Thread: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files)
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-13 15:32:00
|
I've not been following this (Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) thread closely as I don't generally use metadata, but as the topic is about changing the metadata in RIFF files I think it is relevant to mention an issue that has recently been identified on the Audacity forum concerning metadata in AIFF files. Currently Audacity includes "NAME", "AUTH", "ANNO" and "ID3 " chunks. "NAME" contains Audacity "Track Title" "AUTH" contains Audacity "Artist Name" "ANNO" contains Audacity "Comments" "ID3 " contains Audacity "Album Title, Track Title, Track Number, Comment, Artist Name, Year, Genre" Unfortunately, if NAME, AUTH or ANNO contain an odd number of bytes, then the file will fail completely in iPod Classics and show errors in several applications, including> (Mac OS X) iTunes, Amadeus, Peak LE and (Windows) Riff-Pad. The problem is that Audacity is correctly adding a padding byte when necessary to make the number of bytes even, and correctly *not including* that pad byte in ckSize, but iPod Classics and these applications are incorrectly forgetting about the padding and looking for the next chunk after ckSize bytes (thus the next chunk is offset by one byte). Probably the easiest solution would be to not write the (optional) Text chunks, but we would not want to do that if there are applications that use those chunks. Perhaps a better solution would be to provide options in the Metadata Editor that allow users to NOT create certain chunks, and for the Text chunks to be disabled by default on Mac OS X. Steve On 13 August 2013 12:54, Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> wrote: > Hello, > > i think that we are discussing about something which is not a real problem. > > Some explanation: > > 1) To be compatible with Window, the "LIST" patch within a wav file must absolutely be located at the end of the File, after the data chunk. > > 2) For streaming applications, it is nice to get the metadata before receiving the audio data itself. > > 3) When we duplicate the "LIST" metadata, "libsndfile" replaces the ID of the first occurrence of the "LIST" chunk with a "PAD " chunk (but the content is maintained). > > > Some observation: > > 1) the same happens in foobar2000: the first "LIST" chunk ID is replaced with a "JUNK" chunk and the useful "LIST" metadata is always moved the end when not already there. > > 2) I doubt that any streaming application will ever use those "PAD " or "JUNK" metadata. > > 3) Moreover, PCM WAV format is almost never used for streaming because of its higher bit-rate. > > Conclusion: > > 1) Considering that the compatibility with Windows is more important that with hypothetic streaming, i propose that we keep only ONE "LIST" chunk AFTER the "DATA" chunk. > > 2) "libsndfile" doesn't process the "Album" and "track" tags correctly. Those tags are important. "libsndfile" must be (slightly) updated. It is done in the patch. > > > ==> In attachment you will find the patch that i propose for commitment. It is exactly the same as the one already checked by Gale, but with only a single "AddStrings()" to create a single "LIST" chunk. > > Best regards, > > Joel > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 02:19:23 +0100 >> From: ga...@au... >> To: aud...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files >> >> >> | From Martyn Shaw <mar...@gm...> >> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 01:20:13 +0100 >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files >>> >>> On 13/08/2013 00:58, Gale Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 01:16:16 +0200 >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files >>>>> Gale wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Joel, >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried this and no applications I tried (Windows Media Player, Foobar >>>>>> 2000 and VLC on all three platforms) are adversely affected. >>>>>> >>>>>> However I don't know what applications if any need the LIST chunk >>>>>> before the DATA chunk, so can't test that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also do I assume replacing the "LIST" before the DATA chunk with >>>>>> "PAD " is known to be sufficient for such applications? Does it work >>>>>> because the size of "PAD " and "LIST" (at the bottom) is the same? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >>>>> >>>>> ==> Hello Gale, >>>>> >>>>> I don't know neither! Foobar2000 replaces the "LIST" chunk located >>>>> at the beginning of the file by a "JUNK" chunk, similar to a "PAD " >>>>> chunk... For sure, this "JUNK" chunk will never be used. >>>>> Only streaming applications could be interested to find the metadata >>>>> at the beginning of the file, but "WAV" format is seldom used for >>>>> streaming, its bit rate is too high. >>>> >>>> OK, but we definitely don't need to actually repeat the metadata >>>> (in the LIST chunk at the bottom) in a LIST chunk at the top? >>> >>> I don't understand that. "...we definitely don't need to..." followed >>> by a "?" ? Do we have a problem here or not? >>> >>> Come on, QA (Gale), is this better than we have now? Does it produce >>> a problem more than we have? What is the patch to commit? >> >> Either patch as I tested them is a big improvement. Windows >> will now see LIST tags in WAV files (whichever ones that both >> Audacity and Windows support). >> >> The choice between the patches is that this patch tries to help >> apps that need the LIST tags before the audio data. I thought >> the patch was thus going to duplicate the LIST chunk before the >> data. But seemingly this patch still only writes one LIST chunk, >> relying on a "PAD " chunk before the data instead of a duplicate >> LIST chunk. >> >> As I said, I don't know if this a practical problem unless I find >> an app that needs the LIST chunk at the top (or set some >> WAV streaming up somehow). I guess it could be a practical >> problem. >> >> >> >> Gale >> >> >>> That is, >>>> if the genre is "Acid" you would find two instances of "Acid" by >>>> searching in a Hex Editor? >>>> >>>> What I am getting at is that there is only seemingly one LIST chunk >>>> (at the bottom). After the fmt subchunk at the top, there is no >>>> LIST chunk that I can see - just the "PAD " chunk identifier followed >>>> by its size, but the chunk only contains zeros after that. >>>> >>>> The next chunk is the data subchunk. >>>> >>>> If you aren't seeing that, is something wrong? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-13 20:05:57
|
Steve wrote: ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:31:52 +0100 > From: ste...@gm... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > I've not been following this (Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > thread closely as I don't generally use metadata, but as the topic is > about changing the metadata in RIFF files I think it is relevant to > mention an issue that has recently been identified on the Audacity > forum concerning metadata in AIFF files. > > Currently Audacity includes "NAME", "AUTH", "ANNO" and "ID3 " chunks. > "NAME" contains Audacity "Track Title" > "AUTH" contains Audacity "Artist Name" > "ANNO" contains Audacity "Comments" > "ID3 " contains Audacity "Album Title, Track Title, Track Number, > Comment, Artist Name, Year, Genre" > > Unfortunately, if NAME, AUTH or ANNO contain an odd number of bytes, > then the file will fail completely in iPod Classics and show errors in > several applications, including> (Mac OS X) iTunes, Amadeus, Peak LE > and (Windows) Riff-Pad. > > The problem is that Audacity is correctly adding a padding byte when > necessary to make the number of bytes even, and correctly *not > including* that pad byte in ckSize, but iPod Classics and these > applications are incorrectly forgetting about the padding and looking > for the next chunk after ckSize bytes (thus the next chunk is offset > by one byte). > > Probably the easiest solution would be to not write the (optional) > Text chunks, but we would not want to do that if there are > applications that use those chunks. Perhaps a better solution would be > to provide options in the Metadata Editor that allow users to NOT > create certain chunks, and for the Text chunks to be disabled by > default on Mac OS X. > > Steve > Hello Steve, i do not know the problem and i have no way for testing this but maybe that a simple solution would be to add a space character at the end of every even string rather than adding padding ? Best regards, Joel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-13 21:05:30
|
| From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:05:50 +0200 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > Steve wrote: > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:31:52 +0100 > > From: ste...@gm... > > To: aud...@li... > > Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > > I've not been following this (Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > thread closely as I don't generally use metadata, but as the topic is > > about changing the metadata in RIFF files I think it is relevant to > > mention an issue that has recently been identified on the Audacity > > forum concerning metadata in AIFF files. > > > > Currently Audacity includes "NAME", "AUTH", "ANNO" and "ID3 " chunks. > > "NAME" contains Audacity "Track Title" > > "AUTH" contains Audacity "Artist Name" > > "ANNO" contains Audacity "Comments" > > "ID3 " contains Audacity "Album Title, Track Title, Track Number, > > Comment, Artist Name, Year, Genre" > > > > Unfortunately, if NAME, AUTH or ANNO contain an odd number of bytes, > > then the file will fail completely in iPod Classics and show errors in > > several applications, including> (Mac OS X) iTunes, Amadeus, Peak LE > > and (Windows) Riff-Pad. > > > > The problem is that Audacity is correctly adding a padding byte when > > necessary to make the number of bytes even, and correctly *not > > including* that pad byte in ckSize, but iPod Classics and these > > applications are incorrectly forgetting about the padding and looking > > for the next chunk after ckSize bytes (thus the next chunk is offset > > by one byte). > > > > Probably the easiest solution would be to not write the (optional) > > Text chunks, but we would not want to do that if there are > > applications that use those chunks. > > > > Steve > > > > Hello Steve, > > i do not know the problem and i have no way for testing this but > maybe that a simple solution would be to add a space character at the > end of every even string rather than adding padding ? That extra space does allow the file to play on the problem iPod concerned, and is allowable in the AIFF specification. Given the bugs in old Mac apps, I don't know if adding a trailing space could itself cause a problem. It's possible we could test that, given time. iTunes itself has no problem in playing AIFF files where the optional chunks have an odd number of bytes, and does not show any error messages for them. iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for the problem. My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more than one chunk for a piece of metadata). Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks only when encoding on Mac OS X. I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom of the file as well as at the top. Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. Gale |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-13 22:53:29
|
