visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] How to draw a polyhedron?

[Phlip <ppl...@om...>]

Phlip sez:

> I'm auditioning 3D graphics libraries, and need to demonstrate VPython
> showing an Archimedian Solid. I can't find an examples on the net; what's
> the most rudimentary one possible?

Here ya go:

from visual import frame, rate, convex

points = ( (0, 0.771, 0.257), (0.727, 0.257, -0.257), (
			0.364, 0.514, -0.514), (0, 0.257, 0.771), (
			-0.364, 0.514, 0.514), (-0.364, -0.514, -0.514), (
			0, -0.771, 0.257), (-0.727, -0.257, 0.257), (
			0.364, 0.514, 0.514), (0.727, -0.257, -0.257), (
			0.727, 0.257, 0.257), (0, 0.257, -0.771), (
			0.727, -0.257, 0.257), (-0.364, 0.514, -0.514), (
			-0.727, 0.257, 0.257), (0.364, -0.514, -0.514), (
			-0.727, -0.257, -0.257), (0, 0.771, -0.257), (
			0, -0.771, -0.257), (-0.727, 0.257, -0.257), (
			0, -0.257, -0.771), (0.364, -0.514, 0.514), (
			-0.364, -0.514, 0.514), (0, -0.257, 0.771), )

f = frame()
a = convex(color = (0.9,0.1,0.8), frame = f)

for t in points:
    a.append(pos = t)

while 1:
    rate(100)
    f.rotate(angle=0.01)


Next question - can we make it glass? ;-)

-- 
  Phlip
     http://www.greencheese.org/DontPlanDesigns
"I love deadlines.  I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly
by." -- Douglas Adams

Re: [Visualpython-users] OSX X11 VPython

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

The reason I haven't yet attempted to post information on compiling from 
source is that I have been unable to do this myself without an unacceptably 
difficult procedure. What I had to do was wipe out everything (including 
X11) and spend many many hours installing source versions of EVERYTHING 
(including X11, Python, etc.) and many hours compiling everything. I have 
been unable to determine why this is necessary; in principle I don't see 
why I shouldn't be able to compile against the include files that come with 
the binary distributions of X11 etc., but I get strange loader errors.

In my conversations with Steve Spicklemire, who was the one who figured out 
how to compile and run VPython on Mac OSX, it isn't quite clear to me 
whether he did succeed in compiling Visual without a full source 
installation. Steve?

Mark Tomczak's experience in a sense is similar to mine: some strange 
sensitivity to exact details, in my case with source, in his case with 
binaries. I have no idea what's going on. I'm relieved to hear that Frank 
Wolfs was able to install without having to reinstall X11.

Bruce Sherwood

--On Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:06 AM -0500 Steve Spicklemire 
<st...@sp...> wrote:

> My guess is you'll need to recompile VPython with your setup. Bruce,
> Maybe the source for the MacOSX version could be including in the
> installer so folks with different X setups could build their own? Mark,
> you might just try to download the linux sources, but use this patch to
> fixup the Makefile for MacOSX:

Re: [Visualpython-users] OSX X11 VPython

[Frank W. P. a. A. U of R <wo...@pa...>]

I have installed VPython for OSX without installing the X11 software
listed in the docs since I already have XDarwin installed.  I am able to
run the demo without a problem.  I thus do not believe that your problem
is related to you not intalling the X11 tools referred to in the
installation.

