springframework-developer — Spring Framework developers list

RE: [Springframework-developer] webflow, jetty request parameters

[Keith D. <ke...@in...>]

Serge,

The first issue (array request params) has been fixed for 1.0 RC1 nightly.

The second issue (samples) is still outstanding.  Can you create a JIRA?

Thanks,

Keith 

-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf Of
Serge Bogatyrjov
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:17 AM
To: spr...@li...
Subject: [Springframework-developer] webflow, jetty request parameters

Hi,


I am using jetty6. Jetty particular request parameters processing make it
impossible to use webflow with jetty. I do not sure this container to do
things in right way. But I have found we can make the webflow to run with
jetty.

The weak spot in webflow is
'HttpServletRequestParameterMap.getAttribute(String
key)' method. It makes the following call:


request.getParameterValues(key);


Jetty returns String[0] for a unknown parameter. But this case is not
provided.
This is original code:


        if (parameters == null) {

            return null;

        } else if (parameters.length == 1) {

            return parameters[0];

        } else {

            return parameters;

        }


Here is my variant:



        if (parameters == null) {

            return null;

                } else if (parameters.length == 0) {

                        return null;

        } else if (parameters.length == 1) {

            return parameters[0];

        } else {

            return parameters;

        }



I have found another small problem with webflow samples. All samples
contains invalid value for a 'webAppRootKey' context parameter in web.xml.
For example, in the sample phonebook the parameter value is
"phonebook.root", but the valid value is "swf-phonebook.root", because
assebly artifact is "swf-phonebook.war".


Serge Bogatyrjov. 



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[Springframework-developer] webflow, jetty request parameters

[Serge B. <ser...@gm...>]

Hi,


I am using jetty6. Jetty particular request parameters processing make it
impossible to use webflow with jetty. I do not sure this container to do things
in right way. But I have found we can make the webflow to run with jetty.

The weak spot in webflow is 'HttpServletRequestParameterMap.getAttribute(String
key)' method. It makes the following call:


request.getParameterValues(key);


Jetty returns String[0] for a unknown parameter. But this case is not provided.
This is original code:


        if (parameters == null) {

            return null;

        } else if (parameters.length == 1) {

            return parameters[0];

        } else {

            return parameters;

        }


Here is my variant:



        if (parameters == null) {

            return null;

                } else if (parameters.length == 0) {

                        return null;

        } else if (parameters.length == 1) {

            return parameters[0];

        } else {

            return parameters;

        }



I have found another small problem with webflow samples. All samples contains
invalid value for a 'webAppRootKey' context parameter in web.xml. For example,
in the sample phonebook the parameter value is "phonebook.root", but the valid
value is "swf-phonebook.root", because assebly artifact is "swf-phonebook.war".


Serge Bogatyrjov. 

[Springframework-developer] LSFB and hbm2ddl tool

[Yujin K. <net...@gm...>]

Hi

We noticed some inconsistent behavior between Spring's LSFB and
Hibernate's hbm2ddl SchemaUpdate tool.

http://anonhibernate.labs.jboss.com/trunk/Hibernate3/src/org/ 
hibernate/tool/hbm2ddl/SchemaUpdate.java
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/springframework/spring/src/org/ 
springframework/orm/hibernate3/LocalSessionFactoryBean.java? 
rev=1.29&view=auto

It appears LSFB is utilizing db dialect but not the (Hibernate's)
DatabaseMetadata which causes the generate script to contain
incompatible datatypes.

We are doing schema create/drop/update as a part of integration build,
and when using hbm2ddl tool, it works fine on mysql/hsql/oracle/ms- 
sql/psql but if
we use LSFB to do the same, it fails on some of the older databases.

It appears the DDL script generated by LSFB produces the script that
is compatible only with the most updated version of the database, so for
example oracle 9i, it generated type "bit" which didn't work on the
version of oracle we are running here.  Similarly to mysql 4.1, it
was trying to look up the database metadata from "information_schema"
which appears to be a mysql 5.x thing.

While I  am not 100% sure whether it was due to the fact LSFB is not
passing DatabaseMetadata for script generation, it looks like a good  
candidate.  I think it's pretty clear how LSFB is processing it is  
slightly different from hbm2ddl tool.

While at it, I personally think it will also be useful if LSFB has an
option to generate the DDL script to the specific (or default)
location to allow more advanced tweaking etc by the dbas later on.

I would like to go back to use LSFB to handle the schema generation
and hence would provide any support on this issue anyway I can.

Thanks

Yujin Kim
Vivakos, Inc

Re: [Springframework-developer] Batch processing with hibernate

[Juergen H. <ju...@in...>]

Why couldn't you use HibernateTransactionManager in combination with =
such
data access code based on HibernateTemplate?

HibernateTransactionManager doesn't do much more than open a Session, =
start
a transaction - and eventually commit the transaction and close the =
Session.
You can do any number of flush or clear calls inbetween...

Of course, if there's anything specific we can offer in
HibernateTransactionManager to better support such batch-style data =
access,
we are certainly open to it.