On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:05:50 +0200 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 > metadata in WAV files) > > Steve wrote: > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:31:52 +0100 > > > From: ste...@gm... > > > To: aud...@li... > > > Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 > metadata in WAV files) > > > > > > I've not been following this (Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > thread closely as I don't generally use metadata, but as the topic is > > > about changing the metadata in RIFF files I think it is relevant to > > > mention an issue that has recently been identified on the Audacity > > > forum concerning metadata in AIFF files. > > > > > > Currently Audacity includes "NAME", "AUTH", "ANNO" and "ID3 " chunks. > > > "NAME" contains Audacity "Track Title" > > > "AUTH" contains Audacity "Artist Name" > > > "ANNO" contains Audacity "Comments" > > > "ID3 " contains Audacity "Album Title, Track Title, Track Number, > > > Comment, Artist Name, Year, Genre" > > > > > > Unfortunately, if NAME, AUTH or ANNO contain an odd number of bytes, > > > then the file will fail completely in iPod Classics and show errors in > > > several applications, including> (Mac OS X) iTunes, Amadeus, Peak LE > > > and (Windows) Riff-Pad. > > > > > > The problem is that Audacity is correctly adding a padding byte when > > > necessary to make the number of bytes even, and correctly *not > > > including* that pad byte in ckSize, but iPod Classics and these > > > applications are incorrectly forgetting about the padding and looking > > > for the next chunk after ckSize bytes (thus the next chunk is offset > > > by one byte). > > > > > > Probably the easiest solution would be to not write the (optional) > > > Text chunks, but we would not want to do that if there are > > > applications that use those chunks. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > Hello Steve, > > > > i do not know the problem and i have no way for testing this but > > maybe that a simple solution would be to add a space character at the > > end of every even string rather than adding padding ? > > That extra space does allow the file to play on the problem iPod > concerned, and is allowable in the AIFF specification. > Yes, I manually repaired a file that previously showed the problem by replacing the padding and incrementing ckSize and that solved the problem > > Given the bugs in old Mac apps, I don't know if adding a trailing space > could itself cause a problem. It's possible we could test that, given > time. > > iTunes itself has no problem in playing AIFF files where the optional > chunks have an odd number of bytes, and does not show any error > messages for them. Thanks for the clarification Gale, I was confused about that (you'll understand why ;-) > iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create > an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for > the problem. > > My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice > of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more > than one chunk for a piece of metadata). > An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track projects if audio is imported). Steve > > Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks > only when encoding on Mac OS X. > > I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end > and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom > of the file as well as at the top. > > Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. > I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version > that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. > > > > > Gale > > > |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-15 00:06:29
|
| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: [...] > > > > iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create > > an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for > > the problem. > > > > My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice > > of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more > > than one chunk for a piece of metadata). > > > > An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve > the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be > required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also > greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly > obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not > wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track > projects if audio is imported). Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. It's an option we should have in any case IMO. "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in the context of fixing bug 551: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor (instead of having a Preference to do that). I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. Gale > > Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks > > only when encoding on Mac OS X. > > > > I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end > > and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom > > of the file as well as at the top. > > > > Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. > > I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version > > that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. > > > > > > > > > > Gale > > > > > > |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-15 03:00:39
|
Hello Steve, hello Gale, in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the beginning of the file before the SSND data. This is the best solution for streaming. But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. I also think that some way to disable all tags when exporting - without losing the tag strings themselfs - would be nice. This would not only be useful for the iPod but for other audio players too: the new tendency is to use "cue files" or "cue lists" which hold all the information and the "track cut" outside the audio file itself, but within the same directory. In the same directory are also stored other informations about the album: lyrics, pictures, comments, ... The "object" is no more the music file, but the whole "album" directory. In this case the metadata inside the audio file is redundant. Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the best place to install this option is to add a check box within this dialog box. I could easily do that. The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. Best regards, Joel ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 > From: ga...@au... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > [...] >>> >>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>> the problem. >>> >>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>> >> >> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >> projects if audio is imported). > > Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. > It's an option we should have in any case IMO. > > "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod > issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata > is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after > it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the > metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. > > Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in > the context of fixing bug 551: > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . > > That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in > the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor > (instead of having a Preference to do that). > > I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I > know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. > iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so > probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. > > > > Gale > >>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>> >>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>> of the file as well as at the top. >>> >>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gale >>> >>> >>> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-15 21:17:12
|
| From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is > at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the > beginning of the file before the SSND data. > This is the best solution for streaming. > But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch > where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). > > Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. OK thanks. I'll try both. > Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the > best place to install this option is to add a check box within this > dialog box. I could easily do that. Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that control also decide if metadata is exported or not. But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us know your ideas (probably a separate topic). > The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands > running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to > every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add > a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain > before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. Thanks for thinking about that. What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? Gale > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 > > From: ga...@au... > > To: aud...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > > > > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > > | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > [...] > >>> > >>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create > >>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for > >>> the problem. > >>> > >>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice > >>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more > >>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). > >>> > >> > >> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve > >> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be > >> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also > >> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly > >> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not > >> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track > >> projects if audio is imported). > > > > Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. > > It's an option we should have in any case IMO. > > > > "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod > > issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata > > is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after > > it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the > > metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. > > > > Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in > > the context of fixing bug 551: > > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . > > > > That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in > > the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor > > (instead of having a Preference to do that). > > > > I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I > > know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. > > iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so > > probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. > > > > > > > > Gale > > > >>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks > >>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. > >>> > >>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end > >>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom > >>> of the file as well as at the top. > >>> > >>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. > >>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version > >>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Gale |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-16 01:26:42
|
