tuxpaint-devel

[Tuxpaint-devel] An experimental tablet for TuxPaint

[Shih-Chin Y. <sya...@gm...>]

Dear all:
I found Tuxpaint to be a very good software for kids, but it might be a bit
difficult for kids to use mouse to draw on TuxPaint,

I have been working on a technology to offer an economic tablet for kids.
For the prototype, you could see the video demo at

http://www.imareader.com/coopaint.html

The tablet indeed has several distinct features from a Wacom tablet, such as
. Fully transparent;
. No sensor board ;
. Large area;
. Low cost.

I plan to make a product using the technology, but think I had better to do
some market research before doing. Do you think if parents would buy a
$39.99 tablet for kids to explore their creativity using TuxPaint?

I know this is a E-mail list for developers, not for market research. But
since most of you are experts in TuxPaint, so I hope that you don't mind I
ask such a question here.

Best regards,
Shih-Chin

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] An experimental tablet for TuxPaint

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 10:27:36AM +0800, Shih-Chin Yang wrote:
>    Dear all:
>    I found Tuxpaint to be a very good software for kids, but it might be a
>    bit difficult for kids to use mouse to draw on TuxPaint,
> 
>    I have been working on a technology to offer an economic tablet for kids.
>    For the prototype, you could see the video demo at
> 
>    http://www.imareader.com/coopaint.html

WOW!  So I've thought about this a bit, lately.  I'm not sure if you're
familiar with the Koala Pad touchpad for 8-bit computers back in the early
1980s, but after looking at:

  * Wacom drawing tablets
  * Digital Arts & Crafts Studio drawing tablet [a recent product, for Windows]
  * My son's Manga-Doodle magnetic drawing toy

... I started thinking that a much simpler, much cheaper drawing pad should
exist for kids.

It would not need pressure sensitivity, tilt, or multiple inputs.  I figured
that the technology behind the Koala pad (a pressure-sensitive pad that
provided X/Y coordinates -- which you could use with your fingers, and not
just with a stylus -- and a button for 'clicking') would be sufficient.

I'm very curious to learn more about your tablet's features.
Does it do pressure?  Is a stylus required, or can you use your fingers?
What platforms does it (or will it / can it) support?  (Linux?  OS X?)

$39 is a little steep, compared to the $50 or 55 we paid for the
Digital Arts & Crafts Studio (that included software).  But on the
other hand, it looks like you've got an enormous surface area for
drawing compared to the lowest-end Wacom tablets (and your device is
not 'kid-oriented' and goofy, and sounds like it would work with any
software -- the DACS device is meant only for DACS software, though I
hope to change that, some day :^) )


<snip>
>    I plan to make a product using the technology, but think I had better to
>    do some market research before doing. Do you think if parents would buy a
>    $39.99 tablet for kids to explore their creativity using TuxPaint?

Feel free to pose this same question to our 'tuxpaint-users' mailing list.
Also, I assume you don't mind if I share the link to your site, since you've
already posted it here, to a public forum. :)

Thanks, and good luck, and keep in touch!

PS - Have you tested using your device on top of an LCD screen or laptop?
(Since it's transparent, I can see it acting as an alternative to
tablet PCs or 'touchscreens'.)

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] An experimental tablet for TuxPaint

[Shih-Chin Y. <sya...@gm...>]

Hi, Bill:
Many thanks for your  comments.

As a matter of fact, I would like to make the tablet as simple as possible,
but with features like large drawing area, transparent. The tablet would
still require a tethered stylus, but not pressure sensitive.

Even though the prototype work for windows only for now, but with proper
drivers, it could also support Linux, Mac OS etc. And it could work with any
software other than TuxPaint.

What hardware features(buttons) do you think might help to put on the
tablet? Other than a plain transparent board?

