Re: [Audacity-manual] language translations

[Gale A. <ga...@au...>]

| From Peter Sampson <pet...@ya...> 
| Wed, 15 May 2013 08:56:48 -0700 (PDT)
| Subject: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> Oops, I meant to say:
>  
> Can I go ahead and create such a [[ToDoi18n]] page and nav-bar entry?

Thanks for creating:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ToDo-2i18n .

I'm not really sure what type of issue you envisage as an i18n Px,
but I've no objection if you can clarify on:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ToDo18n

what issues are covered. 

Also you may want to mention the new i8n ToDo pages on:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ToDo

as that page currently says that we ignore translation issues.  




Gale 

 ________________________________
>  From: Peter Sampson <pet...@ya...>
> To: Gale Andrews <ga...@au...>; For discussion of Audacity Manual <aud...@li...>; For discussion of Audacity Manual <aud...@li...> 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-manual] language translations
>   
> 
> Peter wrote:
> > And does that mean we need a P1 and Px version of this new
> > page.
>  
> Gale wrote:
> >Not now. At present I think this is just a way to track localisation 
> >of images. 
>  
>  
> I implemented a [[ToDo-2i18n]] page and added a link in the sidebar,
> as you suggested, as a precursor to tagging the translated pages
> with non-localized images.
>  
> I also took the opportunity to flush over to [[ToDo-2i18n]] a couple of
> outstanding P2s that we, as English editors, are unlikely to look at, so
> they just impede our view of the P2 terrain.
>  
> I agree wholeheartedly that we should *not* introduce a P1  [[ToDo-2i18n]]
> after all, a P1 is a P1 and *must* be fixed prior to any release so we need 
> a clear view of all of those.
>  
> But I would suggest that we could benefit greatly as English editors if we 
> created a Px [[ToDoi18n]] 
>  
> That would give us a clearer view of outstanding Pxs of relevance to us
> without having to skim over the numerous links to Pxs on translated
> pages.
>  
> Can I go ahead and create such a [[ToDo-2i18n]] page and nav-bar entry?
>  
> Thanks,
> Peter.
>  
> 
> Peter Sampson
> Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780
> Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Gale Andrews <ga...@au...>
> To: For discussion of Audacity Manual <aud...@li...> 
> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-manual] language translations
>   
> 
> 
> | From Peter Sampson <pet...@ya...> 
> | Fri, 10 May 2013 08:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
> | Subject: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> > Gale I can see the sense of a separate P2 for such images
> > but for the life of me I can't figure out the 2i18n nomenclature 
> > what am I missing???
> 
> Same logic as http://audacity.sourceforge.net/help/faq_i18n?
> 
> See also http://tinyurl.com/d8nc49q.
> 
>  
> > Should we be using this new P2 page for all P2s on translated
> > pages?  I would certainly find that useful as then I would only
> > be looking at English Ps when I search.
> 
> Yes, that was the point of my suggestion. 
> 
>  
> > And does that mean we need a P1 and Px version of this new
> > page.
> 
> Not now. At present I think this is just a way to track localisation 
> of images. 
> 
> When the Spanish Manual is made available in whatever method we 
> choose, and if Richard is going to maintain it, then in one sense,
> any change anywhere in the Manual becomes a P1 in the Spanish
> Manual to translate that change. 
> 
> But Richard may not be able to continue to translate it, or other 
> languages that get completed may not have ongoing maintenance
> after completion. It's not clear at all how this will work out, and if
> we move to the Translate extension, that has its own methods
> of displaying translation completion.  
> 
>  
> > And a question:  how would one navigate to such pages?
> > From the "Help Translating" page with links?
> 
> I suggest adding a separate sidebar link in "For Editors" with link 
> text "i18n P2".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gale 
> 
> 
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Gale Andrews <ga...@au...>
> > To: For discussion of Audacity Manual <aud...@li...> 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > | From Peter Sampson <pet...@ya...> 
> > | Thu, 9 May 2013 02:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
> > | Subject: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> > > Would it help if as an initial step we placed a P2 for each image
> > > on translated pages that do not have localized images?
> > >  
> > > This would enable us to maintain focus and would provide a visual
> > > cue as a prompt when the translators visit those pages.
> > 
> > OK, but can I suggest a separate: 
> > http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ToDo-2i18n