On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >> This is the best solution for streaming. >> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >> >> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. > > OK thanks. I'll try both. > > >> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >> dialog box. I could easily do that. > > Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit > Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. > > So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" > checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is > off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the > editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. > > So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to > the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that > control also decide if metadata is exported or not. > > But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us > know your ideas (probably a separate topic). > > >> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. > > Thanks for thinking about that. > > What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another > (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that > was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? > > It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", Steve > > You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only > apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? > > > > Gale > > >> ---------------------------------------- >> > Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >> > From: ga...@au... >> > To: aud...@li... >> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> > >> > >> > | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >> > | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> > [...] >> >>> >> >>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >> >>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >> >>> the problem. >> >>> >> >>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >> >>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >> >>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >> >>> >> >> >> >> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >> >> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >> >> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >> >> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >> >> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >> >> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >> >> projects if audio is imported). >> > >> > Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >> > It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >> > >> > "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >> > issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >> > is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >> > it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >> > metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >> > >> > Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >> > the context of fixing bug 551: >> > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >> > >> > That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >> > the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >> > (instead of having a Preference to do that). >> > >> > I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >> > know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >> > iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >> > probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >> > >> > >> > >> > Gale >> > >> >>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >> >>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >> >>> >> >>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >> >>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >> >>> of the file as well as at the top. >> >>> >> >>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >> >>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >> >>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Gale > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-16 11:56:51
|
Hello Gale, Hello Steve, I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before exporting. I seldom click on the "Option" button to get access to the format settings. For me, the default settings are ok: i always use FLAC or PCM format, at 16 bits (I cannot hear any difference between audio tracks at 16 bits or 24 bits!). Now, other users have probably other habitudes. Could the question be posted on the User forum? For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely more than a single export command at the end of a chain... But i can add this option to every ExportXXX dialog box if you prefer... just tell me! Best regards, Joel ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 > From: ste...@gm... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>> >>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >> >> OK thanks. I'll try both. >> >> >>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >> >> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >> >> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >> >> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >> >> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >> >> >>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >> >> Thanks for thinking about that. >> >> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >> >> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. > > "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", > Steve > >> >> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >> >> >> >> Gale >> >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>> From: ga...@au... >>>> To: aud...@li... >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>> >>>> >>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>>> >>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>> >>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>> >>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>> >>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >>>> >>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>> >>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale >>>> >>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>> >>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-16 12:09:20
|
On 16 August 2013 12:56, Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> wrote: > Hello Gale, Hello Steve, > > I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! > > As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before exporting. I seldom click on the "Option" button to get access to the format settings. For me, the default settings are ok: i always use FLAC or PCM format, at 16 bits (I cannot hear any difference between audio tracks at 16 bits or 24 bits!). As a user of Audacity, my preference would be to be able to set it once, disable the Metadata Editor pop-up, and then forget about it, because I never use metadata in Audacity. I don't personally mind where that option is, though if it is in the Metadata Editor then users will stumble across it the first time that they export. > > Now, other users have probably other habitudes. Could the question be posted on the User forum? Yes, good idea. We can do that. Steve > > For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > But i can add this option to every ExportXXX dialog box if you prefer... just tell me! > > Best regards, > > Joel > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >> From: ste...@gm... >> To: aud...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>> >>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>>> >>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >>> >>> OK thanks. I'll try both. >>> >>> >>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >>> >>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >>> >>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >>> >>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >>> >>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >>> >>> >>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >>> >>> Thanks for thinking about that. >>> >>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >>> >>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >> >> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >> Steve >> >>> >>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >>> >>> >>> >>> Gale >>> >>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>>> From: ga...@au... >>>>> To: aud...@li... >>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>>> >>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>>> >>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>>> >>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >>>>> >>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>>> >>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gale >>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gale >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >>> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >>> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >>> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> audacity-devel mailing list >>> aud...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-16 16:07:28
|
| From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! > > As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, > because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before > exporting. Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it needs much debate. I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". Some people even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only > applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is > not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely > more than a single export command at the end of a chain... The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it could be seen. Gale ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 > > From: ste...@gm... > > To: aud...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > > On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > >> > >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > >> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 > >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is > >>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the > >>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. > >>> This is the best solution for streaming. > >>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch > >>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). > >>> > >>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. > >> > >> OK thanks. I'll try both. > >> > >> > >>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the > >>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this > >>> dialog box. I could easily do that. > >> > >> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit > >> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. > >> > >> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" > >> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is > >> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the > >> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. > >> > >> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to > >> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that > >> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. > >> > >> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us > >> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). > >> > >> > >>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands > >>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to > >>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add > >>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain > >>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. > >> > >> Thanks for thinking about that. > >> > >> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another > >> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that > >> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? > >> > >> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. > > > > "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", > > Steve > > > >> > >> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only > >> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? > >> > >> > >> > >> Gale > >> > >> > >>> ---------------------------------------- > >>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 > >>>> From: ga...@au... > >>>> To: aud...@li... > >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > >>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 > >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > >>>> [...] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create > >>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for > >>>>>> the problem. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice > >>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more > >>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve > >>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be > >>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also > >>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly > >>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not > >>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track > >>>>> projects if audio is imported). > >>>> > >>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. > >>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. > >>>> > >>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod > >>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata > >>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after > >>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the > >>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. > >>>> > >>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in > >>>> the context of fixing bug 551: > >>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . > >>>> > >>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in > >>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor > >>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). > >>>> > >>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I > >>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. > >>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so > >>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Gale > >>>> > >>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks > >>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end > >>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom > >>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. > >>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version > >>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Gale |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-16 17:05:26