Best regards, Frank Wolfs


On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Mark Theodore Tomczak wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I recently tried to install the X11 build of VPython for OSX, and I'm
> wondering how dependent upon the exact X11 configuration it is. I've
> followed the directions provided on the website, with the exception of
> installing the X11 system, because I already have it installed and
> updated. I'm using XDarwin 1.0.4 and the fvwm2 window manager, and am
> extremely reluctant to de-install it or to make drastic changes to it (I
> require it for other programs on my system, and am somewhat limited in
> my disk space so I can't add oroboros to the setup).
>
> After a few attempts, everything seemed to update and install correctly;
> however, when I attempted to run the bounce2.py demo (after running
> visual-demos), the following error was generated:
>
>
> Visual-2002-01-10
> Traceback (innermost last)
>    File "/sw/share/python-visual/Programs/Demos/bounce2.py", line 1, in ?
>      from visual import *
> ImportError: Failure linking new module
>
> Program disconnected.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark T. Tomczak
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 03:58 , visualpython-users-
> re...@li... wrote:
>
> > Send Visualpython-users mailing list submissions to
> > 	vis...@li...
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > 	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > 	vis...@li...
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	vis...@li...
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Visualpython-users digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. VPython for X11 on Mac OSX (Bruce Sherwood)
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:03:32 -0400
> > From: Bruce Sherwood <ba...@an...>
> > To: vis...@li...
> > Subject: [Visualpython-users] VPython for X11 on Mac OSX
> >
> > At http://vpython.org you will now find installation instructions for
> > VPython running on the X11 graphics system on Mac OSX. Many thanks to
> > Steve
> > Spicklemire for explaining how to compile and run VPython in this
> > environment. This version includes the full IDLE capabilities formerly
> > available only on Windows and Linux.
> >
> > It is unfortunate that the installation instructions are quite lengthy.
> > We
> > would much appreciate reports on how well they work, and how to improve
> > them.
> >
> > Some context: There is still available at http://vpython.org a version
> > for
> > Mac OS 9, which does not have a working VPython version of IDLE,
> > because we
> > were unable to solve the problems of socket communication in launching a
> > run. You have to use some other text editor, save the file, and drag the
> > file onto the interpreter, which is much less convenient than the
> > single-key edit/run cycle available in IDLE. The new OSX version takes
> > advantage of the fact that if you install the X11 graphics system on
> > OSX,
> > the Mac Unix environment is quite similar to Linux.
> >
> > It would be desirable to have a non-X11 version of VPython, one which
> > not
> > require installing X11. What is needed is for someone knowledgeable
> > about
> > OSX to write Carbon or Cocoa code to create a window and process mouse
> > and
> > keyboard events, with OpenGL doing the graphics in that window. Any
> > volunteers?
> >
> > Bruce Sherwood
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Visualpython-users mailing list
> > Vis...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> >
> >
> > End of Visualpython-users Digest
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>


_____________________________________________________________________

 Frank L. H. Wolfs                  e-mail: wo...@pa...
 Department of Physics and Astronomy
 University of Rochester
 B&L 203A, RC Box 270171                      fax: (585) 275 - 8527
 500 Wilson Blvd.                           phone: (585) 275 - 4937
 Rochester, NY 14627              http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/

Re: [Visualpython-users] OSX X11 VPython

[Steve S. <st...@sp...>]

Hi Mark,

	My guess is you'll need to recompile VPython with your setup. 
Bruce, Maybe the source for the MacOSX version could be including in the 
installer so folks with different X setups could build their own? Mark, 
you might just try to download the linux sources, but use this patch to 
fixup the Makefile for MacOSX:

[Visualpython-users] OSX X11 VPython

[Mark T. T. <mto...@an...>]

Greetings!

I recently tried to install the X11 build of VPython for OSX, and I'm 
wondering how dependent upon the exact X11 configuration it is. I've 
followed the directions provided on the website, with the exception of 
installing the X11 system, because I already have it installed and 
updated. I'm using XDarwin 1.0.4 and the fvwm2 window manager, and am 
extremely reluctant to de-install it or to make drastic changes to it (I 
require it for other programs on my system, and am somewhat limited in 
my disk space so I can't add oroboros to the setup).

After a few attempts, everything seemed to update and install correctly; 
however, when I attempted to run the bounce2.py demo (after running 
visual-demos), the following error was generated:


Visual-2002-01-10
Traceback (innermost last)
   File "/sw/share/python-visual/Programs/Demos/bounce2.py", line 1, in ?
     from visual import *
ImportError: Failure linking new module

Program disconnected.

Any suggestions?

Sincerely,
Mark T. Tomczak

On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 03:58 , visualpython-users-
re...@li... wrote:

> Send Visualpython-users mailing list submissions to
> 	vis...@li...
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	vis...@li...
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	vis...@li...
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Visualpython-users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. VPython for X11 on Mac OSX (Bruce Sherwood)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:03:32 -0400
> From: Bruce Sherwood <ba...@an...>
> To: vis...@li...
> Subject: [Visualpython-users] VPython for X11 on Mac OSX
>
> At http://vpython.org you will now find installation instructions for
> VPython running on the X11 graphics system on Mac OSX. Many thanks to 
> Steve
> Spicklemire for explaining how to compile and run VPython in this
> environment. This version includes the full IDLE capabilities formerly
> available only on Windows and Linux.
>
> It is unfortunate that the installation instructions are quite lengthy. 
> We
> would much appreciate reports on how well they work, and how to improve
> them.
>
> Some context: There is still available at http://vpython.org a version 
> for
> Mac OS 9, which does not have a working VPython version of IDLE, 
> because we
> were unable to solve the problems of socket communication in launching a
> run. You have to use some other text editor, save the file, and drag the
> file onto the interpreter, which is much less convenient than the
> single-key edit/run cycle available in IDLE. The new OSX version takes
> advantage of the fact that if you install the X11 graphics system on 
> OSX,
> the Mac Unix environment is quite similar to Linux.
>
> It would be desirable to have a non-X11 version of VPython, one which 
> not
> require installing X11. What is needed is for someone knowledgeable 
> about
> OSX to write Carbon or Cocoa code to create a window and process mouse 
> and
> keyboard events, with OpenGL doing the graphics in that window. Any
> volunteers?
>
> Bruce Sherwood
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
>
>
> End of Visualpython-users Digest
>

Re: [Visualpython-users] How to embed into Tk?

[Phlip <ppl...@om...>]

[Why is this list server set so Reply goes to individuals instead of the 
list? That is so lame!!]

Bruce Sherwood sez:

> This is only an educated guess, but I don't think it's possible to put a
> Visual display into a Tkinter window, because Visual uses OpenGL for its
> graphics.

PyOpenGL does it via TOGL.

The ideal library for us would have all VPython's features, the ability to 
just render into a Tk window and eat user inputs, and an easy pass-thru 
straight to PyOpenGL.

Yes, I know VPython wraps OpenGL directly. My problem is I have colleagues 
who are too smart for their own good; they will cheerfully code some complex 
geometric display using raw PyOpenGL calls in hideously long functions, not 
recognizing Assembler for what it is. I want to support their efforts, but I 
also want objects!

-- 
  Phlip
   http://www.greencheese.org/PhilosophyBrethrenThree
  --  Friends don't let friends use Closed Source software  --

Re: [Visualpython-users] How to embed into Tk?

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

This is only an educated guess, but I don't think it's possible to put a 
Visual display into a Tkinter window, because Visual uses OpenGL for its 
graphics.

Bruce Sherwood

--On Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:44 PM -0700 Phlip <ppl...@om...> 
wrote:

> I'm auditioning 3D graphics libraries, and need to demonstrate VPython
> grafted into a Frame. The rest of our UI is Tkinter (and uses
> multidimensional data), and a window floating over it revealing this data
> would damage the user's experience. I can't find an examples on the net;
> so  (once again ;-) what's the most rudimentary one possible?

[Visualpython-users] How to embed into Tk?

[Phlip <ppl...@om...>]

VPython users:

I'm auditioning 3D graphics libraries, and need to demonstrate VPython
grafted into a Frame. The rest of our UI is Tkinter (and uses 
multidimensional data), and a window floating over it revealing this data 
would damage the user's experience. I can't find an examples on the net; so 
(once again ;-) what's the most rudimentary one possible?

-- 
  Phlip
           http://www.greencheese.org/MayorZogg
"Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember that
nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."  -- Oscar Wilde

[Visualpython-users] How to draw a polyhedron?

[Phlip <ppl...@om...>]

VPython users:

I'm auditioning 3D graphics libraries, and need to demonstrate VPython 
showing an Archimedian Solid. I can't find an examples on the net; what's the 
most rudimentary one possible?

-- 
  Phlip
     http://www.greencheese.org/SpringPicnicZero
  --  "In my experience, the customer doesn't know what he wants
       until you don't give it to him." --David Brady  --

[Visualpython-users] VPython running on SGI

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

Marcelo Garcia compiled and ran VPython on an SGI machine. He started from 
the Linux installer package, and the Linux makefile. Thanks, Marcelo!

I've put these comments on the VPython web site.

--On Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:01 PM -0300 "Marcelo M. Garcia" 
<mmg...@us...> wrote:

>   Finally vpython is running on SGI.
>
>   I installed python2.2, Numerical Python in a canonical way: make, make
> install, etc. And the rest: gtk, gtkgl, gcc, gmake are packages from SGI
> (http://freeware.sgi.com)
>
>   I had to change the xgl.h to include the full path to gtk/gtkglarea.h,
> wich is /usr/freeware/include/gtkgl/gtkglarea.h. I also comment the lines
> that install the rpm's and numpy in the 'install' script file.
>
>   I think that is it. Any question or comment write to me.

