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#174 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier

AMBER
closed
nobody
5
2009-06-04
2009-03-08
No

msIdentifier requires a repository if you are recording an identifier using place information. We are attempting to use msDesc for inscriptions, a very large percentage of which are in no repository at all, but may have a location (e.g. the side of a building, mountain, etc.). Since in any such case we would be forced to do <repository>NONE</repository> or some such, we propose the model for msIdentifier be changed to:

element msIdentifier
{
att.global.attributes,
(
(
(
model.placeNamePart_sequenceOptional,
institution?,
repository?,
collection?,
idno?
)
| msName
),
( altIdentifier | msName )*
)
}

Discussion

  • Lou Burnard

    Lou Burnard - 2009-03-14

    Is it not helpful, even for inscriptions, to distinguish those that have been put into some sort of repository from those which have not? (the repository element could be empty in the latter case, I suppose). The content model is meant to reflect the insistence that the thing being described is a real object in the world, in some known place.

     
  • Lou Burnard

    Lou Burnard - 2009-03-14
    • milestone: 686590 --> AMBER
     
  • Hugh A. Cayless

    Hugh A. Cayless - 2009-03-14

    It is helpful, and repository should be used when an inscription is in one, but unlike manuscripts, there are lots of inscriptions with a known place, but no repository, and many too that have been recorded, but that no longer exist (e.g. we saw it five minutes before the bulldozer came by and obliterated it). An empty <repository> doesn't seem any different to me than none at all.

     
  • James Cummings

    James Cummings - 2009-03-15

    An empty repository element does seem different to me than none-at-all. A repository element being there, but being content-less seems to say to me that there *is* a repository, but that I've just not filled in the information either because I don't know or have forgotten. No element being there suggests to me that there is nothing appropriate to be tagged as repository. Seems reasonable to remove the restriction to me.

     
  • David Sewell

    David Sewell - 2009-03-17

    LB: "The content model is meant to reflect the insistence that the thing being
    described is a real object in the world, in some known place."

    But aren't there cases where it might be appropriate to use msIdentifier to describe known features of a manuscript that is no longer in existence or whose current location is unknown?

     
  • Lou Burnard

    Lou Burnard - 2009-03-22

    In response to David's query below: no, emphatically not. The msDesc element is not intended to be used to describe things that don't exist or cannot be located.

    The problem with the proposed content model is that it would permit you to have a completely empty msIdentifier. Which feels wrong. If there was some way of saying that you must supply at least one of the placeNameparts or one of the institution-repository-collection etc. sequence, that might help, I suppose.

    Could we have an example of a specific case that really doesn't want to have a repository?

     
  • Hugh A. Cayless

    Hugh A. Cayless - 2009-03-23

    Here's one pretty famous example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/re_teacher/2428096389/ and here's another, more run-of-the-mill one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/80806812@N00/3377103819/

    Neither of these is in a repository. One is next to the Colosseum in Rome, and the other is in the middle of a cow pasture in the North of England (or it was in 2002 when the photo was taken anyway). Both exist, and have locations.

    I do agree that an empty msIdentifier would be silly, but I don't think repository is the one thing that should be required.

     
  • Nobody/Anonymous

    schematron rule to enforce requirement that msIdentifier cannot be empty

     
  • Lou Burnard

    Lou Burnard - 2009-06-04

    At rev 6477, content model has been changed as requested, but a schematron rule has been added to enforce the requirement that at least one of the locating components must be present.

     
  • Lou Burnard

    Lou Burnard - 2009-06-04
    • status: open --> closed