Juergen
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf =
Of
Meyer, Stefan
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:57 PM
To: spr...@li...
Subject: [Springframework-developer] Batch processing with hibernate

Hi,

We need batch processing support for hibernate. The processing should =
take
place in one transaction and the list of processed entities must be =
selected
with "select ... For update". HibernateTransactionManager does not =
support
this. The reason is presumably that the first-level cache does not =
support
rollbacks. I think that it is possible nevertheless if you follow the
following rules:

1. flush before setting a savepoint
2. clear the session before rolling back to a savepoint

The consequences of the second point are usually not a problem in batch
processing. Consider the recommended approach:

--------------  hibernate.org

Session session =3D sessionFactory.openSession(); Transaction tx =3D
session.beginTransaction();
  =20
ScrollableResults customers =3D session.getNamedQuery("GetCustomers")
    .setCacheMode(CacheMode.IGNORE)
    .scroll(ScrollMode.FORWARD_ONLY);
int count=3D0;
while ( customers.next() ) {
    Customer customer =3D (Customer) customers.get(0);
    customer.updateStuff(...);
    if ( ++count % 20 =3D=3D 0 ) {
        //flush a batch of updates and release memory:
        session.flush();
        session.clear();
    }
}
  =20
tx.commit();
session.close();

-------------

Clearing the session after or before processing an entity returned from =
the
cursor will only result in slower performance  when loading certain
entities.

We have implemented this kind of batch processing but support by
hibernateTransactionManager would make our life a lot easier.



--
Stefan Meyer
Entwicklung

s....@s2...
T: +49.40.80 81 69-347

SinnerSchrader Neue Informatik
>> Software. Design. Interfaces.
http://www.s2neueinformatik.de/
 =20


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting =
language
that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live =
webcast
and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding =
territory!
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Re: [Springframework-developer] Batch processing with hibernate

[Enrique M. <e.m...@gm...>]

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[Springframework-developer] Batch processing with hibernate

[Meyer, S. <S....@S2...>]

Hi,

We need batch processing support for hibernate. The processing should
take place in one transaction and the list of processed entities must be
selected with "select ... For update". HibernateTransactionManager does
not support this. The reason is presumably that the first-level cache
does not support rollbacks. I think that it is possible nevertheless if
you follow the following rules:

1. flush before setting a savepoint
2. clear the session before rolling back to a savepoint

The consequences of the second point are usually not a problem in batch
processing. Consider the recommended approach:

--------------  hibernate.org

Session session =3D sessionFactory.openSession();
Transaction tx =3D session.beginTransaction();
  =20
ScrollableResults customers =3D session.getNamedQuery("GetCustomers")
    .setCacheMode(CacheMode.IGNORE)
    .scroll(ScrollMode.FORWARD_ONLY);
int count=3D0;
while ( customers.next() ) {
    Customer customer =3D (Customer) customers.get(0);
    customer.updateStuff(...);
    if ( ++count % 20 =3D=3D 0 ) {
        //flush a batch of updates and release memory:
        session.flush();
        session.clear();
    }
}
  =20
tx.commit();
session.close();

-------------

Clearing the session after or before processing an entity returned from
the cursor will only result in slower performance  when loading certain
entities.

We have implemented this kind of batch processing but support by
hibernateTransactionManager would make our life a lot easier.



--
Stefan Meyer
Entwicklung

s....@s2...
T: +49.40.80 81 69-347

SinnerSchrader Neue Informatik
>> Software. Design. Interfaces.
http://www.s2neueinformatik.de/
 =20

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Yujin K. <net...@gm...>]

jetty has a runner you can use.  it's not quite stable yet but if you =20=

run mvn jetty6:runner or something, it starts up your webapp in jsp/=20
servlet container.
it would be nice to have one like that for tomcat though.

m2 supports archetype, so you can easily generate a skeleton project.

as for controller, model, etc, we need is java line syntax but is a =20
scripting language and allows dynamic casting (sounds awfully like =20
javascript).  :-)

Yujin

On Mar 27, 2006, at 7:08 PM, Seth Ladd wrote:

>> I'm going to give it a shot and see what I can do with the M2 script
>> support, a basic object mapper and TJWS.
>
> Don't forget the scripts that:
>
> - create new project
> - start/stop the server
> - create new controller, model, etc
> - run all tests
>
> :)
>
> Seth
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting =20
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the =20
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding =20
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642=

> _______________________________________________
> Springframework-developer mailing list
> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Seth L. <set...@gm...>]

> I'm going to give it a shot and see what I can do with the M2 script
> support, a basic object mapper and TJWS.

Don't forget the scripts that:

- create new project
- start/stop the server
- create new controller, model, etc
- run all tests

:)

Seth

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Darren D. <da...@da...>]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 03:59:21PM -0500, Keith Donald wrote:
> What's most constraining about the Servlet API in your opinion?  Is it the
> API really? Or is something with the implementations of it that concern y=
ou?

I don't think the API itself is badly designed, or that it makes it
difficult to develop against.  Nor do I think the well known servlet
containers are badly implemented - quite the contrary in many cases.

The constraint is *requiring* a servlet container.  The general assumption
is that to run any Java based web framework, you need Tomcat (or similar) at
minimum - a reasonable assumption because it happens to hold true for most
frameworks.  With the servlet container comes dependencies I might not
want, configuration I can't be bothered with, and (re)deployment
issues I'd prefer to avoid.

I agree with Seth that this is something Java tends to do badly - a
necessary evil of the compilation step perhaps, but one that can be avoided.
The client I'm working for now has business users that are raising issues
over the length of time it takes the development team to implement minor
chages to their production web applications.  40 minutes is way too long
apparently.

> What problems do you believe need a scripting solution in the web-tier?

fix re-deployment and permit loose/dynamic typing.


> curious--it'd be interesting to consider integration of a scripting
> technology into the Web Flow engine, and where they might fit.

It's important to ensure that the scripting just works.  If there's a need
to start configuring beans, XML files or whatever just to be able to start
writing code, it's missing half the point.  I know Rob's pointed out that
the scripting is there now but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet and
I don't know what's involved in making it work.

