super-tux-devel — Development mailing list for Super Tux

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Re: [Super-tux-commit] supertux/src defines.h,1.32,1.33 world.cpp,1.69,1.70 world.h,1.37,1.38

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 03:08:35PM +0200, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
>=20
> A fully agree with Ingo! Please revive the old behaviour.
>=20

I haven't played it, but based on Ingo's description, I agree!!
Change it back!!! :)

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[C R. <zra...@mi...>]

About this, I like the fruits idea (instead of swords/etc)... perhaps=20
it could be adapted more to Tux's world though... here's my ideas:=20
(geared toward levels with plenty of water, but could make for an=20
interesting set of levels) (Powerups and collectibles - I haven't=20
thought of badguys yet - probably sharklike creatures) And as someone=20
said, we'd stay away from "real-looking" animals, but most of these=20
could be easily cartoonized.

Pebble: 1 Point
Fish: 10 Points and maybe a little faster run speed or something
Sardine Tin: 50 points, get bigger
Archer Fish: Gives Tux Water Spit ability
Lionfish: Gives Tux Fire Spit ability
Flying Fish: Gives Tux Flight/Super Jump Ability
Shell: Gives Tux Invulnerability
Flashlightfish: Gives Tux sight in dark places
Sponge: Gives Tux ability to spit bubbles to jump on like flying=20
snowballs to get to high places.
Squid: Gives Tux Ink Squirt Ability (could be used to confuse enemies=20
(i.e. squirt and then be able to walk past them)

Especially I think these could be interesting because each of the=20
fish-like objects could be moving... ;) Would give a bit of a=20
challenge.

Anyone like these?

Ratchet

On May 10, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> this point of view is really straight forwarde IMHO. It doesn't mean
> we shouldn't implement advanced gameplay features, but they should be
> kept as intuitive as possible.
> Beyond that, every (perhaps with a few exceptions ;) ) gameplay =
feature
> is a good feature! :)
>
> Greetz...
>
> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer
>
> Am Mo, den 10.05.2004 um 15:21 Uhr +0100 schrieb Ricardo Cruz:
>>  I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty=20
>> intuitive, so
>> that anyone is able to play it right away...
>>
>> Ricardo Cruz
>>
>> Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber=20
>> escreveu:
>>>> on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
>>>> be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".
>>>
>>> wait... that doesn't make sense.
>>> Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by
>>> running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for
>>> themselves or something? :p
>>>
>>> CAW
>>>
>>>
>>> Bottom line
>>
>> --=20
>> The difference between the right word and the almost right word is =
the
>> difference between lightning and the lightning bug.
>> 		-- Mark Twain
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software
>> Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to
>> deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO.
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Super-tux-devel mailing list
>> Sup...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel
>>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software
> Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to
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>
---

Are YOU a Good Person? Go here:=20
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/wotm_flash.html

Re: [Super-tux-devel] LevelEditor/SuperTux final!

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:

> If no critical bugs come up on this mailing-list in the next few
> hours or another good reason, I'm about to release our baby.

The TODO still has a bunch of issues:

| [H] background in underground levels scrolls far too slow, makes them
|    hardly playable, since once too easily get focused on the
|    background instead of the playfield

This one is quite important and should be easy to fix, just change
scroll speed to the one used in the last release.

| [H] Frame ratio code has been changed and so the animation may need tunin=
g.
|     Somebody do some testing and change the definitions regarding this.

No idea about this one.

| [M] When aborting a level, lives and score should remain the same as they
|     were before. Solution: make more dependency between the game engine a=
nd worldmap
|     or just backup those variables before starting a level.

Not an issue, source code contains a longer comment on this one and
why the current behaviour is good and doesn't need fixing.

| [L] time runs while being in in-game menu, at least a bit (jump, go to
|    menu, wait a bit, leave menu, Tux will 'flip' to the ground,
|    instead of fall, pause mode doesn't seem to have this problem, only
|    menu)

Needs fixing, might end up in the player dieing when he enters menu
while jumping or infront of an enemy.

| [L] titlescreen level doesn't seamlessly wrap around, might be due to the=
 new
|     scrolling code or due to the worldmap doing the drawing

Not a huge issue, however the wrap arround currently looks quite
broken.

| [L] Backscroll is really messed up right now :)

Non issue, since it is used nowhere (I hope...)

| [L] change lispreader to throw exceptions instead of simply assert() on
|     syntax error

Non issue, as long as the level editor writes files the level loader
can read. Might however be an issue if users inserts quotes and other
special chars into a title that may break the syntax if not fully
escaped.

