Re: [Audacity-quality] Exporting audio files

[James C. <cr...@in...>]

On 11/12/2017 4:14 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
> Can I safely presume that this change ("Save Other" in the File Menu to
> "Export") is set to remain for 2.2.1
Yes.

> - I can see it
> in the commits and in the latest Mac nightly but not yet in Windows as we
> have no recent nightly.
>
> I ask because in the Manual there are *many* occurrences if "Save Other"
> that I need to get on dealing with
> and I do not want to start that unless and until I am certain that this
> change will stick.
I will do the image updates for the file menu (4 images I think), and 
the image map, but not today.

> I was originally thinking that a DISPLAYTITLE could be used for the
> existing page
> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/File_Menu:_Save_Other
>
> But maybe I should go for a proper rename - but a *lot* of pages link to
> this page - anybody have any thoughts on this?
Do a rename, with redirect, and then search and replace??  Then if the 
rename page is orphan, remove it.

> Without a proper rename we will end up with many misleading strings (still
> carrying "Save Other" in their page klnks)
> in various places I'm thinking.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gmail.
> com> wrote:
>
>> Once this change gets presented in Windows nightly I van get on with
>> updating the Manual for this.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Steve the Fiddle <
>> ste...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday I was unaware that the & would make a difference to
>>> translations, and changed it to "&Export" (16 hours ago)
>>> Also, I thought that string freeze was scheduled for 10th. Is that not so?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On 9 November 2017 at 08:54, James Crook <cr...@in...> wrote:
>>>> On 11/9/2017 8:53 AM, James Crook wrote:
>>>>> Given string consensus to change it, +1 to changing now, without the &.
>>>>> --James.
>>>>
>>>> for 'string' I meant 'strong'.  It is of course a string change.
>>>>
>>>> --James.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/9/2017 1:36 AM, Cliff Scott wrote:
>>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2017, at 5:21 PM, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bit of unscientific polling of the discussion group I manage:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 33 votes against "Save Other"
>>>>>>> 8 neutral
>>>>>>> 7 in favor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That seems like a large margin of preference for the old name.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Must it be fixed in 2.2.1?  Just changing the sub-menu name to
>>> "Export"
>>>>>>> may be done, and that string is already in the .pot files.  However,
>>> we
>>>>>>> might want to put an accelerator in it with & which would add a
>>> string, and
>>>>>>> I would have to ask -translation for another minor update.
>>>>>> Just my opinion, the sooner it is changed the better it is so people
>>>>>> don't get used to thinking Save Other then have to switch gears again
>>> to
>>>>>> Export.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More ambitious menu reorganizations -- I'd punt that to 2.2.2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PRL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>>>>> <pet...@gm... <mailto:petersampsonaudacity@g
>>> mail.com>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>>>>> <pet...@gm... <mailto:petersampsonaudacity@g
>>> mail.com>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>>>>>> <ste...@gm... <mailto:ste...@gm...>> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8 November 2017 at 16:17, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...
>>>>>>> <mailto:pau...@gm...>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'll go on record disliking "Save other," but that's only one voice.
>>>>>>> and just one voice from me too, hence the reason for raising the
>>> matter
>>>>>>> on-list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my production use of Audacity I find myself increasingly disliking
>>>>>>> the two clicks to get to the Exports
>>>>>>> and indeed, even now having to remember to use Save Other (a "Save"
>>>>>>> command to make an "Export").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firing up 2.1.3 again makes me long for the key Export commands
>>> (Audio,
>>>>>>> Multiple, Selected).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 2.2.0/2.2.1 I do not value the Export as MP3, Export as WAV and
>>>>>>> Export as OGG, always using the
>>>>>>> Export Audio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if we do keep these three (sub)commands then I strongly think
>>> that
>>>>>>> we should have pre-assigned shortcuts
>>>>>>> for them - especially of they stay in a sub-menu.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is quite difficult to set shortcuts - and horrendously difficult
>>>>>>> trying to find available unused ones.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see no reason not to pul at least Export Audio and Export Multiple
>>> to
>>>>>>> the top level of the File Menu and
>>>>>>> replacing the !"Save Other" with "Export Other".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my user-POV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe Forum should decide, but maybe you get a biased sample, those
>>>>>>>> disliking the change more likely to say so.
>>>>>>> Most definitely so, but more than just "not liking the change". We
>>> are
>>>>>>> getting feedback that users are confused by the fact that they can't
>>>>>>> find where / how to export.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We do have to remember, as you Steve used to point out to Gale, that
>>> a
>>>>>>> small no of posters on the Forum
>>>>>>> is a *very* small sample of our user base.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the posters today did ask about customizable menus - is that
>>>>>>> still in your thinking James?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not require or prohibit this change.  If someone decides to
>>> change
>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>> I hope you reuse an already internationalized string _("Export") so
>>>>>>>> .pot
>>>>>>>> doesn't need another update.
>>>>>>> Good point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PRL
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:13 AM, James Crook <cr...@in...
>>>>>>>> <mailto:cr...@in...>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2017 3:50 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8 November 2017 at 15:40, James Crook <cr...@in...
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:cr...@in...>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Doer decides?  You can change it - though perhaps formally get
>>>>>>>>>>> Paul's OK
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> do it since he is (or will be) 2.2.1 RM?  I care about the menus
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>> better organised than they were, not about every single detail.
>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> do change it, you'll be taking responsibility for all those
>>>>>>>>>>> inexperienced
>>>>>>>>>>> users who don't find how to 'Save' as wav!
>>>>>>>>>> Sure, but we're a team, right?
>>>>>>>>>> We have some (admittedly limited) feedback, and I've cast my 2c.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes I agree that the menu reorganisation is the more important
>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>> much improved) part, so just talking details here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do others think? "Save Other" or "Export" or something else?
>>>>>>>>>> Assuming  that the rest of the File menu remains the same, I'm +1
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> "Export"
>>>>>>>>> If we're voting I'm -1 on it changing from "Save Other" - but if it
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> just us two voting and no one else, then I think it should
>>> change.  I
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> I am right in my choice, but I don't think you are terribly
>>>>>>>>> misguidedly
>>>>>>>>> wrong in yours, and the (small) inconvenience to inexperienced
>>> users
>>>>>>>>> matters
>>>>>>>>> less to me than you wanting to change it, because of feedback you
>>> have
>>>>>>>>> received, and not being able to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By contrast I do care a lot more about record-beside and
>>> record-below,
>>>>>>>>> which we also disagree on.  If it came to a vote I would put energy
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>> getting consensus on my side about record-beside being the default.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, I would also like to condense the two optional
>>>>>>>>>>> extra-menus
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>> one.  However, if I do that it's for 2.2.2 rather than 2.2.1
>>> given
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> timescales.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2017 3:04 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> We're getting quite a few people asking how to export a normal
>>>>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>>>>> file.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It would seem that renaming "Export" as "Save Other" has
>>> created as
>>>>>>>>>>>> much confusion  as it resolved.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My personal view is that with the current File menu layout, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing would be to rename "Save Other" back to "Export". Imo,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> reduced size of the menu and improved menu order does enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>> draw
>>>>>>>>>>>> attention to the Export menu item without removing the "E" word.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>
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