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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-09-03 04:29:25
|
Having just dropped the wiki and rolonic commands, I did a search on usage for isWiki and found an error message saying that the wiki view does not support past time. So before I drop too much code on the cutting room floor, I'd best see to this. Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-09-03 01:11:30
|
Having both a wiki and rolonic view has become somewhat redundent, since the implementation of the view command. Nearly all the information is now accessible via the wiki view. As a first step in dropping the rolonic view, I've eliminated the check of the view by the setCEnt, setDEnt, setLEnt and setDU commands, and updated the documentation. Next I need to add the DU name to the wiki display (when the Descriptors feature is enabled) and then we can drop the support for multiple views and simplify the clients. Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-09-02 12:08:24
|
There is still some GUI work left. For example, the wiki view does not display the DU even when the Descriptors feature is turned on. Once this is done, it would be good to just drop the rolonic view--it no longer adds value and this would be a nice simplification for the client code. One thing that is really nice right now about the swing client is the back button. I really want to add this to the servlet. That then should bring us up to 3.4. After that it is applications, applications applications. :-) Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-09-02 10:01:31
|
http://agilewiki.org/aw3/AwServlet?cmd=rid%208dfe7005e3905bb867174da3c329877c I've put some effort in the user guide (above). Hopefully some of it will prove useful. Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Hanif B. <c_p...@ya...> - 2006-09-02 05:37:56
|
Recently I have not received any e-mail from the mailing list. This is a test to see if it's still working! -H --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-31 20:50:05
|
Gordan, Always good to hear from you. I'm about to release that 3.3.2.0. Just too tired last night. But a bit fresher now at 2AM. Yesterday was quite difficult, what with the database going bad everytime you tried to access the user documentation! Glad I caught that one finally. I think, as it stands, that AW is now largely done. Time to reorganize the documentation, then on to work on sample applications. One thing I'd like to do at some point is build an AI tool on top of all this--do semantic reasoning. Shouldn't be too hard. But not for a while, me thinks. Before that we need to add email support. And other things. So is it making good sense to you? I still think it would be helpful to have some simple graphs of the Rolon class inheritance structure. Often the simple things are the most helpful. Bill gordan <nor...@bl...> wrote: Hi Bill, hey take care with coffe. I was starting agilewiki3.3.1.1 and awcommon.jar and awserver.jar is working ok. I was creating war file from awservlet folder to dist folder and deploy it on sun server on localhost, and its working couple of times with couple restarting. I was updating all revision up to r745 (tags/3.3.2.0 from 31.08.2006). -- Posted by gordan to The AgileWiki Blog at 8/31/2006 11:44:00 PM --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-31 12:16:36
|
Every time the user guide was access, the database got corrupted. Fun one to debug. An infinate loop. Fixed it by restricting the resolution of names when accessing an infobase to exclude the use of includes. Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-31 05:15:31
|
Looks like there are problems when accessing some of the content, which causes a crash, which corrupts the database... I can reproduce this on my home machine, so I can degrade the code, hopefully, and then see what's wrong. Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-31 02:05:35
|
I cut the cache sizes in half and was able then to do a rebuild. Here's the parameter file I used: maxNamesCache=100 maxTopicsCache=500 maxPathnameCache=500 maxTableCache=500 maxBlockCache=500 Of course, there are still the additional parameters I use for running behind a firewall: rmiName=//agilewiki.org:1099/Ark serverPort=1098 Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-31 00:13:04
|
Devang,
looks like you've made good progress. I'll answer in-line where I can.
I'm also posting this to the discussion list, as it may be helpful for others. Hope that's OK!
Bill
devang desai <dev...@ya...> wrote:
Hi,
I've been reading on Rolonics and going through
AgileWiki. Whatever i've understood out of it i've
tried to gather stuff from the blogs and is as
follows:
Rolons are user objects - So user keeps on providing
the Data
A Rolon may have a few name/value pairs and perhaps an
attached document (like a blob of data)
Rolons are also first-class objects, visible to the user.
Every Rolon has state(ledger), history(journal),
behavior(descriptors) and relationships(classifiers).
Rolons can make into bigger Rolons.
Rolonic theory is based on two dualisms,
wholeness/partness and structure/stream.
It is more of a quadism. But focusing on the 2 dualisms is a start. For an example of a quadism, think of quarks--strangeness, spin, charge and color.
Every rolon has four aspects:
1) wholness,
2) partness,
3) state and
4) history.
Each rolon can have a document (multi-line ascii
text), and entries (name/value pairs)
A rolon can have children (rolons).
