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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 15:32:52
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Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 16:20, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > > ...just because of this sad situation. > > No need to be sad, lets party, after all Milestone1 is done, all left > is fixing small issues that show up. > For the record, i am not sad, i am not even astonished with what happen, since I already was seeing that this would happen sooner or later, that was why i had a few talks with you. I just used a figure of speech... when you attribute feelings to mere words, not sure how it is called in English. Ricardo -- X-rated movies are all alike ... the only thing they leave to the imagination is the plot. |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 15:29:48
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > If we keep Ingo's version has official we are just encouraging his > attitude. So this is all about you being right and me being wrong instead of what is good for the people out there playing the game? Now that sounds constructive... > Besides from that, it is very easy for making it to dissapear (just > remove it from the download page and contact the happypenguin > staff). I doubt that... -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 15:26:28
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > Really, if the problem is that you don't think you are well > credited, If that would be the problem I would have called it the 'Grumbel release' and added my name in big blinking letters into the start screen. > we could use descriptions as I already suggested (and did)! I already mentioned that I don't much like overly verbose descriptions. > You know what you have to do; reach a consensus, so let's discuss > that, instead of those futileness. Yep. -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 15:23:29
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Sorry, I was referring to Matze... Damn, you have similiar names, sorry. Peace, Ricardo Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 16:16, o Marek escreveu: > > Futhermore, you are the one that doesn't stop mailing me stupid mails, so > > you get drank, I am already calm. > > ??? > What stupid mails? > > Marek > -- As long as the answer is right, who cares if the question is wrong? |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 15:20:55
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > ...just because of this sad situation. No need to be sad, lets party, after all Milestone1 is done, all left is fixing small issues that show up. > So, in my opinion, I am willing to keep Ingo's version has the > official and as soon as the leveleditor is ready, merge it and > release a 0.1-(something). Without anything more, just the level > editor. Aehm, why -(something), why not 0.1.1? Version numbers are there for incrementing, not for appending funny names. > After this, we could fix a few more bugs and implement a couple of > things and release a 0.1.1 version. That would be 0.1.2 then, anyway, that are just little version number games, that are not really important. > Well, the other choice would be to remove Ingo's release from the homepage > and remove Happypenguin's entry, as well. You would have to remove it from freshmeat as well and no matter what you would confuse a hell of a lot people, pretty impractical after all. > It would be pretty trivial to do, I kind of doubt it. -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 15:18:04
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:29, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: >> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: >> > (who calms down and prepares an official release) >> >> As said, please remove all my work from that release then. > > Too late, it is under the GPL already :D Not really, the GPL doesn't apply much to graphics, beside that the graphics don't contain a license 'sticker'. Beside that you would already violate the GPL by not including the .xcf files for the images. In short GPL and images is a tricky thinc and only works because nobody has started questioning it. > Tobias already said he was sorry, now you also could ask for sorry > and then we would agree with a solution that keeps everyone happy :) Nope, sorry, not sorry about anything here, would repeat everything the same thing again if needed. Well, flamewars are just too much fun to be missed, aren't they ;) --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Marek <wa...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 15:17:21
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> Futhermore, you are the one that doesn't stop mailing me stupid mails, so you
>get drank, I am already calm.
>
>
???
What stupid mails?