Again, I agree with Seth about how easy we have to make it to start coding.
Anything less than you get now with the Ruby and Python frameworks is
missing the boat.  That means not relying on a separate container to deploy
into, but providing a minimal one that gets your scripts working instantly
(no problem if they want to later deploy to Tomcat or JBoss).
It means not expecting the user to choose and configure a templating
technology, but providing one pre-configured (fine - they can change it
themselves later).  It means not asking them to build an admin interface
around their model, but providing one that adapts to the model as they build
it (ok, let them swap it for a different JMX server later).

So, I was going to now come back to the servlet API and say that to ship a
compliant container would make it difficult to achieve a fast, light, zero
config startup option.  Then I came across this
<http://tjws.sourceforge.net/> which kind of blew my argument away.  (I
haven't tried it, but if it works, it could be perfect).

I'm going to give it a shot and see what I can do with the M2 script
support, a basic object mapper and TJWS. =20

--=20
Darren Davison
Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Rob H. <ro...@in...>]

Just to interject here - scripting has been present since M2 with  
BSH, JRuby and Groovy.

Rob
On 26 Mar 2006, at 18:36, Darren Davison wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 06:29:12AM -0500, Keith Donald wrote:
>> Hey Darren,
>>
>> Could you maybe summarize what you see in Django that would be good
>> influence for future enhancements to Spring's web stack?  Would be  
>> good to
>> consider and discuss those for the 2.x series and beyond...
>>
>> One of the features I see on a brief glance I think is important  
>> is the
>> ability to design your on URL scheme using URL mapping expressions.
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> In my opinion, the biggest barrier to leaner, more dynamic Java web
> frameworks is the Servlet API itself.  RoR, Django, CherryPy and  
> others
> aren't constrained by it and manage to do pretty well for  
> themselves.  What
> does the requirement for an implementation of this API buy for the  
> large
> number of enterprise web apps which are basically CRUD wrappers  
> around a
> database?  Many of the existing frameworks in Java land are  
> starting to look
> a bit too heavy for this compared to the ease of setting up in Ruby or
> Python.
>
> The ability to map URL's directly to objects or methods via  
> something as
> simple as regex declarations lowers the barriers to entry greatly  
> and makes
> a simple web layer very quick to knock up.  OOWeb for example (a  
> simple Java
> port of CherryPy that a colleague and I wrote last year just to  
> prove the
> point) offers a complete web novice the ability to start generating  
> dynamic
> web content in less than 10 minutes.  You get request parameter  
> binding to
> your methods, form handling, security, logging, session replication  
> and a
> simple built-in HTTP server in a jar that's around 60KB in size  
> with zero
> additional dependencies.  OK, so it's prototype stuff, but its  
> purpose was
> to show that if you don't constrain yourself to the "standard" way of
> thinking (Servlet API), you can do quite a lot of stuff with  
> greater ease
> and speed.  OOWeb is in fact being used in a couple of small  
> production
> sites anyway, but if we were to look at it seriously, we'd probably  
> take the
> HTTP engine from Jetty or something and build the object mapper  
> around that.
>
> The other aspect is the scriptability of the web tier.  I know the  
> dynamic
> stuff around BSF bean definitions hasn't really gone anywhere since  
> it was
> mooted a couple of years ago, but this may be the best way forward  
> if we
> want to hang on to the coat tails of things like Python and Ruby.   
> Jython
> development seems to have stalled, which is a shame, and Groovy  
> doesn't
> really appear to be building on the momentum it looked like having  
> a while
> back either, but perhaps being first class citizens in a major web  
> framework
> would help.
>
> Consider the Java web application framework "sans Servlet  
> Container", and
> Spring seems to be in a perfect position to exploit an  
> opportunity.  After
> all, we already have a fantastic container and all the goodies you  
> need to
> create a full featured service and data tier.  If you could throw  
> up a web
> tier around your database in the same sort of time that you can be
> productive in Django and RoR (including re-code and re-load  
> semantics) then
> that might be attractive to a lot of people who are currently  
> flirting with
> the more dynamic upstarts.  Having the Java bindings available from  
> web
> scripts to the Spring container or other "Enterprise" deployed  
> components is
> the USP that the others don't have.
>
> "Spring WebScript" - imagine the possibilities :)
>
> -- 
> Darren Davison
> Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

RE: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Keith D. <ke...@in...>]

Darren,

What's most constraining about the Servlet API in your opinion?  Is it the
API really? Or is something with the implementations of it that concern you?

I whole-heartedly agree the ability to map URLs directly to methods on
java.lang.Objects is a important feature--exactly what I saw in Django that
I liked.

We are doing this now with Spring Web Flow, where you have declarative
request path binding as well as request parameter binding.  The binding
machinery there is fully generic as well, part of
spring-projects/spring-binding (a separate library currently driven by Web
Flow's needs).

I'm not sure how many folks realize this, but Spring Web Flow at its core is
a generic controller engine (independent of the Servlet API in fact).  The
same engine can be used to orchestrate both stateless and stateful flows.
The XML configuration format folks identify most with it is targeted at
orchestrating multi-step (stateful) navigations, because that's been the
focus of the product to-date, but there is a real opportunity to engineer
specific controller packs that build-in convenience for common flows (like
mapping a single request URL to a strongly-typed Java method invocation
automatically, with support for type-conversion and validation during that
process, and automatic exposure of any return value to the view).

What problems do you believe need a scripting solution in the web-tier?  I'm
curious--it'd be interesting to consider integration of a scripting
technology into the Web Flow engine, and where they might fit.

Good stuff,

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf Of
Darren Davison
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:36 PM
To: spr...@li...
Subject: Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for
Spring

On Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 06:29:12AM -0500, Keith Donald wrote:
> Hey Darren,
> 
> Could you maybe summarize what you see in Django that would be good 
> influence for future enhancements to Spring's web stack?  Would be 
> good to consider and discuss those for the 2.x series and beyond...
> 
> One of the features I see on a brief glance I think is important is 
> the ability to design your on URL scheme using URL mapping expressions.