A rolon can have parents (rolons).
A rolon can have ledger sections (rolons).
A rolon can have a descriptor unit (rolon) which
defines its type and defines common behavior.
A rolon can have journal sections (rolons) which
describe every change that has been made to that
rolon.
And a rolon can have classifiers (rolons)--which define relationships
Descriptors on the rolon identify the mime type
And other behavior parameters
So far i've got all the 6 subprojects out of 7
configured(the one which i haven't been able to is
AwServlet as i don't have JDK1.4.2...i will get it
soon but why would we be specific to one version for a
particular subproject and not for others) on
NetBeans5.5. I've got SubVersion and TortoiseSVN
installed but i haven't tried to access the CVS Root
repository as of yet....but it should work as
mentioned in the help document. I have downloaded the
latest code for AgileWiki from sourceforge.net
you can use jdk1.5 with the servlet, but that is not recommended for development because in 1.4 mode, 1.5 still allows additional library references.
The reason for this is that most production shops running Jakarta are still using 1.4.
A few Queries :
How about maintaining uniqueness among the
Rolons.....or Could there be duplicate Rolons
existing...or rather they should not be allowed...?
What different types of relationships could exist
between Rolons..?
Each rolon has a rid, a 128-bit random number. As for names, some checks are made to be sure, for example that two children are not named the same. But these checks are not exaustive. In fact, non-unique names (globally) are allowed. However within a rolon's namespace, the first rolon encountered with a given name is used to resolve that name.
A Rolon could get more complex in nature w.r.t the
types of changes and mutiple number
of changes it goes through how do we track those(with
the help of the Journal..?) yes
e.g Can a parent Rolon have a Journal of a child
Rolon(to a certain extent, as everything a child might
be is inherited from the Parent).
generally, each rolon has its own journal. However a transaction which effects multiple rolons will be put in multiple journals.
E.g. we get data from a database with the help of a
key, how do we retrieve information
for a particular Rolon(is it through another Rolon or
with the help of the Journal)?
You either navigate to a rolon or access it via the rid.
How would we differentiate between the Rolons(e.g A
Parent Rolon and Child Rolon
w.r.t States)..?
In a relational database, there is no way to define
the application structures that are built across
multiple tables how would we acheive it in Rolonic
World(Is it through interweaving
multiple Rolons...).
The parent/child relationships form a non-cyclic graph. everything below a rolon in that graph is a part of it.
So when doing a delete (recursively), it only gets tricky when a rolon has multiple parents. In that case, you delete only the parent/child relationship. Otherwise you delete the child as well.
How about JDO and Hibernate..where do they fall in
comparision with what AgileWiki
would be?
Could Rolons contain multiple types of structures or
is it more or less strict to a hierarchy based..?
Classifier rolons are used to define additional relationships beyond parent/child. However, these are not wholeness/partness relationships.
Do we create an Engine which handles the Rolons coming
in and going out...?
Where would we store the Rolons...?
Rolons only exist in the infobase. They are not "in memory" objects. Rolon classes hold only the rid. However the attributes and relationships of a rolon are cached by the infobase in memory for speed.
Eventually, will it be a kind of a Wiki CMS as i can
imagine having database(Rolons) alongwith it.
As far as the AgileWiki WebPage is concerned it could
be more attractive with cool images or a direct Login
Page with some description of AgileWiki.
Already done, you'll get the pictures in the next release.
Regards,
Devang Desai
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 23:47:54
|
Sorry, no.
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Any books? Any articles? I like to learn the scientific background behind it. I'm a student, and maybe it becomes a research article!
-H
---------------------------------
From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 15:42
To: General discussion
Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures
meta patterns :-)
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Hi Bill,
I hope your stomach is healed when you read this. If not, wait and read it when it's OK! ;)
I think Rolonics is somehow like Design Patterns, isn't it? I'm reading "Effective Java Programming" from SUN in which Programming Patterns are discussed, I think Rolonics is more or less a set of patterns. Am I right?
-H
---------------------------------
From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:21
To: General discussion
Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures
Hanif,
Sometimes when I think about AW and Rolonics, I say to myself that, gee, these really are not big ideas. But the thing is, they work amazingly well.
AW is really just a programming framework, and everyone hates programming frameworks for very good reasons--they are excessively rigid, in spite of being a powerful programming technique. AW is not rigid.
Do anything software, combining a file server, wiki, email client, spreadsheet, et al, is really really really bad. AW is simply a bit rough, but maturing.