Best regards,
Shih-Chin



On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Bill Kendrick <nb...@so...> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 10:27:36AM +0800, Shih-Chin Yang wrote:
> >    Dear all:
> >    I found Tuxpaint to be a very good software for kids, but it might be
> a
> >    bit difficult for kids to use mouse to draw on TuxPaint,
> >
> >    I have been working on a technology to offer an economic tablet for
> kids.
> >    For the prototype, you could see the video demo at
> >
> >    http://www.imareader.com/coopaint.html
>
> WOW!  So I've thought about this a bit, lately.  I'm not sure if you're
> familiar with the Koala Pad touchpad for 8-bit computers back in the early
> 1980s, but after looking at:
>
>  * Wacom drawing tablets
>  * Digital Arts & Crafts Studio drawing tablet [a recent product, for
> Windows]
>  * My son's Manga-Doodle magnetic drawing toy
>
> ... I started thinking that a much simpler, much cheaper drawing pad should
> exist for kids.
>
> It would not need pressure sensitivity, tilt, or multiple inputs.  I
> figured
> that the technology behind the Koala pad (a pressure-sensitive pad that
> provided X/Y coordinates -- which you could use with your fingers, and not
> just with a stylus -- and a button for 'clicking') would be sufficient.
>
> I'm very curious to learn more about your tablet's features.
> Does it do pressure?  Is a stylus required, or can you use your fingers?
> What platforms does it (or will it / can it) support?  (Linux?  OS X?)
>
> $39 is a little steep, compared to the $50 or 55 we paid for the
> Digital Arts & Crafts Studio (that included software).  But on the
> other hand, it looks like you've got an enormous surface area for
> drawing compared to the lowest-end Wacom tablets (and your device is
> not 'kid-oriented' and goofy, and sounds like it would work with any
> software -- the DACS device is meant only for DACS software, though I
> hope to change that, some day :^) )
>
>
> <snip>
> >    I plan to make a product using the technology, but think I had better
> to
> >    do some market research before doing. Do you think if parents would
> buy a
> >    $39.99 tablet for kids to explore their creativity using TuxPaint?
>
> Feel free to pose this same question to our 'tuxpaint-users' mailing list.
> Also, I assume you don't mind if I share the link to your site, since
> you've
> already posted it here, to a public forum. :)
>
> Thanks, and good luck, and keep in touch!
>
> PS - Have you tested using your device on top of an LCD screen or laptop?
> (Since it's transparent, I can see it acting as an alternative to
> tablet PCs or 'touchscreens'.)
>
> --
> -bill!
> bi...@ne...
> http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Tuxpaint-devel mailing list
> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxpaint-devel
>

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] An experimental tablet for TuxPaint

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

(Responding to both -devel and -users.)

On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 02:30:26PM +0800, Shih-Chin Yang wrote:
>    Hi, Bill:
>    Many thanks for your  comments.
> 
>    As a matter of fact, I would like to make the tablet as simple as
>    possible, but with features like large drawing area, transparent. The
>    tablet would still require a tethered stylus, but not pressure sensitive.

Ok, so it's technology closer to a Wacom tablet than a Koala Pad drawing
tablet or a touchscreen (e.g., a CRT at an Automated Teller Machine)


>    Even though the prototype work for windows only for now, but with proper
>    drivers, it could also support Linux, Mac OS etc. And it could work with
>    any software other than TuxPaint.

How does Windows see the device?  I would imagine it would not need to act
much different from a plain pointer input device (like a mouse or trackball).
Is it (going to) connect(ed) by USB?

The Koala Pad on the Atari 8-bit acted as two Paddle controllers
(potentiometers), one representing X, the other Y.  The two buttons on
the Koala Pad acted as Paddle fire buttons (digital on/off).

Once upon a time I had a little device a friend and I made which allowed me
to connect Atari Paddle controllers to a PC's joystick port (the kind you
used to find on sound cards like the SoundBlaster).  I imagine I could have
used the X/Y/Fire of the joystick input on the PC (say, under Linux) to
utilize the Koala Pad.

Unfortunately, at the time, I had no Koala Pad.  And these days, PCs don't
have the old-style analog joystick input.  I've got a StellAdapter
(Atari video game/computer system controller to USB converter), but I don't
recall if it supports Paddle inputs... it may only do joystick
(which were 4 digital values on the Atari).


