Re: [Audacity-devel] Plug-in path on Linux

[Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...>]

<snip>
>>
>> Yes, I made it Mac and Windows only in commit 1dd6b848c28. I needed to
>> define where non-shipped Nyquist plug-ins look for help files so I had
>> to make a decision one way or the other. Adding that empty folder to
>> the Linux installation did not appear to be deliberate as far as I can
>> see (unless anyone knows otherwise?)
>>
>> Not all locations in Audacity's search path are "correct" locations
>> for plug-ins, so we select which locations to look in, and exclude
>> others (which can be per-platform). For example,
>> "_prefix_/share/doc/audacity" (which is in Audacity's search path) is
>> not correct on any platform, so that is excluded from the list of
>> locations where the plug-in manager searches.
>>
>> Currently, and for many years, Audacity has not really known where to
>> look for plug-ins, so we tell it to search broadly, including many
>> locations where plug-ins should not be. Leland added a comment 3 years
>> ago:
>> "// TODO: We REALLY need to figure out the "Audacity" plug-in path(s)"
>> I agree, we do.
>>
>> I don't feel strongly about "where" we decide the correct location for
>> Audacity plug-ins is, but I think we do need to decide. On Linux, I've
>> been using "~/audacity-files/plug-ins" for years, and it is widely
>> documented in the manual, the wiki, the forum and other websites, so I
>> think that currently looks like the best choice.
>
> "~/.audacity-files/plug-ins" seems to me just as non-standard a path
> (especially the name) as "~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins". Some users
> could have been using the latter for years as it was equally
> documented (and existed).
>
> Do you know what other "files" the ~/.audacity-files folder supports?

I've not tested as my other plug-ins are installed in standard locations:

LADSPA "/usr/lib/ladspa"
VST  "/usr/lib/vst/"
LV2 "/usr/lib/lv2"

(note also that they are all lower case)

Generally, other types of plug-ins should be installed in standard
locations so that they are available to other applications. That's not
the case for Nyquist plug-ins as they are "native" to Audacity and are
only supported by Audacity (mostly they don't even work in stand-alone
Nyquist).


>
> If in practical terms "~/.audacity-files/plug-ins" is likely to continue
> to exist for some time, is there any good reason not to create that
> folder group on installation of Audacity?

Planned obsolescence.
Deprecation allows us to work toward a simpler and more rational
system while maintaining backward compatibility and minimising
inconvenience to users.

>
>
>>>
>>>>>> The person writing to feedback@ wanted clarification regarding the
>>>>>> "~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins" folder. My current view is that Audacity
>>>>>> will see some types of plug-ins in this folder but that it is not the
>>>>>> 'correct' location for any types of plug-in on Linux and is therefore
>>>>>> not recommended.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fedora seem persuaded?  But given Audacity built by us does not
>>>>> appear to create this Plug-Ins folder on Linux, which I thought it
>>>>> did, I'd agree we "could" ignore this folder. One problem with doing
>>>>> that is it's inconsistent with mentioning ~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins for
>>>>> LADSPA and VST on
>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Installing_Effect,_Generator_and_Analyzer_plug-ins_on_Linux
>>>>
>>>> On Linux, native VST's are still pretty rare, but as with other
>>>> packages, would normally be installed with a package manager. Anyone
>>>> building native VST plug-ins from source should know what they are
>>>> doing and ensure that the .so file are placed in the VST plug-in path.
>>>> Similarly for the more common LADSPA and LV2 plug-ins.
>>>
>>>> When building from source, installation is often much like it is for
>>>> Audacity: configure, make, then sudo make install to copy the binaries
>>>> into the correct system locations.
>>>>
>>>>>  .
>>>>>
>>>>> If we remove ~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins as a named path for LADSPA
>>>>> and VST, then the list we give for those plugins is incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> As above, I don't think "~/audacity-data/Plug-Ins" is the most
>>>> appropriate location for LADSPA or VST plug-ins on Linux, and we
>>>> should update those sections of the manual.
>>>
>>> The fact is though that we do search there, whether one accepts that
>>> or not (unless you are going to change it).
>>
>> As far as I'm aware, Nyquist plug-ins can currently be loaded from
>> literally anywhere if they are registered by the plug-in manager (in
>> pluginregistry.cfg).
>>
>>>
>>> On balance I still think "~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins" should be mentioned
>>> for Nyquist, LADSPA and VST given it's been mentioned in recent
>>> Manuals and is still supported. Of course, if user wants to completely
>>> reset Audacity Preferences they have to take more care over any
>>> custom plugins that are in "~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins".
>>>
>>> But if you are strongly against, I suggest the green divs for LADSPA
>>> and VST should be clarified so that the noted paths outside
>>> LADSPA_PATH and VST_PATH don't read as now that they are a
>>> complete list of such paths (IIRC, they are a complete list).
>>
>> Perhaps we could compromise; Where we say that plug-ins can also be
>> found in other locations, we could link that to a paragraph at the
>> bottom where we say what those locations are (to the best of our
>> knowledge, as I'm not sure that any of us know 'all' of the possible
>> locations).
>
> I think that just makes more darting around for the user,

If a new user follows our recommendations, then "other locations" are
irrelevant and potentially confusing clutter for them. I think the
most important thing for us, is to make "best practice" instructions
as clear and easy to follow as possible. Additional information can be
useful, but  should not distract from the "best practice"
instructions.

> and
> without saving space because the paths outside VST_PATH
> and outside LADSPA_PATH are of course mainly different.
>
> To try and reach a resolution, and be even-handed to those who
> might be using ~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins, I made it look less
> certain that the VST and LADSPA paths are complete, and marked
> ~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins in those lists as "(deprecated, not created
> automatically)."
>
> Similarly for Nyquist I said that this folder is deprecated and
> reinforced the message to use the paths listed above that.

Those changes look good.

Steve

>
> When we rationalise plug-in paths we can remove the
> "deprecated" references and start with a clean and complete
> list (hopefully).
>
> I hope (pray) this will do.
>
>
>
> Gale
>
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