Attachments:
DisableMetadata_0(dummy).patch
|
Hello Gale, hello Steve, Here is a small patch which implements the "disable metadata" check box in the way described by Steve on the User forum. It seems to me that this method is convenient and very simple. REMARK: the metadata disabling is dummy: this patch it is just for experimenting the Dialog interface! The metadata is not really disabled. For this purpose i have to patch the Export commands and this would conflict with my other work on PCM metadata and ID3V2 metadata. I must wait that those other patches are committed before implementing the disabling. Best regards, Joel P.S: where can i find a complete description of the bug 551 ? ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:06:55 +0100 > From: ga...@au... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! >> >> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, >> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before >> exporting. > > Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should > move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it > needs much debate. > > I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable > metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. > > Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". Some people > even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the > most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. > > Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that > people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. > Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea > that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor > in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor > makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). > > That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead > make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) > a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. > If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > > >> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only >> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is >> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely >> more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > > The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no > metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. > > I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as > long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it > could be seen. > > > > Gale > > > > ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >>> From: ste...@gm... >>> To: aud...@li... >>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>> >>> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>> >>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>>>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>>>> >>>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >>>> >>>> OK thanks. I'll try both. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >>>> >>>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >>>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >>>> >>>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >>>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >>>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >>>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >>>> >>>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >>>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >>>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >>>> >>>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >>>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >>>> >>>> >>>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >>>> >>>> Thanks for thinking about that. >>>> >>>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >>>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >>>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >>>> >>>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >>> >>> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >>> Steve >>> >>>> >>>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >>>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale >>>> >>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>>>> From: ga...@au... >>>>>> To: aud...@li... >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>>>> >>>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >>>>>> >>>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gale > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Peter S. <pet...@ya...> - 2013-08-16 17:39:50
|
Joel, the bugs are logged on Bugzilla: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 You will probably need to apply for a bug-wrangler account (Gale should be able to do this for you). Cheers, Peter Peter Sampson Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 ________________________________ From: Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> To: "aud...@li..." <aud...@li...> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) Hello Gale, hello Steve, Here is a small patch which implements the "disable metadata" check box in the way described by Steve on the User forum. It seems to me that this method is convenient and very simple. REMARK: the metadata disabling is dummy: this patch it is just for experimenting the Dialog interface! The metadata is not really disabled. For this purpose i have to patch the Export commands and this would conflict with my other work on PCM metadata and ID3V2 metadata. I must wait that those other patches are committed before implementing the disabling. Best regards, Joel P.S: where can i find a complete description of the bug 551 ? ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:06:55 +0100 > From: ga...@au... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! >> >> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, >> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before >> exporting. > > Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should > move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it > needs much debate. > > I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable > metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. > > Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". Some people > even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the > most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. > > Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that > people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. > Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea > that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor > in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor > makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). > > That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead > make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) > a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. > If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > > >> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only >> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is >> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely >> more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > > The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no > metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. > > I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as > long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it > could be seen. > > > > Gale > > > > ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >>> From: ste...@gm... >>> To: aud...@li... >>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>> >>> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>> >>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>>>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>>>> >>>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >>>> >>>> OK thanks. I'll try both. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >>>> >>>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >>>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >>>> >>>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >>>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >>>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >>>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >>>> >>>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >>>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >>>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >>>> >>>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >>>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >>>> >>>> >>>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >>>> >>>> Thanks for thinking about that. >>>> >>>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >>>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >>>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >>>> >>>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >>> >>> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >>> Steve >>> >>>> >>>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >>>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale >>>> >>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>>>> From: ga...@au... >>>>>> To: aud...@li... >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>>>> >>>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551. >>>>>> >>>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gale > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing list aud...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-16 17:13:52
|
On 16 August 2013 17:06, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! >> >> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, >> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before >> exporting. > > Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should > move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it > needs much debate. That might have been a good idea before raising more contentious issues. > > I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable > metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. > > Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". Sorry Gale but that is totally irrelevant. We don't vote on bugs. Bugs are things that happen by accident and require fixing. Votes don't come into it. > Some people > even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the > most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. No it's probably not, but Joel has put forward a separate patch for that. We are now discussing the issue of allowing users to export files without metadata. In case anyone missed my previous post I have raised the question of disabling Metadata on the forum, which opens up the discussion to a wider audience that just the devel/QA lists. However if you would also like to discuss the issue on QA then I'd suggest that you start a new topic there so that we don't confuse this question with other issues about metadata. > > Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that > people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. > Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea > that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor > in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor > makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). > > That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead > make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) > a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. > If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? Basing a design decision on a bug workaround is wrong and I strongly oppose doing so. Steve > > >> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only >> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is >> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely >> more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > > The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no > metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. > > I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as > long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it > could be seen. > > > > Gale > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >> > From: ste...