From: K. F. <kfr...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 14:04:25
|
Hello All - I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's that would be appropriate in this context. We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells and whistles and smoke and mirrors. Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't need to say it, I am too...) So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone learning C++? (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the choice of using it or notepad or both.) Thanks for any suggestions. K. Frank |
From: Matt P. D. <ma...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 14:30:43
|
On 11/8/2010 3:04 PM, K. Frank wrote: > Hello All - > > I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), > and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's > that would be appropriate in this context. > > We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual > studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells > and whistles and smoke and mirrors. > > Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message > that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it > seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. What I can suggest immediately is to replace Notepad with Notepad2: http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html It's characterized by a very small memory footprint (load end exits pretty much immediately, you can configure ESC to work as an exit key so that when you invoke it from a file manager you have a complete workspace). Syntax highlighting really comes in handy :) I used it with success in a C++ study group. You can also bind compilation and execution to CMD scripts (Windows batch files) for compilation (and/or "make" invocation) and execution to ALT+L ("L" as in "Launch") to speed up the dev. process. As for the IDE, MSVC is pretty good, but if you want alternatives I think those are worth consideration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeLite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code::Blocks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxDev-C%2B%2B http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_Creator First two are general, last two handy when working with wxWidgets or Qt, respectively; other that that choice is really a matter of taste (look which screenshot appeals the most to you ;]) and needs (whether you want built-in debugging, profiling frontend), see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C.2FC.2B.2B Hope that helps, Best, Matt |
From: J D. <d3...@gm...> - 2010-11-09 04:01:49
|
Since once size doesn't fit all On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Matt P. Dziubinski <ma...@gm...> wrote: > On 11/8/2010 3:04 PM, K. Frank wrote: >> Hello All - >> >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), >> and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's >> that would be appropriate in this context. >> >> We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual >> studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells >> and whistles and smoke and mirrors. >> >> Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message >> that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it >> seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. > > What I can suggest immediately is to replace Notepad with Notepad2: > http://www.flos-freeware.ch/notepad2.html notepad++ http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ Might look into cmake and associating cmakelists.txt with that? command line command syntax and protocol (like typing the name of a console program usually gives parameters and usage) will probably be a good skill. As my entirely free environment I use FAR (File archive manager) it's got a builtin editor, but you can set options and override that, but then you get the benefit of command line and semi-gui (arrow key/click support) file browser and ctrl-O (for 'other' ) shows the command line so you can see make results or program output without having to code some sort of while(1) ; to make a command line program you create stop so you can see the output. Can fill in with any choice of compilers > > It's characterized by a very small memory footprint (load end exits > pretty much immediately, you can configure ESC to work as an exit key so > that when you invoke it from a file manager you have a complete workspace). > > Syntax highlighting really comes in handy :) I used it with success in a > C++ study group. > > You can also bind compilation and execution to CMD scripts (Windows > batch files) for compilation (and/or "make" invocation) and execution to > ALT+L ("L" as in "Launch") to speed up the dev. process. > > As for the IDE, MSVC is pretty good, but if you want alternatives I > think those are worth consideration: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeLite > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code::Blocks > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxDev-C%2B%2B > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_Creator > > First two are general, last two handy when working with wxWidgets or Qt, > respectively; other that that choice is really a matter of taste (look > which screenshot appeals the most to you ;]) and needs (whether you want > built-in debugging, profiling frontend), see: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C.2FC.2B.2B > > Hope that helps, > > Best, > > Matt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper > David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a > Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your > business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > MinGW-users mailing list > Min...@li... > > This list observes the Etiquette found at > http://www.mingw.org/Mailing_Lists. > We ask that you be polite and do the same. Disregard for the list etiquette may cause your account to be moderated. > > _______________________________________________ > You may change your MinGW Account Options or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mingw-users > |