I've been through all the paradygm shifts. Initially we just wrote small snippets of code and, gosh, if they actually worked we put them in libraries. We developed a lot of libraries back in the 60s.
Then we had top-down and goto-less programming in the 70s. Suddenly we had massive applications and no reusable code.
The 80s brought oo, of course, and the dream of reusable components--its holy grail.
In the 90s, we just wrote components--COM and Java Beans--and got our resuable code, but didn't really call it a paradygm shift. We just did it.
So we're due. I think Rolonics is it. And just as oo tried so hard to achieve reusable objects but so often failed, and components were simply reusable objects from the get go, Rolonics lets us easily do things we never thought possible. In a rolonics environment, there aren't distinct applications--all the code just works together.
Hanif, really you are a bright dude to notice this.
Bill
P.S. Some stomach problems today. I was in a meeting yesterday and they served coffee. Perhaps the cup was not so clean. :-(
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote:
Bill,
Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project.
Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is!
It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!!
Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple.
I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea.
Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age!
Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault.
Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience.
regards,
-H
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Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 23:47:12
|
Thanks Hanif! Feeling a bit better. Got to the doctor yesterday.
I'll change your email addresses today.
--b
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote:
Hey man! Take care of yourself! Eating bytecodes makes you sick! Have some fun.
;)
-H
---------------------------------
From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:8
To: agi...@li...
Subject: [agilewiki-wiki] going to be down for some time
Some database corruption and the rebuild ran out of ram. Plus I'm feeling ill today.
b
---------------------------------
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Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
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http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642_______________________________________________
agilewiki-wiki mailing list
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From: Hanif Babazadeh\(CPU\) <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-30 15:58:57
|
Hey man! Take care of yourself! Eating bytecodes makes you sick! Have some fun. ;) -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:8 To: agi...@li... Subject: [agilewiki-wiki] going to be down for some time Some database corruption and the rebuild ran out of ram. Plus I'm feeling ill today. b _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW |
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From: Hanif Babazadeh\(CPU\) <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-30 15:58:37
|
Any books? Any articles? I like to learn the scientific background behind it. I'm a student, and maybe it becomes a research article! -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 15:42 To: General discussion Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures meta patterns :-) "Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Hi Bill, I hope your stomach is healed when you read this. If not, wait and read it when it's OK! ;) I think Rolonics is somehow like Design Patterns, isn't it? I'm reading "Effective Java Programming" from SUN in which Programming Patterns are discussed, I think Rolonics is more or less a set of patterns. Am I right? -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:21 To: General discussion Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures Hanif, Sometimes when I think about AW and Rolonics, I say to myself that, gee, these really are not big ideas. But the thing is, they work amazingly well. AW is really just a programming framework, and everyone hates programming frameworks for very good reasons--they are excessively rigid, in spite of being a powerful programming technique. AW is not rigid. Do anything software, combining a file server, wiki, email client, spreadsheet, et al, is really really really bad. AW is simply a bit rough, but maturing. I've been through all the paradygm shifts. Initially we just wrote small snippets of code and, gosh, if they actually worked we put them in libraries. We developed a lot of libraries back in the 60s. Then we had top-down and goto-less programming in the 70s. Suddenly we had massive applications and no reusable code. The 80s brought oo, of course, and the dream of reusable components--its holy grail. In the 90s, we just wrote components--COM and Java Beans--and got our resuable code, but didn't really call it a paradygm shift. We just did it. So we're due. I think Rolonics is it. And just as oo tried so hard to achieve reusable objects but so often failed, and components were simply reusable objects from the get go, Rolonics lets us easily do things we never thought possible. In a rolonics environment, there aren't distinct applications--all the code just works together. Hanif, really you are a bright dude to notice this. Bill P.S. Some stomach problems today. I was in a meeting yesterday and they served coffee. Perhaps the cup was not so clean. :-( "Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Bill, Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project. Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is! It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!! Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple. I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea. Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age! Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault. Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience. regards, -H _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642____ ___________________________________________ agilewiki-wiki mailing list agi...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agilewiki-wiki _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW |
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 11:12:28
|
meta patterns :-)
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Hi Bill,
I hope your stomach is healed when you read this. If not, wait and read it when it's OK! ;)
I think Rolonics is somehow like Design Patterns, isn't it? I'm reading "Effective Java Programming" from SUN in which Programming Patterns are discussed, I think Rolonics is more or less a set of patterns. Am I right?
