Re: [Audacity-devel] Start/End/Length/Center Selection.

[Robert H. <aar...@gm...>]

On 22/05/2017, James Crook <cr...@in...> wrote:
> On 5/22/2017 8:24 PM, Robert Hänggi wrote:
>> Thanks James.
>>
>> You're probably right that the two-control Layouts are the easiest to use.
>> Of course I know what you're driving at with "Driven".
>> On first try, I've certainly pressed a dozen times space on the
>> "Selection Options" instead of Enter. ;-)
> Would it help if I allowed that button to accept space as well, making
> it equivalent to enter there  (and not to start/stop play)?
That's a general decision, I think, and it would be useful to have
David's opinion on it eventually.
Not everyone is so clumsy as I...
>
>> We still have the problem that the meaning of e.g. start changes from
>> one option to the other without indication what it does:
>>
>> 1. Start-End
>>     means that start drives the (invisible) length
>> 2. Start-Length
>>     means that start drives the (invisible) end
>
> Currently the screen reader should just be reading 'Start' when you tab
> onto the start numerical control.

"Selection Start" to be precise.

>
> I can easily change it to say 'Start (length fixed)' or 'Start (center
> fixed)' or 'Start (end fixed)'.  Would that help?  I presume that with a
> screen reader, if you are in a hurry, you can choose to skip hearing the
> full text.  Is that so?>
Yes, you can press control or shift  to stop the talking.

> Note that there are always two values being driven.  So if we are in
> Start-End mode, both 'length' and 'center' are being driven, whether or
> not they are actually shown on screen.
>

Center is not really important in that context, only where we apply
reversed linking.
That's why I always made the distinction for the two-control case of
having "Span" or similar and not Length.
However, I think it will work without a new label.
>> Thus, it would be useful to indicate the changed behaviour in one of
>> those options.
>> Again, this is for VI users that jump to the control and have
>> forgotten if length or end is active.
>> Same for the second control
>> I assume here that Start is replaced by End (currently, it's interchanged)
>> So we have
>> 2. Start-Length
>>     means that length drives (invisible) end
>> 3. End-Length
>>     means that length drives (invisible) start
>> 4. Center-Length
>>     means that length drives start and end in opposite directions or
>> that center does not affect the length.
>>
>> Same for the two End cases...
>>
>> For sighted users, this info is superfluous since they see at a glance
>> what controls are active.
>>
>> But you can put off enhancing this.
> I'd like to get it right now, and it sounds like it is just updating the
> names a bit more cleverly.  Does that sound like I have understood
> correctly?

Exactly so.
>
>
>> I can tell you how I will probably change the behaviour (in my screen
>> reader script) if we stick to the Selection Options button and the
>> four combinations of two controls that are listed above:
>>
>> a) implement shortcuts that immediately jump to the two controls.
>> b) describe what the chosen control will affect,  e.g. "Start (moves
>> selection)" for Start-Length
> If I make my change, there will be 12 possible strings like 'Start
> (length fixed)'.  There are four possible controls to set the value of,
> and then a choice of three remaining values to stay fixed, and the
> remaining two values are 'driven'.
>
> They will all have the same generic format 'parameter1 (parameter2
> fixed)' but my understanding is that you would rename those 12 as you
> see fit using the screen reader.  Is that right?
>
The question is if we need combinations exceeding two controls at a
time. It would certainly be easier from a layout perspective if the
toolbar has always the same length.

Or, we could have the best of both worlds:

1. Your "Selection Options" holds all variants (that are currently in there)
2. Clicking the title switches through the two  most used combinations
(start-length and start-end). Keyboard users would switch with enter
or another appropriate shortcut.

However, this will probably clash with the 3 and 4 controls mode where
clicking the title means currently changing the "driven" case (if I
understood your implementation correctly).

>> c) provide the means to change the combination without having to leave
>> the control, most likely by toggling with the Enter key or clicking on
>> the title for those with rest-sight.
> If you are changing one of the controls, there are three possible other
> controls that can be 'fixed'.  So a toggle is not enough.  It suggests
> to me that you need a key bound for each of the 4 title-clickings.
>
No, that's not the idea.
I'm concentrating on the two controls display. The key binding is for
both the same--let's assume it is the enter key.
In its simplest form:

- You are in the Start field and it says "Selection Start"
  You press Enter and it says "Selection Start (Fixed Length)
  ...and back again, unless we include also End and Center in the ring.
And similar for the other control.

If we were displaying three or four controls, the Enter key would
bring us automatically back to the two-controls ring unless we are in
the third or forth one, of course.

But first, we must decide how the wording for each combination and
each control should be in order to make it instantly recognizable.