Hi Keith,

In my opinion, the biggest barrier to leaner, more dynamic Java web
frameworks is the Servlet API itself.  RoR, Django, CherryPy and others
aren't constrained by it and manage to do pretty well for themselves.  What
does the requirement for an implementation of this API buy for the large
number of enterprise web apps which are basically CRUD wrappers around a
database?  Many of the existing frameworks in Java land are starting to look
a bit too heavy for this compared to the ease of setting up in Ruby or
Python.

The ability to map URL's directly to objects or methods via something as
simple as regex declarations lowers the barriers to entry greatly and makes
a simple web layer very quick to knock up.  OOWeb for example (a simple Java
port of CherryPy that a colleague and I wrote last year just to prove the
point) offers a complete web novice the ability to start generating dynamic
web content in less than 10 minutes.  You get request parameter binding to
your methods, form handling, security, logging, session replication and a
simple built-in HTTP server in a jar that's around 60KB in size with zero
additional dependencies.  OK, so it's prototype stuff, but its purpose was
to show that if you don't constrain yourself to the "standard" way of
thinking (Servlet API), you can do quite a lot of stuff with greater ease
and speed.  OOWeb is in fact being used in a couple of small production
sites anyway, but if we were to look at it seriously, we'd probably take the
HTTP engine from Jetty or something and build the object mapper around that.

The other aspect is the scriptability of the web tier.  I know the dynamic
stuff around BSF bean definitions hasn't really gone anywhere since it was
mooted a couple of years ago, but this may be the best way forward if we
want to hang on to the coat tails of things like Python and Ruby.  Jython
development seems to have stalled, which is a shame, and Groovy doesn't
really appear to be building on the momentum it looked like having a while
back either, but perhaps being first class citizens in a major web framework
would help.

Consider the Java web application framework "sans Servlet Container", and
Spring seems to be in a perfect position to exploit an opportunity.  After
all, we already have a fantastic container and all the goodies you need to
create a full featured service and data tier.  If you could throw up a web
tier around your database in the same sort of time that you can be
productive in Django and RoR (including re-code and re-load semantics) then
that might be attractive to a lot of people who are currently flirting with
the more dynamic upstarts.  Having the Java bindings available from web
scripts to the Spring container or other "Enterprise" deployed components is
the USP that the others don't have.

"Spring WebScript" - imagine the possibilities :)

--
Darren Davison
Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Seth L. <set...@gm...>]

> productive in Django and RoR (including re-code and re-load semantics) th=
en
> that might be attractive to a lot of people who are currently flirting wi=
th
> the more dynamic upstarts.  Having the Java bindings available from web
> scripts to the Spring container or other "Enterprise" deployed components=
 is
> the USP that the others don't have.
>
> "Spring WebScript" - imagine the possibilities :)

To continue on with this point, one of the huge attractions of RoR and
Django is their ability to keep the developer coding at a high
velocity.  By removing any sort of compilation or deployment steps, I
get to write unit tests and code at a very high rate.

One of the large stumbling blocks of Java web app development has
always been deployment.  Get rid of that, and you've taken a huge step
to productivity.  This is why I'd like to see Wedge built with the
assumption that I should never have to redeploy the application or
restart the server.  It simply can't be tolerated any more.  Just let
me say 'ant server' and it starts Jetty, the environment, and I'm off
and running.

Another thing a modern Java web framework must have is a nice set of
scripts which generate a Fresh, New, Blank application.  Just
standardize on a directory layout.  Then provide a script like 'ant
new MyApp' and it creates *everything* you need.

And finally, if you read the last sentence carefully, I'm hinting that
a modern web framework is all inclusive.  'ant new MyApp' works only
if you provide everything a developer needs, which includes an ORM
framework.  Yes, a modern web framework provides everything you need:
limit my choices, integrate everything, and get me up and running
immediately.  No more of this "Here's 10% of what you need, now, go
and choose the other 90% which means go find a ORM package, a template
package, etc"

One thing that Java apps can do that RoR isn't doing now is stateful
objects.  Look at what Seam is doing, or the new stateful Spring
stuff.  RoR isn't doing that, and it's a chance to jump straight over
RoR in this respect.  Stateless architectures are overrated.  What can
we do in the stateful world, especially now that Wedge is mapping
straight to POJOs.

Seth

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Darren D. <da...@da...>]

On Sun, Mar 26, 2006 at 06:29:12AM -0500, Keith Donald wrote:
> Hey Darren,
>=20
> Could you maybe summarize what you see in Django that would be good
> influence for future enhancements to Spring's web stack?  Would be good to
> consider and discuss those for the 2.x series and beyond...
>=20
> One of the features I see on a brief glance I think is important is the
> ability to design your on URL scheme using URL mapping expressions.

Hi Keith,

In my opinion, the biggest barrier to leaner, more dynamic Java web
frameworks is the Servlet API itself.  RoR, Django, CherryPy and others
aren't constrained by it and manage to do pretty well for themselves.  What
does the requirement for an implementation of this API buy for the large
number of enterprise web apps which are basically CRUD wrappers around a
database?  Many of the existing frameworks in Java land are starting to look
a bit too heavy for this compared to the ease of setting up in Ruby or
Python.