-H
---------------------------------
From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:21
To: General discussion
Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures
Hanif,
Sometimes when I think about AW and Rolonics, I say to myself that, gee, these really are not big ideas. But the thing is, they work amazingly well.
AW is really just a programming framework, and everyone hates programming frameworks for very good reasons--they are excessively rigid, in spite of being a powerful programming technique. AW is not rigid.
Do anything software, combining a file server, wiki, email client, spreadsheet, et al, is really really really bad. AW is simply a bit rough, but maturing.
I've been through all the paradygm shifts. Initially we just wrote small snippets of code and, gosh, if they actually worked we put them in libraries. We developed a lot of libraries back in the 60s.
Then we had top-down and goto-less programming in the 70s. Suddenly we had massive applications and no reusable code.
The 80s brought oo, of course, and the dream of reusable components--its holy grail.
In the 90s, we just wrote components--COM and Java Beans--and got our resuable code, but didn't really call it a paradygm shift. We just did it.
So we're due. I think Rolonics is it. And just as oo tried so hard to achieve reusable objects but so often failed, and components were simply reusable objects from the get go, Rolonics lets us easily do things we never thought possible. In a rolonics environment, there aren't distinct applications--all the code just works together.
Hanif, really you are a bright dude to notice this.
Bill
P.S. Some stomach problems today. I was in a meeting yesterday and they served coffee. Perhaps the cup was not so clean. :-(
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote:
Bill,
Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project.
Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is!
It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!!
Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple.
I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea.
Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age!
Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault.
Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience.
regards,
-H
---------------------------------
Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642_______________________________________________
agilewiki-wiki mailing list
agi...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agilewiki-wiki
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 05:37:49
|
Some database corruption and the rebuild ran out of ram. Plus I'm feeling ill today. b --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
|
From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 05:28:19
|
Exception during request procesing: java.lang.NullPointerException null
java.lang.NullPointerException
at org.agilewiki.framework.Session.evaluate(Session.java:345)
at org.agilewiki.framework.Session.process(Session.java:515)
at org.agilewiki.framework.Portal.processClientRequest(Portal.java:117)
at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor1.invoke(Unknown Source)
at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:25)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:585)
at sun.rmi.server.UnicastServerRef.dispatch(UnicastServerRef.java:294)
at sun.rmi.transport.Transport$1.run(Transport.java:153)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at sun.rmi.transport.Transport.serviceCall(Transport.java:149)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPTransport.handleMessages(TCPTransport.java:460)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPTransport$ConnectionHandler.run(TCPTransport.java:701)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595)
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From: Hanif Babazadeh\(CPU\) <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-30 04:39:19
|
Hi Bill, I hope your stomach is healed when you read this. If not, wait and read it when it's OK! ;) I think Rolonics is somehow like Design Patterns, isn't it? I'm reading "Effective Java Programming" from SUN in which Programming Patterns are discussed, I think Rolonics is more or less a set of patterns. Am I right? -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:21 To: General discussion Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures Hanif, Sometimes when I think about AW and Rolonics, I say to myself that, gee, these really are not big ideas. But the thing is, they work amazingly well. AW is really just a programming framework, and everyone hates programming frameworks for very good reasons--they are excessively rigid, in spite of being a powerful programming technique. AW is not rigid. Do anything software, combining a file server, wiki, email client, spreadsheet, et al, is really really really bad. AW is simply a bit rough, but maturing. I've been through all the paradygm shifts. Initially we just wrote small snippets of code and, gosh, if they actually worked we put them in libraries. We developed a lot of libraries back in the 60s. Then we had top-down and goto-less programming in the 70s. Suddenly we had massive applications and no reusable code. The 80s brought oo, of course, and the dream of reusable components--its holy grail. In the 90s, we just wrote components--COM and Java Beans--and got our resuable code, but didn't really call it a paradygm shift. We just did it. So we're due. I think Rolonics is it. And just as oo tried so hard to achieve reusable objects but so often failed, and components were simply reusable objects from the get go, Rolonics lets us easily do things we never thought possible. In a rolonics environment, there aren't distinct applications--all the code just works together. Hanif, really you are a bright dude to notice this. Bill P.S. Some stomach problems today. I was in a meeting yesterday and they served coffee. Perhaps the cup was not so clean. :-( "Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Bill, Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project. Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is! It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!! Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple. I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea. Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age! Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault. Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience. regards, -H _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW |
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-30 00:51:22
|
Hanif,
Sometimes when I think about AW and Rolonics, I say to myself that, gee, these really are not big ideas. But the thing is, they work amazingly well.