 > Do you need me to add bindable commands for those title-clickings, or
> will the screen reader handle that without?

Not natively.
Currently, I'm having problems to
examine the hierarchy. Of a sudden, all controls are on the same
level. I don't know if this is caused by the latest screen reader
update or Windows 10 peculiarities.

For a beginning, it would be great to have assignable commands for a
jump to the Start and End/Length controls.
I must give the rest a bit of further thought.

Thx
Robert


>
>> (Although I initially wanted the Enter key to perform a going back to
>> the Track View).
>>
>> This is actually independent of whether we will keep the old style or
>> switch to the new one.
> OK.
>
> --James.
>
>>
>> Robert
>> Robert
>>
>>
>> On 22/05/2017, James Crook <cr...@in...> wrote:
>>> Robert,
>>>
>>> I've made working with all four controls much nicer now (for sighted
>>> users).  If they want to preserve center and change length, they click
>>> on the title 'Center' and then they edit length.  The two other
>>> controls, 'Start' and 'End', are driven by the length changes, and move
>>> in opposite directions as length changes.
>>>
>>> At the moment VI users would, I think, use the workaround of navigating
>>> to Center, clicking up-arrow and then down-arrow, which makes no net
>>> change, and then go and edit length.  Center is then preserved as they
>>> change length.
>>>
>>> Would it make sense for 'return' to do the equivalent, saving one
>>> keystroke?
>>>
>>> I could also provide key-bindable commands for 'fix-start',
>>> 'fix-center', 'fix-length' and 'fix-end', to do 'the same thing'. Which
>>> of these are worth doing?
>>>
>>>
>>> --James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/22/2017 2:02 PM, James Crook wrote:
>>>> OK Robert.  I've done this and it is now in HEAD.
>>>>
>>>> No more radio buttons above the controls for start/end/center/length.
>>>> Instead there is a button before them all, that pops up a menu that
>>>> gives you a choice of which to show.
>>>>
>>>> I think most users (including me!) will just show two at a time, so
>>>> please mostly give feedback on that.  Advanced users may show three at
>>>> a time, or all four, and for them there is a hint which shows which
>>>> boxes are currently being driven.  E.g. if you are modifying start and
>>>> end, then length will be driven (derived) from the start and end values.
>>>>
>>>> Whichever values you modified most recently are the ones driving, and
>>>> the other two are the ones being driven.
>>>>
>>>> I made a new icon for the button for the menu.  The icon is currently
>>>> Classic Theme only.  Other themes show a black button. If the feature
>>>> survives as one we want, I will add the icon to the three other themes
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>
>>>> --James.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2017 6:35 PM, Robert Hänggi wrote:
>>>>> On 20/05/2017, James Crook <cr...@in...> wrote:
>>>>>> Robert,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about if the options are  to show:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Start - End
>>>>>> Start - Length
>>>>>> Length - End
>>>>>> Start - End - Length
>>>>>> Start - End - Length - Center.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use any of the first three, it is simple and easy to
>>>>>> understand.
>>>>>> You change one, and the other one stays fixed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are a more advanced user, and have the space on screen, you
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> use one of the last two options.  If you want to set Length and End,
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> example, you edit Length, and then edit End, or the other way round.
>>>>>> Start,  and Center if it is shown, will update as needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds good.
>>>>> Where do you want to place these options?
>>>>> I would put them into a combo box above the controls (first tab order
>>>>> when approaching from "Snap-to".
>>>>> It shouldn't go into the context menu since it is hard to discover,
>>>>> the tool tip to explain it and formats at the same time would be to
>>>>> verbose and we have certainly already a lot of entries there (At one
>>>>> time or another, we will have to add measures and bars as well).
>>>>>
>>>>> If not too difficult, I would also add a two (or three) controls
>>>>> option with Center.
>>>>> Center would move the selection and length would shrink or grow in the
>>>>> fashion we've elaborated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That does mean that if you want to work with center then you need the
>>>>>> full display of Start-End-Length-Center.  But I think that is
>>>>>> reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Robert Hänggi wrote:
>>>>>>> (snip)
>>>>>>>> I don't want to go as far as displaying half sample values, so
>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>> would be shown rounded to nearest sample (for 2.2.0)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does the basic plan of doing away with the radio buttons and instead
>>>>>>>> using the format menu to select format and fields-to-show sound
>>>>>>>> good?
>>>>>>>> Instead of radio buttons we would have field names above the fields.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It does not yet appeal to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would probably stick to the radio buttons for now but with a bit of
>>>>>>> modification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Start End and Length are always shown
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. The radio group would look something like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Move Start/End
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Free  (same as currently "End")
>>>>>>> * together (Same as "Length" and adjusting start but it is also
>>>>>>> possible to move the selection by changing the End value)
>>>>>>> (optionally:)
>>>>>>> * Oppositely (Comparable to the Span scheme, one entry moves the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> at the same time in the opposite direction)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ideally, "end" would change to "Center", otherwise the selection
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> only be stretched but not moved.
>>>>>>> Alternatively, only the length control will affect the length and the
>>>>>>> other two would move the entire selection. This is probably better.
>>>>>>> However, this is difficult to express as a radio button label
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> "Move Start/End"
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> * When Adjusting Length"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visually, this could be indicated by drawing a center line within the