@gm... >> > To: aud...@li... >> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> > >> > On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> >> >> >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >> >> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >> >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >> >>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >> >>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >> >>> This is the best solution for streaming. >> >>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >> >>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >> >>> >> >>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >> >> >> >> OK thanks. I'll try both. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >> >>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >> >>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >> >> >> >> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >> >> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >> >> >> >> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >> >> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >> >> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >> >> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >> >> >> >> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >> >> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >> >> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >> >> >> >> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >> >> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >> >> >> >> >> >>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >> >>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >> >>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >> >>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >> >>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >> >> >> >> Thanks for thinking about that. >> >> >> >> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >> >> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >> >> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >> >> >> >> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >> > >> > "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >> > Steve >> > >> >> >> >> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >> >> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Gale >> >> >> >> >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >> >>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >> >>>> From: ga...@au... >> >>>> To: aud...@li... >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >> >>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >> >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> >>>> [...] >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >> >>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >> >>>>>> the problem. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >> >>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >> >>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >> >>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >> >>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >> >>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >> >>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >> >>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >> >>>>> projects if audio is imported). >> >>>> >> >>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >> >>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >> >>>> >> >>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >> >>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >> >>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >> >>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >> >>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >> >>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >> >>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >> >>>> >> >>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >> >>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >> >>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >> >>>> >> >>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >> >>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >> >>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >> >>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Gale >> >>>> >> >>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >> >>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >> >>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >> >>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >> >>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >> >>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Gale > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-16 18:27:08
|
| From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:55:24 +0100 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > On 16 August 2013 17:06, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > > > > | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > > | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 > > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! > >> > >> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, > >> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before > >> exporting. > > > > Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should > > move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it > > needs much debate. > > That might have been a good idea before raising more contentious issues. > > > I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable > > metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. > > > > Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". > > Sorry Gale but that is totally irrelevant. We don't vote on bugs. Bugs > are things that happen by accident and require fixing. Votes don't > come into it. Steve, the point I am making and obviously failing to get across is that the best way to provide "no metadata" export is IMO inherently interlinked with bug 551. The "No Metadata" checkbox proposed in Metadata Editor seems to me to presuppose the best way to fix the user experience around 551 involves keeping the current "Show Metadata Editor" Preference. I don't think that is the current consensus. It might become so, but we would need to discuss it (or someone implements their own preferred solution to it). Doesn't fixing "no metadata export" now by just adding a checkbox to Metadata Editor circumscribe the choices of how to fix 551? > > Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that > > people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. > > Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea > > that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor > > in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor > > makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). > > > > That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead > > make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) > > a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. > > If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > > Basing a design decision on a bug workaround is wrong and I strongly > oppose doing so. I agree, but I don't think I am doing that. Bug 551 is an enhancement request, "design decision" bug. Gale |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-19 20:18:16
Attachments:
bug551_simple_fix0.patch
bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch
|
Hello Gale, Hello Steve, I have had a look to the bug 551 described by Gale. In fact this is not a bug, the metadata is just not saved from a previous edition to the next. There is a very simple way to fix this. At start ExportMultiple uses tags stored in the project: " // copy project metadata to start with setting.filetags = *(mProject->GetTags()); " ==> Storing the tags in the project when leaving the Metadata editor is a easy way to recover them for the next time slice. You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch". This is a very short patch. But this solution has two drawbacks: - it opens the Metadata editor for every time slice and i think this is a nuisance. - Although declared as "read only" the "Title" and the "Track" fields can still be edited (at least on Windows). The modifications are accepted but not taken into account, this is confusing. ==> I have developed another solution: - The Metadata editor is opened only once. - A modification to the "Title" or to the "Track" fields are taken into account (but they do not modify the "labelx" file names. You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch". This last patch only modifies the "ExportMultiple.cpp" file. Therefore installing the first patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch" is not necessary to experiment this second patch. REMARK: this last patch only modifies the method "ExportMultipleByLabel" used in the example described by Gale. I did not yet fix the method "ExportMultipleByTrack". This is almost the same, but i will do this only if the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch" is preferred. Best regards, Joel ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:55:24 +0100 > From: ste...@gm... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > > On 16 August 2013 17:06, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >> >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >> | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! >>> >>> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, >>> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before >>> exporting. >> >> Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should >> move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it >> needs much debate. > > That might have been a good idea before raising more contentious issues. > >> >> I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable >> metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. >> >> Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". > > Sorry Gale but that is totally irrelevant. We don't vote on bugs. Bugs > are things that happen by accident and require fixing. Votes don't > come into it. > >> Some people >> even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the >> most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. > > No it's probably not, but Joel has put forward a separate patch for > that. We are now discussing the issue of allowing users to export > files without metadata. > > In case anyone missed my previous post I have raised the question of > disabling Metadata on the forum, which opens up the discussion to a > wider audience that just the devel/QA lists. However if you would also > like to discuss the issue on QA then I'd suggest that you start a new > topic there so that we don't confuse this question with other issues > about metadata. > > >> >> Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that >> people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. >> Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea >> that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor >> in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor >> makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). >> >> That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead >> make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) >> a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. >> If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > > Basing a design decision on a bug workaround is wrong and I strongly > oppose doing so. > > Steve > > >> >> >>> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only >>> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is >>> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely >>> more than a single export command at the end of a chain... >> >> The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no >> metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. >> >> I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as >> long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it >> could be seen. >> >> >> >> Gale >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>>> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >>>> From: ste...@gm... >>>> To: aud...