be tested on Windows and Linux before we can we mark it as
> RESOLVED FIXED
>
> And I can't test on Windows as we still have no Windows nightlies on
> Fosshub.
>
>
>
>> If you mean bug 1823, I reverted my fixes so it's open.
>>
>
> And I commented on that bug thread based on the latest Mac nightly:
> *audacity-macos-nightly-2.2.2-4ef8da8.dmg *
> <https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-Mac-Nightlies.html/audacity-macos-nightly-2.2.2-4ef8da8.dmg> -
> 26.27 MB | version: 2.2.2--15Jan18
>
>
>
>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>>
>>> With 2.2.1 using Paul's steps in this thread
>>> 1) after several undos as per the last step I get a crash
>>> 2) using the Discard in the History while recording is active I get a
>>> crash
>>> 3) using the Discard in the History after recording makes no discards at
>>> all
>>>
>>>
>>> With 2.2.2
>>> 1) Undos work, but the recorded audio is removed a bit at a time in
>>> between
>>> the undoing of labels pan/gain.  With final Undo I am still left with
>>> the segment
>>> of audio recorded before the first label was dropped.
>>> In the user's mind surely the completion of the recording (the whole
>>> recording)
>>> with these steps should logically be the last thing on the stack - and
>>> thus the user
>>> could realistically expect the first Undo to delete the recorded audio.
>>>
>>> In fact if all I do is Record and then Stop
>>> a) with the History>Discard the audio is not removed
>>> b) however Undo does remove the audio (but not if you've used
>>> History>Discard first)
>>>
>>
>> All that is as expected.  You can never completely empty history.  There
>> is always at least one state.  History begins with a dummy state for
>> creation of the project, but if you discard that state, then you can't undo
>> the other state for the recording.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The big improvement is that there is no crash
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) The Discard in the History is grayed out and inoperable while
>>> recording is active
>>> so one cannot get a crash a big improvement.
>>>
>>> This also makes for good consistency with the Edit>Undo (in both 2.2.2
>>> 1nd 2.2.1)
>>> as these are grayed out and inoperable while the recording is active.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3) using the Discard in the History after recording makes no discards at
>>> all
>>> just the same as in 2.2.1  -  this is not expected behavior, I would be
>>> expecting
>>> undo to work it's way through the history stack undoing as it goes.
>>> It does empty the items in the History window it just doesn't action the
>>> Undos.
>>>
>>
>> That is as expected.  The Discard button does not perform undo or redo.
>> It purges early states of the history, but not any state at or after your
>> present position in history.
>>
>> States after the present position are the available redo states and
>> appear gray in the History list.
>>
>> The History dialog does let you do one or more Undo or Redo steps at
>> once, just by a click in the list to reposition your current state.
>>
>
>
> Which leaves me even more confused than before :-//
>
> I understand "Undo" - I clearly don't understand History ...
>
> Peter.
>

I don't think it's hard:

There is a list of undo states, oldest at the top.

There is a current state, which is the last state in bold type, with an
arrow to the left, and there are redo states in gray.

If the window is open, it should update whenever a new state is created by
some editing action.  Whenever a new state is added, gray states are lost.

If you undo or redo, the display updates appropriately.

You can also just click any row to move to that as current state, which has
the effect of several undos or redos.

History also lets you discard one or more oldest states, but not the
current state or any later one.

There must always be a current state.  History can never be empty.

PRL


>
>
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> This has for me raised a number of fundamental architectural  design
>>> questions:
>>>
>>> A) Why do we allow the user to adjust the Pan and gain sliders in a
>>> track that they
>>> are recording into?   They have no impact on the ongoing recording, only
>>> impacting
>>> the track when it is played later.
>>>
>>> B) There is a small argument for allowing the gain and pan sliders in
>>> tracks other than
>>> the one in which the ongoing recording is taking place to be usable
>>> while recording
>>> as the user may be overdubbing.  But I will still argue for disabling
>>> all pan/gain
>>> sliders while recording is taking place.
>>>
>>> C) The arguments for A and B above also apply to the Mute and Solo
>>> buttons which I
>>> note are operable while the recording is taking place - once again these
>>> have no
>>> impact on the recorded track while recording, only on playback.
>>> Accordingly I argue for the disabling of these buttons.
>>>
>>> D) We do already inhibit certain actions while recording
>>> i) access to the Device Toolbar (grayed-out)
>>> ii) access to the edit buttons in the Edit Toolbar (grayed-out)
>>> iii) the Play button (grayed-out) in the Transport Toolbar
>>> iv) many/most menu commands (grayed-out)
>>> So I can see no real reason for not adding to that list.
>>>
>>>
>>> Things that we do allow and that are useful are:
>>>
>>> E) Zooms
>>>
>>> F) Labelling (useful but can be risky for the unwary - don't ask me how
>>> I know)
>>>
>>> G) Mixer Toolbar
>>>
>>> We should continue to allow these.
>>>
>>> H) In the Tools Toolbar you can switch tools but all except the
>>> selection tool
>>> are inhibited from use with a no-entry white icon on the waveform
>>> Access to the Selection tool (and selection) can be useful while
>>> recording.
>>>
>>>
>>> We should also bear in mind that doing anything else while recording,
>>> particularly
>>> on older lower-powered engines has the potential to interrupt the
>>> recording and
>>> cause dropouts (unrecoverable) - so minimizing the "stuff" that a user
>>> can do while
>>> recording is almost certainly beneficial.
>>>
>>> It's advice we often give out on the Forum:  "Don't do other stuff on
>>> your computer
>>> while you are recording, especially critical unrepeatable recordings ..."
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Looking at this has reminded me of some earlier discussions of some
>>> months back
>>> when we were discussing the History stack and its inadequacies.
>>>
>>> I suspect that we may have a deeper architectural problem to consider
>>> with this
>>> at some stage - but not right now, I'm thinking.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 1:07 AM, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I lately filed, and submitted fixes for, two bugs involving the
>>>> interaction of recording and undo.  The first is a crash, and the second is
>>>> just some stupid program behavior that has bothered me for a while, and
>>>> needed a nontrivial fix.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like others to give this some exercise, especially regarding the
>>>> latter one.  Compare it with 2.2.1 (and earlier) behavior, and verify that
>>>> it's better now.
>>>>
>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1822
>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1823
>>>>
>>>> Quoting the Steps to Reproduce from 1823:
>>>>
>>>> "New project.
>>>> (Open the history window, this may help.)
>>>> Start recording.
>>>> During recording, do one or more things such as:  Adding a label with
>>>> Ctrl+M (Command+.); moving a pan or gain slider; resizing a track; changing
>>>> selection; changing view type.
>>>> Stop recording.
>>>> Undo several times.
>>>>
>>>> Observe that the first undo does not remove all of the recording.
>>>> Instead, the recording may be removed in stages, parts of it belonging to
>>>> other undo items on the stack.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the recording might become part of the "Created new project"
>>>> undo item at the start of the history, which is never undone.  Thus it
>>>> becomes impossible to undo the project back to its original empty state."
>>>>
>>>> PRL
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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