The ability to map URL's directly to objects or methods via something as
simple as regex declarations lowers the barriers to entry greatly and makes
a simple web layer very quick to knock up.  OOWeb for example (a simple Java
port of CherryPy that a colleague and I wrote last year just to prove the
point) offers a complete web novice the ability to start generating dynamic
web content in less than 10 minutes.  You get request parameter binding to
your methods, form handling, security, logging, session replication and a
simple built-in HTTP server in a jar that's around 60KB in size with zero
additional dependencies.  OK, so it's prototype stuff, but its purpose was
to show that if you don't constrain yourself to the "standard" way of
thinking (Servlet API), you can do quite a lot of stuff with greater ease
and speed.  OOWeb is in fact being used in a couple of small production
sites anyway, but if we were to look at it seriously, we'd probably take the
HTTP engine from Jetty or something and build the object mapper around that.

The other aspect is the scriptability of the web tier.  I know the dynamic
stuff around BSF bean definitions hasn't really gone anywhere since it was
mooted a couple of years ago, but this may be the best way forward if we
want to hang on to the coat tails of things like Python and Ruby.  Jython
development seems to have stalled, which is a shame, and Groovy doesn't
really appear to be building on the momentum it looked like having a while
back either, but perhaps being first class citizens in a major web framework
would help.

Consider the Java web application framework "sans Servlet Container", and
Spring seems to be in a perfect position to exploit an opportunity.  After
all, we already have a fantastic container and all the goodies you need to
create a full featured service and data tier.  If you could throw up a web
tier around your database in the same sort of time that you can be
productive in Django and RoR (including re-code and re-load semantics) then
that might be attractive to a lot of people who are currently flirting with
the more dynamic upstarts.  Having the Java bindings available from web
scripts to the Spring container or other "Enterprise" deployed components is
the USP that the others don't have.

"Spring WebScript" - imagine the possibilities :)

--=20
Darren Davison=20
Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

RE: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Keith D. <ke...@in...>]

Hey Darren,

Could you maybe summarize what you see in Django that would be good
influence for future enhancements to Spring's web stack?  Would be good to
consider and discuss those for the 2.x series and beyond...

One of the features I see on a brief glance I think is important is the
ability to design your on URL scheme using URL mapping expressions.

Cheers,

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf Of
da...@da...
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:10 AM
To: spr...@li...
Subject: Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for
Spring

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 11:26:29AM -1000, Seth Ladd wrote:
> Then might I recommend that if it doesn't already exist, provide an 
> ant runtime for your application, and bundle Jetty.  That is, make it
> *insanely* easy to start a new wedge runtime.  Part of what a modern 
> Java web framework must do, imho, is provide everything you need to 
> get started out of the box. This includes the scripts to start and 
> stop the app.  In other words, wedge should be a self bundled and 
> integrated package, not Yet Another Servlet with XML Config.  See how 
> Rails works with its 'ruby scripts/server'.  There should be something 
> like 'ant server'.

If you're familiar with Python, take a look at Django
<http://www.djangoproject.com>.  Similar to RoR (but better IMHO) and the
way much of the cutting edge seems to be moving now in terms of web
development.  Java frameworks are going to need to become a lot leaner in
all respects to keep up.

--
Darren Davison
Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[<da...@da...>]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 11:26:29AM -1000, Seth Ladd wrote:
> Then might I recommend that if it doesn't already exist, provide an
> ant runtime for your application, and bundle Jetty.  That is, make it
> *insanely* easy to start a new wedge runtime.  Part of what a modern
> Java web framework must do, imho, is provide everything you need to
> get started out of the box. This includes the scripts to start and
> stop the app.  In other words, wedge should be a self bundled and
> integrated package, not Yet Another Servlet with XML Config.  See how
> Rails works with its 'ruby scripts/server'.  There should be something
> like 'ant server'.

If you're familiar with Python, take a look at Django
<http://www.djangoproject.com>.  Similar to RoR (but better IMHO) and the
way much of the cutting edge seems to be moving now in terms of web
development.  Java frameworks are going to need to become a lot leaner in
all respects to keep up.

--=20
Darren Davison
Public Key: 0xDD356B0D

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Steven D. <ste...@gm...>]

On 3/25/06, Seth Ladd <set...@gm...> wrote:
> > Yes, you need to restart the application and regenerate the code as you
> > make changes to the pages. But:
> > 1. I use jetty as an embedded server which is very practical and rapid
> > way to develop application. It does not take to much time to restart th=
e
> > server.
>
> Then might I recommend that if it doesn't already exist, provide an
> ant runtime for your application, and bundle Jetty.  That is, make it
> *insanely* easy to start a new wedge runtime.  Part of what a modern
> Java web framework must do, imho, is provide everything you need to
> get started out of the box. This includes the scripts to start and
> stop the app.  In other words, wedge should be a self bundled and
> integrated package, not Yet Another Servlet with XML Config.  See how
> Rails works with its 'ruby scripts/server'.  There should be something
> like 'ant server'.
>
> > 2. I've made the ANT task only for generating the pages. The generation
> > requires all the application to be on the class path such that I start =
a
> > new java process to do that. This takes time, about 5 sec for my 5 page=
s
> > app. With the following code the time reduces to 1 sec.
>
> What about 250 pages?  Does it only generate code for pages that have cha=
nged?
>
> > About defaults and conventions, I have been thinking to introduce them.
> > But still, I need a way to figure out which spring beans are wedge
> > components and which are not. More, you are not bound to spring, you ca=
n
>
> For simplicity's sake, I would bind it to Spring.  Why make it
> optional?  The more conventions the easier it is to learn and build
> things.  If someone wants to rip out Spring, they can do the work.  I
> wouldn't err on the side of pluggability at this stage in the game, I
> would focus on ease of use and quickness of development.
>
> > specify any kind of path that XmlWebApplicationContext can manage. The
> > file name is not always suitable for being an id
>
> This is where conventions kick in.  First, you look for the bean in
> the ApplicationContext.  If you don't find it, you can delegate to
> some sort of Resolver that knows how to do the mapping.  The important
> part is, you first try the rule.
>

Amen. For me http://host/myapp/home should point to the 'home' bean in
Spring and map to /WEB-INF/home.html. These are two conventions that
are easy to implement and easy to overwrite. And as a consequence, no
XML for most configurations.

Another remark about the generation of the mapping between controller
and html: if you parse the HTML once - on the first request - you can
easily compose - as in composition - a hierarchy of objects that
render the result. You already parse the HTML and creating the
composition should be much easier than generating Java code or
bytecode. It also would be fully dynamic and can be easily
regenerated.

To me the fact that the controller is a POJO is a big big plus since
this means any POJO can be the model/controller, also the return value
of a method invocation. This my friend is the way to go with wedge. Go
boldy where no man has gone before and tie web requests to methods,
kind of like Web Flow does but more direct.

To provide an example of what I mean, say you have a Person object:

public class Person {
   private String firstname;
   private String lastname;

   /* getters and constructor ommitted */
}

And a method that looks up a Person object:

public class PersonMapper {
   public Person findPersonById(int id) {
      // do stuff to find Person object and return
   }
}

You can call the findPersonById() method and bind the 'id' request
parameter to the id argument of the method.

After the method executes you have the POJO to use as your model, and
you don't need form backing objects anymore.

To configure this the XML below suffices, and like Seth says this can
be a Spring 2.0 custom schema:

<wedge:request uri=3D"/personDetail"
method=3D"personMapperBean.findPersonById(id)"/>

This would make wedge a very cool framework in my opinion, one that's
ready for the future.

> > Unfortunately I do not see how I can make the wedge framework to work
> > without any kind of information source.
>
> I know you can do it. :)  If anything, don't introduce Yet Another XML
> File.  Use Spring 2.0's new XML Schema aware XML files.  You can write
> your own namespace handlers, and thus it's like you are making your
> own XML file, yet you get to use all of the Spring XML definition
> framework.
>
> Seth
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua=
ge
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc=
ast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor=
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> _______________________________________________
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> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
>
>


--
Steven Devijver
Senior Consultant
Interface21
Spring Services from the Source
http://www.interface21.com

Co-author, "Expert Spring MVC and Web Flow"
(February 2006, with Seth Ladd, Darren Davison, and Colin Yates)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159059584X

Interface21 NL B.V.
Donker Curtiusstraat 7-400c
1051JL Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Phone: +31 (0)20 486 47 63
Fax: +31 (0)20 475 08 28
Mail: st...@in...
Skype: devijvers

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Seth L. <set...@gm...>]

> Yes, you need to restart the application and regenerate the code as you
> make changes to the pages. But:
> 1. I use jetty as an embedded server which is very practical and rapid
> way to develop application. It does not take to much time to restart the
> server.

Then might I recommend that if it doesn't already exist, provide an
ant runtime for your application, and bundle Jetty.  That is, make it
*insanely* easy to start a new wedge runtime.  Part of what a modern
Java web framework must do, imho, is provide everything you need to
get started out of the box. This includes the scripts to start and
stop the app.  In other words, wedge should be a self bundled and
integrated package, not Yet Another Servlet with XML Config.  See how
Rails works with its 'ruby scripts/server'.  There should be something
like 'ant server'.

> 2. I've made the ANT task only for generating the pages. The generation
> requires all the application to be on the class path such that I start a
> new java process to do that. This takes time, about 5 sec for my 5 pages
> app. With the following code the time reduces to 1 sec.

What about 250 pages?  Does it only generate code for pages that have chang=
ed?

> About defaults and conventions, I have been thinking to introduce them.
> But still, I need a way to figure out which spring beans are wedge
> components and which are not. More, you are not bound to spring, you can

For simplicity's sake, I would bind it to Spring.  Why make it
optional?  The more conventions the easier it is to learn and build
things.  If someone wants to rip out Spring, they can do the work.  I
wouldn't err on the side of pluggability at this stage in the game, I
would focus on ease of use and quickness of development.

> specify any kind of path that XmlWebApplicationContext can manage. The
> file name is not always suitable for being an id

This is where conventions kick in.  First, you look for the bean in
the ApplicationContext.  If you don't find it, you can delegate to
some sort of Resolver that knows how to do the mapping.  The important
part is, you first try the rule.

> Unfortunately I do not see how I can make the wedge framework to work
> without any kind of information source.

I know you can do it. :)  If anything, don't introduce Yet Another XML
File.  Use Spring 2.0's new XML Schema aware XML files.  You can write
your own namespace handlers, and thus it's like you are making your
own XML file, yet you get to use all of the Spring XML definition
framework.

Seth

[Springframework-developer] Re: Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Jeremy T. <jer...@gm...>]

I also agree that it is a nice concept, but I think adoption will be
hurt by the constant re-deploy problem. We use Jetty in Eclipse as
well, but depend on being able to make Tapestry page changes and see
them immediately with a refresh. We wouldn't be able to use something
that required a re-gen, compile, restart web server cycle.  I, too,
look forward to seeing the samples.

Jeremy Thomerson
eBay, Inc.