From: Peter R. <p.r...@sh...> - 2010-11-08 15:01:04
|
On 08/11/10 14:04, K. Frank wrote: > Hello All - > > I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), > and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's > that would be appropriate in this context. Depending on the age of your daughter, I was thinking a referral to the local child protection agency/social services department may be more appropriate! > We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual > studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells > and whistles and smoke and mirrors. > > Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message > that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it > seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. > > Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems > a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is > also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't > need to say it, I am too...) > > So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone > learning C++? > > (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, > making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the > choice of using it or notepad or both.) > I suspect you will find that most IDEs do pretty much the same stuff. As with most things, there is convergence. (i.e. if somebody has good idea, other people copy it.) So take your pick: CodeBlocks and CodeLite seem good. But there are others. One IDE I would suggest you avoid is Eclipse - last time I looked at it , it was painfully slow. (But it may have improved in the meantime.) P. |
From: K. F. <kfr...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 15:35:22
|
Hi Peter - On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Peter Rockett <p.r...@sh...> wrote: > On 08/11/10 14:04, K. Frank wrote: >> Hello All - >> >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), >> and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's >> that would be appropriate in this context. > Depending on the age of your daughter, I was thinking a referral to the > local child protection agency/social services department may be more > appropriate! Oh, no, that wouldn't make sense. In my county, competent knowledge of C++ is not required for the social-service certification. They would just teach her all sorts of bad habits and anti-idioms. But thanks for the suggestion. K. Frank >> ... > > P. |
From: Ben R. <Ben...@sc...> - 2010-11-09 09:56:46
|
> On 08/11/10 14:04, K. Frank wrote: >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), >> and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's >> that would be appropriate in this context. I use Notepad++ at work as a back-up to my main editors (Eclipse and Visual Studio). I would say Eclipse is too heavy weight for a beginner, too confusing and too many ways to trip up. Other options I would recommend are: CodeBlocks, a light weight open source cross platform IDE. Geany, a text editor really but knows about compilers and will compile a single source file into a program, even with multiple files open. Cheers Ben SciSys UK Limited. Registered in England and Wales No. 4373530. Registered Office: Methuen Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire SN14 0GB, UK. Before printing, please think about the environment. |
From: Montgomery, J. T. <j.t...@ab...> - 2010-11-08 15:52:20
|
I have been using Textpad for yonks, and find it really excellent. Do you remember Compuserv and TAPCIS - that's when I was pointed at it ;-) It's Windows, but you can call BAT files, assign key-presses to macros or tools, capture results, use regular expressions, block selection, etc. It has code snippets facility too, and can save in a variety formats - e.g.Unix line-endings - useful in everyday work context. It's not as (human-)memory intensive as the emacs key codes department. Check it out, see what you think. http://www.textpad.com/ (I'm not affiliate with Textpad in any way.) John Montgomery, Aberdeen, Scotland, UK. -----Original Message----- From: K. Frank [mailto:kfr...@gm...] Sent: 08 November 2010 14:04 To: MinGW Users List Subject: [Mingw-users] Semi-OT: Recommendations for student editors / IDE's Hello All - I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's that would be appropriate in this context. We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells and whistles and smoke and mirrors. Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't need to say it, I am too...) So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone learning C++? (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the choice of using it or notepad or both.) Thanks for any suggestions. K. Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev _______________________________________________ MinGW-users mailing list Min...@li... This list observes the Etiquette found at http://www.mingw.org/Mailing_Lists. We ask that you be polite and do the same. Disregard for the list etiquette may cause your account to be moderated. _______________________________________________ You may change your MinGW Account Options or unsubscribe at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mingw-users The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683. |