>>>>>>> selection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, I won't be angry if you omit the last radio button (or
>>>>>>> revert
>>>>>>> your changes).
>>>>>>> The important point is that we have all three controls at the same
>>>>>>> time displayed.
>>>>>>> The second choice is the most versatile and I would probably keep it
>>>>>>> checked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The task is the more difficult as we don't know what implications
>>>>>>> further development will have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd also like to think a bit about the future, as to how to
>>>>>>>>>>>> deal with
>>>>>>>>>>>> both labels and clips 'in the same way' using the selection
>>>>>>>>>>>> bar.  For
>>>>>>>>>>>> labels we would like to be able to set mid point and length
>>>>>>>>>>>> just as
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> selections.  We also potentially have multiple labels that
>>>>>>>>>>>> share end
>>>>>>>>>>>> points, so the end of one label is the start of the next.  For
>>>>>>>>>>>> clips,
>>>>>>>>>>>> length may be read-only information but end or start can be
>>>>>>>>>>>> changed.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dealing with clips suggests that we also want to support
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Length +
>>>>>>>>>>>> End'
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a combination, especially when lining things up to end at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Translating that point back to the Selection Toolbar, we'd want
>>>>>>>>>>>> options:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Start + End
>>>>>>>>>>>> Start + Length
>>>>>>>>>>>> Length + End
>>>>>>>>>>>> Center + Span
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think radio buttons no longer suit.   Instead I'm suggesting
>>>>>>>>>>>> titles
>>>>>>>>>>>> above the toolbar fields, and elsewhere you select which
>>>>>>>>>>>> fields to
>>>>>>>>>>>> show.  Potentially there would be a lot more flexibility.  If
>>>>>>>>>>>> you had
>>>>>>>>>>>> the space, you could choose, for example, to show start, end,
>>>>>>>>>>>> length
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> center, all at the same time, and adjust any one of them.
>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>> I was always for displaying start-length-end.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've also contemplated using modifiers in those fields (mouse or
>>>>>>>>>>> keyboard, doesn't matter).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine the following situation:
>>>>>>>>>>> The user wants only the start and end times being displayed but
>>>>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>>>>> same time being able to adjust those values without loosing the
>>>>>>>>>>> length.
>>>>>>>>>>> Pressing Shift while adjusting Start or End could do the trick.
>>>>>>>>>>> "Press Shift to Preserve the Length" or "Press Shift to Nudge
>>>>>>>>>>> Selection" as possible tooltips.
>>>>>>>>>> I see modifier keys as 'elaborations' on some method that ought
>>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>>> designed to work fine without them.
>>>>>>>>>> I am not keen on modifiers being the primary mechanism.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would prefer something like a drop down that chooses what
>>>>>>>>>> value(s) to
>>>>>>>>>> preserve (read only) when making changes.  With four values
>>>>>>>>>> (start,
>>>>>>>>>> end,
>>>>>>>>>> length, center) and two constraints (s+l=e, s+e=2c) we can
>>>>>>>>>> preserve
>>>>>>>>>> (lock) one value and modify any of the others.  So there are
>>>>>>>>>> four modes
>>>>>>>>>> of operation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Length locked, you can change any of start, end or center
>>>>>>>>>> Start locked, you can  change any of length, end or center.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and so on.  In each mode you can change any of the three values
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> isn't locked.
>>>>>>>>>> So rather than modifiers, I'm suggesting a drop down, and keyboard
>>>>>>>>>> shortcuts to set which value is locked.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We could also dispense with that entirely and simply lock the most
>>>>>>>>>> recently changed value.  So a user who sets start and then end, or
>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>> and then length, or length and then center, will get exactly
>>>>>>>>>> what they
>>>>>>>>>> want.  It is not a bad principle.  The principle is that
>>>>>>>>>> whatever value
>>>>>>>>>> they set last is what they actually want for that value.  Users
>>>>>>>>>> may not
>>>>>>>>>> figure out exactly what the rule is, but they won't be stuck.
>>>>>>>>>> If they
>>>>>>>>>> just edit the two values they want then they get the result they
>>>>>>>>>> want.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the case of only showing two of the values, the behaviour is
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>> very understandable.  Whichever value you edit, 'the other one'
>>>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>> changed.  So 'lock the most recent' is a more general version of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> approach for showing two values, that works when three or all four
>>>>>>>>>> values are shown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Equally, when Length is displayed, Shift could do the "Span"
>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>> without the Span box itself visible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's one disadvantage to the "Show all controls approach":
>>>>>>>>>>> Adjusting Start without a modifier will always modify the
>>>>>>>>>>> length as
>>>>>>>>>>> well, in other words, the "Start+Length" behaviour gets lost.
>>>>>>>>>>> You had to simulate this behaviour with "Center" which never
>>>>>>>>>>> modifies
>>>>>>>>>>> the length.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>>>>>> For Labels and Clips, we would have a slightly different
>>>>>>>>>>> behaviour, I
>>>>>>>>>>> think, and it needs a lot of discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>> For instance, will adjusting the start time of a clip move it
>>>>>>>>>>> around,
>>>>>>>>>>> trim it, time stretch it or what?
>>>>>>>>>> My assumption is that for clips, length is fixed.  You can only
>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>> the length by acting on the clip, e.g with time stretch or
>>>>>>>>>> truncate
>>>>>>>>>> silence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lots of possibilities and dangers as well.
>>>>>>>>>> So I am now a bit unsure what to implement.  I think I will just
>>>>>>>>>> (for
>>>>>>>>>> now) offer the four options that just show two of the values. You
>>>>>>>>>> select
