Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551

[Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...>]

Thanks Joel, but neither of those patches are building for me on Linux. I
expect that the problem is trivial, but as we are now going into a release
cycle can I suggest that we come back to this after 2.0.4 release?

Steve


On 19 August 2013 21:18, Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> wrote:

> Hello Gale, Hello Steve,
>
> I have had a look to the bug 551 described by Gale.
>
> In fact this is not a bug, the metadata is just not saved from a previous
> edition to the next.
>
> There is a very simple way to fix this.
> At start ExportMultiple uses tags stored in the project:
>
> "        // copy project metadata to start with
>             setting.filetags = *(mProject->GetTags());
> "
> ==> Storing the tags in the project when leaving the Metadata editor is a
> easy way to recover them for the next time slice.
>
> You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch". This
> is a very short patch.
>
> But this solution has two drawbacks:
> - it opens the Metadata editor for every time slice and i think this is a
> nuisance.
> - Although declared as "read only" the "Title" and the "Track" fields can
> still be edited (at least on Windows). The modifications are accepted but
> not taken into account, this is confusing.
>
> ==> I have developed another solution:
> - The Metadata editor is opened only once.
> - A modification to the "Title" or to the "Track" fields are taken into
> account (but they do not modify the "labelx" file names.
>
> You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch".
>
> This last patch only modifies the "ExportMultiple.cpp" file.
> Therefore installing the first patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch" is not
> necessary to experiment this second patch.
>
> REMARK: this last patch only modifies the method "ExportMultipleByLabel"
> used in the example described by Gale. I did not yet fix the method
> "ExportMultipleByTrack". This is almost the same, but i will do this only
> if the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch" is preferred.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:55:24 +0100
> > From: ste...@gm...
> > To: aud...@li...
> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2
> metadata in WAV files)
> >
> > On 16 August 2013 17:06, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote:
> >>
> >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...>
> >> | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200
> >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2
> metadata in WAV files)
> >>> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere:
> just tell me!
> >>>
> >>> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the
> Metadata Edition dialog,
> >>> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look
> to the metadata before
> >>> exporting.
> >>
> >> Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should
> >> move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it
> >> needs much debate.
> >
> > That might have been a good idea before raising more contentious issues.
> >
> >>
> >> I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable
> >> metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551.
> >>
> >> Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata".
> >
> > Sorry Gale but that is totally irrelevant. We don't vote on bugs. Bugs
> > are things that happen by accident and require fixing. Votes don't
> > come into it.
> >
> >> Some people
> >> even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the
> >> most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO.
> >
> > No it's probably not, but Joel has put forward a separate patch for
> > that. We are now discussing the issue of allowing users to export
> > files without metadata.
> >
> > In case anyone missed my previous post I have raised the question of
> > disabling Metadata on the forum, which opens up the discussion to a
> > wider audience that just the devel/QA lists. However if you would also
> > like to discuss the issue on QA then I'd suggest that you start a new
> > topic there so that we don't confuse this question with other issues
> > about metadata.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that
> >> people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences.
> >> Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea
> >> that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor
> >> in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor
> >> makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that).
> >>
> >> That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead
> >> make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export)
> >> a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step.
> >> If you don't want metadata, why show the editor?
> >
> > Basing a design decision on a bug workaround is wrong and I strongly
> > oppose doing so.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only
> >>> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is
> >>> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely
> >>> more than a single export command at the end of a chain...
> >>
> >> The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no
> >> metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive.
> >>
> >> I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as
> >> long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it
> >> could be seen.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gale
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100
> >>>> From: ste...@gm...
> >>>> To: aud...@li...
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to
> ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
> >>>>
> >>>> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...>
> >>>>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200
> >>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to
> ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
> >>>>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag
> is
> >>>>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the
> >>>>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data.
> >>>>>> This is the best solution for streaming.
> >>>>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created
> a patch
> >>>>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OK thanks. I'll try both.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the
> >>>>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this
> >>>>>> dialog box. I could easily do that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit
> >>>>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no
> metadata"
> >>>>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is
> >>>>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the
> >>>>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not
> appear.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to
> >>>>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that
> >>>>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us
> >>>>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands
> >>>>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to
> >>>>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to
> add
> >>>>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the
> chain
> >>>>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for thinking about that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another
> >>>>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that
> >>>>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV
> metadata)?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible",
> >>>> Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only
> >>>>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gale
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100
> >>>>>>> From: ga...@au...
> >>>>>>> To: aud...@li...
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to
> ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...>
> >>>>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100
> >>>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to
> ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
> >>>>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create
> >>>>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround
> for
> >>>>>>>>> the problem.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice
> >>>>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more
> >>>>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and
> would solve
> >>>>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that
> would be
> >>>>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor.
> If it also
> >>>>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be
> blindingly
> >>>>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata
> is not
> >>>>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into
> multi-track
> >>>>>>>> projects if audio is imported).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing.
> >>>>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic
> iPod
> >>>>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata
> >>>>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue
> after
> >>>>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the
> >>>>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in
> >>>>>>> the context of fixing bug 551:
> >>>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 .
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in
> >>>>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor
> >>>>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I
> >>>>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files.
> >>>>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so
> >>>>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gale
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the
> optional chunks
> >>>>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end
> >>>>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom
> >>>>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk.
> >>>>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch
> version
> >>>>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Gale
> >>
> >>
> >>
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