From: Itamar R. P. <it...@is...> - 2010-11-08 16:52:23
|
On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, K. Frank <kfr...@gm...> wrote: > Hello All - > > I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), > and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's > that would be appropriate in this context. > > We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual > studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells > and whistles and smoke and mirrors. > > Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message > that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it > seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. > > Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems > a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is > also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't > need to say it, I am too...) > > So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone > learning C++? > > (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, > making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the > choice of using it or notepad or both.) > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > K. Frank qt-creator is a good choice. you can write programs for linux, windows and nokia cellphones. -- ------------ Itamar Reis Peixoto msn, google talk: it...@is... +55 11 4063 5033 (FIXO SP) +55 34 9158 9329 (TIM) +55 34 8806 3989 (OI) +55 34 3221 8599 (FIXO MG) |
From: Peter R. <p.r...@sh...> - 2010-11-08 17:08:37
|
On 08/11/10 16:45, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, K. Frank<kfr...@gm...> wrote: >> Hello All - >> >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), >> and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's >> that would be appropriate in this context. >> >> We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual >> studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells >> and whistles and smoke and mirrors. >> >> Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message >> that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it >> seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. >> >> Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems >> a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is >> also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't >> need to say it, I am too...) >> >> So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone >> learning C++? >> >> (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, >> making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the >> choice of using it or notepad or both.) >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. >> >> >> K. Frank > > qt-creator is a good choice. > > you can write programs for linux, windows and nokia cellphones. I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's licensing terms are quite complex. P. |
From: Saeteurn S. <San...@gr...> - 2010-11-08 17:33:47
|
If you're using MinGW you can use Eclipse IDE. Eclipse works on Mac, Windows, Linux, and Android. Thankies ^^ -San Saeteurn ________________________________ San Saeteurn Software Engineer, Switching and Routing Solutions Engineering Grass Valley, Inc. Tel: (1) 530 478 3571 Fax: (1) 530 478 4020 Cell: (1) 530 370 7294 E-mail: san...@gr... Mail: Grass Valley 400 Providence Mine Road Nevada City, CA, 95959 USA -----Original Message----- From: Peter Rockett [mailto:p.r...@sh...] Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 9:09 AM To: MinGW Users List Subject: Re: [Mingw-users] Semi-OT: Recommendations for student editors / IDE's On 08/11/10 16:45, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, K. Frank<kfr...@gm...> wrote: >> Hello All - >> >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), >> and I am interested is suggestions for text editors and/or IDE's >> that would be appropriate in this context. >> >> We are using windows and mingw. I don't much care for visual >> studio -- especially for learning the basics, what with all of its bells >> and whistles and smoke and mirrors. >> >> Right now we are using notepad (which hammers home the message >> that the program source files are just plain-vanilla text files), but it >> seems an unnecessary burden to stick with notepad for the long haul. >> >> Myself, I use emacs, but emacs is an acquired taste, and it seems >> a bit sadistic to be inflicting it on the younger generation. Emacs is >> also getting a little long in the tooth these days. (Yes, yes, you don't >> need to say it, I am too...) >> >> So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone >> learning C++? >> >> (I'm thinking of teaching my daughter the ropes of a basic IDE, >> making her use it for a couple of days, and then giving her the >> choice of using it or notepad or both.) >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. >> >> >> K. Frank > > qt-creator is a good choice. > > you can write programs for linux, windows and nokia cellphones. I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's licensing terms are quite complex. P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev _______________________________________________ MinGW-users mailing list Min...@li... This list observes the Etiquette found at http://www.mingw.org/Mailing_Lists. We ask that you be polite and do the same. Disregard for the list etiquette may cause your account to be moderated. _______________________________________________ You may change your MinGW Account Options or unsubscribe at: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mingw-users |