>>>>>>>>>> them from the number-format drop-down menu.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does that sound a good plan?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For a future Audacity, we know we can extend that to showing
>>>>>>>>>> more of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> values, without the underlying rules changing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps used
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a clip or label explorer we could also add buttons for next
>>>>>>>>>>>> clip/label and previous clip/label on that toolbar, and an
>>>>>>>>>>>> indication
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> whether to skip or select space between clips/labels when
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigating
>>>>>>>>>>>> left/right. We could also walk the selection left/right (by its
>>>>>>>>>>>> length)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not keen to change to end/length/span radio button only to
>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>> them again in the next iteration.  So I am suggesting we
>>>>>>>>>>>> instead take
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> small step directly towards the very flexible selection bar.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.2.0
>>>>>>>>>>>> the words 'Center' and 'Span' would be read only text.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Changing them
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> show 'Start' 'End' would be done from the drop down on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> That pop-up menu, which currently only offers formats, would
>>>>>>>>>>>> gain the
>>>>>>>>>>>> four new options at the top.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For some iteration later than 2.2.0 we can offer the option of
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> four
>>>>>>>>>>>> fields at the same time, or the option to invoke a dialog to
>>>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>> the toolbar in more detail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/19/2017 2:58 PM, Robert Hänggi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks James for implementing Martin's and my idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've tested it with "Crossfade Clips" and it works as expected,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> namely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nicely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I fear that the VI community won't be to happy about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> change... ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. The selected start option is not reflected by the "Length"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A VI user does only see the control name he's working with.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> He could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have previously used the length control while in center mode
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> meanwhile forgotten that it is in this mode (Ctrl+F6 would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bring him
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back to "Length"). Thus he would change the selection on both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sides
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unintentionally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Changing the value does not mean the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - with start checked, the length will increase towards the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - with Center checked, the length will increase in both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, I would indicate the mode here as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I previously called it "Width" but there are other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - "Span"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - "Extent"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that could serve as alias.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. We have now two radio button groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As mentioned earlier, the navigation in the selection bar is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a keyboard user: The focus goes tab-wise from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Start/Center -> End/Length -> Project Rate -> Snap to ->
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Selection
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Start -> Selection End -> Audio position -> Start/Center.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, radio buttons and the respective controls are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> torn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I'm still not convinced that we need two separate groups;
>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay off to have the combination Center+End?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note: the latter had to be renamed in the same fashion as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Length"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the same reason.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would therefore just add a third radio button e.g.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Center/Span"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alongside the known ones. If desired, the lost one could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> added as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well, e.g. "Center/Right".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/05/2017, Peter Sampson <pet...@gm...>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a personal use case for this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every week I record a two-hour radio show with an unattended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Timeer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Record
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while I sleep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following morning I deal with the editing/processing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> key
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do is to find the adverts (for other shows from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> station)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the middle of the show - DCFM is not time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurate/precise in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I create a selection window 15 mins each side of the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert's suggestion would aid that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peter
>>>
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