AW is really just a programming framework, and everyone hates programming frameworks for very good reasons--they are excessively rigid, in spite of being a powerful programming technique. AW is not rigid.
Do anything software, combining a file server, wiki, email client, spreadsheet, et al, is really really really bad. AW is simply a bit rough, but maturing.
I've been through all the paradygm shifts. Initially we just wrote small snippets of code and, gosh, if they actually worked we put them in libraries. We developed a lot of libraries back in the 60s.
Then we had top-down and goto-less programming in the 70s. Suddenly we had massive applications and no reusable code.
The 80s brought oo, of course, and the dream of reusable components--its holy grail.
In the 90s, we just wrote components--COM and Java Beans--and got our resuable code, but didn't really call it a paradygm shift. We just did it.
So we're due. I think Rolonics is it. And just as oo tried so hard to achieve reusable objects but so often failed, and components were simply reusable objects from the get go, Rolonics lets us easily do things we never thought possible. In a rolonics environment, there aren't distinct applications--all the code just works together.
Hanif, really you are a bright dude to notice this.
Bill
P.S. Some stomach problems today. I was in a meeting yesterday and they served coffee. Perhaps the cup was not so clean. :-(
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote:
Bill,
Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project.
Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is!
It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!!
Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple.
I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea.
Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age!
Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault.
Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience.
regards,
-H
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From: Hanif Babazadeh\(CPU\) <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-29 16:48:13
|
Bill, Therefore I guess I should learn more about the project. Maybe AW is not a simple virtual Wiki. Then, we should find an UNDERSTANDABLE way to introduce what it is! It is a mail server, it is an infobase, it is an application server, it is a learning project, and most importantly, it still tends to remain a WiKi!!! Maybe it is a complicated project. Maybe it is simple. I don't know. Just let me consume some time to understand it and then, I'll write my understanding about the whole idea. Maybe if it was a commerical product, we couldn't even sell a single license of it. Maybe it is just another revolution in the 21st century, information technology age! Personally, I think I have not consumed enough time to know what it is. I'm sorry, it's my fault. Just gimme some time, and I'll write back. I don't promise very soon, but I promise that I'll write my experience. regards, -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill La Forge Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:18 To: General discussion Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures Hanif, I love to toss out code! But the swing interface is important. Sometimes you want to run applications locally. Sometimes the data is very private. And laptops are not always connected. Remember that this is a general knowledge repository, not just a wiki. Previously it was (and will again be) an email client. Also in the past there were facilities for coordinating data (sharing) between infobases, so you could work locally and then dialup once a day and swap changes. Now I'll also note that the Swing client and Servlet client are both very very small. Everything is done in the same process as the infobase--keeps it very fast and flexible. And note also that the back end doesn't even know the kind of client it is working with. The interface is XML, which can be very magical... when done right. Bill Hanif Babazadeh(CPU) wrote: Indeed it is an advanced feature, but sometimes, we -developers- consume 80% of our precious time on a feature that's hardly used in 20% of times. A Wiki is an online thing. This question always pops in my mind that why a customer should need to run a local Wiki? ANd even if someone does, do we need to complicate all the interface and design to fulfill that rare use? Please don't make me wring. I'm just asking what I don't know. I mean "is that swing interface important?" thanks, H |
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-29 07:44:10
|
Gordan, it has been a while since you last wrote. Good to hear from you! And you are right--I've been putting pictures in the war file. Makes them easy to serve up. Not so good for folk who are running their own web server and don't need those pictures. :-( Mostly I think of the war file as dedicated to agilewiki.org and folk developing their own sites will want to customize the web content of the war file. :-) Glad you like the new look. I figured it is necessary to demonstrate the features of this wiki. There is a real advantage to an html-based wiki, and I think we are able to avoid (if we choose) the worst aspects of using html by using the {+TopicName} notation to dynamically compose large html documents rather than trying to maintain large chunks of monolithic and highly nested html documents. Now I've cleared most of the access controls in the ark itself so you can see how I composed those displays. One example to look at is the AwTeam topic. Edit that topic to see how it works, then make sure you turn on the Ledgers feature with the view command and look at/edit the LSecs under the AwTeam topic. And thanks for commenting on my blog! :-) Bill gordan <nor...@bl...> wrote: Looking clearly and funkcionly, and have nice pic. Its different against older version. Better looking. Now, its looking that in AwServlet file AwServlet.war file are stored all data with pic, which was publish on http://agilewiki.org. -- Posted by gordan to The AgileWiki Blog at 8/29/2006 12:18:33 PM --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