From: Charles W. <cwi...@us...> - 2010-11-08 18:52:28
|
On 11/8/2010 12:14 PM, Saeteurn San wrote: > If you're using MinGW you can use Eclipse IDE. Eclipse works on Mac, Windows, Linux, and Android. See also wascana: it's a prepackaged download that includes eclipse, mingw, and all the goodies, all configured for out-of-the-box use. Unfortunately, due to the shambles that mingw.org distribution was in for so long, until we released mingw-get, the wascana developer switched to the tdm distribution of gcc. (But that's ok, really). http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/wascana/ Elsewhere in this thread, folks discussed Notepad++ as a standalone editor. I use it at home; it's pretty good. -- Chuck |
From: Alexander S. <ash...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 17:41:14
|
Hello, On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:08:30 +0000 Peter Rockett wrote: > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > licensing terms are quite complex. Qt Creator is definitely open source (LGPL 2.1 + exception, which makes it even less restrictive) : http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-creator/qt-creator/trees/master |
From: Itamar R. P. <it...@is...> - 2010-11-08 17:48:17
|
>> qt-creator is a good choice. >> >> you can write programs for linux, windows and nokia cellphones. > > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > licensing terms are quite complex. qt-creator is opensource LGPL license. and off corse you can use mingw to compile your c++ project's written in qt-creator to windows plataform. ------------ Itamar Reis Peixoto msn, google talk: it...@is... +55 11 4063 5033 (FIXO SP) +55 34 9158 9329 (TIM) +55 34 8806 3989 (OI) +55 34 3221 8599 (FIXO MG) |
From: K. F. <kfr...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 18:25:04
|
Hello Everyone - Thanks to everyone for their suggestions so far. I've been looking into them, and, among other things, I've searched for notepdad2. One of the hits I got was for notepad++. Would anybody have a recommendation for or against notepad++? On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Itamar Reis Peixoto <it...@is...> wrote: >>> qt-creator is a good choice. >>> ... Thanks. K. Frank |
From: KHMan <kei...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 18:59:33
|
On 11/9/2010 2:24 AM, K. Frank wrote: > Hello Everyone - > > Thanks to everyone for their suggestions so far. I've been > looking into them, and, among other things, I've searched > for notepdad2. One of the hits I got was for notepad++. > > Would anybody have a recommendation for or against > notepad++? notepad++ has a solid pace of development and maintenance. Darrell mentioned SciTE -- note that it uses text files for configuration and is not for people expecting GUI configuration -- but I am one of many who swear by it. notepad++, notepad2 and SciTE all uses the same edit control, Scintilla, so you'd get nearly an equivalent quality of syntax highlighting. There are tons of editors and IDEs using Scintilla to choose from. An IDE can be very powerful, but it also helps to have a good editor e.g. it's useful when one always keep half a dozen editor windows open. -- Cheers, Kein-Hong Man (esq.) Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia |
From: darrell d. <dir...@gm...> - 2010-11-08 18:27:49
|
On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 15:16 -0200, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote: > >> qt-creator is a good choice. > >> > >> you can write programs for linux, windows and nokia cellphones. > > > > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > > licensing terms are quite complex. > > qt-creator is opensource LGPL license. > > and off corse you can use mingw to compile your c++ project's written > in qt-creator to windows plataform. > i like scite http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html also there is anjuta http://projects.gnome.org/anjuta/ i have mixed feelings about qt-creator, designer keeps crashing on ubuntu 10.10, only the latest versions have a class view, they may work better on windows than linux though, i dont know there is nothing wrong with programming as a child, i did it but never became a good programmer - but i still try d |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2010-11-08 22:00:37
|
Hi K, On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, K. Frank wrote: > I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), Seriously, I wouldn't recommend anyone to learn C or C++ any more, especially not as their first "real" programming language. They might be "close to the machine", but using them is an exercise in pain and frustration (I speak as an experienced C/C++ developer). I would strongly recommend Python/Django or Ruby/Rails as ways to learn how enjoyable programing can be. They are also "real" programming languages, but they are fun instead of frustrating. (And yes, I know that they have nothing to do with MinGW, sorry all!). Cheers, Chris. -- _ ___ __ _ / __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Perl/SQL/HTML Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU-free your mind-and your software | |
From: Ehsan A. <aza...@gm...> - 2010-11-09 00:05:06
|
If it is for learning purposes, I would start with visual basic or C# rather than C++. I would start with a simple graphical interactive program. Aside form that, I have very good experience with Eclipse. I think the little extra help you get hovering the mouse over an identifier and having the capability to navigate the code-base in a random-access fashion is very helpful On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...> wrote: > Hi K, > > On Mon, 8 Nov 2010, K. Frank wrote: > >> I'm teaching my daughter C++ (first "real" programming language), > > Seriously, I wouldn't recommend anyone to learn C or C++ any more, > especially not as their first "real" programming language. They might be > "close to the machine", but using them is an exercise in pain and > frustration (I speak as an experienced C/C++ developer). > > I would strongly recommend Python/Django or Ruby/Rails as ways to learn > how enjoyable programing can be. They are also "real" programming > languages, but they are fun instead of frustrating. (And yes, I know that > they have nothing to do with MinGW, sorry all!). > > Cheers, Chris. > -- > _ ___ __ _ > / __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | > / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Perl/SQL/HTML Developer | > \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU-free your mind-and your software | > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper > David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a > Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your > business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > MinGW-users mailing list > Min...@li... > > This list observes the Etiquette found at > http://www.mingw.org/Mailing_Lists. > We ask that you be polite and do the same. Disregard for the list etiquette may cause your account to be moderated. > > _______________________________________________ > You may change your MinGW Account Options or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mingw-users > |
From: Thomas S. <tks...@gm...> - 2010-11-09 03:44:21
|
Hi Frank On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 9:04 AM, K. Frank <kfr...@gm...> wrote: > > So, what would you recommend as a text editor / IDE for someone > learning C++? > Qt Creator. Part of the best cross-platform C++ programming framework there is. Easy to learn, hard to outgrow. The free open source version uses MingW build tools on Windows, should work with your existing MingW installation. Works identically on Linux and Unix, and almost so on OSX, using gnu tools. Qt has classes that emulate all of C++ std lib and lots of Boost. And of course provides a comprehensive GUI toolkit, including a visual forms designer, now integrated with Creator. And a healthy dose of SmallTalk/ObjecTime/RationalRose: variant data type; persistent objects; signals & slots -- those depend on a metacompiler because they go beyond C++, but I believe that is the way forward. The Qt source is a pretty good model of how to write C++ too; idiomatic and modern, but not too arcane. Qt Creator itself is a rather simple IDE, but does everything an IDE should do (though not in Visual C's or EMACS's league when it comes to symbol and class browsing). The integrated help system is really helpful, like Visual Basic's used to be before they ruined it. The Qmake makefile generator is also a model of simplicity -- even simpler than CMake, light-years away from the convoluted obscurities of the gnu automake system. Qmake only caters for building within the Qt framework, not for general projects; but you can use Qt Creator with Makefiles from other sources. Once you try Qt, you will probably wind up using it for your next GUI project. Cheers, Tom |
From: Thomas S. <tks...@gm...> - 2010-11-09 04:02:58
|
Hi Peter On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Peter Rockett <p.r...@sh...>wrote: > > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > licensing terms are quite complex. > > True, the source of Creator is not open. Or at least I haven't seen it. But all of Qt's library source is open, and if you like you can build customized versions. Nokia's terms have -- amazingly -- been getting less restrictive and simpler with each release of Qt. It is now fully GPLv3 licensed. There is still a "commercial" license required for people who will sell s/w built on the Qt libraries. Maybe you still have to buy that license to get full integration with MSVC, but I believe they are now distributing libraries built with MSVC for free, and supporting NMake and WinSDK in an open source edition. So you can take advantage of MS's very good optimization for Windows on i86 machines if you want to (actually you always could if you set up the build environment right and built the libs yourself). Cheers, Tom |
From: Volker G. <vo...@no...> - 2010-11-09 22:47:33