| [L] tux sometimes makes short jumps in the endsequence, mostly when
|     going through the goal with a small jump, might be old_up related

Not important, some people even like it better that way.

| [L] fadein/out for intro/extro would be nice
| [L] when bumping a special with 2 blocks at once, it won't change directi=
on

Not important.

| [L] tux get killed if he kicks a iceblock while at the same time
|    bouncing on the roof

Needs testing, was reported by some player.

| [L] tux can be killed by back bouncing iceblocks in the exit sequence
|    (all enemies should be removed/turned to coins once the exit
|    sequence started)

Needs to be fixed

| [L] in the "Welcome to Antarctica" level, the blocks next to the first gr=
owup
|     look like there are 2 blocks above each other when bumping against th=
em as
|     small tux...

Bumping blocks does currently not work, ie. the old blocks stays in
place and isn't remove, so you get duplicate blocks, looks a bit ugly.

| [L] Life counter should be decreased once the die-animation starts,
|    not when it ends

Needs to be fixed.

| [L] Enemies should turn upside down after being hit by an kicked
|    iceblock

Not major issue, would however look nicer that way and would be more
uniform across enemies.

--=20
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20
JabberID: gr...@ja...=20
ICQ:      59461927

[Super-tux-devel] LevelEditor/SuperTux final!

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hello,

the leveleditor is feature-frozen now. Please test it now!
Take a look esspecially at the possibility of editing already
inserted objects, by using the new target cursor (either with
the "s" shortcut or by clicking on the icon).

If you have selected an object you can edit its properties by
clicking on the new property icon or by using the "p" shortcut.

I've to admit, that it's not the most intuitive interface out there,
but at least it's simple.

If no critical bugs come up on this mailing-list in the next few hours
or another good reason, I'm about to release our baby.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hi folks,

this point of view is really straight forwarde IMHO. It doesn't mean
we shouldn't implement advanced gameplay features, but they should be
kept as intuitive as possible.
Beyond that, every (perhaps with a few exceptions ;) ) gameplay feature
is a good feature! :)

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Am Mo, den 10.05.2004 um 15:21 Uhr +0100 schrieb Ricardo Cruz:
>  I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty intuitive, so 
> that anyone is able to play it right away...
> 
> Ricardo Cruz
> 
> Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu:
> > > on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
> > > be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".
> >
> > wait... that doesn't make sense.
> > Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by
> > running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for
> > themselves or something? :p
> >
> > CAW
> >
> >
> > Bottom line
> 
> -- 
> The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the
> difference between lightning and the lightning bug.
> 		-- Mark Twain
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by Sleepycat Software
> Learn developer strategies Cisco, Motorola, Ericsson & Lucent use to 
> deliver higher performing products faster, at low TCO.
> http://www.sleepycat.com/telcomwpreg.php?From=osdnemail3
> _______________________________________________
> Super-tux-devel mailing list
> Sup...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/super-tux-devel
> 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

 I think Benjamin's point is that the game should be kept pretty intuitive, so 
that anyone is able to play it right away...

Ricardo Cruz

Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 15:39, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu:
> > on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
> > be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".
>
> wait... that doesn't make sense.
> Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by
> running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for
> themselves or something? :p
>
> CAW
>
>
> Bottom line

-- 
The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the
difference between lightning and the lightning bug.
		-- Mark Twain

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...>]

Christopher A. Webber wrote:

>>on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
>>be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".
>>    
>>
>
>wait... that doesn't make sense.
>Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by
>running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for
>themselves or something? :p
>
>  
>


*sigh* ... no! Not really.....
But even without solving all (most) of the puzzles it was possible
to finish Super Mario World ... and so even though you had
finished the game it was still fun to play.

Umm.... just forget what I said before.


Benjamin

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...>]

> on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
> be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".

wait... that doesn't make sense.
Do you mean that younger players should be playing the game just by
running and jumping, and advanced gamers have to make it harder for
themselves or something? :p

CAW

|
Bottom line

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...>]

>
>
>>Hmm... good one.
>>After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game
>>and not a strategic puzzle game..... right?
>>    
>>
>
>The game itself should be when played streight from start to beginning
>feel like a normal jump'n run, but for secret levels, red-coins and
>other collect worthy stuff, it really can't be 'strategic puzzle'-like
>enough. If you ever played one of the Mario or Metroid up to 100% you
>know what I mean, some stuff really requires quite a lot planing to
>catch :)
>  
>
Well.... ok: I agree that it's nice to have lot's of "strategic-puzzle"
parts that __could__ be solved ... thinking of SuperMario World
where lots of levels could only be reached by discovering well-
placed secrets..... such things are great fun, indeed.

on the other hand - especially younger - players maybe should
be able to finish the game by simply "jumping" and "running".

