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The new release: Decision thread

Andrei
2015-05-05
2015-05-21
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  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-13

    Here's "pos2", screenshot and current source code. (FYI the file changed is src/trigger/render.cpp if you're feeling adventurous.)

     

    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-13
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-13

    I tried just replaceing src/trigger/render.cpp with the new file and re-did make afterwards, but unfortunately didn't encounter any difference.

    In my new screenshot you can see the still distorted dial. The other strage texture errors on the car and the shadow are a result of my probably broken graphics chip.

    An other odd thing: The needle never reaches zero. The lowest value even when standing is 2.

     

    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-13
    • Andrei

      Andrei - 2015-05-13

      I tried just replaceing src/trigger/render.cpp with the new file and re-did make afterwards, but unfortunately didn't encounter any difference.

      There are two "render.cpp" files in the game, be sure to replace the one in src/trigger. (Although I would suggest deleting the entire src folder and extract the new one in its place.)

      Also try cleaning the build first:

      make clean
      make
      

      In my new screenshot you can see the still distorted dial. The other strage texture errors on the car and the shadow are a result of my probably broken graphics chip.

      I didn't get to fix the distorted dial problem yet.

      An other odd thing: The needle never reaches zero. The lowest value even when standing is 2.

      That's normal actually, it was always like this.

       

      Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-13
      • Onsemeliot

        Onsemeliot - 2015-05-13

        Ok, now I replaced the whole src folder and got the proper positioned numbers as well.

        I didn't get to fix the distorted dial problem yet.

        Ok, I thought this was the goal of this new version. (I obviously didn't read your explaination carefully enough.)

        "The needle never reaches zero."
        That's normal actually, it was always like this.

        I guess this is the price for touching things: We look closer at it.

         

        Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-13
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-13

    Ok, I thought this was the goal of this new version.

    Well it is. Right now we're just testing. This new version 0.6.3 still needs at least one more week of work before we can release it. I'm still waiting to see if anyone comes to fix the Autoconf stuff, otherwise we'll all be using my new Makefile for the time being.

    I guess this is the price for touching things: We look closer at it.

    I've seen this happens in version 0.6.0 as well. The RPM at rest is exactly 2000 and that's why the dial shows 2. It would be nice to have a "start/stop engine" key someday but that's not a priority.

    @Iwan I fixed the GNUmakefile, this version shouldn't mess up what it displays. Let me know if it works for you.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-13

    It would be nice to have a "start/stop engine" key someday but that's not a priority.

    Only to get to zero if the car doesn't move? I can't see any advantage in that.

    For me one of the most valuable things for the future would be a user profile in order to enable us to build up a way to progress in the game without the need to start from zero each time you start it.

     
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-13

    @Onsemeliot here's a partial fix for the widescreen scaling issue. Things seem to be scaled properly now (except from the menu). The problem now is that things are positioned as if for a 4:3 screen.

     

    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-13
  • qubodup

    qubodup - 2015-05-13
    You know I made Screenshots from all maps but with the new dial we probably should redo them.

    I had no idea. The link doesn't work. So you prefer screens over map images? Should we decide on an aspect ratio and how many MB we want to dedicate to the screens max? (Using maps would mean recycling already existing images).

    For this purpose [edit: the purpose of making screenshots for previews], there would ideally be a button to hide all GUI elements.

    I fixed the GNUmakefile

    Yepp, it looks great!

    I've seen this happens in version 0.6.0 as well. The RPM at rest is exactly 2000

    I also noticed it and was about to report it but then checked the old version and it's "2" there as well when standstill.

    See "Modern automobile engines are typically operated around 2000–3000 rpm (33–50 Hz) when cruising, with a minimum (idle) speed around 750–900 rpm (12.5–15 Hz)" from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_per_minute#Examples

    I also think there is no need for an engine on/off button.

    @Andrei great work with the UI!

    Here is a comparison pre-rendered vs live rendered from the latest screenshot:

    I already gave the font a white outline both in the mockups and in the font texture to simulate "bold" but the texture font has an approximately 25% thinner outline. I will experiment with making the font bolder in general and report back with screenshots so we can decide whether we want to
    1. pre-render the speed labels or
    2. increase speed label font size or
    3. make the font bolder in general.