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Hi Peter, Thomas, sorry for the nitpicking, but your claims about Qt and Qt Creator are incorrect, and your conclusions are thus almost completely wrong. Thomas Sharpless <tks...@gm...> schrieb: > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Peter Rockett <p.r...@sh...>wrote: > > > > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > > licensing terms are quite complex. This is both false. Qt Creator is Free Software and is fully available under a plain standard Free Software license, namely the LGPL v2. FWIW, I also strongly recommend the Qt Creator IDE, as well as the Qt Library for GUI applications. It is really easy to use well designed in almost every aspect: Multithreading API, GUI API, build system, etc. > True, the source of Creator is not open. Or at least I haven't seen it. > But all of Qt's library source is open, and if you like you can build > customized versions. It took me 10 seconds to find the sources of Qt Creator on the official Qt homepage: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/qt-creator-source-package Their latest development version is even available in an official Git repository (which took a few more clicks to find out): http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-creator > Nokia's terms have -- amazingly -- been getting less restrictive and simpler > with each release of Qt. It is now fully GPLv3 licensed. Nope, Qt itself is also LGPL v2. You can read this in really big letters on their download site: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads The latest development version is also available in an official Git repo: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt To clarify, you can use Qt under either LGPLv2 or GPLv3 or the "commercial" license. This is explained quite clearly on the Qt licensing page: http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing > There is still a "commercial" license required for people who will sell > s/w built on the Qt libraries. The "commercial" license is _not_ needed if you merely _use_ Qt in a proprietary software project. The LGPL allows for that - no problem! You only need the "commercial" license if you want to make changes to the Qt library itself and don't want to share those changes. > Maybe you still have to buy that license to get full integration with MSVC, No, you don't. There is no separate "commercial" version of the library. There is just one version, of Qt as well as Qt Creator. > but I believe they are now distributing libraries built with MSVC > for free, and supporting NMake and WinSDK in an open source edition. You can even cross compile your application using Qt. That is, you don't even need to touch a Windows or any Microsoft SDK to create a Windows version of your software. Greets, Volker -- Volker Grabsch ---<<(())>>--- |
From: Peter R. <p.r...@sh...> - 2010-11-09 10:31:12
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On 09/11/10 04:02, Thomas Sharpless wrote: > Hi Peter > > On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Peter Rockett > <p.r...@sh... <mailto:p.r...@sh...>> wrote: > > > I've heard good things about qt-creator but be aware it's not open > source. Maybe not an issue for teaching your daughter C++ but Nokia's > licensing terms are quite complex. > > True, the source of Creator is not open. Or at least I haven't seen > it. But all of Qt's library source is open, and if you like you can > build customized versions. > > Nokia's terms have -- amazingly -- been getting less restrictive and > simpler with each release of Qt. It is now fully GPLv3 licensed. > There is still a "commercial" license required for people who will > sell s/w built on the Qt libraries. Maybe you still have to buy that > license to get full integration with MSVC, but I believe they are now > distributing libraries built with MSVC for free, and supporting NMake > and WinSDK in an open source edition. So you can take advantage of > MS's very good optimization for Windows on i86 machines if you want to > (actually you always could if you set up the build environment right > and built the libs yourself). > > Cheers, Tom > Tom Thanks for this. My information was clearly out of date. Once upon a time, I am sure any commercial use of Qt required you to buy a licence. Maybe since Nokia took over TrollTech things have been more open? P. |
From: K. F. <kfr...@gm...> - 2010-11-09 16:57:00
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Hello All - On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Peter Rockett <p.r...@sh...> wrote: > > On 09/11/10 04:02, Thomas Sharpless wrote: > ... Thanks to everyone for their various suggestions. I think we'll kick around notepad++ for a while, and see how it goes. I appreciate all the advice offered. K. Frank |
From: Erwin W. <wat...@xs...> - 2010-11-09 17:44:37
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K. Frank schreef, Op 9-11-2010 17:56: > Thanks to everyone for their various suggestions. > I think we'll kick around notepad++ for a while, and see how > it goes. > > I appreciate all the advice offered. > > > K. Frank > Perhaps Dev-C++ is interesting. I think it is not maintained any more, but still usable for simple stuff. One simple installer that installs IDE and MinGW (gcc 3.4.2). http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html -- Erwin |
From: Volker G. <vo...@no...> - 2010-11-09 22:56:01
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Peter Rockett <p.r...@sh...> schrieb: > Thanks for this. My information was clearly out of date. Once upon a > time, I am sure any commercial use of Qt required you to buy a licence. Qt is even more liberal than stated here. See my other email for explainations. > Maybe since Nokia took over TrollTech things have been more open? TrollTech opened their licensing a lot over time, making everything available under GPL, even the Windows and Mac OS X versions. Only the latest step, offering LGPL in addition to GPL, happened at Nokia. Greets, Volker -- Volker Grabsch ---<<(())>>--- |