Re: [Audacity-quality] How to set Waveform (dB) the default view

[Paul L. <pau...@gm...>]

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 7:29 AM, Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...>
wrote:

> On 15 August 2015 at 21:03, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't like it.
> >
> > Scales should be available in View Settings... for per-track settings,
> and
> > in Preferences for default settings.  If you find them in one place in
> View
> > Settings... , you should expect to find them in the corresponding place
> in
> > Preferences.
> >
> > What do you think of breaking the Spectrograms page up into two or more?
> >
> > The "Waveforms" page does look bare, but I am working on adding another
> > drop-down to it.  I intend that the "Meter/Waveform dB Range" in
> Interface
> > should no longer affect Waveforms and be renamed.  (Actually it affects
> the
> > Plot Spectrum window too, and determines the sound activated recording
> > threshold.)  There will be an independent setting in the Waveforms page,
> and
> > it will likewise have a default but also allow a per-track setting.
>
> I think we should be making the UI simpler not more complicated.
>
> Steve
>

I disagree with that as a blanket principle.  The UI should be as simple as
possible but not simpler, as we also add capability and provide more
choices to advanced users who want them.

And what defines a "simple" UI?  By complicating the tree of pages for
spectrograms in View Settings with the hidden, seldom used, advanced
sub-pages, we could simplify the Spectrograms page that new users will
first see when exploring this.

Infrequently used things can suffer a bit of complication in the keystrokes
or clicks to access them so that the commonly used menus and dialogs are
uncluttered and less intimidating.  The multiplication of view types in
2.1.1 was a bad complication.  Keeping that complexity but hiding it in
View Settings... is not less complicated, it is differently complicated,
but in a better way.

I believe that spectrogram scale choice is already an exotic and
infrequently used thing and we don't need to keep the conventions of the
legacy user interface here.  Hiding that choice in View Settings... make
sense to me.  I am not so certain that applies to Waveform dB choice too
(which needs renaming as I argued elsewhere).  I could put that choice back
in the drop-down menu.  But the choice of scale would also remain in the
View Settings... page.

PRL


> >
> > PRL
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'd also like to reiterate that
> >> "spectrogram type = frequency"
> >> is much more user friendly that
> >> "spectrogram algorithm = STFT"
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15 August 2015 at 16:58, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Steve the Fiddle
> >> > <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On 15 August 2015 at 03:41, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > It was already the case that Spectrograms preferences affect only
> the
> >> >> > display tracks but have their own separate page.
> >> >>
> >> >> I wasn't asking about that. I was asking how to set Waveform (dB) as
> >> >> the default track view, because I am aware that this is a very
> >> >> strongly held preference for many of our users and I couldn't see it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You said "I expected that preferences that are exclusively for tracks
> >> > would
> >> > be
> >> > in the "tracks" preferences. As this setting is not in the "tracks"
> >> > preferences, I wondered whether the setting was not exclusive to
> >> > tracks."
> >> >
> >> > That is why I pointed out that it was already not so, that settings
> >> > applying
> >> > only to tracks are found only in Tracks Preferences.  Rather, the
> >> > spectrograms settings were in another page.
> >> >
> >> > I like Peter's response that therefore Spectrograms should be in a
> >> > subtree
> >> > under Tracks and Waveforms with it.  See the latest builds.
> >> >
> >> > I hope that users accustomed to the drop-down will easily discover how
> >> > to
> >> > make one track show dB in View Settings.  Once that is understood, I
> >> > hope
> >> > the new arrangement of Preferences will suggest where to find the
> >> > corresponding control for default track settings.
> >> >
> >> > PRL
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Peter replied but he had also failed to find the appropriate setting.
> >> >>
> >> >> I failed to find the appropriate setting because I was expecting to
> >> >> find it in the "tracks" preferences.
> >> >> This is early "user feedback" from alpha testing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > PRL
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Steve the Fiddle
> >> >> > <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 15 August 2015 at 03:24, Paul Licameli <
> pau...@gm...>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > It affects only the display of tracks.  What else did you think
> it
> >> >> >> > might
> >> >> >> > affect?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> No idea, that's why I asked.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I expected that preferences that are exclusively for tracks would
> be
> >> >> >> in the "tracks" preferences. As this setting is not in the
> "tracks"
> >> >> >> preferences, I wondered whether the setting was not exclusive to
> >> >> >> tracks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Steve
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > PRL
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Steve the Fiddle
> >> >> >> > <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On 15 August 2015 at 02:43, Paul Licameli
> >> >> >> >> <pau...@gm...>
> >> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > What do you mean by the waveform setting?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I mean the one setting in the new "Waveforms" page in
> >> >> >> >> Preferences.
> >> >> >> >> Does it affect anything other than tracks?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Steve
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Waveform is a choice in the track drop-down, and "Waveforms"
> is
> >> >> >> >> > a
> >> >> >> >> > new
> >> >> >> >> > page
> >> >> >> >> > in Preferences, and that page is also seen in View Settings.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > You can switch the view of a track between waveform and
> >> >> >> >> > spectrum
> >> >> >> >> > with
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > drop-down, and you can also do that in the View Settings
> dialog
> >> >> >> >> > by
> >> >> >> >> > changing
> >> >> >> >> > the page and hitting OK or Apply.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > I admit the Waveforms page looks rather bare, with only that
> >> >> >> >> > one
> >> >> >> >> > drop-down
> >> >> >> >> > in it.  I have thought that the bottom of the dB scale, which
> >> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> >> > now
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > Interface preferences, might become a per-track setting.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > PRL
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Steve the Fiddle
> >> >> >> >> > <ste...@gm...>
> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> On 14 August 2015 at 18:56, Paul Licameli
> >> >> >> >> >> <pau...@gm...>
> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > In Tracks preferences select Waveform, and in Waveforms
> >> >> >> >> >> > preferences,
> >> >> >> >> >> > select
> >> >> >> >> >> > Logarithmic.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >> >> >> Does the "Waveform" setting affect anything other than
> tracks.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Steve
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > PRL
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Steve the Fiddle
> >> >> >> >> >> > <ste...@gm...>
> >> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> How can the default track view be set to "Waveform (dB)"
> in
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Audacity
> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2.1.2?
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> >> >> > Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> >> >> Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> >> >>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> >> > Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> >> >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> >> Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> > Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> >> Aud...@li...
> >> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> > Aud...@li...
> >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> >> Aud...@li...
> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> > Aud...@li...
> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
> >> Aud...@li...
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Audacity-quality mailing list
> > Aud...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> Aud...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>