     

    Last edit: qubodup 2015-05-13
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-13

    @Onsemeliot I was successful in fixing the scaling issue. Also removed the useless config.h file in this update.

    @Iwan just in case you missed this post I'd like to test a version of "consolefont.png" with shadows, if your time allows you to create it.

    If I read the code right, we can have as many console fonts as we like. This, while not quite as good as using actual TTF's, may still prove useful in improving the game appearance. Thicker fonts with shadows would look good for the timer, checkpoint counter and the menu.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-13

    @Ivan:

    So you prefer screens over map images?

    I just wanted you to know there are already prepered screenshots for every map in the game. (I used the maps also. Just click on the screens!):
    http://trigger-rally.sourceforge.net/plugins/races.php

    @Andrei:
    I won't be able to test something before Saturday.

    If I got it right we need disproportional scalable backgrounds for the menu. What do you think of plain game screens without any cars? I would like to see our icon/logo image on the top right corner also - like im my menu draft linked above. But this shouldn't be scaled disproportionally. (It's the same issue as with the dial.)

     
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-14

    I would like to add a few extra camera modes. I really like the idea of a free camera that the player can control with the mouse and WASD keys. The reason why I'm mentioning this is that you're going to have to re-do every single screenshot if I can add the "Free Cam".

    But it's getting worse. I looked at the menu code and I think it's horrible. It seems to be hardcoded to 800x600 resolution which is then scaled to whatever actual resolution the user set up. So, for now, you can forget about fancy menus with thumbnails, and with logos and backgrounds that don't stretch. I don't want to ruin your enthusiasm but the new menu must wait, besides there are other things you can do: such as adding more car skins.

     
    • Onsemeliot

      Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

      The reason why I'm mentioning this is that you're going to have to re-do every single screenshot if I can add the "Free Cam".

      Why is that? Won't the traditional view stay?

      ..., besides there are other things you can do: such as adding more car skins.

      This sounds easier than I think it is. So far I didn't get how those texture images really work. The mapping doesn't seem obvious to me since even the location of the different parts are different for different skins, from what I have seen. This seems odd to me.

      Iwan, did you design it in 3D-mode with Blender? So far I wasn't even able to open an existing model in Blender or to find the options to export Blender objects in the needed format.

       
  • qubodup

    qubodup - 2015-05-14

    Looks like the forum ate my message from about 8 hours ago. I need to stop using the message box for composing. Quick recovery of the important points:

    Great job on the UI!

    Maps
    @Onsemeliot I finally added your maps.

    Font
    I attached a simple shaded font attempt. Hope it helps.

    Car textures
    I replaced the textures in svn.

    I would hope the "new" car textures are replaced again in the long run.

    Absolutely, the new ones look too cartoon-like in a mostly lowploly-realism style game. There won't be any better textures until somebody more skilled at modelling/texturing helps out though.

     
    • Onsemeliot

      Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

      Onsemeliot I finally added your maps.

      Thank you very much, Iwan. (And please excuse me overseeing the fact, that there is no "v" in your name. From where I come we have the same name, but always with an "v", if I remember correctly.)

       
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-14

    @Iwan Excellent, the new font looks great! It does show some shadow artifacts in extreme cases but it's inconsequential. (See "Go!" screenshot.)

    Could you please provide a new "consolefont.png" file, in which you put the shaded font on the top and leave the regular font on the bottom, in the same 2048x2048 image? If I can code this then the upper part of the texture won't be wasted.

    Absolutely, the new ones look too cartoon-like in a mostly lowploly-realism style game. There won't be any better textures until somebody more skilled at modelling/texturing helps out though.

    More help would be nice for all of us, but until it arrives I think you guys can handle this just fine.

    In my opinion the game needs more cars... but "more cars" doesn't necessarily mean "new models". Look at Trackmania Nations Forever. There's just one car in the entire game but it has a skin for almost every country. So in the short term we could have "junior" cars (with alternate skins) which are easier to drive but are less powerful than the regular cars, while the model is the same. That's just an idea, perhaps you can think of something even better.

     

    Last edit: Andrei 2015-05-14
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

    In my opinion the game needs more cars... but "more cars" doesn't necessarily mean "new models".