Benjamin

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Keir L. <ke...@th...>]

On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:50 -0500, Christopher A. Webber wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:36, Keir Lawson wrote: 
> > true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to
> > achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for
> > using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys
> > themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know
> > there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a
> > fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay
> > wise, just that you can loose coins)
> 
> I understand where you are coming from... but keep in mind that there
> has to be balance in the game somehow.  Keep in mind that the magic
> meter thing is not agreed upon... though it seems that ingo and I both
> agree on the sword/ upgrade to scepter thing.  I think, quite frankly,
> that this would be a heck of a lot of fun.  I think that you'll agree
> too, once it becomes playable.  I think one of the things that mades
> it seem so iffy is that it's never been done before in a platformer
> (as far as I know of).
> Anyway, magic itself doesn't "require" a magic meter.  Magic is simply
> a concept.
if there is to be no running-out or penalty for use, then i dont
understand how this differs from powerups aka smb2/smw/smw2, other than
instead of morhping the whole sprite, a scepter changes

personally i agree with ingo that you should have poweups which you have
to use quickly, aka smw/smw2

Keir

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Re: [Super-tux-commit] supertux/src defines.h,1.32,1.33 world.cpp,1.69,1.70 world.h,1.37,1.38

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Em Segunda, 10 de Maio de 2004 13:58, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu:
> Ricardo Cruz <rm...@us...> writes:
> > Instead of limitating the number of bullets, according to the ones
> > in screen, do it in a time bases. This was asked in a comment on The
> > Linux Game Tome and I already wanted to do this, since the day I
> > made that hack, so here it goes. You can tune that time on the
> > defines.h file, it is the BULLETS_TIMEOUT definition (in ms). There
> > is a fire test level.
>
> I have to say that I very much prefer the old behaviour over the new
> one, since it had numeros advantages:
>
>  * With the old behaviour it was pretty clear when one is being able
>    to shoot again, with the current system one has to wait some amount
>    of time, which leads to make the fire button feel very unresponsive
>    (press a msec to early -> no reaction). There is no visible
>    indicator when one is ready to fire again
>
 Well, that can be done.

>  * With the new behaviour one is unable to shoot multiple fireballs in
>    a row, especially when confronted with a row of enemies, this makes
>    fireballs pretty useless, since one has to wait
>
>  * Lack of punishment/bonus when killing enemies. With the old system
>    you had to be carefull with targeting the enemies, since when you
>    missed, you would have to wait until the fireball disapeared to
>    shoot again. If you on the other side hit, you would be rewarded
>    with having another fireball instantly ready. With the new system
>    you always have to just wait, no matter what you do.
>
 I don't really see those two points as bad things.

 Anyway, I've already putted the old behavior back.

Ricardo Cruz

> In general the new system basically replaces nice gameplay dynamics
> with boring waiting and even lacks a visible indicator on what is
> going on.

-- 
If you can lead it to water and force it to drink, it isn't a horse.

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...>]

On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 08:36, Keir Lawson wrote:

> true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to
> achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for
> using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys
> themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know
> there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a
> fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay
> wise, just that you can loose coins)


I understand where you are coming from... but keep in mind that there
has to be balance in the game somehow.  Keep in mind that the magic
meter thing is not agreed upon... though it seems that ingo and I both
agree on the sword/ upgrade to scepter thing.  I think, quite frankly,
that this would be a heck of a lot of fun.  I think that you'll agree
too, once it becomes playable.  I think one of the things that mades it
seem so iffy is that it's never been done before in a platformer (as far
as I know of).
Anyway, magic itself doesn't "require" a magic meter.  Magic is simply a
concept.

Christopher Allan Webber


|
The bottom line

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

"Benjamin P. Jung" <bp...@gm...> writes:

> Hmm... good one.
> After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game
> and not a strategic puzzle game..... right?

The game itself should be when played streight from start to beginning
feel like a normal jump'n run, but for secret levels, red-coins and
other collect worthy stuff, it really can't be 'strategic puzzle'-like
enough. If you ever played one of the Mario or Metroid up to 100% you
know what I mean, some stuff really requires quite a lot planing to
catch :)

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Keir L. <ke...@th...>]

On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:13 +0200, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> "Christopher A. Webber" <cr...@li...> writes:
> 
> > Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that
> > tux should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting
> > coins, and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of
> > strategy to the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but
> > I think it is great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then
> 
> The problem with ammunition is that the time you collect it and the
> time you use it, are too far apart from each other. So you either have
> to be carefull about collecting all coins, which can easily get
> borning in case you don't need them or will end up running into
> situations where you need fireballs, but are in real throuble because
> you havn't collect coins in the beginning. So ammunition basically
> ends up frustrating the player most of the time, since the out come if
> you have enough or not, depends largly on that you know before hand
> what happens in a later part of the level.
> 
> The kind of ammunition that I do like however is 'short term ammo',
> ie. you collect a fireflower, get three very powerfull balls to shoot
> and once done with them, the power is gone, no way to 'refuel' it
> other by collect another fireflower, which should be rare of course.
> If one makes it impossible or at least very hard to keep the ammo, ie.
> by using the run-button for shooting, so that the player no matter
> what, will have used it up pretty quickly, one can make sure that the
> fireflower would only be a short term bonus, not something that you
> collect about large periods of time.
> 
> For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done
> this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a
> handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are
> unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another
> one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations.
> Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care
> about them much to keep them for later situations and such.
this seems like a much better way of doing things that a "magic system"
to me

Keir lawson

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Keir L. <ke...@th...>]

On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 15:23 +0200, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Keir Lawson <ke...@th...> writes:
> 
> > personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour
> 
> Which Mario would that be, MarioBros, SuperMarioBros, SuperMarioBros2,
> SuperMarioBros3, SuperMarioLand, SuperMarioLand2, SuperMarioWorld,
> YoshisIsland, YoshisIsland2, Mario64, MarioSunshine?
> 
> There are lots of Mario games out there and none really shares very
> much with the former release beside some basic elements (ie. bonus
> blocks, coins), stuff like Yoshi, Cape, Water-Pistol, Racoon,
> Hammer-Suit, Bunny-Helmet and such are very different from game to
> game (ie. not reused at all). So there really isn't very much 'stick
> to mario-like behaviour' that we could do, since there simply isn't
> one type of Mario behaviour out there.
> 
> And beside that Tux really needs some kind of uniq gameplay detail on
> which one could build other stuff (ie. Yoshi in MarioWorld, Suits in
> MarioBros3, different characters in MarioBros2, Yoshi in
> YoshisIsland). A magic system could be such a little detail on which
> to base other stuff, the sliding behaviour could be another such
> little detail.
true, im just not convinced that a "magic system" is the best way to
achieve uniqueness, seems eiter you have some sort of penalty either for
using magic to much, or for switching between magic, but the abilitys
themselves wouldnt differ that much for say SMB 3 or SMW (didnt know
there was a yoshi's island 2, heard of yoshi's story though), im not a
fan of the penatlys idea, makes the game more sonic like (not gameplay
wise, just that you can loose coins)

hope that makes sense

Keir Lawson

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Benjamin P. J. <bp...@gm...>]

><snip>
>For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done
>this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a
>handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are
>unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another
>one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations.
>Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care
>about them much to keep them for later situations and such.
>  
>
Hmm... good one.
After all, Super Tux was ment to be a Jump and Run game
and not a strategic puzzle game..... right?


Benjamin

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Keir Lawson <ke...@th...> writes:

> personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour

Which Mario would that be, MarioBros, SuperMarioBros, SuperMarioBros2,
SuperMarioBros3, SuperMarioLand, SuperMarioLand2, SuperMarioWorld,
YoshisIsland, YoshisIsland2, Mario64, MarioSunshine?

There are lots of Mario games out there and none really shares very
much with the former release beside some basic elements (ie. bonus
blocks, coins), stuff like Yoshi, Cape, Water-Pistol, Racoon,
Hammer-Suit, Bunny-Helmet and such are very different from game to
game (ie. not reused at all). So there really isn't very much 'stick
to mario-like behaviour' that we could do, since there simply isn't
one type of Mario behaviour out there.

