Re: [TWiki-Dev] [SVN] r7764 - in twiki/branches/DEVELOP: data/TWiki lib/TWiki/UI

[Anton J A. <aj...@si...>]

Crawford Currie wrote:
> Kenneth Lavrsen wrote:
> 
>> When you set Set EDIT_SKIN = kupu the normal edit mode is GONE.
>>
>> This feature is not what my users want. We want the choice. And having 
>> to edit our user topic each time we want to change mode. That is not 
>> going to fly.
> 
> *sigh*. OK, let me explain.
> 
> There is strong user resistance to having two edit links on the view 
> page. Why?

Who says?
Martin said but with little context.
Kenneth disagrees based on his user, and my users disagree.
How about some other input.

>    1. It is dangerous - accidental clicks on the TML edit could alienate
>       90% of users - especially PHBs

I'm sorry, I think that's specious.
Accidental clicks ... heck if that argument holds it holds for ANYTHING.

Deleted.


>    2. "Compose" (the word) is not intention-revealing, and no-one has
>       suggested anything better

That was my line!
After it was changed from 'Wysiwyg'  to 'Compose'
Using 'Wysiwyg' is meaningful.

>    3. 90% of users are TTTSWTG (Too Thick To See What They Get) with the
>       TML editor

Its funny.  Most of the non technical users I speak to who are old 
enough to remember Word perfect say that it was better than MS Word. 
Why?  Because you could press F3/Show formatting.

Technical users don't seem to have a problem with HTML ^ TML.
Some of them  have problems with since they ALWAYS write in HTML.

Deleted


>    4. It clutters up an already over-busy page

So does any menu.  But in the top button bar there is plenty of room, 
so long as you don't shrink your window to 640x380 :-)

Deleted

> The problem is that *some* users still want/need TML, to edit TWiki 
> variables etc. But they are a minority. 

You say.  I don't, Kenneth doesn't
Can we have some other votes, please.

> The problem is to give 10% 
> access to what they want, without alienating 90%. My thinking ran as 
> follows:
> 
>    1. Most people who want to WYSIWYG want to WYSIWYG all the time.

Until they find that the WYSIWYG editor won't let them do many things 
and screws up some existing pages.

>    2. Most people who want to edit in TML, want to edit in TML all the time.
>    3. A local site can add extra commands to their local skin, if they
>       want both links available.

Assumes that (a) the users know enough to know about skins and that it 
can be done and (b) admins know enough abut customizing skins.

If the latter was true I for me I wouldn't need Arthur.

Specious and insulting and ignores reality.
Deleted.


>    4. The edit modes are switchable from the URL bar. Just append
>       ?skin=kupu or ?skin=pattern to the edit URL.

Even my technically minded users wouldn't thin of that.

>    5. The people who want to edit in TML are smart enough to be able to
>       use the URL bar to switch editor if EDIT_SKIN=kupu

CC, you can't get away with both calling users dumb and calling them 
smart.

>    6. The default skin (out of the box) should be simple as possible

Dream on!
The default skin out of the box will be the one that most admins 
install and live with without alternation.  That's the real world.
As such it should offer the options and capabilities.

Experience has told me that admins are more likely to turn OFF a 
feature that is aggravating that to turn ON one that is a better 
alternative.

Deleted

>    7. If someone wants to tailor the skin for local use, it is a lot
>       simpler for them to simply add a button, than it is to support the
>       rather convoluted code that makes the optional Compose button.

See previous note.

CC, you're the technical whiz.  Why don't we have an out of the box 
that fits _our_ needs, for the non technically minded of us, for the 
90% of admins who aren't as smart and knowledgeable about the innards 
and byways of TWiki and skins, and _YOU_ do the customization for your 
needs.



/a