Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)

[Joel B. <bo...@ho...>]

Hello Gale, Hello Steve,

I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me!

As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before exporting. I seldom click on the "Option" button to get access to the format settings. For me, the default settings are ok: i always use FLAC or PCM format, at 16 bits (I cannot hear any difference between audio tracks at 16 bits or 24 bits!).

Now, other users have probably other habitudes. Could the question be posted on the User forum?

For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely more than a single export command at the end of a chain...
But i can add this option to every ExportXXX dialog box if you prefer... just tell me!

Best regards,

Joel

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100
> From: ste...@gm...
> To: aud...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
>
> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote:
>>
>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...>
>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200
>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is
>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the
>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data.
>>> This is the best solution for streaming.
>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch
>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file).
>>>
>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting.
>>
>> OK thanks. I'll try both.
>>
>>
>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the
>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this
>>> dialog box. I could easily do that.
>>
>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit
>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference.
>>
>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata"
>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is
>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the
>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear.
>>
>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to
>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that
>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not.
>>
>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us
>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic).
>>
>>
>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands
>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to
>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add
>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain
>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that.
>>
>> Thanks for thinking about that.
>>
>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another
>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that
>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)?
>>
>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case.
>
> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible",
> Steve
>
>>
>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only
>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive?
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100
>>>> From: ga...@au...
>>>> To: aud...@li...
>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...>
>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100
>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create
>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for
>>>>>> the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice
>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more
>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve
>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be
>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also
>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly
>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not
>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track
>>>>> projects if audio is imported).
>>>>
>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing.
>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO.
>>>>
>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod
>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata
>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after
>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the
>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in
>>>> the context of fixing bug 551:
>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 .
>>>>
>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in
>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor
>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that).
>>>>
>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I
>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files.
>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so
>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks
>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end
>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom
>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk.
>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version
>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gale
>>
>>
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