Marek
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 15:10:39
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Well, the other choice would be to remove Ingo's release from the homepage and remove Happypenguin's entry, as well. It would be pretty trivial to do, though I wouldn't like this to happen, since this would mean a lot of internal conflicts and with an eventually lost of cvs access from Ingo's part. I don't think that was what Jesus taught us, so I am willing to make things in a way that everybody feels well with and thus I suggested that. Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:59, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu: > > So, in my opinion, I am willing to keep Ingo's version has the official > > and as soon as the leveleditor is ready, merge it and release a > > 0.1-(something). Without anything more, just the level editor. > > After this, we could fix a few more bugs and implement a couple of > > things and release a 0.1.1 version. > > > > Does everybody agree with this? > > Agreed. I don't think there's much choice, either. -- Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. -- Will Rogers |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 15:10:10
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Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:56, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > > He doesn't want to release the 0.1 because he wants to feed his > > ego. HE is the maintainer, for God sake! > > I consider the one in charge that does the work, I don't give much > about 'policital' positions. > > > You are the one that looks like to have done it :D > > Yep, because its ready, not because I wanted to have my name floating > at the top of the credits (which it doesn't). For the record, I was referring to 'done it' as in 'feed the ego', and Ingo's replay was 'Yep' :D Really, if the problem is that you don't think you are well credited, we could use descriptions as I already suggested (and did)! Besides, I think we are being well credited, your name appears in at least 3 sections! You know what you have to do; reach a consensus, so let's discuss that, instead of those futileness. Ricardo Cruz -- "Life sucks, but it's better than the alternative." -- Peter da Silva |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:56:19
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Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > He doesn't want to release the 0.1 because he wants to feed his > ego. HE is the maintainer, for God sake! I consider the one in charge that does the work, I don't give much about 'policital' positions. > You are the one that looks like to have done it :D Yep, because its ready, not because I wanted to have my name floating at the top of the credits (which it doesn't). -- WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/ JabberID: gr...@ja... ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-03 14:55:22
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> So, in my opinion, I am willing to keep Ingo's version has the official and > as soon as the leveleditor is ready, merge it and release a 0.1-(something). > Without anything more, just the level editor. > After this, we could fix a few more bugs and implement a couple of things and > release a 0.1.1 version. > > Does everybody agree with this? Agreed. I don't think there's much choice, either. |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:53:55
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > Please remove mine from yours. No, problem with that, if you prefer I can reuse my Windstille engine for that without to much problem, will just require a bit tweaking here and there =3D:) --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:52:20
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Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:29, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > (who calms down and prepares an official release) > > As said, please remove all my work from that release then. Too late, it is under the GPL already :D Really, you don't want to do that (even if you had the right to), Tobias=20 already said he was sorry, now you also could ask for sorry and then we wou= ld=20 agree with a solution that keeps everyone happy :) (look at my other post) Ricardo =2D-=20 You got to pay your dues if you want to sing the blues, And you know it don't come easy ... I don't ask for much, I only want trust, And you know it don't come easy ... |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:47:58
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Hey, I agree with Tobias, let's at least try to be tolerant with each other and= =20 find out a solution for this, that can please everybody. I already had bad feelings about Ingo due to personal reasons, besides tha= t I=20 don't want to become an enemy of Marek or any other developer just because = of=20 this sad situation. So, in my opinion, I am willing to keep Ingo's version has the official an= d=20 as soon as the leveleditor is ready, merge it and release a 0.1-(something)= =2E=20 Without anything more, just the level editor. After this, we could fix a few more bugs and implement a couple of things = and=20 release a 0.1.1 version. Does everybody agree with this? Hope so, Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:30, o Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer escreveu: > Hi folks, > > I guess we all followed this unfortunately discussion, > which leds to nothing but nothing. > > I hope that Ingo and I can begin to feel respect for > each other again. > > We aren't in a kindergarten and someone has to be the > first to end a worthless wrangle. > > I would really like to release the real 0.1.0, that > was intended from the beginning. Please agree > on this Ingo and make your great "release", that > shows the public how far we have come, a 0.1-light one. > > We can vote on this mailing-list, if we prefer this solution or > 0.1.1, which isn't a bugfix release as intended anymore in that case. > > Now let's shake hands. > > Greetz... > > Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer (hopes he calmed down enough) =2D-=20 To every Ph.D. there is an equal and opposite Ph.D. -- B. Duggan |
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From: Christopher A. W. <cr...@li...> - 2004-05-03 14:42:41
