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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:06:46
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > I wanted to release 0.1 anyway and I will do it! So just for ego reason you want to do the 0.1 yourself, right? Why not call it 0.1.1 and everybody will be happy. > It's likely to happen today and with a leveleditor built-in, that is > working without flaws and all features required. Ricardo already broke one of the levels with his backscrolling, be carefull with that. > If there is any reason not to release 0.1 today, please tell me > about it. (That's what I call team) How about letting the leveleditor be tested before the release? Its still kind of 'fresh' code after all. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:04:43
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 15:54: > And thats why 0.0.6 got that insane amount of gameplay and level > testing that made it such a much better release than 0.1.0? Polemic. > > Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in the 2 weeks, > > so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to debug > > everything and get feedback about what we did. > > And then there was again work in this two week and you have to wait > another two weeks... Wait I have a suggestion, I let this release be > called 0.1, while you can call yours "Super Tux Forever". Polemic. (where did 0.0.5 and 0.0.6 come from, uh oh?) > How again do you squish bugs that none of the testers found? You can > either wait for all eternity for all bugs to be found or you can test > it, fix found bugs, release it, fix the remaining bugs that people > spot. Ok, that's not entirely wrong. > Everything was ready, everything was already ready two weeks ago. The > last two weeks already where bug squishing and polishing in huge part. > There is no reason to extent that period even longer. What's about days? (Or even ONE day) > Tobis was 'missing in action' for huge parts of the last month, > nothing wrong with that, it can happen, but don't expect other people > to just wait then and not get work done. There is a difference between getting work done (which was solved in great manner by all involved parties) and making a official release. I appeared on the mailing-list and wrote about releasing 0.1 with the leveleditor, didn't I? > You failed to give me a good reason to not release, thats all. So one can judge what's a good opinion for all the others? (Polemic from my side) > Well, if you release a new version you kind of have to announce it. > And as already mentioned, this is 0.1, not 1.0, its expected to not be > the best most polished 'Yoshi Island Killer' game ever and you can > already have a 0.1.1 without any problem in the next day. blabla ... Greetz... Tobias Gläßer (who calms down and prepares an official release) -- |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:03:58
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > I also made the level 13 to have back scrolling, mostly for testing purposes. > So, run it (supertux data/levels/world1/level13.stl), if you wanna try it. How about doing this in the level subset instead of breaking the official Milestone1 levels? -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:03:12
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > This is all not about critical bugs or critical missing features, > but about common values in a free project. So you don't have found any major issues in Milestone1 that you would find critical yourself?=20 > I have the right to make a official SuperTux release, but I refuse > to make a major release public before hearing comments about it > and involving the community into it. I involved the community by giving it access to the release, by posting the prerelease in the happypenguin forum, by organized a few IRC meetings. I have found none of the community that said 'oh no, milestone1 is a broken piece of shit, please don't release' > Your "but I sayed on 2nd May" attitude isn't helpful. We have a release out, it works, the levels are final and it doesn't contain any major bugs as it looks like. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-03 14:02:53
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On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 08:39, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: >=20 > > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. >=20 > Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so > important that none of the levels was build with it? >=20 > > I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, > > but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. >=20 > Then please strip all my graphics, levels and worldmap code from your > 0.1 release, since I am sure you don't want to be accountable for that > stuff that you didn't create yourself. Alright, calm down. Everyone is fairly frustrated at this point, but I would reccomend that we take a few steps backward, take a deep breath, and such. SuperTux has gone a long way over these last few months. I know this is a huge frustration, and honestly, I'm a bit disappointed that 0.1 was released without a level editor at first myself. However, let's think logically about this. Ingo has done more than just valuable work for the project. He has made phenomenal contributions to the project, and anyone who denies that is a fool. But I don't think anyone is denying that. However, we must keep in consideration the fact that this _is_ a community. As such, we should keep consideration of each others' feelings and opinions. And as such, a thing like a major release should be well discussed within the community, to keep the community from falling apart. I'd like to point out that this is precisely what did not happen... and precisely what is happening. I understand why Ingo wanted to release this version at this time... but shouldn't there have been more discussion than just "this will be released May second, no matter what"? Just my thoughts on the issue. I'd really rather not see this group torn apart. I think most everyone will agree. Christopher Allan Webber | The bottom line |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 13:59:48
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Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 14:39, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. > > Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so > important that none of the levels was build with it? > Well, at least I used it for the only level I made (the sky one). ;) Ricardo =2D-=20 BASIC is to computer programming as QWERTY is to typing. -- Seymour Papert |
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From: Marek <wa...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:56:43
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Calm down you guys!