@li... >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>> >>>> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>>>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>>>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>>>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>>>>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>>>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>>>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >>>>> >>>>> OK thanks. I'll try both. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>>>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>>>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >>>>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >>>>> >>>>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >>>>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >>>>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >>>>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >>>>> >>>>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >>>>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >>>>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >>>>> >>>>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >>>>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>>>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>>>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>>>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>>>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for thinking about that. >>>>> >>>>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >>>>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >>>>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >>>>> >>>>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >>>> >>>> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >>>> Steve >>>> >>>>> >>>>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >>>>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>>>>> From: ga...@au... >>>>>>> To: aud...@li... >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gale >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gale >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-08-20 14:41:39
|
Thanks Joel, but neither of those patches are building for me on Linux. I expect that the problem is trivial, but as we are now going into a release cycle can I suggest that we come back to this after 2.0.4 release? Steve On 19 August 2013 21:18, Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> wrote: > Hello Gale, Hello Steve, > > I have had a look to the bug 551 described by Gale. > > In fact this is not a bug, the metadata is just not saved from a previous > edition to the next. > > There is a very simple way to fix this. > At start ExportMultiple uses tags stored in the project: > > " // copy project metadata to start with > setting.filetags = *(mProject->GetTags()); > " > ==> Storing the tags in the project when leaving the Metadata editor is a > easy way to recover them for the next time slice. > > You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch". This > is a very short patch. > > But this solution has two drawbacks: > - it opens the Metadata editor for every time slice and i think this is a > nuisance. > - Although declared as "read only" the "Title" and the "Track" fields can > still be edited (at least on Windows). The modifications are accepted but > not taken into account, this is confusing. > > ==> I have developed another solution: > - The Metadata editor is opened only once. > - A modification to the "Title" or to the "Track" fields are taken into > account (but they do not modify the "labelx" file names. > > You will find this solution in the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch". > > This last patch only modifies the "ExportMultiple.cpp" file. > Therefore installing the first patch "bug551_simple_fix0.patch" is not > necessary to experiment this second patch. > > REMARK: this last patch only modifies the method "ExportMultipleByLabel" > used in the example described by Gale. I did not yet fix the method > "ExportMultipleByTrack". This is almost the same, but i will do this only > if the patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix0.patch" is preferred. > > Best regards, > > Joel > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:55:24 +0100 > > From: ste...@gm... > > To: aud...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 > metadata in WAV files) > > > > On 16 August 2013 17:06, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > >> > >> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > >> | Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:56:42 +0200 > >> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 > metadata in WAV files) > >>> I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: > just tell me! > >>> > >>> As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the > Metadata Edition dialog, > >>> because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look > to the metadata before > >>> exporting. > >> > >> Sorry this is turning into a long discussion. Perhaps we should > >> move "where to implement a no metadata choice" to -quality if it > >> needs much debate. > > > > That might have been a good idea before raising more contentious issues. > > > >> > >> I really doubt giving Metadata Editor a checkbox to disable > >> metadata is a good idea until we decide how to fix bug 551. > >> > >> Fixing 551 has many more votes than "no metadata". > > > > Sorry Gale but that is totally irrelevant. We don't vote on bugs. Bugs > > are things that happen by accident and require fixing. Votes don't > > come into it. > > > >> Some people > >> even go back to 1.2 because of 551. "No metadata" is not the > >> most effective fix for the iPod Classic problem IMO. > > > > No it's probably not, but Joel has put forward a separate patch for > > that. We are now discussing the issue of allowing users to export > > files without metadata. > > > > In case anyone missed my previous post I have raised the question of > > disabling Metadata on the forum, which opens up the discussion to a > > wider audience that just the devel/QA lists. However if you would also > > like to discuss the issue on QA then I'd suggest that you start a new > > topic there so that we don't confuse this question with other issues > > about metadata. > > > > > >> > >> Due to bug 551 we've had to recommend in the Manual that > >> people disable showing the Metadata Editor in Preferences. > >> Because of that, people get the reasonable (but wrong) idea > >> that they could disable metadata by turning off Metadata Editor > >> in Preferences. Even the Manual says that hiding Metadata Editor > >> makes Audacity not write metadata (I'll fix that). > >> > >> That's why I think the most intuitive approach may be to instead > >> make hiding Metadata Editor (thereby killing metadata export) > >> a choice at the Export/Export Selection/Export Multiple step. > >> If you don't want metadata, why show the editor? > > > > Basing a design decision on a bug workaround is wrong and I strongly > > oppose doing so. > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > >> > >>> For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only > >>> applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is > >>> not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely > >>> more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > >> > >> The use case I gave is not that uncommon so I think a no > >> metadata choice for each format is more flexible and intuitive. > >> > >> I don't object to having a "No Metadata" command instead, as > >> long as it was at the top of the "Choose command" list where it > >> could be seen. > >> > >> > >> > >> Gale > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------- > >>>> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 > >>>> From: ste...@gm... > >>>> To: aud...@li... > >>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to > ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>> > >>>> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > >>>>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 > >>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to > ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag > is > >>>>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the > >>>>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. > >>>>>> This is the best solution for streaming. > >>>>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created > a patch > >>>>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. > >>>>> > >>>>> OK thanks. I'll try both. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the > >>>>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this > >>>>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit > >>>>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. > >>>>> > >>>>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no > metadata" > >>>>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is > >>>>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the > >>>>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not > appear. > >>>>> > >>>>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to > >>>>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that > >>>>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. > >>>>> > >>>>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us > >>>>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands > >>>>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to > >>>>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to > add > >>>>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the > chain > >>>>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for thinking about that. > >>>>> > >>>>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another > >>>>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that > >>>>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV > metadata)? > >>>>> > >>>>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. > >>>> > >>>> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", > >>>> Steve > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only > >>>>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Gale > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> ---------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 > >>>>>>> From: ga...@au... > >>>>>>> To: aud...@li... > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to > ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> > >>>>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 > >>>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to > ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) > >>>>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> > wrote: > >>>>>>> [...] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create > >>>>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround > for > >>>>>>>>> the problem. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice > >>>>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more > >>>>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and > would solve > >>>>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that > would be > >>>>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. > If it also > >>>>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be > blindingly > >>>>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata > is not > >>>>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into > multi-track > >>>>>>>> projects if audio is imported). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. > >>>>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic > iPod > >>>>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata > >>>>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue > after > >>>>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the > >>>>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in > >>>>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: > >>>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551 . > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in > >>>>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor > >>>>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I > >>>>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. > >>>>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so > >>>>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Gale > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the > optional chunks > >>>>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end > >>>>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom > >>>>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. > >>>>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch > version > >>>>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Gale > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> _______________________________________________ > >> audacity-devel mailing list > >> aud...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > audacity-devel mailing list > > aud...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and > AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, > analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. > Visit us today! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > > |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-20 17:34:59