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<grumbel> how about Milestone1 - 0.1.1 <tobgle> hmm, sounds better I think we have things settled. Now let's get on with our lives! :) Christopher Allan Webber | The bottom line |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:39:27
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 16:29: > As said, please remove all my work from that release then. I sent this mail about being friends, but I have to make this last statement: Please remove mine from yours. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:37:23
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > I would really like to release the real 0.1.0, that > was intended from the beginning. Please agree > on this Ingo and make your great "release", that > shows the public how far we have come, a 0.1-light one. No, that is simply unaccebtable and useless. 0.1.0 is already out, released and done, if you like it or not, if you want to release a new version increament the version number, pretty easy and painless, that what they are for. > We can vote on this mailing-list, if we prefer this solution or > 0.1.1, which isn't a bugfix release as intended anymore in that case. Useless to vote here, since rereleasing a new version with the same name is just pointless and confusing. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Ingo R. <gr...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:32:11
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Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: >> Everything was ready, everything was already ready two weeks ago. The >> last two weeks already where bug squishing and polishing in huge part. >> There is no reason to extent that period even longer. > > What's about days? (Or even ONE day) Why one day, why not two, three, a week, a month? I already wanted this release to be out a week ago, but didn't to get the last bugs squished. Now that the bugs got squished for what more should I wait? There is always another bit of testing that can be done, you just have to make a deadline somewhere. > I appeared on the mailing-list and wrote about releasing 0.1 with > the leveleditor, didn't I? The leveleditor wasn't really getting better over the last month, so I just cut it, since there was little reason to wait for it to get ready and especially no timeline to see when it would be ready. >> You failed to give me a good reason to not release, thats all. > > So one can judge what's a good opinion for all the others? Well, you consider the editor important, I don't. Thats why I mentioned the 0.1.1 release to include the editor. I don't have anything about getting the editor included, there was just little reason to halt the whole release just to get the editor ready. > (who calms down and prepares an official release) As said, please remove all my work from that release then. --=20 WWW: http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/=20 JabberID: gr...@ja...=20 ICQ: 59461927 |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:27:06
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Hi folks, I guess we all followed this unfortunately discussion, which leds to nothing but nothing. I hope that Ingo and I can begin to feel respect for each other again. We aren't in a kindergarten and someone has to be the first to end a worthless wrangle. I would really like to release the real 0.1.0, that was intended from the beginning. Please agree on this Ingo and make your great "release", that shows the public how far we have come, a 0.1-light one. We can vote on this mailing-list, if we prefer this solution or 0.1.1, which isn't a bugfix release as intended anymore in that case. Now let's shake hands. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer (hopes he calmed down enough) -- |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:20:04
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Christopher seems to be the only sane person around :D For the love of God, Ingo, admit you were not correct and correct what you= =20 did. As Christopher said and I have told you many times, you were blessed=20 with many skills, your work is astonished, but you should try not to make=20 such a big head from it and to listen to the others. Ricardo Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:06, o Christopher A. Webber escreveu: > On Mon, 2004-05-03 at 08:39, Ingo Ruhnke wrote: > > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > 0.1 is missing a major feature and doesn't exist at the moment. > > > > Which would be what, the leveleditor? Which ended up being so > > important that none of the levels was build with it? > > > > > I simply ignore 0.1 and release 0.1 instead, that may sound strange, > > > but I don't like to be accountable for 3rd party releases. > > > > Then please strip all my graphics, levels and worldmap code from your > > 0.1 release, since I am sure you don't want to be accountable for that > > stuff that you didn't create yourself. > > Alright, calm down. Everyone is fairly frustrated at this point, but I > would reccomend that we take a few steps backward, take a deep breath, > and such. > SuperTux has gone a long way over these last few months. I know this is > a huge frustration, and honestly, I'm a bit disappointed that 0.1 was > released without a level editor at first myself. However, let's think > logically about this. > Ingo has done more than just valuable work for the project. He has made > phenomenal contributions to the project, and anyone who denies that is a > fool. But I don't think anyone is denying that. > However, we must keep in consideration the fact that this _is_ a > community. As such, we should keep consideration of each others' > feelings and opinions. And as such, a thing like a major release should > be well discussed within the community, to keep the community from > falling apart. > I'd like to point out that this is precisely what did not happen... and > precisely what is happening. > I understand why Ingo wanted to release this version at this time... but > shouldn't there have been more discussion than just "this will be > released May second, no matter what"? > Just my thoughts on the issue. I'd really rather not see this group > torn apart. I think most everyone will agree. > > Christopher Allan Webber > > > > The bottom line =2D-=20 Our father who art in heaven ... I sincerely pray that SOMEBODY at this table will PAY for my SHREDDED WHAT and ENGLISH MUFFIN ... and also leave a GENEROUS TIP .... |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:16:32
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It is not breaking, if you tried it, you would notice that it is working fine. Ricardo Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:03, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Ricardo Cruz <ri...@ae...> writes: > > I also made the level 13 to have back scrolling, mostly for testing > > purposes. So, run it (supertux data/levels/world1/level13.stl), if you > > wanna try it. > > How about doing this in the level subset instead of breaking the > official Milestone1 levels? -- In the pitiful, multipage, connection-boxed form to which the flowchart has today been elaborated, it has proved to be useless as a design tool -- programmers draw flowcharts after, not before, writing the programs they describe. - Fred Brooks, Jr. |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:15:13
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Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 15:06, o Ingo Ruhnke escreveu: > Tobias Gl=E4=DFer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > I wanted to release 0.1 anyway and I will do it! > > So just for ego reason you want to do the 0.1 yourself, right? Why not > call it 0.1.1 and everybody will be happy. > He doesn't want to release the 0.1 because he wants to feed his ego. HE is= =20 the maintainer, for God sake! You are the one that looks like to have done it :D Peace in the world, Ricardo =2D-=20 It's gonna be alright, It's almost midnight, And I've got two more bottles of wine. |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:15:09
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Let me note, that with this email I didn't act any better than Ingo. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer (who is ashamed) Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Tobias Gläßer um 16:08: > Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 15:54: > > And thats why 0.0.6 got that insane amount of gameplay and level > > testing that made it such a much better release than 0.1.0? > > Polemic. > > > > Besides, as you say, there was a lot of development in the 2 weeks, > > > so it is normal that we have to wait another two, in order to debug > > > everything and get feedback about what we did. > > > > And then there was again work in this two week and you have to wait > > another two weeks... Wait I have a suggestion, I let this release be > > called 0.1, while you can call yours "Super Tux Forever". > > Polemic. (where did 0.0.5 and 0.0.6 come from, uh oh?) > > > How again do you squish bugs that none of the testers found? You can > > either wait for all eternity for all bugs to be found or you can test > > it, fix found bugs, release it, fix the remaining bugs that people > > spot. > > Ok, that's not entirely wrong. > > > > Everything was ready, everything was already ready two weeks ago. The > > last two weeks already where bug squishing and polishing in huge part. > > There is no reason to extent that period even longer. > > What's about days? (Or even ONE day) > > > Tobis was 'missing in action' for huge parts of the last month, > > nothing wrong with that, it can happen, but don't expect other people > > to just wait then and not get work done. > > There is a difference between getting work done (which was solved > in great manner by all involved parties) and making a official release. > I appeared on the mailing-list and wrote about releasing 0.1 with > the leveleditor, didn't I? > > > You failed to give me a good reason to not release, thats all. > > So one can judge what's a good opinion for all the others? > (Polemic from my side) > > > Well, if you release a new version you kind of have to announce it. > > And as already mentioned, this is 0.1, not 1.0, its expected to not be > > the best most polished 'Yoshi Island Killer' game ever and you can > > already have a 0.1.1 without any problem in the next day. > > blabla ... > > Greetz... > > Tobias Gläßer (who calms down and prepares an official release) -- |
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From: Tobias <tob...@gm...> - 2004-05-03 14:12:45
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Am Mo, den 03.05.2004 schrieb Ingo Ruhnke um 16:06: > Tobias Gläßer <tob...@gm...> writes: > > > I wanted to release 0.1 anyway and I will do it! > > So just for ego reason you want to do the 0.1 yourself, right? Why not > call it 0.1.1 and everybody will be happy. Where does my feeling come from that you acted for ego reasons quite often now? Call your version 0.1-light and the problem is solved. > > It's likely to happen today and with a leveleditor built-in, that is > > working without flaws and all features required. > > Ricardo already broke one of the levels with his backscrolling, be > carefull with that. I use to be carefull, or at least I think. It's possible that I'm completly wrong with that. > How about letting the leveleditor be tested before the release? Its > still kind of 'fresh' code after all. Testing will happen before the release. Greetz... Tobias Gläßer -- |
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From: Ricardo C. <ri...@ae...> - 2004-05-03 14:09:50
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If we keep Ingo's version has official we are just encouraging his attitude. Besides from that, it is very easy for making it to dissapear (just remove it from the download page and contact the happypenguin staff). Futhermore, you are the one that doesn't stop mailing me stupid mails, so you get drank, I am already calm. Ricardo Cruz Em Segunda, 3 de Maio de 2004 14:56, o Marek escreveu: > Calm down you guys! > Let's just face the facts: > > There is a 0.1 release out. Releasing another 0.1 version doesn't make > any sense. > Thus, the next version (which was going to be the actual 0.1) will now > be called 0.1.1. So what? > Next version will be acknoledged by all of you, with project leader > Tobias having the final word, before release. > Now just grab a glass of fine scotch whisky, get some sleep and calm the > f**k down. It's happened, and it's not that a big deal. > And please, stop taking it out on public (i.e. happypenguin) forums. > That's really embarassing. > > I like what SuperTux has become, and you all did a great job. Now just > stop making such a fuss about this issue. In return, I will now stop > babbling. :) > > Marek > > -- We totally deny the allegations, and we're trying to identify the allegators. |
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