Let's just face the facts:
There is a 0.1 release out. Releasing another 0.1 version doesn't make
any sense.
Thus, the next version (which was going to be the actual 0.1) will now
be called 0.1.1. So what?
Next version will be acknoledged by all of you, with project leader
Tobias having the final word, before release.
Now just grab a glass of fine scotch whisky, get some sleep and calm the
f**k down. It's happened, and it's not that a big deal.
And please, stop taking it out on public (i.e. happypenguin) forums.
That's really embarassing.
I like what SuperTux has become, and you all did a great job. Now just
stop making such a fuss about this issue. In return, I will now stop
babbling. :)
Marek
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:54:12
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > In my opinion, there should be quite a few testing and code probbing before > releasing anything. And thats why 0.0.6 got that insane amount of gameplay and level testing that made it such a much better release than 0.1.0? > Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in the 2 weeks, > so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to debug > everything and get feedback about what we did. And then there was again work in this two week and you have to wait another two weeks... Wait I have a suggestion, I let this release be called 0.1, while you can call yours "Super Tux Forever". > Futhermore, we are talking about a major move - 0.1! This is not another > minor version, so simple bugs, like the one that Tobias reported, should have > been squished by then! How again do you squish bugs that none of the testers found? You can either wait for all eternity for all bugs to be found or you can test it, fix found bugs, release it, fix the remaining bugs that people spot. > I know everyone, especially the developers that worked hard, want to see > their work out there, but let's calm down, and wait before everything is > ready and everyone agrees in a release. Everything was ready, everything was already ready two weeks ago. The last two weeks already where bug squishing and polishing in huge part. There is no reason to extent that period even longer. > This is not an individual effort and so attitudes like the Ingo's > one should not be encouraged. Besides from that, we have someone > that is responsible for the project leading and that should be taken > in consideration before announcing anything that is related with the > project. Tobis was 'missing in action' for huge parts of the last month, nothing wrong with that, it can happen, but don't expect other people to just wait then and not get work done. > I already knew that Ingo was going to release a new version and I asked him > to at least changing the name. He did not do this, but he has further more, > abused his cvs access to make the webpage to point to his version, as if it > was a normal release. You failed to give me a good reason to not release, thats all. > Besides from that, he posted the new version at the Linux Game Tome, > in order to force Tobias to assume his version as an official one. Well, if you release a new version you kind of have to announce it. And as already mentioned, this is 0.1, not 1.0, its expected to not be the best most polished 'Yoshi Island Killer' game ever and you can already have a 0.1.1 without any problem in the next day. -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:52:53
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Tobias Gläßer um 15:53: > Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 15:39: > > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > > > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. > > > > Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so > > important that none of the levels was build with it? > > > > > I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, > > > but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. > > > > Then please strip all my graphics, levels and worldmap code from your > > 0.1 release, since I am sure you don't want to be accountable for that > > stuff that you didn't create yourself. > > I stated often enough that I don't doubt your _work_, but your > behaviour! Your work is appreciated, welcome and wonderful. > But your behaviour in this special case isn't a gentlemen's. > > Everybody can make failures and I'm not apart from this. > This is all not about critical bugs or critical missing features, > but about common values in a free project. > > I have the right to make a official SuperTux release, but I refuse > to make a major release public before hearing comments about it > and involving the community into it. > > Your "but I sayed on 2nd May" attitude isn't helpful. > > Greetz... > > Tobias Gläßer (hates ) (forgot) ... hates conflicts like that ... -- |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:49:49
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 15:39: > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. > > Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so > important that none of the levels was build with it? > > > I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, > > but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. > > Then please strip all my graphics, levels and worldmap code from your > 0.1 release, since I am sure you don't want to be accountable for that > stuff that you didn't create yourself. I stated often enough that I don't doubt your _work_, but your behaviour! Your work is appreciated, welcome and wonderful. But your behaviour in this special case isn't a gentlemen's. Everybody can make failures and I'm not apart from this. This is all not about critical bugs or critical missing features, but about common values in a free project. I have the right to make a official SuperTux release, but I refuse to make a major release public before hearing comments about it and involving the community into it. Your "but I sayed on 2nd May" attitude isn't helpful. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer (hates ) -- |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:39:29
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so important that none of the levels was build with it? > I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, > but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. Then please strip all my graphics, levels and worldmap code from your 0.1 release, since I am sure you don't want to be accountable for that stuff that you didn't create yourself. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 13:38:22
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Well, it is people with your attitude that make me to believe in that and that there is no hope ;D Ricardo Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 14:25, o Matze Braun escreveu: > There's no such thing as bug-free software. > > Greetings, > Matze > -- Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing. |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:36:34
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > What's wrong about having an official release that is communicated > to all people involved before releasing? Did you ask something? Yes, multiple times on IRC and in my prerelease reply I also made clear that 2. May is release day, no matter what. > You simply fail to have the rights to do such a "release". Who has then? > Releasing is the wrong word here anyway, I'd like to call it > distributing a CVS snapshot. Its not a snapshot, its Milestone1 as it should be like. You still fail to point out critical issues that would have needed to be fixed before the release and that were especially know before the release. > Your first step was apparently > a news item on happypenguin, but I use to have the release package > around for testing on the mailing-list for final error-checking. Thats what the prerelease was for, all bugs that where found got fixed. > A bug fix 0.1.1 release isn't wrong, but a missing leveleditor is > different from a bug. The editor didn't get ready in time thats why it got striped, nothing more, it simply wasn't that important. If you include it in 0.1.1 or in 0.1.5 or whenever is really pretty much a non issue. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 13:36:31
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Thx, fixed. Should have done my homework with more attention ;) I also made the level 13 to have back scrolling, mostly for testing purposes. So, run it (supertux data/levels/world1/level13.stl), if you wanna try it. Have fun, Ricardo Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 14:17, o Michael George escreveu: > I believe it uses #t and #f. > > --Mike > > Ricardo Cruz wrote: > > Hey there, > > > > I have improved back scrolling code a bit and enabled it, in case the > > level explicitly asks for it. > > So, do you think that any level shipped with SuperTux 0.1 should have > > back scrolling at all? I know it takes the fun of some levels, but there > > are some like the "Above the Arctic Skies" and the last one that I think > > there is no problem in enabling it. > > > > There is also this problem, I have used the read_bool(), but I don't > > know how does the lisp parser identifies the boolean entries. It seems to > > check for t or f , but it crashes when I try them... Help, anyone? > > > > Ricardo Cruz > -- Even if you do learn to speak correct English, whom are you going to speak it to? -- Clarence Darrow |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:35:30
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Hello, I wanted to release 0.1 anyway and I will do it! It's likely to happen today and with a leveleditor built-in, that is working without flaws and all features required. Moreover I'll do the final code-review, that I always do before releasing anything. If there is any reason not to release 0.1 today, please tell me about it. (That's what I call team) Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 13:27:02
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Please, Ingo, not that again! :D Man, I already talked to you so many times about this! It not a matter of= =20 what is missing or not, this is bigger. You have abused of the power invest= ed=20 in you to release a version as if it was official, besides from that you kn= ew=20 there were people against it. There is something that is called respect and values, if you haven't been= =20 told them, you should consider reading a book about it. :) C'mon, you are not the only one that wants a new version, it just happens= =20 that what you did was wrong, admit it, correct it and move on. Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 14:08, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > I don't have to tell you much. I could theoretically also make a 2.0 > > release, if I like, > > but I don't feel SuperTux being 0.1 in my view already. > > Then tell me what beside the leveleditor is missing? The game itself > has been rock-solid for me and well, pretty much everybody else, since > I haven't seen any bug reports recently. > > All the level have been playtested multiple times and have had a lot > of little tweaking first by Wansti and then in a second run by myself. > Wansti also added quite a handfull of hidden secrets. So there is > really nothing more to be done in these levels itself. > > The story and the worldmap are finished and useable as well. > > There are a handfull of minor issues left in the Todo, but thats > something you will ALWAYS have, a game is never complete or perfect, > there is always yet a nother minor issue or bug to be fixed, just look > at the commercial games out there. > > > I speak openly, just because you have a personal interest in making > > a release fast as can there is this release now, which is not more > > than a snapshot. > > Its not a snapshot, its a first Milestone1 release. With another 0.1.1 > bugfix + leveleditor release comming in a few days/weeks or whenever > the editor gets ready. The content, levels and enemies are all final. > > > The _0.0.7_'s release plans aims are nearly all completed, besides > > the leveleditor issue. But before releasing 0.1 I want to have a > > look over the whole code for a last time to ensure the best possible > > quality and last but not least I simply don't have to accept your > > move. > > The Milestone1 plans were also completed as well, 0.0.7 was already > done a long time ago. And as always said, the build in leveleditor > would be nice to have, but its not critical for playing the game, if > it doesn't get ready it will be striped out and can be included in a > 0.1.0 release. If there would have been any critical parts missing in > SuperTux, I wouldn't have released it, but as it is SuperTux was > already bug-fix only for almost the last two weeks and nothing release > critical was left. > > > And there ARE bugs in SuperTux. > > As in every other app that is longer than 10 lines of code. > > > Or what's else this OpenGL problem about? > > Driver issue? Since the problem has been magically gone away for at > least one user without changes to SuperTux and since it works fine for > the rest, it after all has to be something very very obscure or on the > users side, not on the SuperTux one. =2D-=20 One of the disadvantages of having children is that they eventually get old enough to give you presents they make at school. -- Robert Byrne |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:26:19
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Hello, as a project maintainer I've accountability for all releases that get published of SuperTux. I feel this by getting mails after releases appear on news sites. The unofficial release made by Ingo conflicts with this. That's a single good reason to not accept releases, that are not made in accordance with the whole team. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Matze B. <ma...@br...> - 2004-05-03 13:25:34
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On Mon, 3 May 2004, Ricardo Cruz wrote: > > Hey there, > > Here goes just a few thoughts. (I really should stop doing this thinking > thing :D) > > Matze: So, your opinion is that the best way to find bugs is to just release > the game and let people to find them out. > > In my opinion, there should be quite a few testing and code probbing before > releasing anything. Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in > the 2 weeks, so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to > debug everything and get feedback about what we did. That's not what I said. And just for the record we did ALOT of testing we spend 2 weeks with it. That was not at all a careless release or anything. > > Futhermore, we are talking about a major move - 0.1 ! This is not another > minor version, so simple bugs, like the one that Tobias reported, should have > been squished by then! This is JUST 0.1, not 1.0. There's no such thing as bug-free software. Greetings, Matze |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:24:22
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > I have improved back scrolling code a bit and enabled it, in case the level > explicitly asks for it. Rather useless at this point. > So, do you think that any level shipped with SuperTux 0.1 should have back > scrolling at all? No, the lack of back scrolling was already decided a long time ago for Milestone1, beside backscrolling without horizontal scrolling is just weird. > I know it takes the fun of some levels, but there are some > like the "Above the Arctic Skies" and the last one that I think there is no > problem in enabling it. It changes the game mechanics, bad thing. > There is also this problem, I have used the read_bool(), but I don't know how > does the lisp parser identifies the boolean entries. It seems to check for t > or f , but it crashes when I try them... Help, anyone? Lisp (or better the lispreader) supports these datatypes: Boolean: #t, #f Symbols: foo, bar Strings: "foo", "bar" Real: 1.5 Integer: 15 How the numbers and booleans are used should be clear. I use Symbols in places where I want to map to a 'enum' (badguy type, section headings) and Strings where I can have abitarry string data (levelname, etc), -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Michael G. <mi...@ge...> - 2004-05-03 13:17:47
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I believe it uses #t and #f. --Mike Ricardo Cruz wrote: > Hey there, > > I have improved back scrolling code a bit and enabled it, in case the level > explicitly asks for it. > So, do you think that any level shipped with SuperTux 0.1 should have back > scrolling at all? I know it takes the fun of some levels, but there are some > like the "Above the Arctic Skies" and the last one that I think there is no > problem in enabling it. > > There is also this problem, I have used the read_bool(), but I don't know how > does the lisp parser identifies the boolean entries. It seems to check for t > or f , but it crashes when I try them... Help, anyone? > > Ricardo Cruz > |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:16:19
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 14:53: > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > This happens if you make an unofficial release. > > Whats bad about people sending in usefull bug reports about minor > issues? The prerelease and CVS have been long enough around for people > to test, but due to there 'hidden' nature (ie. not on happypenguin.org > frontpage) the number of testers will always be quite a lot lower on > them than with an official release and so little bugs slip through, > thats stuff that a 0.1.1 release is meant to fix then. I see nothing > wrong with that. What's wrong about having an official release that is communicated to all people involved before releasing? Did you ask something? You simply fail to have the rights to do such a "release". Releasing is the wrong word here anyway, I'd like to call it distributing a CVS snapshot. Technically: Your first step was apparently a news item on happypenguin, but I use to have the release package around for testing on the mailing-list for final error-checking. A bug fix 0.1.1 release isn't wrong, but a missing leveleditor is different from a bug. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:15:49
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I don't have to add anything here. I mailed the HappyPenguin authorities, but of course I know that Ingo has a longer arm there than me. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ricardo Cruz um 15:00: > Hey there, > > Here goes just a few thoughts. (I really should stop doing this thinking > thing :D) > > Matze: So, your opinion is that the best way to find bugs is to just release > the game and let people to find them out. > > In my opinion, there should be quite a few testing and code probbing before > releasing anything. Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in > the 2 weeks, so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to > debug everything and get feedback about what we did. > > Futhermore, we are talking about a major move - 0.1 ! This is not another > minor version, so simple bugs, like the one that Tobias reported, should have > been squished by then! > > I know everyone, especially the developers that worked hard, want to see > their work out there, but let's calm down, and wait before everything is > ready and everyone agrees in a release. This is not an individual effort and > so attitudes like the Ingo's one should not be encouraged. > Besides from that, we have someone that is responsible for the project > leading and that should be taken in consideration before announcing anything > that is related with the project. > > I already knew that Ingo was going to release a new version and I asked him > to at least changing the name. He did not do this, but he has further more, > abused his cvs access to make the webpage to point to his version, as if it > was a normal release. Besides from that, he posted the new version at the > Linux Game Tome, in order to force Tobias to assume his version as an > official one. > I have told Ingo more than once that I admire his work, but his attitude > should be just a bit *more* modest. > > That said, > Cheers, > > Ricardo Cruz > > > Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 13:36, o Matze Braun escreveu: > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Tobias [ISO-8859-1] Gläßer wrote: > > > This happens if you make an unofficial release. > > > I neither can nor will accept it. > > > > You really think it is possible to create a bug-free release? BTW: 0.0.6 > > contained more bugs than the current release - music crashs, opengl > > crashs/white graphics on win32, running in ducked mode, very odd behaviour > > when releasing a held laptop...) We worked really hard the last 2 weeks to > > get every single known bug out of this release. > > > > To get the game bugfree you actually need lots of people who test the > > game. The best way to get them is by releasing it. > > > > Greetings, > > Matze > > > > -- |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:14:04
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Matze Braun um 15:05: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Tobias [ISO-8859-1] Gler wrote: > > > Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Matze Braun um 14:36: > > > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Tobias [ISO-8859-1] Gläßer wrote: > > > > > > > This happens if you make an unofficial release. > > > > I neither can nor will accept it. > > > You really think it is possible to create a bug-free release? BTW: 0.0.6 > > > contained more bugs than the current release - music crashs, opengl > > > crashs/white graphics on win32, running in ducked mode, very odd behaviour > > > when releasing a held laptop...) We worked really hard the last 2 weeks to > > > get every single known bug out of this release. > > > > > > To get the game bugfree you actually need lots of people who test the > > > game. The best way to get them is by releasing it. > > > > The question is how you communicate the release! > > You may rename it into 0.1-light. > We already communicate this by 0.1! It's not 1.0. 1.0 is a whole other story, which will end up as "totally new game". 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. I could also have maked a 0.0.7 release, but I decided to skip it and aim for something that is bigger. I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 13:12:09
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Hey there, Here goes just a few thoughts. (I really should stop doing this thinking=20 thing :D) Matze: So, your opinion is that the best way to find bugs is to just relea= se=20 the game and let people to find them out. In my opinion, there should be quite a few testing and code probbing befor= e=20 releasing anything. Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in= =20 the 2 weeks, so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to= =20 debug everything and get feedback about what we did. Futhermore, we are talking about a major move - 0.1 ! This is not another= =20 minor version, so simple bugs, like the one that Tobias reported, should ha= ve=20 been squished by then! I know everyone, especially the developers that worked hard, want to see=20 their work out there, but let's calm down, and wait before everything is=20 ready and everyone agrees in a release. This is not an individual effort an= d=20 so attitudes like the Ingo's one should not be encouraged. Besides from that, we have someone that is responsible for the project=20 leading and that should be taken in consideration before announcing anythin= g=20 that is related with the project. I already knew that Ingo was going to release a new version and I asked hi= m=20 to at least changing the name. He did not do this, but he has further more,= =20 abused his cvs access to make the webpage to point to his version, as if it= =20 was a normal release. Besides from that, he posted the new version at the= =20 Linux Game Tome, in order to force Tobias to assume his version as an=20 official one. I have told Ingo more than once that I admire his work, but his attitude=20 should be just a bit *more* modest. That said, Cheers, Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 13:36, o Matze Braun escreveu: > On Mon, 3 May 2004, Tobias [ISO-8859-1] Gl=E4=DFer wrote: > > This happens if you make an unofficial release. > > I neither can nor will accept it. > > You really think it is possible to create a bug-free release? BTW: 0.0.6 > contained more bugs than the current release - music crashs, opengl > crashs/white graphics on win32, running in ducked mode, very odd behaviour > when releasing a held laptop...) We worked really hard the last 2 weeks to > get every single known bug out of this release. > > To get the game bugfree you actually need lots of people who test the > game. The best way to get them is by releasing it. > > Greetings, > Matze > > =2D-=20 =46ortune finishes the great quotations, #3 Birds of a feather flock to a newly washed car. |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 13:09:10
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > I don't have to tell you much. I could theoretically also make a 2.0 > release, if I like, > but I don't feel SuperTux being 0.1 in my view already. Then tell me what beside the leveleditor is missing? The game itself has been rock-solid for me and well, pretty much everybody else, since I haven't seen any bug reports recently. All the level have been playtested multiple times and have had a lot of little tweaking first by Wansti and then in a second run by myself. Wansti also added quite a handfull of hidden secrets. So there is really nothing more to be done in these levels itself. The story and the worldmap are finished and useable as well. There are a handfull of minor issues left in the Todo, but thats something you will ALWAYS have, a game is never complete or perfect, there is always yet a nother minor issue or bug to be fixed, just look at the commercial games out there. > I speak openly, just because you have a personal interest in making > a release fast as can there is this release now, which is not more > than a snapshot. Its not a snapshot, its a first Milestone1 release. With another 0.1.1 bugfix + leveleditor release comming in a few days/weeks or whenever the editor gets ready. The content, levels and enemies are all final. > The _0.0.7_'s release plans aims are nearly all completed, besides > the leveleditor issue. But before releasing 0.1 I want to have a > look over the whole code for a last time to ensure the best possible > quality and last but not least I simply don't have to accept your > move. The Milestone1 plans were also completed as well, 0.0.7 was already done a long time ago. And as always said, the build in leveleditor would be nice to have, but its not critical for playing the game, if it doesn't get ready it will be striped out and can be included in a 0.1.0 release. If there would have been any critical parts missing in SuperTux, I wouldn't have released it, but as it is SuperTux was already bug-fix only for almost the last two weeks and nothing release critical was left. > And there ARE bugs in SuperTux. As in every other app that is longer than 10 lines of code. > Or what's else this OpenGL problem about? Driver issue? Since the problem has been magically gone away for at least one user without changes to SuperTux and since it works fine for the rest, it after all has to be something very very obscure or on the users side, not on the SuperTux one. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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