Attachments:
bug551_singleEdit_fix1.patch
|
Steve wrote ________________________________ > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:41:30 +0100 > From: ste...@gm... > To: aud...@li... > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 > > Thanks Joel, but neither of those patches are building for me on Linux. > I expect that the problem is trivial, but as we are now going into a > release cycle can I suggest that we come back to this after 2.0.4 > release? > ==> Hello Steve, here is the modified "bug551_singleEdit_fix" patch. It seems that wxWidgets "Printf" does not accept wxStrings on Unix... the strings must be converted to standard "c" strings. I completely agree that this patch must not be part of the next 2.04 release. It is still at the first test level and the bug 551 is not so important. A more important patch is the one that avoids displaying "Chinese" characters in mp3 tags. This patch modifies "libid3tag". I will re-introduce it. Best regards, Joel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-21 01:12:39
|
| From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> | Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:34:52 +0200 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 > Steve wrote > ________________________________ > > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:41:30 +0100 > > From: ste...@gm... > > To: aud...@li... > > Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 > > > > Thanks Joel, but neither of those patches are building for me on Linux. > > I expect that the problem is trivial, but as we are now going into a > > release cycle can I suggest that we come back to this after 2.0.4 > > release? > > > > ==> > > Hello Steve, > > here is the modified "bug551_singleEdit_fix" patch. It seems that wxWidgets > "Printf" does not accept wxStrings on Unix... the strings must be > converted to standard "c" strings. > > I completely agree that this patch must not be part of the next 2.04 release. > It is still at the first test level Thanks very much for looking at this, Joel. I agree it would be a distraction to make this part of 2.0.4, but I'll try your latest patch "bug551_singleEdit_fix1.patch" and "bug551_simple_fix0.patch" when I can. Although the main use case is having Metadata Editor only appear once but still pass metadata through to all the files, when people record compilation albums (where the metadata is different for each file), they actually want Metadata Editor to pop up for each file! So it isn't an either/or. We have to accommodate both use cases. > and the bug 551 is not so important. Bug 551 should probably be retitled, or there should be some global dependent enhancement issue about the whole user experience of Export Multiple with or without metadata. On complaint count, it's a very significant problem (hence why I cited votes). It's made worse by it being hard for users to figure how to workaround it. They have to (1) find the Import / Export Preferences (2) find File > Metadata Editor and realise they have to enter the metadata before export. Gale > A more important patch is the one that avoids displaying "Chinese" characters in mp3 tags. > This patch modifies "libid3tag". I will re-introduce it. > > Best regards, > > Joel |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-21 11:45:37
Attachments:
bug551_fix_for_labels_and_tracks_1.patch
|
Gale wrote: > Although the main use case is having Metadata Editor only appear > once but still pass metadata through to all the files, when people > record compilation albums (where the metadata is different for > each file), they actually want Metadata Editor to pop up for each > file! > > So it isn't an either/or. We have to accommodate both use cases. > ==> Applying the two patches together must fit this need. To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single one. (without modifying them). This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the first Track Number. He can even modify the track number positionning: in front or after the Title. But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. Best regards, Joel |
From: Peter S. <pet...@ya...> - 2013-08-21 12:29:38
|
Joel wrote: >To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single one. (without modifying them). >This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the first Track Number. He can >even modify the track number positionning: in front or after the Title. >But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. > >I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. Joel, this is very unlikely to suit our many users who transcribe LPs and tapes. The normal method for doing this is to record the whole LP/tape and then use labels to define the track starts - so for multi-artist compilation albums your "dual implementation" will not be satisfactory. Peter. Peter Sampson Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 ________________________________ From: Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> To: "aud...@li..." <aud...@li...> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 Gale wrote: > Although the main use case is having Metadata Editor only appear > once but still pass metadata through to all the files, when people > record compilation albums (where the metadata is different for > each file), they actually want Metadata Editor to pop up for each > file! > > So it isn't an either/or. We have to accommodate both use cases. > ==> Applying the two patches together must fit this need. To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single one. (without modifying them). This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the first Track Number. He can even modify the track number positionning: in front or after the Title. But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. Best regards, Joel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. Visit us today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing list aud...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-22 07:30:38
Attachments:
bug551_fix_for_labels_and_tracks_2.patch
|
Peter wrote: > Joel, this is very unlikely to suit our many users who transcribe LPs > and tapes. > > The normal method for doing this is to record the whole LP/tape > and then use labels to define the track starts - so for multi-artist > compilation albums your "dual implementation" will not be satisfactory. > > Peter. Hello Peter here is a version which pops the Metadata editor for every label. The user can edit all the tags, the Title and the Track included. He can do this for each time slice. You are right, this is more flexible. Best regards, > > Joel > > ________________________________ >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 05:29:30 -0700 >> From: pet...@ya... >> To: aud...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 >> >> Joel wrote: >>>To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single >> one. (without modifying them). >>>This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor >> appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the >> first Track Number. He can>even modify the track number positionning: >> in front or after the Title. >>>But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. >>> >>>I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. >> >> Joel, this is very unlikely to suit our many users who transcribe LPs >> and tapes. >> >> The normal method for doing this is to record the whole LP/tape >> and then use labels to define the track starts - so for multi-artist >> compilation albums your "dual implementation" will not be satisfactory. >> >> Peter. >> >> Peter Sampson >> Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 >> Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 >> >> From: Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >> To: "aud...@li..." >> <aud...@li...> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 >> >> Gale wrote: >> >>> Although the main use case is having Metadata Editor only appear >>> once but still pass metadata through to all the files, when people >>> record compilation albums (where the metadata is different for >>> each file), they actually want Metadata Editor to pop up for each >>> file! >>> >>> So it isn't an either/or. We have to accommodate both use cases. >>> >> >> ==> Applying the two patches together must fit this need. >> To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single one. >> (without modifying them). >> This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor >> appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the >> first Track Number. He can even modify the track number positionning: >> in front or after the Title. >> But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. >> >> I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Joel >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and >> AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, >> analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. >> Visit us today! >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li...<mailto:aud...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and >> AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, >> analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance >> Management. Visit us today! >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing >> list aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2013-08-23 21:19:20
|
| From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> | Thu, 22 Aug 2013 09:30:29 +0200 | Subject: [Audacity-devel] FW: Metadata: bug 551 > Peter wrote: > > > Joel, this is very unlikely to suit our many users who transcribe LPs > > and tapes. > > > > The normal method for doing this is to record the whole LP/tape > > and then use labels to define the track starts - so for multi-artist > > compilation albums your "dual implementation" will not be satisfactory. > > > > Peter. > > > Hello Peter > > here is a version which pops the Metadata editor for every label. > The user can edit all the tags, the Title and the Track included. > He can do this for each time slice. > > You are right, this is more flexible. Hi Joel, Thanks. Passing the metadata through to the next export multiple window must be part of the fix, so I tried the patch. I had to build debug, as explained off list. Export multiple by tracks seemed to be fine but the Track Title (which is automatically generated by each label's contents) isn't correct for the second and subsequent labels. Subsequent Track Titles either get emptied (e.g. if the first label contains "1") or retain the contents of the first label (e.g. if the first label contains "a"). Gale > > ________________________________ > >> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 05:29:30 -0700 > >> From: pet...@ya... > >> To: aud...@li... > >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 > >> > >> Joel wrote: > >>>To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single > >> one. (without modifying them). > >>>This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor > >> appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the > >> first Track Number. He can>even modify the track number positionning: > >> in front or after the Title. > >>>But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. > >>> > >>>I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. > >> > >> Joel, this is very unlikely to suit our many users who transcribe LPs > >> and tapes. > >> > >> The normal method for doing this is to record the whole LP/tape > >> and then use labels to define the track starts - so for multi-artist > >> compilation albums your "dual implementation" will not be satisfactory. > >> > >> Peter. > >> > >> Peter Sampson > >> Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 > >> Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 > >> > >> From: Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> > >> To: "aud...@li..." > >> <aud...@li...> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:45 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata: bug 551 > >> > >> Gale wrote: > >> > >>> Although the main use case is having Metadata Editor only appear > >>> once but still pass metadata through to all the files, when people > >>> record compilation albums (where the metadata is different for > >>> each file), they actually want Metadata Editor to pop up for each > >>> file! > >>> > >>> So it isn't an either/or. We have to accommodate both use cases. > >>> > >> > >> ==> Applying the two patches together must fit this need. > >> To make things easier i have combined the two patches in a single one. > >> (without modifying them). > >> This way, when the user exports multiple labels, the Metadata editor > >> appears only once and the user can modify the generic Title and the > >> first Track Number. He can even modify the track number positionning: > >> in front or after the Title. > >> But when he exports multiple tracks, the Metadata pops at every track. > >> > >> I think this dual implementation should satisfy most users. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Joel > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and > >> AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, > >> analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. > >> Visit us today! > >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> _______________________________________________ > >> audacity-devel mailing list > >> aud...@li...<mailto:aud...@li...> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and > >> AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, > >> analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance > >> Management. Visit us today! > >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing > >> list aud...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |
From: Joel B. <bo...@ho...> - 2013-08-24 18:22:46
Attachments:
bug551_fix_for_labels_and_tracks_3.patch
|
Gale wrote: > > Export multiple by tracks seemed to be fine but the Track Title > (which is automatically generated by each label's contents) isn't > correct for the second and subsequent labels. > > Subsequent Track Titles either get emptied (e.g. if the first label > contains "1") or retain the contents of the first label (e.g. if the > first label contains "a"). > > Hello Gale, yes, this corresponds to the way that is implemented: when the Title includes a digit it must also include at least one alpha character to determine if the string is pre or post fixed. When the Title has no digit in its header or in its trailer, there is no counter for the Title digit and nor substitution. Only the Track number is incremented. This is valid. This is also useful to split a long audio recording in several time slices, each one with a different Title. I have enhanced the program to be more flexible. Now it also accept a Title string made of a single digit - which will be expanded to 2 digits, 01, 02, ... Anyway, the editor pops up at every time slice and the user can always modify the default Title and the default Track number. This is the main difference compared to the first patch. The only limitation is for an empty Title: it is displayed as empty in the Metadata editor but, finally, this empty title will be replaced by "labelxx" in the final audio file. This occurs outside my patch! Here is the upgraded patch. Best regard, Joel |
From: Peter S. <pet...@ya...> - 2013-08-16 12:44:09
|
Steve wrote: >As a user of Audacity, my preference would be to be able to set it >once, disable the Metadata Editor pop-up, and then forget about it, >because I never use metadata in Audacity. A big +1 to that Like Steve I never use metadata in Audacity - I do that in iTunes once I have exported the file from Audacity. Peter Peter Sampson Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780 Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299 ________________________________ From: Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> To: Audacity-Devel list <aud...@li...> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) On 16 August 2013 12:56, Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> wrote: > Hello Gale, Hello Steve, > > I can implement this check box for disabling the metadata anywhere: just tell me! > > As a USER of Audacity, my own preference is to implement it in the Metadata Edition dialog, because i did not disable the dialog pop up and i always have a look to the metadata before exporting. I seldom click on the "Option" button to get access to the format settings. For me, the default settings are ok: i always use FLAC or PCM format, at 16 bits (I cannot hear any difference between audio tracks at 16 bits or 24 bits!). As a user of Audacity, my preference would be to be able to set it once, disable the Metadata Editor pop-up, and then forget about it, because I never use metadata in Audacity. I don't personally mind where that option is, though if it is in the Metadata Editor then users will stumble across it the first time that they export. > > Now, other users have probably other habitudes. Could the question be posted on the User forum? Yes, good idea. We can do that. Steve > > For batch chains, i agree with Gale that a command which only applies to the next export is a little difficult to explain and it is not intuitive (non markovian process!) ... although there is rarely more than a single export command at the end of a chain... > But i can add this option to every ExportXXX dialog box if you prefer... just tell me! > > Best regards, > > Joel > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 02:26:33 +0100 >> From: ste...@gm... >> To: aud...@li... >> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >> >> On 15 August 2013 22:16, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>> >>> | From Joel Bouchat <bo...@ho...> >>> | Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:00:31 +0200 >>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>> in the last patch that i posted about AIFF tag fixing, the ID3 tag is >>>> at the end, but the other AIFF tags (NAME, AUTH, ANNO) are at the >>>> beginning of the file before the SSND data. >>>> This is the best solution for streaming. >>>> But, since this might be a problem for the iPod,i have also created a patch >>>> where all the tags are at the end (as for a WAV file). >>>> >>>> Here are the two patches together, for experimenting. >>> >>> OK thanks. I'll try both. >>> >>> >>>> Since the "Edit Metadata Tags" dialog pops up when exporting, the >>>> best place to install this option is to add a check box within this >>>> dialog box. I could easily do that. >>> >>> Thanks, though the problem remains that the choice to make "Edit >>> Metadata Tags" appear at export is a currently a Preference. >>> >>> So if anyone turns the metadata dialog off in Prefs, any "no metadata" >>> checkbox it contains will not be so easily found. If that checkbox is >>> off (as it would be by default) then if metadata is stored by the >>> editor it will still be exported even if the dialogue does not appear. >>> >>> So I still think we should move the Pref to show Metadata Editor to >>> the export dialogues to make it easier to access, and make that >>> control also decide if metadata is exported or not. >>> >>> But if you've any input how you would fix bug 551 please let us >>> know your ideas (probably a separate topic). >>> >>> >>>> The problem is different for the "chain" exportation commands >>>> running in batch mode. Adding a check box and an extra parameter to >>>> every "export" command would be tedious. A simpler solution is to add >>>> a new command "No_Metadata" (?) that the user can install in the chain >>>> before an "ExportXXX" command. I could also do that. >>> >>> Thanks for thinking about that. >>> >>> What if a user wanted metadata for one format and not for another >>> (e.g. metadata for an MP3/MP4 file but none for a WAV copy that >>> was meant for CD burning or for an app that didn't read WAV metadata)? >>> >>> It would be tedious to make two Chains for that case. >> >> "Tedious" is a lot better than "impossible", >> Steve >> >>> >>> You could do it by making a "No Metadata" command in a Chain only >>> apply to formats above that command, but would it be intuitive? >>> >>> >>> >>> Gale >>> >>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:06:12 +0100 >>>>> From: ga...@au... >>>>> To: aud...@li... >>>>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm...> >>>>> | Tue, 13 Aug 2013 23:53:21 +0100 >>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Metadata in RIFF files (was: Back to ID3v2 metadata in WAV files) >>>>>>> On 13 August 2013 22:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> iTunes deletes the optional chunks if you create >>>>>>> an AIFF version of the file, so that is the apparent workaround for >>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My guess is it would be too complicated to offer users a choice >>>>>>> of not exporting certain chunks (where the format exports more >>>>>>> than one chunk for a piece of metadata). >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> An option to disable all metadata need not be confusing, and would solve >>>>>> the problem of tracks not playing on the iPod Classic. All that would be >>>>>> required in the interface is a checkbox in the metadata editor. If it also >>>>>> greyed out the text fields in the editor then it would be blindingly >>>>>> obvious. This would also be useful in other cases where metadata is not >>>>>> wanted (it is all too easy for unwanted metadata to slip into multi-track >>>>>> projects if audio is imported). >>>>> >>>>> Agreed that an option to disable all metadata is not confusing. >>>>> It's an option we should have in any case IMO. >>>>> >>>>> "No metadata" is only a partial solution to the current Classic iPod >>>>> issue. Users won't be aware until they search online that metadata >>>>> is the reason for the iPod problem, so it only fixes the issue after >>>>> it happens. It's still a nuisance for those who want to add the >>>>> metadata in Audacity rather than elsewhere. >>>>> >>>>> Sorting out how to handle "no metadata" might be better done in >>>>> the context of fixing bug 551: >>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551. >>>>> >>>>> That might mean a "no metadata" checkbox would be better in >>>>> the export dialogues as a control to show Metadata Editor >>>>> (instead of having a Preference to do that). >>>>> >>>>> I'll try Joel's patch(es) when I can (thanks to him). As far as I >>>>> know there is no problem with ID3 at the end of AIFF files. >>>>> iTunes leaves ID3 at the end after rewriting the file, so >>>>> probably it's best not to move ID3 to the top. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gale >>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I guess to limit a regression risk we could kill the optional chunks >>>>>>> only when encoding on Mac OS X. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I noticed in Joel's patch that moves the LIST chunk to the end >>>>>>> and adds "PAD ", the optional chunks now appear at the bottom >>>>>>> of the file as well as at the top. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also that patch writes two SSND chunks if there is a LIST chunk. >>>>>>> I think that might be a problem, so I'll retest with the patch version >>>>>>> that does not duplicate the LIST chunk. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gale >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >>> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >>> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >>> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> audacity-devel mailing list >>> aud...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! >> It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. >> Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. >> Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> audacity-devel mailing list >> aud...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! > It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. > Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. > Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get 100% visibility into Java/.NET code with AppDynamics Lite! It's a free troubleshooting tool designed for production. Get down to code-level detail for bottlenecks, with <2% overhead. Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897031&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ audacity-devel mailing list aud...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |