Re: [Audacity-quality] How do existing users find the new "Low rolloff for speech" preset?
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Re: [Audacity-quality] How do existing users find the new "Low rolloff for speech" preset?
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2016-02-29 14:40:12
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On 29 February 2016 at 00:50, Gale <ga...@au...> wrote: > Thanks, Steve. Much better than what we had before (tested on Windows > 10). > > I do have three questions. > > 1) What about if there is already a curve with the name of the curve we > want to update, which might happen in future? If there is already a curve > called "Low rolloff for speech" in EQCurves.xml when user comes from > 2.1.2 to 2.1.3, that curve does not get updated to the new version. > > I assume we would want to move the existing "Low rolloff for speech" to > "Low rolloff for speech(old)" and merge the new version? Are there old > copies of this rolloff curve already in circulation that have different > values? > > 2) What about the case where the user has a custom default set of curves > at "EQDefaultCurves.xml" in the Audacity folder for application data, but > they are not using that set? By that I mean, the user added EQCurves.xml > before launch of Audacity so that the custom default set gets ignored. > > In my testing, we load curves from that custom "EQDefaultCurves.xml" > that are not in "EQCurves.xml". I suspect the user might not want that. > Moreover we don't then merge "Low rolloff for speech" from the > "EQDefaultCurves.xml" in the installation folder, even if it's missing from > "EQCurves.xml". I've re-read your point (2). "EQDefaultCurves.xml" is the file in which we ship the set of factory default curves. This file is a standard part of the shipped Audacity bundle and should not be modified by users. If users modify files that are in the shipped Audacity bundle without understanding what they are doing, they should expect that Audacity will not work in the way that it was intended to. For example, if the user deletes or renames the EQDefaultCurves.xml file in a freshly installed Audacity installation, then the Equalization effect will have no default curves (other than the "unnamed" empty setting). "EQCurves.xml" is the file that contains the installed set of curves. For a clean installation, this will be populated with the default curves (provided that an unmodified EQDefaultCurves.xml file can be found). This file also contains custom curves that have been created by the user. The recommended way to add new curves is to use the "Manage Curves" dialog as described in the manual (http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/equalization.html#manage). The EQCurves.xml file 'could' be directly edited in a text editor, or the file could be overwritten by the user, but if the modified version is not a valid XML file containing valid curve data, then the Equalization effect may not work as intended. > > 3) Minor point, but the merge resets the current curve to "unnamed" > rather than presenting the curve specified in pluginsettings.cfg. That appears to be due to a bug that predates my changes. I'll take a look and see if I can fix it. Steve > > > Gale > > > Stevethefiddle wrote >> Please try now. >> >> The first time that the Eq effect runs after upgrade, it looks for the >> EqCurve version number in audacity.cfg (this will probably change when >> the Equalization effect has been overhauled). The version number for >> the default curves in Audacity 2.1.3 is 1.0. >> >> If the version number in preferences is not 1.0 (or there is no >> version number) then Audacity looks for EQDefaultCurves.xml and if >> found, looks to see if there are any curves that the user does not >> currently have in their EQCurves.xml file. New curves are merged into >> the EQCurves.xml file, and the list of curves in the Eq effect is >> updated. >> >> The list of curves is sorted so that those that we ship are listed >> first (in alphanumeric order), followed by user curves (in whatever >> order the user had them). All curves that the user made or modified >> are preserved. >> >> To test merging, the EqCurves.xml file needs to be different from >> EQDefaultCurves.xml, and in audacity.cfg, >> [Effects/Equalization]/PresetVersion=1.0 should either not exist, or >> not be version 1.0. >> >> Steve >> >> >> On 23 February 2016 at 09:38, Steve the Fiddle < > >> stevethefiddle@ > >> > wrote: >>> My current thinking is: >>> >>> * We need to be able to update the shipped preset defaults (otherwise >>> we are locked into the old presets forever). >>> >>> * Leland has said that he is keen to overhaul the Equalization effect >>> (he's currently tied up with other work). >>> >>> * An overhaul of the Equalization effect is necessary (multiple bugs >>> and limitations that can be best addressed by starting over). >>> >>> * When a user updates to a new version of Audacity, they benefit from >>> bug fixes, enhancements and new effects that are part of that new >>> version. They should also benefit from improvements to "factory >>> default" presets. >>> >>> * Custom user presets should be preserved if possible (important). >>> >>> * The XML format for Eq curves will (hopefully) be updated in the >>> future (for example: to include "filter length") >>> >>> * The shipped "EqCurves" default XML file should carry a version number. >>> >>> * It's not a good time to change the XML until we see what the new >>> version of the Equalization effect requires. >>> >>> So what I have in mind is that, for now we store a version number for >>> the shipped EqCurves in Preferences, (we will probably want to move >>> that into the XML file later). >>> On upgrading Audacity, there is a one-time (first use) update of the >>> shipped presets. >>> Custom user settings are retained. >>> The updated presets are merged into the EQCurves.XML file if it >>> exists, overwriting the old shipped presets so that we don't get >>> duplicates. >>> Beyond Audacity 2.1.3, downgrading the Audacity version will update >>> the shipped presets to the version appropriate to the version of >>> Audacity (this can only work back as far as Audacity 2.1.3 as we don't >>> yet support preset "version"). >>> >>> Testing on all platforms will be important to ensure that the paths to >>> the XML files work correctly cross-platform. Unfortunately I am only >>> able to test this on Linux at the moment because building on OS X is >>> still broken. >>> >>> I'll upload a new branch to GitHub and hopefully someone can test it on >>> Windows. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On 22 February 2016 at 00:30, Gale < > >> gale@ > >> > wrote: >>>> Stevethefiddle wrote >>>>> Does clicking the "defaults" button load it for you? >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>> >>>> I only tested it on Windows, but yes, Defaults does load the >>>> EQDefaultCurves.xml >>>> that we installed, and as expected not any version of that file that the >>>> user >>>> may have put in the Audacity folder for application data. >>>> >>>> But of course pressing Defaults also throws out all the custom curves >>>> that >>>> a user may have saved, rather than the ideal scenario of keeping their >>>> custom curves and inserting the new shipped curve. >>>> >>>> Fortunately "Cancel" after "Defaults" reverts the change, and if you do >>>> OK >>>> rather than Cancel you still have your custom curves (for now) in >>>> EQBackup.xml >>>> in the application data folder. But I don't think we can recommend >>>> "Defaults" >>>> as the only way to obtain the new curve. >>>> >>>> Is my idea of merging the new curve with EQCurves.xml feasible? If not, >>>> it >>>> would seem better to offer the new curve separately on >>>> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/EQCurvesDownload ? I don't have much >>>> confidence in providing instructions to copy part of >>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/audacity/audacity/master/presets/EQDefaultCurves.xml >>>> >>>> and paste it into EQCurves.xml. >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 18 February 2016 at 01:56, Gale <gale@> wrote: >>>>> Stevethefiddle wrote >>>>>> I have no way to test this. >>>>>> i don't build on Windows, I can only find ZIP versions for Windows and >>>>>> there has been no DMG for Mac since 13th and i can't get Audacity to >>>>>> build on OS X. >>>>>> How have you tested? if you have a Windows installer, could you send >>>>>> me a >>>>>> copy? >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> It's a cross-platform issue, and nothing specific to the Windows >>>>> installer. >>>>> >>>>> The Windows installer will put the new EQDefaultCurves.xml alongside >>>>> audacity.exe in the installation folder (and on Linux that file will >>>>> be >>>>> installed to /usr/local/share/audacity/). >>>>> >>>>> But by design, Equalization will look first for its curves at >>>>> EQCurves.xml >>>>> in >>>>> %APPDATA%\Audacity (or on Linux, for EQCurves.xml in ~/.audacity-data/ >>>>> ). >>>>> >>>>> To test it, assuming your ~/.audacity-data/EQCurves.xml now contains >>>>> "Low rolloff for speech", quit Audacity, then remove "Low rolloff for >>>>> speech" >>>>> from that EQCurves.xml. This will give you an EQCurves.xml such as a >>>>> user of Audacity 2.1.2 will have. >>>>> >>>>> Now launch 2.1.3-alpha. "Low rolloff for speech" won't be in >>>>> Equalization. >>>>> >>>>> It's not a bug, just a limitation of how things are, but I was >>>>> wondering >>>>> what the best way to handle it would be. We want existing users who >>>>> upgrade to 2.1.3 to be able to use the new curve as easily as possible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 17 February 2016 at 23:48, Gale <gale@> wrote: >>>>>> Stevethefiddle wrote >>>>>>> How do we normally update the EQCurves.xml file? I thought it was >>>>>>> updated automagically on first use of the equalization effect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>> >>>>>> EQCurves.xml is updated on every "OK" on Equalization AFAIK, but as >>>>>> of quite a while ago we no longer build default curves into Audacity. >>>>>> So >>>>>> there is no mechanism to add new default curves into an existing set >>>>>> of >>>>>> Equalization curves, short of the user importing them as single >>>>>> curves. >>>>>> Or the user can delete EQCurves.xml. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps one method would be - when we add new curves henceforth >>>>>> to EQDefaultCurves.xml, mark them with some identifier that Audacity >>>>>> looks for that tells it to merge them with EQCurves.xml (changing >>>>>> their >>>>>> name to >> <curve-name> >> -default if the curve name already exists). >>>>>> >>>>>> We could use that method too if we update a default curve. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 17 February 2016 at 16:47, Gale <gale@> wrote: >>>>>>> I don't see how existing users will see the new low rolloff preset, >>>>>>> unless >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> import EQDefaultCurves.xml which will give them many duplicate >>>>>>> presets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Audacity will just read EQCurves.xml in Audacity's folder for >>>>>>> application >>>>>>> data, >>>>>>> if that xml files exists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gale > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://audacity.238276.n2.nabble.com/How-do-existing-users-find-the-new-Low-rolloff-for-speech-preset-tp7572531p7572692.html > Sent from the audacity-quality mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. 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