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From: Bill La F. <Wil...@Su...> - 2006-08-29 04:52:51
|
Hanif, I love to toss out code! But the swing interface is important. Sometimes you want to run applications locally. Sometimes the data is very private. And laptops are not always connected. Remember that this is a general knowledge repository, not just a wiki. Previously it was (and will again be) an email client. Also in the past there were facilities for coordinating data (sharing) between infobases, so you could work locally and then dialup once a day and swap changes. Now I'll also note that the Swing client and Servlet client are both very very small. Everything is done in the same process as the infobase--keeps it very fast and flexible. And note also that the back end doesn't even know the kind of client it is working with. The interface is XML, which can be very magical... when done right. Bill Hanif Babazadeh(CPU) wrote: > Indeed it is an advanced feature, but sometimes, we -developers- > consume 80% of our precious time on a feature that's hardly used in > 20% of times. > A Wiki is an online thing. This question always pops in my mind that > why a customer should need to run a local Wiki? ANd even if someone > does, do we need to complicate all the interface and design to fulfill > that rare use? > Please don't make me wring. I'm just asking what I don't know. I mean > "is that swing interface important?" > > thanks, > H |
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From: Hanif Babazadeh\(CPU\) <han...@gm...> - 2006-08-29 04:13:31
|
Indeed it is an advanced feature, but sometimes, we -developers- consume 80% of our precious time on a feature that's hardly used in 20% of times. A Wiki is an online thing. This question always pops in my mind that why a customer should need to run a local Wiki? ANd even if someone does, do we need to complicate all the interface and design to fulfill that rare use? Please don't make me wring. I'm just asking what I don't know. I mean "is that swing interface important?" thanks, H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:18 To: General discussion Subject: Re: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures Hanif, I have thought of that but some users may want to run locally without a web server. Also, I've been thinking that it will be a lot easier to write code for working with the local files with a swing client. Now what we can do is use more AwServer-generated html. This simplifies the clients. Another simplification will be to eliminate the rolonic interface. The wiki interface covers 99% of the functionality at this point. (The rolonic and wiki interfaces are supported by both clients currently.) Thanks for asking. Bill "Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote: Thanks, by the way, why AW supports both Swing and web based interface? It will be far easier for users and develpers to focus on one kind of interface (Web is better of course). Can't we change the Web interface to cover all the jobs that we can do by Swing interface? -H _____ From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 14:20 To: agi...@li... Subject: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures Hmm. Not to overdo it or anything, but I'll note that since AW supports html, we could also include pictures in AW, not just on the home page. But perhaps smaller ones? On the other hand, Hanif, you perhaps should be focusing on studies for now, not on digging out your butterfly collection! :-) Bill _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642____ ___________________________________________ agilewiki-wiki mailing list agi...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/agilewiki-wiki _____ Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/messengertagline/*http://in.messenger.yahoo. com> it NOW |
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-29 02:47:04
|
I've finally spent some time cleaning up the content (the top several levels, anyway) and added pictures. Not all my idea, and that's a good thing. (I'm not visually oriented.) Got up at 3AM and reworked a bunch of things. You'll like it! http://agilewiki.org/ Bill --------------------------------- Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW |
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From: Bill la F. <laf...@ya...> - 2006-08-28 21:48:04
|
Hanif,
I have thought of that but some users may want to run locally without a web server.
Also, I've been thinking that it will be a lot easier to write code for working with the local files with a swing client.
Now what we can do is use more AwServer-generated html. This simplifies the clients.
Another simplification will be to eliminate the rolonic interface. The wiki interface covers 99% of the functionality at this point. (The rolonic and wiki interfaces are supported by both clients currently.)
Thanks for asking.
Bill
"Hanif Babazadeh(CPU)" <han...@gm...> wrote:
Thanks,
by the way, why AW supports both Swing and web based interface?
It will be far easier for users and develpers to focus on one kind of interface (Web is better of course).
Can't we change the Web interface to cover all the jobs that we can do by Swing interface?
-H
---------------------------------
From: agi...@li... [mailto:agi...@li...] On Behalf Of Bill la Forge
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 14:20
To: agi...@li...
Subject: [agilewiki-wiki] room for more pictures
Hmm. Not to overdo it or anything, but I'll note that since AW supports html, we could also include pictures in AW, not just on the home page. But perhaps smaller ones?
On the other hand, Hanif, you perhaps should be focusing on studies for now, not on digging out your butterfly collection! :-)
Bill
---------------------------------
Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642_______________________________________________
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