[Visualpython-users] VPython for X11 on Mac OSX

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

At http://vpython.org you will now find installation instructions for 
VPython running on the X11 graphics system on Mac OSX. Many thanks to Steve 
Spicklemire for explaining how to compile and run VPython in this 
environment. This version includes the full IDLE capabilities formerly 
available only on Windows and Linux.

It is unfortunate that the installation instructions are quite lengthy. We 
would much appreciate reports on how well they work, and how to improve 
them.

Some context: There is still available at http://vpython.org a version for 
Mac OS 9, which does not have a working VPython version of IDLE, because we 
were unable to solve the problems of socket communication in launching a 
run. You have to use some other text editor, save the file, and drag the 
file onto the interpreter, which is much less convenient than the 
single-key edit/run cycle available in IDLE. The new OSX version takes 
advantage of the fact that if you install the X11 graphics system on OSX, 
the Mac Unix environment is quite similar to Linux.

It would be desirable to have a non-X11 version of VPython, one which not 
require installing X11. What is needed is for someone knowledgeable about 
OSX to write Carbon or Cocoa code to create a window and process mouse and 
keyboard events, with OpenGL doing the graphics in that window. Any 
volunteers?

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Old version

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

I got a request for a Windows version of VPython for the older Python 2.1. 
I found that I accidentally had such an installer in an old folder, so I've 
put it on the Windows download page. In the future we'll try to keep older 
versions available for such needs.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] Re: Windows install trouble

[Kevin C. <kj...@gr...>]

FYI: So sayeth www.python.org:

    "Windows users may also be interested in Mark Hammond's win32all: a 
    collection of Windows-specific extensions including COM support and
    Pythonwin, an IDE built using Windows components"

On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> The Python 2.2 installer for Windows does not install Numeric. (I don't 
> know what "win32all-146.exe" is.) The VPython installer does install 
> Numeric (because Visual needs it, and because it is useful in the kinds of 
> programs that VPython is good for -- e.g. my gas.py demo), so after 
> installing VPython you should see Numeric in the site-packages directory.
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> --On Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:33 AM -0500 "Kjell A. Tengesdal" 
> <kt...@ua...> wrote:
> 
> > I tried running your code snippet below. I am still getting the same
> > import error. I have  completely uninstalled the program and reinstalled
> > python 2.2.1.c and win32all- 146.exe. But I still get the same message.
> > Now I cant find anything labelled numeric  in the site packages
> > directory. So what am I doing wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> 

-- 
 Kevin Cole, RHCE, Linux Admin  |  E-mail:  kj...@gr...
 Gallaudet Research Institute   |  WWW:     http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/
 Hall Memorial Bldg  S-419      |  Voice:   (202) 651-5135
 Washington, D.C.  20002-3695   |  FAX:     (202) 651-5746

Re: [Visualpython-users] Re: Windows install trouble

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

The Python 2.2 installer for Windows does not install Numeric. (I don't 
know what "win32all-146.exe" is.) The VPython installer does install 
Numeric (because Visual needs it, and because it is useful in the kinds of 
programs that VPython is good for -- e.g. my gas.py demo), so after 
installing VPython you should see Numeric in the site-packages directory.

Bruce Sherwood

--On Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:33 AM -0500 "Kjell A. Tengesdal" 
<kt...@ua...> wrote:

> I tried running your code snippet below. I am still getting the same
> import error. I have  completely uninstalled the program and reinstalled
> python 2.2.1.c and win32all- 146.exe. But I still get the same message.
> Now I cant find anything labelled numeric  in the site packages
> directory. So what am I doing wrong?

