Re: [Gambas-devel] Translating Dutch 0.99RC1? (rel 25-oct) Information

[Benoit M. <ga...@us...>]

On Saturday 30 October 2004 03:53, Ron Onstenk wrote:
> I'm busy to translate but miss some points.
>
>
> Orginal English text:
> ---------------------
> 1 Translation language
> 2 Translation files
> 3 Translation
> 4 Translated string symbols do not match untranslated string ones.
> 5 Translate project
> 6 Translate
>
> Translate to Dutch in a direct way:
> ---------------------------------
> 1 Vertaling taal (sounds stupid in Dutch)
> 2 Vertaling bestanden (sounds stupid in Dutch)
> 3 Vertaling
> 4 Vertaalde string symbolen komen niet overeen met onvertaalde 1s
> 5 Vertalen project
> 6 Vertalen
>
> Translate to Dutch for common sense:
> ------------------------------------
> 1 Vertalen naar
>   Was happy to see in the translate form before combobox
>   else the Dutch text was 'Vertalings taal' or 'Vertaal taal' and
>   sounding stupid as commented.
>   If on other place it should be translated to something different.
>
> 2 Vertaalde bestanden
>   In English the second word means there are more then 1 file
>   For dutch it is reversed and back to English it is
>   'Translations file'
>   I belive it means 'Translated files' wich in Dutch is
>   'Vertaalde bestanden'
>
>   Note here: 'Translation' can be single or multiple meaning
>   in Dutch and have different Dutch words.
>   'Translation' -> 'Vertaling' 'Vertaald' in single context
>   and 'Vertalingen' 'Vertaalden' in multiple context
>
> 3 Vertaling
>   If it is in the translate form, the Dutch meaning of the box
>   is 'Vertalen naar' -> 'translate to' or 'Vertaald'
>   'Vertaling'-'Translation' meaning is translated to.
>
> 4 ? Vertaalde tekst symbolen komen niet overeen met onvertaalde 1s ?
>   ? Vertaalde tekst symbolen komen niet met onvertaalde overeen ?
>   ? Vertaalde karakter symbolen komen niet met onvertaalde overeen ?
>   ? Vertaalde en onvertaalde tekst symbolen komen niet overeen. ?
>
>   I can't make any thing of it.
>   String can mean a chain of characters  or the phrase in whole.
>   The chain as '14fred8-=gam?bas'
>   The phrase as 'Gambas is nice to use'
>   For both the word 'string' are different in Dutch translating.
>   Also the meaning of 'symbols' is not clear in the phrase without knowing
>   in what context it is used.
>   I have chosen the last one as best (and fit for space).
>
> 5 Vertalen project
>   This one was easy, found it on the caption of the form.
>   An other choice was 'Project vertalen' and the right one
>   should be 'Vertalen van project'.
>
> 6 Vertalen
>    I hope this is right, as single word there are in Dutch more
> translations 'Vertalen' is doing the job of translating
>
> Personal I belive the Translate form itself should stay untranslated.
> Imagine the user is Dutch and has a German system and want to French :)
> The Dutch meaning of the words is sometimes different to the German words.
>
> The beautiful capacity of the English language makes that one word
> can mean many things but also there are many words meaning the same.
> For programming it is always easy to find a single word as caption
> for a button, require many times in Dutch a longer or 2 words to be clear.
> I had same style of problem, as non native German, with translate to
> German. Thats my biggest reason to stay in English.
> Programmers chose always words that are short for the button not realizing
> that it will be bigger in other local languages.
> Same for phrases it is possible to find/create a short one that fits.
>
> So at the end I hope it is correct and for this 6 I did look in the German
> translation to have a idea my choice was good enough.
> I realize it is/can be a hard job to do it RIGHT, it looks so simple.
>
>
> BTW. I found the object hint where the phrase is on the right side of
> the 'Untranslated string' box. Haven't seen before, older version.
> An other help can be to have a 3 language column as backup reference
> during translating.
> For me is German usefull but I must not forget to save first. :)
>
>
>
> Top to bottom?
> From foreground to background (deep) or Highest to lowest(height)
> 'Voorgrond naar achtergrond' is what I belive is the meaning here(deepnes).
> 'Voor- naar achter-grond' is the right shorten form for good Dutch or
> 'Voor naar achtergrond' as relaxed but improper way
> 'Naar achtergrond' is the one I chose, in English 'To background'
>
> The point is I do not know if it is a button, or menu entry and the space
> it has. It is in the FForm.class file and I can't open it if the translate
> form is open to look in what context it is used. See following interview.
>
>
> from interview with Rinse de Vries (http://www.kde.nl/people/rinse.html)
> [interview]
> - What are the problems you encounter while translating?
>
>  There are 3 issues I have to deal with:
>
> 1) Should the string be translated or not - The Dutch language is lending a
> lot of foreign computer words. If we translate too much English terms, we
> could scare away the advanced users, but if we translate too little
> computer terms, the newbe would not understand them.
>
>
> 2) In which context is the message used- some messages can be translated in
> 5 ways, depending on its context. To deal with this, I try to determine the
> context by reading the other messages around it, or by checking the German
> translation.
>
>
> 3) Conflicting accelerators. - this is the hardest one, it is not easy to
> avoid conflicts between accelerators. Most of the time I can solve this by
> reading surrounding messages, but sometimes the messages don't look related
> in the po-file, while in the real world, they are used in the same
> menu/dialog box...
>
> [/interview]
>
> He is exactly telling the problems I find during the translating job ATM.
> He give a hint that grouping of the parts to translate that are in the same
> file in this case will help for the translating and accelerators keys.
>
> I have written an email to Fabrice Mous who has done this job in the past
> to get info if he still do this or give up and where to find appropriate
> help.
>
>
>
> I give up to get it working. My last try was as follows:
>
> Start new shell and type
> RC_LANG=nl_NL
> made a clean directory with the 0.99RC1 unpacked
> no changes from me , just plain as the file is.
> made a script as follows
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
> #!/bin/sh
>
> RC_ALL=nl_NL
> RC_LANG=nl_NL
> LC_LANG=nl_NL
> LC_ALL=nl_NL
> LC_MESSAGES=nl_NL
> LC_CTYPE=nl_NL
>
> export RC_ALL
> export RC_LANG
> export LC_LANG
> export LC_ALL
> export LC_MESSAGES
> export LC_CTYPE
>
> #make clean
> #./reconf
> ./configure
> make
> make install
> /opt/gambas/gambas
>
> # end script
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> env | grep LANG tell me RC_LANG=nl_NL
>
> Did run the script.
> gambas is called from the script to and  should get nl_NL
>
> Gambas is telling me system.language=en_US
>
> I get also with verify in the translate form
>   'Translated string symbols do not match untranslated string ones.'
>
> No idea what that means, no hint for the first one that does not match
> to take care off.
>
> Please where and when is the IDE told to run in the language set and by
> what variable!!!!
>
> If I have to send in the po file then I have to wait to the next
> release to see it is done the right way.
> I need simple direct preview to prevent that loss of time else
> I'm afraid it will be gambas version 2.99a till is is correct :(
>
>
> Ron
>
>

The interpreter uses the following environment variables:
- LANGUAGE if it exists (a list of preferred language)
- The language specified in LANG.
- Then, the libc function setlocale is used (man setlocale).

Regards,

-- 
Benoit Minisini
mailto:ga...@us...