>    What hardware features(buttons) do you think might help to put on the
>    tablet? Other than a plain transparent board?

Honestly, I don't know!  I think keeping it simple would be the best and
most flexible route.

Have you looked at the Digital Arts and Crafts Studio's drawing tablet?
It includes an assortment of buttons for choosing colors, tools, etc.
I can map most of those to controls within Tux Paint, but really, Tux Paint
can do so much more than the DACS software can (in some ways, at least),
so those buttons are more of a burden. :)

What do others out here think of Shin-Chin's device?

PS - I'd happily accept a prototype to play with. :^D

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] An experimental tablet for TuxPaint

[Shih-Chin Y. <sya...@gm...>]

Hi, Bill:
Thanks for your comments!
Please see my comments below ...

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Bill Kendrick <nb...@so...> wrote:

> (Responding to both -devel and -users.)
>
> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 02:30:26PM +0800, Shih-Chin Yang wrote:
> >    Hi, Bill:
> >    Many thanks for your  comments.
> >
> >    As a matter of fact, I would like to make the tablet as simple as
> >    possible, but with features like large drawing area, transparent. The
> >    tablet would still require a tethered stylus, but not pressure
> sensitive.
>
> Ok, so it's technology closer to a Wacom tablet than a Koala Pad drawing
> tablet or a touchscreen (e.g., a CRT at an Automated Teller Machine)



>
> Y.S.C>  Yes, it is closer to a Wacom tablet.
>
> >    Even though the prototype work for windows only for now, but with
> proper
> >    drivers, it could also support Linux, Mac OS etc. And it could work
> with
> >    any software other than TuxPaint.
>
> How does Windows see the device?  I would imagine it would not need to act
> much different from a plain pointer input device (like a mouse or
> trackball).
> Is it (going to) connect(ed) by USB?


Y.S.C.> For now, it appears as a mouse but with absolute (X,Y) positioning.
And it is connected using USB.

>
>
> The Koala Pad on the Atari 8-bit acted as two Paddle controllers
> (potentiometers), one representing X, the other Y.  The two buttons on
> the Koala Pad acted as Paddle fire buttons (digital on/off).
>
> Once upon a time I had a little device a friend and I made which allowed me
> to connect Atari Paddle controllers to a PC's joystick port (the kind you
> used to find on sound cards like the SoundBlaster).  I imagine I could have
> used the X/Y/Fire of the joystick input on the PC (say, under Linux) to
> utilize the Koala Pad.
>
> Unfortunately, at the time, I had no Koala Pad.  And these days, PCs don't
> have the old-style analog joystick input.  I've got a StellAdapter
> (Atari video game/computer system controller to USB converter), but I don't
> recall if it supports Paddle inputs... it may only do joystick
> (which were 4 digital values on the Atari).
>
>
> >    What hardware features(buttons) do you think might help to put on the
> >    tablet? Other than a plain transparent board?
>
> Honestly, I don't know!  I think keeping it simple would be the best and
> most flexible route.


> Perhaps I should  keep it very simple,  a plain board but  a ON/OFF button
to  solve the conflict  between  mouse and the tablet. Or maybe a  Tux Paint
quick launch  button?

>
>
> Have you looked at the Digital Arts and Crafts Studio's drawing tablet?
> It includes an assortment of buttons for choosing colors, tools, etc.
> I can map most of those to controls within Tux Paint, but really, Tux Paint
> can do so much more than the DACS software can (in some ways, at least),
> so those buttons are more of a burden. :)


Y.S.C. > I saw DACs on Amazon,  but I didn't own  one. Does it work like a
Wacom tablet? Does it have any pressure sensor? To save cost, I probably
won't put those coloring buttons on the board to keep the tablet simple and
smaller.

>
>
> What do others out here think of Shin-Chin's device?
>
> PS - I'd happily accept a prototype to play with. :^D
>

Y.S.C. > I would see if I could arrange it.

>
> -bill!
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
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