And beside that Tux really needs some kind of uniq gameplay detail on
which one could build other stuff (ie. Yoshi in MarioWorld, Suits in
MarioBros3, different characters in MarioBros2, Yoshi in
YoshisIsland). A magic system could be such a little detail on which
to base other stuff, the sliding behaviour could be another such
little detail.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

"Christopher A. Webber" <cr...@li...> writes:

> Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that
> tux should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting
> coins, and used up by firing fireballs and such. To add a bit of
> strategy to the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but
> I think it is great. Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then

The problem with ammunition is that the time you collect it and the
time you use it, are too far apart from each other. So you either have
to be carefull about collecting all coins, which can easily get
borning in case you don't need them or will end up running into
situations where you need fireballs, but are in real throuble because
you havn't collect coins in the beginning. So ammunition basically
ends up frustrating the player most of the time, since the out come if
you have enough or not, depends largly on that you know before hand
what happens in a later part of the level.

The kind of ammunition that I do like however is 'short term ammo',
ie. you collect a fireflower, get three very powerfull balls to shoot
and once done with them, the power is gone, no way to 'refuel' it
other by collect another fireflower, which should be rare of course.
If one makes it impossible or at least very hard to keep the ammo, ie.
by using the run-button for shooting, so that the player no matter
what, will have used it up pretty quickly, one can make sure that the
fireflower would only be a short term bonus, not something that you
collect about large periods of time.

For example the fire and shooting abilites in Yoshi Island are done
this way, eat a fruit and you get shooting power, but only for a
handfull of shoots, problem while having such a fruit is that you are
unable to eat enemies. So you get one 'weapon' while you lose another
one, so one has to be carefull about what to eat in which situations.
Since all fruits are used up pretty quickly one doesn't need to care
about them much to keep them for later situations and such.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Re: [Super-tux-commit] supertux/src defines.h,1.32,1.33 world.cpp,1.69,1.70 world.h,1.37,1.38

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Mo, den 10.05.2004 um 14:58 Uhr +0200 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke:
> Ricardo Cruz <rm...@us...> writes:
> 
> > Instead of limitating the number of bullets, according to the ones
> > in screen, do it in a time bases. This was asked in a comment on The
> > Linux Game Tome and I already wanted to do this, since the day I
> > made that hack, so here it goes. You can tune that time on the
> > defines.h file, it is the BULLETS_TIMEOUT definition (in ms). There
> > is a fire test level.
> 
> I have to say that I very much prefer the old behaviour over the new
> one, since it had numeros advantages:
> 
>  * With the old behaviour it was pretty clear when one is being able
>    to shoot again, with the current system one has to wait some amount
>    of time, which leads to make the fire button feel very unresponsive
>    (press a msec to early -> no reaction). There is no visible
>    indicator when one is ready to fire again
> 
>  * With the new behaviour one is unable to shoot multiple fireballs in
>    a row, especially when confronted with a row of enemies, this makes
>    fireballs pretty useless, since one has to wait
> 
>  * Lack of punishment/bonus when killing enemies. With the old system
>    you had to be carefull with targeting the enemies, since when you
>    missed, you would have to wait until the fireball disapeared to
>    shoot again. If you on the other side hit, you would be rewarded
>    with having another fireball instantly ready. With the new system
>    you always have to just wait, no matter what you do.
> 
> In general the new system basically replaces nice gameplay dynamics
> with boring waiting and even lacks a visible indicator on what is
> going on.


A fully agree with Ingo! Please revive the old behaviour.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer (busy with bleeding edge editor features ;) )

Re: [Super-tux-devel] 800x600 resolution

[Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...>]

Let me just make this clear:
I am heavily opposed to moving toward SVG.  Perhaps for some sprites,
perhaps for some circumstances, but certainly not all.  If you want to
think of a good way to slow down our development cycle, making a
transition to SVG is a good way of accomplishing that :P  Not only that,
but I've recently been working quite a bit with SVG for a project I got
hired in.  It takes a hell of a lot longer than making sprites does, and
on top of that, the hand drawn feel of the game will be completely lost.
I think that the 800x600 thing is a good idea, but I suggest we wait
until we have full horizontal/verticall scrolling implemented.  Then
people will even be able to have the option of using either screen mode.

CAW

|
The bottom line

[Super-tux-devel] Re: [Super-tux-commit] supertux/src defines.h,1.32,1.33 world.cpp,1.69,1.70 world.h,1.37,1.38

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Ricardo Cruz <rm...@us...> writes:

> Instead of limitating the number of bullets, according to the ones
> in screen, do it in a time bases. This was asked in a comment on The
> Linux Game Tome and I already wanted to do this, since the day I
> made that hack, so here it goes. You can tune that time on the
> defines.h file, it is the BULLETS_TIMEOUT definition (in ms). There
> is a fire test level.

I have to say that I very much prefer the old behaviour over the new
one, since it had numeros advantages:

 * With the old behaviour it was pretty clear when one is being able
   to shoot again, with the current system one has to wait some amount
   of time, which leads to make the fire button feel very unresponsive
   (press a msec to early -> no reaction). There is no visible
   indicator when one is ready to fire again

 * With the new behaviour one is unable to shoot multiple fireballs in
   a row, especially when confronted with a row of enemies, this makes
   fireballs pretty useless, since one has to wait

 * Lack of punishment/bonus when killing enemies. With the old system
   you had to be carefull with targeting the enemies, since when you
   missed, you would have to wait until the fireball disapeared to
   shoot again. If you on the other side hit, you would be rewarded
   with having another fireball instantly ready. With the new system
   you always have to just wait, no matter what you do.

In general the new system basically replaces nice gameplay dynamics
with boring waiting and even lacks a visible indicator on what is
going on.

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...>]

> personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour


It was decided long ago that we wouldn't restrict ourselves to only
doing things that Shigeru Miyamoto & team did before.  If we come up
with good ideas, there's no reason not to embrace them, if they work
well in the game.

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Keir L. <ke...@th...>]

On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 07:37 -0500, Christopher A. Webber wrote:
> Okay, I spent quite a bit of thinking on this over the weekend.  Ingo
> made a comment to me that he thinks the fireflower and such should be
> replaced with various types of magic.  I generally think this is a
> good idea.
> To encourage laziness, and for overall neatness, I have another idea
> to add to this: Tux should use scepters (sort of like a cross between
> wands and staffs) for various magical abilities.  This will make it so
> that we only have to make a few images of him holding the staffs in
> various forms, and then draw multiple forms of the staff over them.
> Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that tux
> should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting coins,
> and used up by firing fireballs and such.  To add a bit of strategy to
> the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but I think it is
> great.  Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then :)
> However, Ingo did come up with an alternate solution... one that I
> think is quite good (and that I think should not replace but just be
> included along with my idea ;)  Basically, it would entail that
> switching to other magic "types" (I.e. from fire to ice) will "puish"
> the player, like it does in r-type and some other games, as you have
> to "build up" each type of magic.  Say for example that first when you
> grab the ice power you get only an ice sword, which can simply bash
> enemies and freeze them.  However, when you grab the ice power again,
> you get the ice scepter, which allows you to shoot ice spells.  But if
> you went and grabbed the fire power, you'd be stuck with just a fire
> sword once again.
> I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out into the open!  What do you guys
> think?  I plan on posting up some sketches soon on this.
personally i think supertux should stick to mario-like behaviour

Keir Lawson

[Super-tux-devel] Magic system

[Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...>]

Okay, I spent quite a bit of thinking on this over the weekend.  Ingo
made a comment to me that he thinks the fireflower and such should be
replaced with various types of magic.  I generally think this is a good
idea.
To encourage laziness, and for overall neatness, I have another idea to
add to this: Tux should use scepters (sort of like a cross between wands
and staffs) for various magical abilities.  This will make it so that we
only have to make a few images of him holding the staffs in various
forms, and then draw multiple forms of the staff over them.
Ingo and I also had a huge clash over this idea... I thought that tux
should have a magic meter that would be refilled by collecting coins,
and used up by firing fireballs and such.  To add a bit of strategy to
the game, you know? Ingo absolutely hates this idea, but I think it is
great.  Perhaps I could squeeze it in as an option then :)
However, Ingo did come up with an alternate solution... one that I think
is quite good (and that I think should not replace but just be included
along with my idea ;)  Basically, it would entail that switching to
other magic "types" (I.e. from fire to ice) will "puish" the player,
like it does in r-type and some other games, as you have to "build up"
each type of magic.  Say for example that first when you grab the ice
power you get only an ice sword, which can simply bash enemies and
freeze them.  However, when you grab the ice power again, you get the
ice scepter, which allows you to shoot ice spells.  But if you went and
grabbed the fire power, you'd be stuck with just a fire sword once
again.
I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out into the open!  What do you guys
think?  I plan on posting up some sketches soon on this.

Christopher Allan Webber


|
The bottom line

Re: [Super-tux-devel] bitmask

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hey,

I put it in there, because it could be very useful in the future. ;)
It's meant for objects that need high precision.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Am So, den 09.05.2004 um 23:55 Uhr -0600 schrieb Ryan Flegel:
> Hey,
> 
> I just noticed we don't use bitmask.h/.cpp for collision detection any
> more. I suppose it would be okay to remove these now?
> 
> -- 
> Ryan
> 
> 
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