[Visualpython-users] Re: Windows install trouble

[Kjell A. T. <kt...@ua...>]

I tried running your code snippet below. I am still getting the same import error. I have 
completely uninstalled the program and reinstalled python 2.2.1.c and win32all-
146.exe. But I still get the same message. Now I cant find anything labelled numeric 
in the site packages directory. So what am I doing wrong?
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:17:29 -0400
> From: Bruce Sherwood <ba...@an...>
> To: vis...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] Windows install trouble
> 
> Presumably you find Numeric in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages? I can't think 
> of a reason why Python can't find it.
> 
> It might be informative to see what happens if you try to run the following 
> program, without invoking visual:
> 
> from Numeric import *
> a = array([1,2])
> print a
> 
> Bruce Sherwood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --__--__--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Visualpython-users mailing list
> Vis...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> 
> 
> End of Visualpython-users Digest
> 




Kjell Tengesdal
University of Arkansas
Department of Physics (PHYS 232)
Fayetteville, AR 72701
(479) 575-7364

"The battle of Iwo Jima has been won. Among the Americans who served on Iwo, uncommon valor was a common
virtue."
     Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, 17 March 1945, CINCPAC Communique No. 300

Re: [Visualpython-users] Windows install trouble

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

Presumably you find Numeric in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages? I can't think 
of a reason why Python can't find it.

It might be informative to see what happens if you try to run the following 
program, without invoking visual:

from Numeric import *
a = array([1,2])
print a

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Windows install trouble

[Kjell A. T. <kt...@ua...>]

	I have just installed the windows version of Python version 2.2.1.C. It seems to 
run fine except when my scripts refer to external modules. When I run them, I get the 
following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\Programs\Demos\bounce.py", line 1, in ?
    from visual import *
  File "C:\PYTHON22\visual\__init__.py", line 11, in ?
    from Numeric import *
ImportError: No module named Numeric

How do I let python know where to find these modules? They do exist, but python 
doesn't know where to look.


Kjell Tengesdal
University of Arkansas
Department of Physics (PHYS 232)
Fayetteville, AR 72701
(479) 575-7364

"When the effective leader is finished with his work, the people say it
happened naturally." -- Lao-Tzu (6th century B.C.), Legendary Chinese
philosopher 

Re: [Visualpython-users] Did I correctly uninstall everything?

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

--On Friday, April 05, 2002 1:33 PM -0500 Kevin Cole 
<kj...@gr...> wrote:

> The VPython install put a whole lot of stuff on the system that I
> already had elsewhere, and failed to install VPython itself.  (I suspect
> it failed because it was anticipating its own flavor of Python 2.2 and
> whatever else would have been installed with that tarball.)

Sorry about that. Since you had already installed Python 2.2, you missed 
seeing the comment at the end of the Python 2.2 installation instructions 
about having to modify the Visual install script if Python 2.2 is in a 
different place. Thanks to your experience, I've moved this comment to the 
start of the VPython installation instructions.

A better installation scheme would be to use the Python distutils 
mechanism, which would put the burden on Python of figuring out where to 
put auxiliary files. David Andersen figured out the basic scheme for this, 
but we haven't yet put together a complete installer based on the distutils 
mechanism.

> I've decided to uninstall for the time being.  So far, I've removed the
> following trees and/or files:
>
>      /usr/local/bin/idle
>      /usr/share/doc/python/*
>      /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/Tools/*
>      /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/visual/*
>      /usr/share/python-visual/*
>
> Did I get everything that the VPython installer tinkered with?

Examining the VPython install file, the only thing I see that you missed is 
/usr/local/bin/visual-demos (an alias to bring up IDLE, pointing at the 
VPython demo programs).

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Did I correctly uninstall everything?

[Kevin C. <kj...@gr...>]

Hi,

I had VPython working okay under Python 1.5.2, but finally, almost
everything I use is becoming 2.2 capable.  So, I decided to switch
VPython as well.  However, as I already had python 2.2 (via RPM)  
installed, I didn't want to reinstall it, and assumed I could just start
with the VPyton tarball.

The VPython install put a whole lot of stuff on the system that I
already had elsewhere, and failed to install VPython itself.  (I suspect
it failed because it was anticipating its own flavor of Python 2.2 and
whatever else would have been installed with that tarball.)

I've decided to uninstall for the time being.  So far, I've removed the
following trees and/or files:

     /usr/local/bin/idle
     /usr/share/doc/python/*
     /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/Tools/*
     /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/visual/*
     /usr/share/python-visual/*

Did I get everything that the VPython installer tinkered with?

Thanx.