    I would differentiate between additional textures and additional polygon models. I would feel fooled if somebody would map a new texture just in order to claim it was a different car. Obviously we could add different properties to the same poygons with different textures and then this would make a real difference, but I would still prefer to have different shapes as well. At least if we can manage to do that.

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

    I tested the new version with the new dial. Ad it seems to work without distortion. I only think the numbers on the top shouldn't be placed so close to the edges of the screen.

    Do not get alarmed by the other displaying errors!

     

    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-16
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-16

    I only think the numbers on the top shouldn't be placed so close to the edges of the screen.

    I'll add some space for them. Also how about adding some textures? The times could have a stopwatch texture (maybe inspired by this or this) while the checkpoints counter could have a flag texture (both as eye-candy icons). Of course this isn't a major goal, just an idea for the future.

     
  • qubodup

    qubodup - 2015-05-16

    Font file:

    Currently, it appears that in a font file of 512x512px, characters occupy a space of 20x32 pixels, have 6px margin on left and right (12px per character total) and 0 margin at the top and bottom.

    In very rare cases, texture bleeding can occur. For example if the pixel row directly under the bottom of a character's 32 height pixels is used, it will be seen under the "GO!" label. Consequently the effective character space should be 20x30 with 1px padding at the top and bottom. Left and right are unaffected in the current layout, as they already have margins there.

    256 characters fit on the texture (16 columns x 16 rows). 95 are being used currently. We could increase to 25x40px fonts and still have enough space for two styles. If we settle on one style, we can increase to 40x64px.

    This is only possible if the code is transparent enough to compensate the changes. There might be some power of two (pot) weirdness with each character being required to have x^2 width and height (2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc.), perhaps even width and height being required to be the same. Which could explain why they are in 32x(6+20+6)px = 32x32px boxes right now.

    Font style:

    I tried the Droid Sans Mono (DSM) font and it looks much better than the current Nimbus Mono (NM), what do you think?

    I tried an outlined version (slightly smaller font, to allow it to keep the same relative boldness while adding a black outline):

    I didn't include a shadow font because I don't yet understand how Inkscape calculates blur and I haven't tried other methods yet to prevent the cutoff which was present in my first attempt.

    Time/Checkpoint UI:

    I think the gear image in previous Trigger versions didn't look good and that we should keep the time/progress UI minimal (numbers, word labels, backgrounds, no icons), as do all games in http://imgur.com/a/GjT2y.

    Sega Rally Revo is the only game that has a map (or at least I couldn't find screenshots with maps for other games) but the UI elements might be too centered. Grand Tourismo 6 also has a map but I think its UI in gerneral is cluttered.

    I would go for something similar to Dirt 3 and WRC 2 or similar to Sega Rally 3.

    It seems that all comparable games that indicate check points use a progress bar but this might be a lot of effort to implement in Trigger.

    Here are two mockup suggestions of mine, using outlined DSM (ignore the non-outlined "GO"):

    In the first "outline" style, I used 5.75% horizontal outer margin and 6.15% vertical. I let Dirt 3 inspire the margins and Sega Rally inspire the font alignments and label positions.

    In the second "greybox" style, Dirt 3 inspires most. I suspect the rendered font wouldn't be as crips, so we would probably want to use a bigger font.

    The speedometer and map might be a bit off in the mockup screenshots, sorry about that.

    I also attached a slightly bigger version of the speedometer, as it doesn't seem to make sense to have more than 1px of padding. It also uses the DSM font (not pictured in mockup screenshot).

     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

    I tried the Droid Sans Mono (DSM) font and it looks much better than the current Nimbus Mono (NM), what do you think?

    Absolutely. This looks much better. :)

    In the first "outline" style, I used 5.75% horizontal outer margin and 6.15% vertical. I let Dirt 3 inspire the margins and Sega Rally inspire the font alignments and label positions.

    I like it very much. It's very clear and easy to grasp. I would only differenciate the target time from the running time optically like in the past. Other wise it's not so clear what those numbers mean.

    In the second "greybox" style, Dirt 3 inspires most. I suspect the rendered font wouldn't be as crips, so we would probably want to use a bigger font.