On 3/25/06, Steven Devijver <ste...@gm...> wrote:
> Cristian,
>
> I think the Java generation can be useful in the early stage of the
> Wedge framework, but I'm with Seth in that the binding code should
> eventually be autogenerated, preferably with a tool like ASM.
>
> Wedge looks promising, and I would like to see a sample application
> that demonstrates its features, like for example complex form
> hanlding, validation, AJAX and so on.
>
> Steven
>
> On 3/25/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much for your reply!
> >
> > When I started to work on 'wedge' my objective was to have a framework
> > does not require either specific page class hierarchy or cluttered
> > templates.
> > The solution I came up with for achieving this was to have "the missing=
"
> > code generated. First, I used javassist to create and load classes at
> > runtime. I rapidly realized that this is not such a good idea because:
> > 1. The generated code is invisible to the developer. Any exception that
> > you get at runtime would be hard to debug if it occurred within this
> > generated code. 2. There are a few limitations when using javassist. Fo=
r
> > instance, it does not supports inner or anonymous classes. 3. Class
> > loading problems that may occur within a web container environment.
> >
> > Although I would like very much to come with a 'cutting [w]edge' web
> > framework, I believe that it is more important to have that attitude
> > that will keep us moving further. Wicket came up with a good change of
> > view and perspective on java web development. As I studied some wicket
> > example I was impressed by the simplicity of the xhtml templates and th=
e
> > elegancy of the java classes. Still, I try move things a little bit
> > further. I want also to have clean java code, that is, to minimize the
> > dependency of the application to the framework. In a wedge application,
> > the framework takes your code and integrates it within its generated
> > classes. In wicket applications you build your pages using specific
> > framework components into the java code. That impose the creations of a
> > lot of java objects, one for each component. For instance, take this
> > example:
> >
> > In wicket:
> >
> > this.add(new Label("message", "Hello World!"));
> >
> > <span wicket:id=3D"message">Message goes here</span>
> >
> > This code must create a tree of components the must be synchronized wit=
h
> > the template and rendered by passing through it recursivly.
> > ---------------------
> >
> > In wedge:
> >
> > public String getMessage() {
> >         return "Hello world!";
> > }
> >
> > <span wid=3D"w:insert" value=3D"ognl:message">The message</span>
> >
> > This gets translated into:
> >
> > render("<span >");
> > render(usrComp.getMessage());
> > render("</span>");
> > ---------------------
> >
> > As you can see, only a instance of the object behind the page is needed=
.
> > The component (w:insert) is translated into code. All wedge components
> > are translated into code and will not do any action at runtime.
> >
> > Embedding your code into the framework code frees your applications fro=
m
> > compatibility breaking with future versions of wedge. If your
> > application consists of pages that are simple POJO's than framework
> > improvements for performance and clarity of the generated code will not
> > affect the application code. And I think this is good thing. Backward
> > compatibility is something that makes evolution of frameworks slower.
> >
> >
> > Yes, you need to restart the application and regenerate the code as you
> > make changes to the pages. But:
> > 1. I use jetty as an embedded server which is very practical and rapid
> > way to develop application. It does not take to much time to restart th=
e
> > server.
> > 2. I've made the ANT task only for generating the pages. The generation
> > requires all the application to be on the class path such that I start =
a
> > new java process to do that. This takes time, about 5 sec for my 5 page=
s
> > app. With the following code the time reduces to 1 sec.
> >
> >
> > String base =3D "D:/PROJECTS/wedge/wedge.test.site/";
> >
> > WedgeCodeGenerator codeGenerator =3D WedgeCodeGenerator.getInstance();
> > String webRoot =3D base + "web";
> > codeGenerator.setWebRoot(webRoot);
> >
> > String sourceRoot =3D base + "wdg/src";
> > codeGenerator.setSourceDir(sourceRoot);
> >
> > String wedgeApp =3D "wedge-application.xml";
> > String appSpec =3D webRoot + "/WEB-INF/" + wedgeApp;
> > codeGenerator.setWedgeApplication(appSpec);
> >
> > codeGenerator.generateFiles();
> >
> >
> > 3. If I refresh the eclipse project folder, the eclipse compiler
> > compiles the files much faster than ANT.
> > 4. An eclipse plug-in would be quite helpful! (Note that the simplicity
> > of the framework will make possible to have a powerful enough IDE
> > plug-in)
> >
> >
> > About defaults and conventions, I have been thinking to introduce them.
> > But still, I need a way to figure out which spring beans are wedge
> > components and which are not. More, you are not bound to spring, you ca=
n
> > simply specify the class directly. For the file attribute, you can
> > specify any kind of path that XmlWebApplicationContext can manage. The
> > file name is not always suitable for being an id. Anyway, you are right=
,
> > if is possible, that the developer should have the possibility to use
> > this conventions.
> > Unfortunately I do not see how I can make the wedge framework to work
> > without any kind of information source. Anyway, the amount of xml will
> > be kept to the minimum.
> >
> > Thank you very much for your interest and I will try that a.s.a.p to
> > have a first release and more documentation.
> >
> > Help on developing is really needed! If there is anyone interested,
> > please contact me!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: spr...@li...
> > [mailto:spr...@li...] On Behal=
f
> > Of Seth Ladd
> >
> > Sounds like an interesting project.  Can you compare to Wicket
> > (http://wicket.sourceforge.net/) ?
> >
> > The one concern I have is, how quick is it to test changes to the code?
> > From the impression I get, if I want to make a change to a page, I need
> > to shut down the application and restart it so that the ANT task can
> > recompile the page classes?
> >
> > IMHO, a really cutting edge Java web application framework would requir=
e
> > absolutely zero shutdown and restarts of either the servlet container o=
r
> > the servlet context itself.  Do you happen to plan on attacking the
> > "constant redeploy" problem?
> >
> > Also, not sure if it does already, but does the configuration support
> > sensible defaults, or conventions?  A really cutting edge Java web app
> > framework would be able to run with zero XML.
> >
> > For instance, given your example:
> >
> > <application>
> >
> >         <page id=3D"home" file=3D"home.html" springBean=3D"home" />
> >
> > </application>
> >
> > I would image the default rule would be: "convert home.html to 'home'
> > and find the matching bean by name".  In other words, don't make me
> > write the above XML when it's obvious what I am declaring. :)
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> > On 3/24/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
> > > Hi everybody!
> > >
> > > My name is Cristian Pascu and I am developing an opensource project
> > > named "wedge" (http://wedge.sourceforge.net) which is a component
> > > centric web framework built on Spring.
> > > It is similar to Tapestry and aims to provide some features that are
> > > not yet available in Tapestry. Namely:
> > >         * better and easier integration with Spring.
> > >         * simple POJO classes behind clean xhtml pages. There is no
> > > need to extend specific framework classes. The classes are easy to
> > > test as they are easy to instantiate and configure.
> > >         * all page classes may be managed by Spring inversion of
> > > control container. This way, services from the business tier will be
> > > injected in the presentation tier.
> > >         * a simpler component/pages specification. There should be a
> > > single configuration file and not one for each component.
> > >         * the configuration of the application should be very simple,
> > > one xml file with few tags and attributes. Much of the configuration
> > > will be on the spring side.
> > >
> > > Most of these features are already implemented. There is still some
> > > work to do on the validation mechanism. The upload support is also
> > > missing but is not to hard to implement.
> > >
> > > But what differentiate the wedge framework from tapestry framework is
> > > that instead of using runtime reflection it follows the "code
> > > generation" paradigm. Let me be more specific: The connection between
> > > the template and the class behind it is made through an intermediary
> > > generated class that binds the two. Thus, the generated code "knows"
> > > exactly which is the structure of the template, that components to
> > > render, what classes to use and what methods to call at the right
> > time.
> > > The generation is done with an ANT task each time before the
> > > application is started.
> > >
> > > If you have any thoughts on what I am trying to do, critics or
> > > advices, all are welcomed!
> > >
> > > Do you think that such a framework is needed?
> > > Do you think that my approach is a good one?
> > >
> > > Thank you very much!
> > >
> > > Cristian
> > >
> > >
> > > PS: There is not any release yet. You may check out the project from
> > > sourceforge: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wedge
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> > > language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend
> > > the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into thi=
s
> > new coding territory!
> > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Springframework-developer mailing list
> > > Spr...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-develope=
r
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> > language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend th=
e
> > live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new
> > coding territory!
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Springframework-developer mailing list
> > Spr...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
> webcast
> > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Springframework-developer mailing list
> > Spr...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua=
ge
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc=
ast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor=
y!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Springframework-developer mailing list
> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
>
>
>

