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Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap
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From: Stins, D. <DRStins@Zion-IT.com> - 2004-09-20 21:17:25
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Steve, When mysql releases with stored procedures and triggers are commonly used, then it will be a piece of a cake to convince some one that this will improve the data integrity dramatically. And that's all accountants wants: reliable data. For now, I think it will be a great improvement when we isolate the business rules in classes when we do maintenance at scripts or when we develop new scripts for new functionality. Like you mentioned: improve things slowly, so web-erp will improve instead of be unstable. with best regards, Dick Stins ----- Original Message ----- From: "skaill" <sk...@ro...> To: <web...@li...> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 10:54 PM Subject: Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap > In theory 3-tier is a great idea, however it has some drawbacks too. I > don't know of a system anywhere as near as complete as webERP that has true > 3-tier separation. An accounting system in particular is critical to a > business. It must be very, very reliable. For this reason, typically you > will see less than state of the art at banks and government for instance. > Someone's neck would be on the line if things got out of control and they > can very easily. > > There are some other important reasons for carefully considering the > approach. Many who will put their attention toward webERP will be > accountants who may not be computer experts like us. Going too extreme can > alienate them from contributing even though they are the ones who more > likely understand the full extent of deeper accounting problems. > > What I'm saying here is I think it's a fine line and a line that, in the > interest of keeping the product stable, bringing more people on board and > keeping people onboard, needs to be moved slowly. > > Side note: While I do believe in isolating the business rules, I do not > believe planting business rules in the triggers of a database or in stored > procedures is beneficial, I would keep them in code. Triggers and stored > procedures lead to bits and pieces everywhere. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stins, Dick" <DRStins@Zion-IT.com> > To: <web...@li...> > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap > > > > Yes, any technical database layer is not that interesting, although it's > > always handy when it is not too much work to move to another database > > engine, but I see no need to change from mysql to another database engine > at > > the moment. Solution like pear:db seems only to slow things down and hide > > the real code and creates more trouble when in pear:DB (or any other > > wrapper) are some bugs. > > > > When I talk about a database layer, it's functional. Like you have a > > function to delete a customer. > > This functions checks all business constraints before deleting: > > - are there any transaction related? > > - are there any open orders? > > - are there any companies related to this customer? > > - is it an active customer? > > - is it bankrupt? > > - ... > > > > When one or more checks fail, then the function returns an understandable > > error and refuses to continue. > > > > When you have this function, then you are able to call it from any script, > > like a delete script, or a batch script which deletes lot's of customers, > or > > a webservices which tries to process delete the customer. > > > > The same for a create customer function. When all attributes (credit > check, > > address, chamber of commerce number, tax number, telephone number, > > bankaccount number, ...) of the customer are properly set, then the status > > of this customer will be valid. > > > > When you have one set of functions/methods to set all these items, then > you > > again can reuse this code (CLASS METHODS) of lot's of places. > > > > When you have a problem with creation of customers, then you know you > where > > to find the one and only place where it was coded: in the data layer > > (customer class). > > > > Where all rules are coded is not that important. You can use php classes, > > php functions, sql, database triggers, stored procedures or foreign keys, > > column constraints, table constraints, ... > > Just collect everything for manipulating customers and put them in the > same > > place where you can call it from everywhere, so you need not to code it > > twice and test it twice and debug it twice or more. > > > > Use this principle for every object (table or combination of tables or > ..). > > Every developer would know where to look when there is a problem with the > > process creating or deleting or updating a customer. > > > > When someone still would like to port the software package to another > > database system, then he has only to port the database layer and is not > > disturbed by the presentation layer and ... > > > > Resume: the above principle/architecture is based at two ideas: > > 1. you always knows where to find object (table) related functions, so you > > are not attracted to code same functions again and again but just calls > them > > again > > 2. you only code once the business rules and are able to reuse them > several > > times by calling them from several php scripts, batch scripts, > webservices, > > .... > > > > With best regards, > > > > Dick Stins > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daintrees" <p.d...@pa...> > > To: <web...@li...> > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 9:24 AM > > Subject: Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap > > > > > > > You'll have to excuse my naievety (and poor spelling) since most of the > > > native functions are similar in function but different in name for > > differing > > > DBs why does one need such a lavish abstraction layer why won't a > > > ConnectDB.inc calling the native C calls to connect directly for other > DBs > > > do the trick? This way we have ultimate performance minimum overhead! > > > > > > I really don't understand why such lengths are necessary - the function > > > calls are virtually one to one and even most of the parameters are the > > same. > > > > > > MS SQL Server > > > > > > mssql_connect > > > mssql_fetch_array > > > mssql_fetch_row > > > mssql_data_seek > > > > > > > > > MySql > > > > > > mysql_connect > > > mysql_query > > > mysql_fetch_array > > > mysql_fetch_row > > > mysql_data_seek > > > > > > Postgres > > > > > > pg_connect > > > pg_query > > > pg_fetch_array > > > pg_fetch_row > > > pg_data_seek > > > > > > > > > Firebird/interbase > > > > > > ibase_connect > > > ibase_query > > > ibase_fetch_assoc > > > ibase_fetch_row > > > > > > whoops there is no > > > ibase_data_seek > > > > > > maybe I'm answering my own question! > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jake Stride" <ns...@us...> > > > To: <web...@li...> > > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 5:58 PM > > > Subject: Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap > > > > > > > > > > Stins, Dick wrote: > > > > > > > > >Jake, > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for your comments. > > > > > > > > > >I am not a fan of pear:db. I prefer to use standard sql. That is > > already > > > a > > > > >big step for portability + the clean and mean weberp script > > > ConnectDB.inc. > > > > >So it should not be too hard to port web-erp to another db engine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No to be honest neither am I, for reasons I won't bore you with it was > > > > chosen at the start of the project and has persited through. Have you > > > > had a look at > > > > > > > > http://creole.phpdb.org/ > > > > http://propel.phpdb.org/wiki/ > > > > > > > > >Smarty might be interesting, but I am already glad when css is > optimal > > > used. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the case with EGS, it just allows all of the presentation > logic > > > > to be removed from the code base and allows people to be a lot more > > > > flexible with the layout without having to trawl through the PHP code. > > > > > > > > >Multiple company support is interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes this was one of the distinctions that was used to justify it over > > > > simply contributing to an exisitng project since non of the others do > > > > it. For this reason I am not sure if one of the Application Frameworks > > > > would have worked due to its authentication system. > > > > > > > > Have you looked at http://www.binarycloud.com/ > > > > > > > > >Does it also support ldap (nds)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not at present. My knowledge of ldap consists of the following: > > > > > > > > It exists > > > > It is adirectory server > > > > > > > > I have always thought that it would be good to have it working with > ldap > > > > but unfortunately I have not had the time to look into it. However > with > > > > the present system I believe you can use PEAR:DB to connect to ldap so > > > > may be possible. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jake > > > > > > > > >with best regards, > > > > > > > > > >Dick Stins > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: "Jake Stride" <ns...@us...> > > > > >To: <web...@li...> > > > > >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:41 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: EGS/Postgresql - Was Re: [Web-erp-developers] Cheap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Stins, Dick wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>Jake, > > > > >>> > > > > >>>I think that common functions which are needed in weberp and in > your > > > crm > > > > >>>software should be encapsulated in classes, so you do not need to > > know > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>the information is comming from (postgres or mysql). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>At the moment it kind of should be in that it uses PEAR:DB for > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >abstraction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>When you want to > > > > >>>integrate web-erp and your crm software, you still need to > integrate > > > the > > > > >>>authentication and the address books processing and .... > > > > >>>The design of these issues should be loosely connected or we should > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >create > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>one big project (wegs-erp?). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>That could be interesting and worthwhile, is it something people may > > be > > > > >>interested in? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>The same for all your code which needs views. Those should be > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >encapsulated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>in classes, so it's easy to write an alternative for mysql > > > > >>>(allthough when you are able to run mysql with maxdb, then > probably > > > you > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>use views). > > > > >>> > > > > >>>I even recommend to develop an architecture with: > > > > >>>- front end layer > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>Smarty for templating > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>- business rule layer > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>System is written as classes > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>- database trigger layer > > > > >>>- database layer > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>PEAR > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>This helps to be in control of you own code, reuse of code, > increase > > > > >>>portability for you code (like porting to other databases: sql > > server, > > > > >>>firebird, oracle). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>EGS should work in oracle without much trouble because of PEAR:DB > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>An example of an architecture like this is: > > > > >>>http://sourceforge.net/projects/seagull/ > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>I did have a look at these, the problem is that EGS authentication > is > > > > >>more complicated that this. It is written as an ASP application so > > that > > > > >>several companies can use the same server/DB etc. > > > > >> > > > > >>IE in egs one company can login and create there own users and > groups > > > > >>and insert data etc that another company cannot see. > > > > >> > > > > >>Jake > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>With best regards, > > > > >>> > > > > >>>Dick Stins > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > > > > >Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement > on > > > > >who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > > > > >Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >Web-erp-developers mailing list > > > > >Web...@li... > > > > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > > > > Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement > on > > > > who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > > > > Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Web-erp-developers mailing list > > > > Web...@li... > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > > > Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on > > > who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > > > Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Web-erp-developers mailing list > > > Web...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > > Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on > > who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > > Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > > _______________________________________________ > > Web-erp-developers mailing list > > Web...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: YOU BE THE JUDGE. Be one of 170 > Project Admins to receive an Apple iPod Mini FREE for your judgement on > who ports your project to Linux PPC the best. Sponsored by IBM. > Deadline: Sept. 24. Go here: http://sf.net/ppc_contest.php > _______________________________________________ > Web-erp-developers mailing list > Web...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/web-erp-developers |