    I don't think this works nearly as good as the first draft since on the left there are just too many numbers in one line. For me this is totally confusing. I wouldn't get any more what the numbers are meant to represent.

    Also how about adding some textures? The times could have a stopwatch texture (maybe inspired by this or this) while the checkpoints counter could have a flag texture (both as eye-candy icons).

    I tend towards Iwans view on this. But if you want to try how it looks you could just use those freely available icons from the open clipart library. If we feel like going that way we could adapt it how ever we want:

     

    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-16
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-16

    Excellent work with the new font, I really like the new outlined version!

    This is only possible if the code is transparent enough to compensate the changes.

    If by "transparent" you mean "easy to understand and to change" then unfortunately it isn't, at least not for me. I really wish I could say otherwise but I cannot. I rather not have to touch it for fear of breaking it.

    I didn't include a shadow font because I don't yet understand how Inkscape calculates blur and I haven't tried other methods yet to prevent the cutoff which was present in my first attempt.

    The code trims the fonts horizontally, otherwise the horizontal space between them would look very bad. So we could try decreasing the trim to allow for more shadow space. If you want to experiment by yourself, you need to edit the file src/pengine/render.cpp line 117, and change the value of font_aspect.

    Anyway, I have implemented support for the alternate style (rather clumsily for now, but it works). Keep in mind that we can have multiple consolefont's, and from now on each consolefont PNG can contain a regular set and an alternate set above it. So we can postpone the shadow font at a later date. At least until I get around to look at SDL TTF and say if I can use it or not.

    It seems that all comparable games that indicate check points use a progress bar but this might be a lot of effort to implement in Trigger.

    In the short term it truly is more hassle than it's worth. I don't know about the long term.

    In the first "outline" style, I used 5.75% horizontal outer margin and 6.15% vertical. I let Dirt 3 inspire the margins and Sega Rally inspire the font alignments and label positions.

    I think this is what we're going to go for. Unfortunately I can't work with percentages right now. The current settings are 0.075 for both horizontal and vertical. I'll change them by next update to be more closer to your suggestion. You are more than welcome to try out different values yourself, in which case you'll need to edit the file src/trigger/render.cpp lines 1043 and 1089, then run "make". Then send me back the modified file.

    glTranslatef(-hratio + 0.075f, vratio - 0.075f, 0.0f);
    glTranslatef(hratio - 0.075f, vratio - 0.075f, 0.0f);
    

    I tend towards Iwans view on this. But if you want to try how it looks you could just use those freely available icons from the open clipart library.

    I'll look into those, thanks. I understand what you stand for (no distractions), but I think adding a bit of eye candy can be a suitable replacement for labels.

    Here's the current working directory (note Windows users, I haven't scanned for viruses this time):

    http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=ga89cba1358b5c23a999665099527669b627d206d4

    MD5 sum:

    dd94f5193c82ba1568f4c340bc0d13d5  TriggerRally-0.6.3-alpha4.zip
    
     
  • Onsemeliot

    Onsemeliot - 2015-05-16

    Wonderfull. The game is looking better and better. Only the gear number isn't really placed in the center of the dial.

    About the hud-map: I made at least some races where seing it might be vital.

     

    Last edit: Onsemeliot 2015-05-16
  • Andrei

    Andrei - 2015-05-17

    Only the gear number isn't really placed in the center of the dial.

    I believe that's a consolefont vertical positioning problem, one that Iwan is more than qualified to iron out.

    @Iwan if all the letters are indeed in the middle of their 256 boxes and this is the code's fault please let me know.

     
  • qubodup

    qubodup - 2015-05-19

    DSM is taller than NM but has approximately the same baseline, meaning its center moved up a little. I had to change the render.cpp file a little for that.

    I used to center the characters in their boxes in the beginning but "1", "4" and "r" just look wrong with DSM, so I adjusted their horizontal position a little manually.

    I figured render.cpp out enough to add labels and position them based on percentage. Map size depends on height only though.

    The attached render.cpp looks like this:

    What do you think?

    I noticed the credits are not stretched on non-4:3 screens, so we should look at how they are rendered, to fix the menus.

     
  • qubodup

    qubodup - 2015-05-19

    PS: whoops, I forgot to include the modified font file.

     
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