[Visualpython-users] (visualpython-users´Ô) µðÁöŻī¸Þ¶ó & ½ºÄ³³Ê Á¤º¸.(È«^º¸)

[¸ô¸¶½ºÅ¸ <ma...@ko...>]

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        <td width="229" height="85" rowspan="2" colspan="4"><p><a href="http://www.umaxmall.co.kr"><img src="http://www.umaxmall.co.kr/shop/mail/mail_1/right.gif" width="229" height="81" border="0"></a></p></td>
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        <td width="108" height="52" colspan="2"><p align="center">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<img
                
      src="http://www.umaxmall.co.kr/shop/mail/mail_1/im_stamp.gif" 
      width="45" height="45" border="0"></p></td>
        <td width="379" height="52" colspan="7"><p align="left" valign="top"><font
             color="black">허락없이 메일을 보내서 죄송합니다. &nbsp;이 메일은 
            </font>웹서핑중, <b>무작위로 추출한것이며</b> E-Mail 주소 외에, 
            다른 정보는 갖고 있지 않습니다. <font color="black">메일 수신을 
            원치 않으시면 </font><font color="red"><b><A 
      href="mailto:di...@ko...?subject=수신거부&amp;body=더이상vis...@li...로 메일을 보내지 마세요..">수신거부</A></b></font><font
             
      color="black">를 해주십시요. 만약 불필요한 정보였다면 사과 드립니다 
            </font></p></td>
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</body>

[Visualpython-users] Mainly Linux

[Bruce S. <ba...@an...>]

There is a new Idle zip file available, of interest mainly to Linux users 
(and there is a new full Linux package incorporating the Idle update).

On Linux there was a several-second delay in closing an Idle window. 
Stephen Gava, who is working on a new version of Idle (starting from Dave 
Scherer's original work), found a fix for this which I've incorporated. The 
fundamental problem seems to be that Python itself is using an older 
version of Tcl/Tk which misses a fix that gets rid of the slow window 
closing. Gava used a work-around in the Idle file EditorWindow.py.

Just in case there are unknown side effects for Linux users, I include in 
the idle_VPython folder the old version of EditorWindow.py as 
EditorWindow_slow_close.py, to which you could revert.

Bruce Sherwood

P.S. I also made the default Idle font size in config-unix.txt be 12 point 
instead of 10, after observing on several Linux and Unix systems running 
X11 that 10 invoked a very small font. I would be interested in comments 
from Linux users about what this default should be.

Re: [Visualpython-users] re: Distributiion

[<art...@rs...>]

>I think Bruce & co. are doing a great job.  It is indeed difficult to
>install on anything other than systems just like the developers have, but
>it's getting a lot better a lot faster.

Definitely not easy.  My original post was in its own way an offer to
pitch in as I could.  If Bruce & co want to focus their approach on the
needs of their immediate audience of physics students - I was offering to
help
devise/maintain a distribution approach more appropriate to a general
audience. The larger and broader the VPython user base, probably the
better for all of us who have an interest in it.

>Speaking from long experience, I can attest that managing a free software
>program is a *lot* of work.  Managing it in coordination with other
>rapidly-changing free software[*] is a lot more work squared.  The more we
>other users can help out with advice for fellow users and with patches,
>the more time the developers can spend on the core visual module.

Again , the broader and more active the the user base - the better off we
all are.

And an important  reward for  undertaking a free software effort is the
recognition of one's efforts from
others who use it and incorporate it into their own work.

Which is why - as a matter of principle - I push the Numeric issue.

When no one is asking for money, there is no reason anyone should be
shortchanged.

Not implying that we are talking about anything more than an unintentional
oversight - which is easy
enough to happen in the heat of battle.  But do you agree that it is only
appropriate to put Numeric up on
the 'VPython includes' marquee?

Art

Re: [Visualpython-users] re: Distributiion

[Andy D. <dou...@la...>]

Just to chime in ---

I think Bruce & co. are doing a great job.  It is indeed difficult to
install on anything other than systems just like the developers have, but
it's getting a lot better a lot faster.

Speaking from long experience, I can attest that managing a free software
program is a *lot* of work.  Managing it in coordination with other
rapidly-changing free software[*] is a lot more work squared.  The more we
other users can help out with advice for fellow users and with patches,
the more time the developers can spend on the core visual module.

-- 
    Andy Dougherty		dou...@la...
    Dept. of Physics
    Lafayette College, Easton PA 18042

[*]For example, consider the (trimmed) output of 
$ ldd cvisualmodule.so 
        libgtk-1.2.so.0 
        libgdk-1.2.so.0 
        libgmodule-1.2.so.0 
        libgthread-1.2.so.0 
        libglib-1.2.so.0 
        libpthread.so.0 
        libdl.so.2 
        libXi.so.6 
        libXext.so.6 
        libX11.so.6 
        libGL.so.1 
        libgtkgl.so.5 
        libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 
        libm.so.6 
        libc.so.6 
        libSM.so.6 
        libICE.so.6 
        libGLU.so.1 
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 

A number of those libraries are still in fairly rapid development with
at least occasional incompatible changes.  Couple that with the huge
variety of Linux installations and distributions and with the
ever-evolving nature of Linux itself, stir in Python evolution for good
measure, and you've potentially got a very big mess.

[Visualpython-users] While we're voicing requests...

[Kevin C. <kj...@gr...>]

Hi,

Not a strong request, but...  It was mentioned in a previous message 
that newbies to Linux often arrive via Red Hat.  Given that, it would 
seem best to direct them to an RPM for any components available in that 
format,  whenever possible.  Personally, I like RPM's because I like 
the way that I can query the RPM database and learn the who, what, why, 
where, when and how of something that I've installed.  It saves me the
bookkeeping headache of trying to remember what the heck something like
/usr/lib/yada-yada.so.0.3.1 came from and is used by.

That said, I don't avoid tarballs, I just prefer the RPM's.  (I know
RPM's aren't without blemish, but generally speaking, they've been more
useful than not for the last several years.)

-- 
 Kevin Cole, RHCE, Linux Admin  |  E-mail:  kj...@gr...
 Gallaudet Research Institute   |  WWW:     http://gri.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/
 Hall Memorial Bldg  S-419      |  Voice:   (202) 651-5135
 Washington, D.C.  20002-3695   |  FAX:     (202) 651-5746

[Visualpython-users] re: Distributiion

[<art...@rs...>]

Bruce -

I appreciate you staying engaged with me on this. Truly.
My onslaughts I am sure are not pleasant to take, and there is
some history to my passions here that have little to do with
you personally (but do involve your institution).

I am a staid guy in real life, probably getting a little
carried away with my Internet crank alter-ego.  But in the
end I still believe that at heart I am a concerned citizen
on issues of education - and we are all playing with tools
and approaches that can in fact really make a difference.
So some passion is appropriate, I think.

That being said, I do think you are still managing to miss
my points.

>... had piously hoped that the exact sequence you describe
>would not be common nor particularly onerous.
>Clearly this pious hope was not true in your case. More below on the sinning....

I think you would know that this scenario is not personal to me.
I am an avid VPython user, and would have no reason to remove it
from my machine.  I am simply stating a very plausible general scenario.
What *is* personal to me is the fact that I don't use idle_VPython at all
but do use standard IDLE quite often when I want to be in interactive mode.
Normally I will be working on something unrelated to VPython. Going to Python
docs is *most* common for me when I am doing something interactive.  Almost by
definition, I am exploring something about which I am unclear.  Help>Python
Documentation and the VPython (of all things) top level help screen pops up.

Ill mannered and wrong from the perspective of someone who is an avid VPython fan.
Probably  outright bizarre to someone who downloaded it with a casual interest.

>It seemed proper to try as much as possible NOT to modify
>idlefork, so that those who want to track its
>progress could continually install newer versions and still have things
>work properly. As I said, "This kludge may well go away when current major
>work is completed by Stephen Gava to make IDLE configurable."

I guess I strongly disagree with your prior decision on which way to go, and your
current decision to let it go on. But as I said - not earth-shaterring.

>Numeric is prominently featured as a separate entity on the VPython
>documentation page, there is a link there to the Numeric web site (though I
>just noticed that we need to update that link, as there is now a
>redirection in place), and the full documentation for Numeric is included.
>What more could we do to acknowledge our debt in an adequate, well-mannered
>way?


Top level headlines from the vpython.org

VPython includes:

the Python programming language

an enhanced version of the Idle interactive development environment

"Visual", a Python module that offers real-time 3D output, and is easily usable by novice programmers


The fact is that (let's say) 95% of what one downloads from the site is
Numeric code, developed and enhanced over years. Yet it is not mentioned
in 'VPython includes'.

Case rested on that point.

And you had previously made the point that there was no harm in overwriting a previous
Numeric install with the big-footed distribution.  Now I uninstall VPython.
What happens to by previous Numeric install.

Have not tested it, but if my surmise is correct -

Case rested on that point.

Art