> > 
> > otherwise the expansion of ToDo-2's may make it hard to find 
> > the links that mainly concern us on: 
> > http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/ToDo-2.
> > 
> > Richard von Molkte tells me he is getting close to finishing the 
> > Spanish Manual translation, so I will speak to him about images 
> > and I suggest you don't add P2 i18n's for Spanish pages at the 
> > moment. 
> > 
> > If and when the Spanish translation is finished we need to 
> > decide how users will access it. 
> > 
> > * I don't think we will install any localised Manuals because of
> >    the download size.  
> > 
> > * I assume we can post an online Spanish version within:
> >   http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/
> > 
> >    and that with code changes in Audacity, if the user chooses
> >    Spanish locale in the Audacity Interface preferences, with
> >    "From Internet" enabled, they would go to the above link.
> > 
> > * A zipped version of the above Spanish Manual could be made 
> >    available which user would access if they chose the "Local"
> >    Manual from Interface preferences using any locale. 
> > 
> > * Choosing "From Internet", user could just go to 
> >   http://manual.audacityteam.org/
> > 
> >    and pick the Spanish flag instead, which already happens now. 
> > 
> >    This isn't ideal given that is the alpha Manual. If Richard was still
> >    maintaining the translation as we hoped, it could be in state 
> >    of flux with work in progress pages and pages for unreleased
> >    features, just as for English pages. 
> > 
> > Buanzo has installed a separate version of the Manual at:
> > http://ttmanual.audacityteam.org/
> > 
> > that uses http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate.
> > 
> > This appears to be much the best way to go (with some work,
> > it should mean that translations will have their own namespace
> > and you can use the Sidebar links and stay in your own language). 
> > 
> > However a lot of configuration work seems to be needed before 
> > the above could be achieved and this could go live. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Gale 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >  
> > > Peter.
> > > 
> > > Peter Sampson
> > > Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780
> > > Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299
> > >  
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: Gale Andrews <ga...@au...>
> > > To: For discussion of Audacity Manual <aud...@li...> 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 7:36 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > | From "Ed Musgrove" <edg...@wa...> 
> > > | Wed, 8 May 2013 10:02:57 -0700
> > > | Subject: [Audacity-manual] language translations
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Gale Andrews 
> > > > > 
> > > > > | From "Ed Musgrove" 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 2) Replace all the current images on translated pages with translated
> > > > > > images (I looked at a bunch of these pages and from what I can see all
> > > > > > of the images are in English).
> > > > > 
> > > > > This one would be much more useful. The translators are supposed to do
> > > > this, but I don't
> > > > > sense they see the need at present.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Are you offering to do this, Ed?
> > > > [   --Ed   ] Maybe a few of the more active translators could be brought
> > > > into this discussion. If the work is truly unnecessary it might not be worth
> > > > a haphazard and incomplete job.
> > > 
> > > The Manual page for translators (that I wrote):
> > > http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Help:Translating#Keep_the_Audacity_software_up-to-date
> > > 
> > > requests localised images "if possible". Probably it ought to 
> > > be mandatory, but until the Manual in a given language is 
> > > completed, it is not pressing. 
> > > 
> > > Would we find the Manual easy to use if the images were of 
> > > Audacity running in Japanese?    
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > It would be a lot of work and a nightmare to maintain; 
> > > 
> > > Unless scripted. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > still, I think it is "the right thing to do". I am not sure if there is any 
> > > > systematic way of going through all the translated pages (of a given 
> > > > language).
> > > 
> > > Because the translations are not in their own namespace, 
> > > you really have to go through the list of pages and look 
> > > for the translation suffix:  
> > > http://manual.audacityteam.org/m/index.php?title=Special:AllPages&from=AAC_Export_Option.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > will it matter if I only get bits and pieces done here and there? 
> > > 
> > > Every little helps I think - it is less for translators to do. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Gale