super-tux-devel — Development mailing list for Super Tux

Re: [Super-tux-devel] 2 player mode

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

ri...@ae... writes:

>  Tobias mentioned that the code is written in a object oriented way
> and implementing a 2players mode would be trivial... Guess what, it
> is :) Here you have a screenshot.

Well, codewise a 2 player mode is relativly simple, gameplay wise
however it is not. With SuperTux0.1 it might be doable, since it will
be a linear game, no backscrolling, levels of limited height, etc. But
as soon as it would get backscrolling, levels with multiple possible
paths, etc. 2d player mode becomes quite difficult to manage from a
gameplay point of view. With just a single screen one would have
massive problems coordinating both players to walk the same path,
respawning and stuff like that, splitscreen can help, but limits the
visible area quite a bit and spoils a lot of the fun. A normal
singleplayer level (even a simple 0.1 one) can also feature lots of
situations that are only walkable once, ie jump on a enemy to cross an
hole, donut blocks, and similar stuff, so once the first player as
walked the path, it gets unwalkable for the second player. Basically,
the normal single player levels wouldn't work well for multiplayer,
some might be completly unplayable.

I am not saying that a two player mode wouldn't be worth to have, just
that simply adding another human controllable sprite to the screen
alone won't be a complete 2 player mode. A 2 player mode would pretty
much need a completly different set of levels and different enemies or
enemy behaviour to be really fun.

It might be a nice idea to provide something similar like the original
MarioBros (the non-scrolling one) for Supertux:

http://www.atarihq.com/museum/5200/games/screen/mario3.jpg

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] 2 player mode

[Chris S. <csp...@ca...>]

On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 10:25, ri...@ae... wrote:
>  Anyway, what about shiping a 2player mode in the next 0.0.6?  
> Gown cannot be the 2nd player since she has been adbucated :) but  
> what about creating a friend for Tux, by changing its colors (a blue 
> penguin with green eyes)? :P  

Perhaps the FreeBSD devil can come along as the partner.

Either that or we could bring along the Gnu.

Inspiration could be gleaned from:
http://www.gnu.org/graphics/
http://www.coresis.com/penguin/
http://lwn.net/Gallery/
http://www.rimhedenmedia.com/tux/tuxen.html
http://linuxart.com/portfolio/wfi/gnuzen/

-Chris

"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly
unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of
change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of
the darkness." - Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

Re: [Super-tux-devel] 2 player mode

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Di, den 17.02.2004 schrieb ri...@ae... um 11:25:
> Hey there,  
>   
>  Tobias mentioned that the code is written in a object oriented way  
> and implementing a 2players mode would be trivial... Guess what, it  
> is :) Here you have a screenshot.  
>  In my laptop the game is a bit unplayble (have to tune the  
> defines), but it seems to be working without any flaws... The only  
> problem is when running with the debug mode, where backscrolling is  
> possible and there is a problem related with that...  
>   
>  Anyway, what about shiping a 2player mode in the next 0.0.6?  
> Gown cannot be the 2nd player since she has been adbucated :) but  
> what about creating a friend for Tux, by changing its colors (a blue 
> penguin with green eyes)? :P  

Shipping it with 0.0.6 isn't a good idea. A two player mode should come
along with custom defineable keys for example.
Furthermore the code is in a state, where we have to fix bugs and get
new features stable to be able to release a new version.
I predict this will be on the 0.0.7 TODO, thought.

>   
>   
> Cheers,  
>  Ricardo  
>   
> ps: i really think we should port to C++, instead of "emulating" C++  
> with structures and functions :P  

I see the need for porting to C++ more and more. :)
The earlier it's done the better? If nobody uses his power of
veto, I'd like to put this on the 0.0.7 TODO, after the 0.0.6 release.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

[Super-tux-devel] 2 player mode

[<ri...@ae...>]

Hey there, =20
 =20
 Tobias mentioned that the code is written in a object oriented way =20
and implementing a 2players mode would be trivial... Guess what, it =20
is :) Here you have a screenshot. =20
 In my laptop the game is a bit unplayble (have to tune the =20
defines), but it seems to be working without any flaws... The only =20
problem is when running with the debug mode, where backscrolling is =20
possible and there is a problem related with that... =20
 =20
 Anyway, what about shiping a 2player mode in the next 0.0.6? =20
Gown cannot be the 2nd player since she has been adbucated :) but =20
what about creating a friend for Tux, by changing its colors (a blue=20
penguin with green eyes)? :P =20
 =20
 =20
Cheers, =20
 Ricardo =20
 =20
ps: i really think we should port to C++, instead of "emulating" C++ =20
with structures and functions :P =20
 =20
_________________________________________________________
Screensavers e wallpapers gr=E1tis: http://freegames.online.pt

Re: [Super-tux-devel] GNU picture contrib from (z)ratchet

[<ri...@ae...>]

Now, this is a must! ;D=20
=20
-- Ricardo=20
_________________________________________________________
Vem experimentar jogos gr=E1tis: http://freegames.online.pt

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Tiny patch

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Di, den 17.02.2004 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 04:39:
>    Hi there,
> 
>    This is just another tiny patch:
> 
> fix   : "player.c"  : reinit timer when tux dies
> remove: "texture.c" : unnecessary w,h assignment before SDL_BlitSurface()
> 
>    I'm playing with back and forth porting between the "before OpenGL" and the 
> "after OpenGL" versions. Bug hunting takes me really a lot of time, much more 
> than writing new codes from scratch. I have never read the whole source codes 
> before. I think that it's time for me to do this in order to fix the hard and 
> ugly ones :-D

Don't worry. I've fixed the most bugs on my local working directory and
only need to commit the fixes. Unfortunately the fixes would come along
with a bit of only half done work. (Level-Editor GUI, Load/Save,
Dialogs) :(

I suggest waiting till my next commit is done.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

[Super-tux-devel] Tiny patch

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

   Hi there,

   This is just another tiny patch:

fix   : "player.c"  : reinit timer when tux dies
remove: "texture.c" : unnecessary w,h assignment before SDL_BlitSurface()

   I'm playing with back and forth porting between the "before OpenGL" and the 
"after OpenGL" versions. Bug hunting takes me really a lot of time, much more 
than writing new codes from scratch. I have never read the whole source codes 
before. I think that it's time for me to do this in order to fix the hard and 
ugly ones :-D


-- 
Never say if I could turn back the time,
life is going on !

[Super-tux-devel] GNU picture contrib from (z)ratchet

[C R. <zra...@mi...>]

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Fill rect bug

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am So, den 15.02.2004 schrieb Bill Kendrick um 06:24:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:23:29PM -0500, Tobias Gläßer wrote:
> > Am So, den 15.02.2004 schrieb Ricardo Cruz um 05:55:
> > > Hi,
> > >  In the level editor lines were being drawn as black, instead of white, in 
> > > opengl mode.
> > >  My OpenGL knowledge are pretty basic, just red that you need to disable 
> > > textures to draw regular primitives... :)
> > > 
> > > Ricardo Cruz
> > 
> > Thanx for your patch :) but I already fixed it in my local working
> > directory. I'll commit the stuff as soon as possible. 
> 
> Have fun merging my changes.
> 
> BWAHAHAHAH! :^)
> 
> 
> (Seriously, though... I fixed a few *.c files where there were
> 'inappropriate' variable declarations... e.g., after code, where
> typical C compilers, including GCC 2.95 under Debian Woody, barf)
> 
> -bill!

Ehrm, Bill, SuperTux will be compileable with g++ after my next commit. :)
Gcc will stay the default compiler thought.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Fill rect bug

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:23:29PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> Am So, den 15.02.2004 schrieb Ricardo Cruz um 05:55:
> > Hi,
> >  In the level editor lines were being drawn as black, instead of whit=
e, in=20
> > opengl mode.
> >  My OpenGL knowledge are pretty basic, just red that you need to disa=
ble=20
> > textures to draw regular primitives... :)
> >=20
> > Ricardo Cruz
>=20
> Thanx for your patch :) but I already fixed it in my local working
> directory. I'll commit the stuff as soon as possible.=20

Have fun merging my changes.

BWAHAHAHAH! :^)


(Seriously, though... I fixed a few *.c files where there were
'inappropriate' variable declarations... e.g., after code, where
typical C compilers, including GCC 2.95 under Debian Woody, barf)

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Fill rect bug

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am So, den 15.02.2004 schrieb Ricardo Cruz um 05:55:
> Hi,
>  In the level editor lines were being drawn as black, instead of white, in 
> opengl mode.
>  My OpenGL knowledge are pretty basic, just red that you need to disable 
> textures to draw regular primitives... :)
> 
> Ricardo Cruz

Thanx for your patch :) but I already fixed it in my local working
directory. I'll commit the stuff as soon as possible. 

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

[Super-tux-devel] Fill rect bug

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Hi,
 In the level editor lines were being drawn as black, instead of white, in 
opengl mode.
 My OpenGL knowledge are pretty basic, just red that you need to disable 
textures to draw regular primitives... :)

Ricardo Cruz

-- 
I have already given two cousins to the war and I stand ready to sacrifice
my wife's brother.
		-- Artemus Ward

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Graphic style test

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Ingo Ruhnke <gr...@gm...> writes:

> IRC user already know this pic, so just a little re-post for the
> ML-only readers:

Some more in-game useable tiles:

http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/windstille-tux.jpg
http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/windstille-tux3.jpg

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Hey,

 I don't think SuperTux should already be the Game of the Month, since the=
=20
leveleditor is not yet that fun to use...
 I mean, without a mouse interface it sucks to edit levels, since you have =
to=20
know the right keys. Futhermore, the Help screen doesn't display all the=20
keys, since the fonts don't support some characters...

 The level editor supports selections=20
[http://rpmcruz.planetaclix.pt/trash/supertux.png] (i'll commit it when the=
=20
cvs is updated) and I think that with a mouse interface it would be pretty=
=20
trivial and fun to create levels.

 My idea for the interface is to have a panel in the right that would have =
a=20
few buttons (maybe 10, so that there could be numerical key bindings). The=
=20
top/main buttons would be something like Background, Foreground, Bricks and=
=20
Enemies. When a category was chosen, the avaible tiles would be listed, a=20
long with a Plus button (to display more) and a Back one (to get to the top=
=20
level buttons).

 I think this would be enough for the GUI, there is no need to use a gui=20
library for the current level formats... Of course, with scripting and stuf=
f,=20
it would be necessary to have dialogs and stuff and maybe then a gui librar=
y=20
could be used.

Just my 2 cents,
 Ricardo Cruz

Em Quarta, 11 de Fevereiro de 2004 17:40, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu:
> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:
>
> > Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should
> > be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;)
>
> Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are
> lots of people contributing good levels, there can be of course more,
> however something like 10 should be the target, if we get more than
> that, thats good, however if we get 10 that should be enough to
> release it. And anyway, 10 good levels are better than 50 sucky ones,
> more doesn't necesarrily mean its better (quantity vs quality). Just
> for the record SuperMarioBros and GianaSisters had both 'just' 32
> levels.

=2D-=20
Nothing makes one so vain as being told that one is a sinner.
Conscience makes egotists of us all.
		-- Oscar Wilde

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Graphic style test

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 12:20:44AM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Hiho,
> 
> IRC user already know this pic, so just a little re-post for the
> ML-only readers:
> 
>  * http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/supertux-screentest.jpg
> 
> Currently just a Gimp patchup, but should be directly 'portable' into
> the game.

OoooOOOhh...

-bill!

[Super-tux-devel] Graphic style test

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Hiho,

IRC user already know this pic, so just a little re-post for the
ML-only readers:

 * http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/supertux-screentest.jpg

Currently just a Gimp patchup, but should be directly 'portable' into
the game.

Transitions between tiles are still a bit rough and it looks quite
blocky, however its a suggestion on how I imagine SuperTux0.1 to look
like.

And a SuperTux0.1 todo is now available at:

 * http://super-tux.sourceforge.net/development/milestone1.html

-- 
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ 
JabberID: gr...@ja... 
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Mi, den 11.02.2004 schrieb Bill Kendrick um 15:56:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:31:25PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes:
> > 
> > > Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode.
> > 
> > The question is not so much if backscrolling is possible, but more if
> > we want or need it. With vertical scrolling its a must have, but with
> > just horizontal scrolling its not really important and doesn't provide
> > much advantages.
> > 
> 
> Not to repeat myself too many times, but I'm against 'backscrolling'
> in a game with Super Tux's theme.
> 
> My previous jump-n-run game, Bobobot, allowed going back (although it
> wasn't scrolling), but that's because there was no sense of urgency.
> 
> It was merely the entire world in danger, not your girlfriend. ;)
> Also, there was no timer.
> 
> 
> <snip>
> > >>  * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that
> > > Dunno, if that's needed.
> > 
> > To make it short, its a must have. It doesn't has to be groundbreaking
> > or anything, but simply poping back to the start menu or something
> > like that after the last level looks just so damn broken.
> 
> I agree.  We do have the 'Intro', so it'd be nice to have something ot
> 'end the story  [... for now]' (cue evil music)
> 
> 
> <snip>
> > 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current
> >     Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a
> >     pretty different game.
> 
> This is where I would fork completely.  Hell, it might even make sense
> to just start from scratch for the 'next game.'  Definitely DON'T
> just jury-rig on top of the current codebase to make a completely
> different game.  There'll be a lot of picking and choosing, and throwing
> away of code, from the first 'version' to make the 'sequel,' and it makes
> no sense to do that INSIDE the original's code!
> 
> -bill!

I don't want to make a completely different game, when the 0.2.x development starts.
Many parts (not all) of the current codebase are well designed, so
that extending them makes sense.
Things like scripting and other stuff certainly will make their way into this
development branch and porting it to C++ will be an obvious step from
my point of view. This step won't be too hard, since I can compile and
link the current codebase on my working directory already with g++.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 06:40:36PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:
>=20
> > You may put this plan on our development homepage!
>=20
> I'll open up a new section for it soon. BTW. Should we move the main
> SuperTux page to sf.net too (ie the non-developer part)?

Probably.  My participation lately has been low, once again.
It seems to be 'your guy's' project now, and not 'mine,' so I'm happy
to dust off everything and hand it over. :^)


<snip>=20
> Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are
> lots of people contributing good levels,

I'd like lots of voting (by us developers) on what we consider 'good' :)

I don't trust the average response to be very good, unfortunately...



-bill!
bi...@ne...           "Hey Shatner, ya remember that episod=
e of
http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/   Space Trek where your show got cancel=
led?"

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:47:19PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> > 0.1.0 - release a fully playable SuperTux with something like 10
> >         levels or so, static-binary, etc.
>=20
> Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should
> be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;)

The original Super Mario Bros had 8 'worlds' of 4 'levels' each, so that
was 32 zones to play in.

Zones seemed roughly the same length, and were divided into two halves.
The 'first' and the 'second.'  There was no noticable difference between
these sections.  It was merely that if you died before you reached the
midway point in a zone, you'd start at the beginning.  If you died
AFTER the midway point, you'd be resurrected AT the midway point.

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:31:25PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:
>=20
> > Hey, backscrolling _is_ already possible. ./supertux --debug-mode.
>=20
> The question is not so much if backscrolling is possible, but more if
> we want or need it. With vertical scrolling its a must have, but with
> just horizontal scrolling its not really important and doesn't provide
> much advantages.
>=20

Not to repeat myself too many times, but I'm against 'backscrolling'
in a game with Super Tux's theme.

My previous jump-n-run game, Bobobot, allowed going back (although it
wasn't scrolling), but that's because there was no sense of urgency.

It was merely the entire world in danger, not your girlfriend. ;)
Also, there was no timer.


<snip>
> >>  * create a little credits-screen/extro or something like that
> > Dunno, if that's needed.
>=20
> To make it short, its a must have. It doesn't has to be groundbreaking
> or anything, but simply poping back to the start menu or something
> like that after the last level looks just so damn broken.

I agree.  We do have the 'Intro', so it'd be nice to have something ot
'end the story  [... for now]' (cue evil music)


<snip>
> 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current
>     Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a
>     pretty different game.

This is where I would fork completely.  Hell, it might even make sense
to just start from scratch for the 'next game.'  Definitely DON'T
just jury-rig on top of the current codebase to make a completely
different game.  There'll be a lot of picking and choosing, and throwing
away of code, from the first 'version' to make the 'sequel,' and it makes
no sense to do that INSIDE the original's code!

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 01:35:06PM +0100, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> as it is today, SuperTux provides a more or less working MarioBros1
> style engine, but lacks levels, a readable font, graphics and other
> stuff like that. The current Todo[1] is very much focused on the far
> furture, basically going into a YoshiIsland/MarioBros3 direction,
> which would mean a huge change for the engine (backscrolling, vertical
> scrolling, different shaped tiles, an "Oberwelt"[2]). While that is
> good and fine to focus a bit on the far future, I would consider it a
> bit of a waste to simply throw the current working engine away. So my
> suggestion is that we:
> 
>  * fix up the current engine back into a usable state, ie. MarioBros1
>    like, no back-scrolling or other funky stuff that could get too
>    complicated
> 

Perhaps it would make sense to focus on "Super Tux" being not too much
more than Super Mario Bros (the original).

Make it fun, polish it, add great graphics and levels...


THEN, when THAT'S all done, take the current code base and fork it
into "Super Tux 2", which would have the countless additional features
that I had never originally envisioned for "Super Tux."


-bill!
bi...@ne...           "Hey Shatner, ya remember that episode of
http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/   Space Trek where your show got cancelled?"

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

 Just to point out that "Game of the Month" is a place where monthly a game=
=20
that needs some help, in terms of code, graphics, sounds, levels... is=20
placed.

=2D- Ricardo

Em Quarta, 11 de Fevereiro de 2004 22:09, o Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer escreve=
u:

> >  * time-frame for this should relativly short, something around one
> >    month, see also the discussion about "Game of the Month" at
> >    happypenguin[3]
>
> I don't think SuperTux is a good candidate for such a title atm.
> Wait until 0.1. I'm trying to make short cycled releases after 0.0.6.
>
> Greetz...
>
> Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer

=2D-=20
Many people are secretly interested in life.

[Super-tux-devel] Upgrades direction patch

[Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...>]

Hey,

 This is a patch that makes upgrades to go to the opposite side where Tux 
collide with the box, like in >= SM3.
(I had to manually edit it, hope it's fine.)

Ricardo Cruz

-- 
Are you making all this up as you go along?

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Ingo R. <gr...@gm...>]

Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes:

> You may put this plan on our development homepage!

I'll open up a new section for it soon. BTW. Should we move the main
SuperTux page to sf.net too (ie the non-developer part)?

> Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should
> be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;)

Depends on the output of the "Game of the Month" thing, if there are
lots of people contributing good levels, there can be of course more,
however something like 10 should be the target, if we get more than
that, thats good, however if we get 10 that should be enough to
release it. And anyway, 10 good levels are better than 50 sucky ones,
more doesn't necesarrily mean its better (quantity vs quality). Just
for the record SuperMarioBros and GianaSisters had both 'just' 32
levels.=20

--=20
WWW:      http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20
JabberID: gr...@ja...=20
ICQ:      59461927

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Release Schedule/Milestones/GotM

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Thank you for writing down this release plan. It doesn't differ from
what I told you in the IRC meeting, I think.

You may put this plan on our development homepage!

> 0.0.6 - fixup to get back to the state before the huge cleanup

That's what I'm doing currently.

> 0.0.x - more fixup, feature freeze, so that levels don't break due to
>     newly added feature, at this point given a good ToDo it could
>     become "Game of the Month"

Yep. I hope so!

> [no releases for a while, but instead working on the content (levels,
> gfx, etc)]

Yep.

> 0.1.0 - release a fully playable SuperTux with something like 10
>         levels or so, static-binary, etc.

Only 10 levels? That's really damn less. With a leveleditor it should
be possible to "produce" at least 50 levels. ;)

> 0.1.1 - bugfixes for 0.1.0 only

Yep.

> 0.2.x - changing the engine to handle features listed in the current
>     Todo, break compability with 0.1.0 levels, basically creating a
>     pretty different game.

Yep. But let's concentrate on the 0.0.x series for now. :)

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

--