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Steven D. <ste...@gm...>]

Cristian,

I think the Java generation can be useful in the early stage of the
Wedge framework, but I'm with Seth in that the binding code should
eventually be autogenerated, preferably with a tool like ASM.

Wedge looks promising, and I would like to see a sample application
that demonstrates its features, like for example complex form
hanlding, validation, AJAX and so on.

Steven

On 3/25/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
>
> Thank you very much for your reply!
>
> When I started to work on 'wedge' my objective was to have a framework
> does not require either specific page class hierarchy or cluttered
> templates.
> The solution I came up with for achieving this was to have "the missing"
> code generated. First, I used javassist to create and load classes at
> runtime. I rapidly realized that this is not such a good idea because:
> 1. The generated code is invisible to the developer. Any exception that
> you get at runtime would be hard to debug if it occurred within this
> generated code. 2. There are a few limitations when using javassist. For
> instance, it does not supports inner or anonymous classes. 3. Class
> loading problems that may occur within a web container environment.
>
> Although I would like very much to come with a 'cutting [w]edge' web
> framework, I believe that it is more important to have that attitude
> that will keep us moving further. Wicket came up with a good change of
> view and perspective on java web development. As I studied some wicket
> example I was impressed by the simplicity of the xhtml templates and the
> elegancy of the java classes. Still, I try move things a little bit
> further. I want also to have clean java code, that is, to minimize the
> dependency of the application to the framework. In a wedge application,
> the framework takes your code and integrates it within its generated
> classes. In wicket applications you build your pages using specific
> framework components into the java code. That impose the creations of a
> lot of java objects, one for each component. For instance, take this
> example:
>
> In wicket:
>
> this.add(new Label("message", "Hello World!"));
>
> <span wicket:id=3D"message">Message goes here</span>
>
> This code must create a tree of components the must be synchronized with
> the template and rendered by passing through it recursivly.
> ---------------------
>
> In wedge:
>
> public String getMessage() {
>         return "Hello world!";
> }
>
> <span wid=3D"w:insert" value=3D"ognl:message">The message</span>
>
> This gets translated into:
>
> render("<span >");
> render(usrComp.getMessage());
> render("</span>");
> ---------------------
>
> As you can see, only a instance of the object behind the page is needed.
> The component (w:insert) is translated into code. All wedge components
> are translated into code and will not do any action at runtime.
>
> Embedding your code into the framework code frees your applications from
> compatibility breaking with future versions of wedge. If your
> application consists of pages that are simple POJO's than framework
> improvements for performance and clarity of the generated code will not
> affect the application code. And I think this is good thing. Backward
> compatibility is something that makes evolution of frameworks slower.
>
>
> Yes, you need to restart the application and regenerate the code as you
> make changes to the pages. But:
> 1. I use jetty as an embedded server which is very practical and rapid
> way to develop application. It does not take to much time to restart the
> server.
> 2. I've made the ANT task only for generating the pages. The generation
> requires all the application to be on the class path such that I start a
> new java process to do that. This takes time, about 5 sec for my 5 pages
> app. With the following code the time reduces to 1 sec.
>
>
> String base =3D "D:/PROJECTS/wedge/wedge.test.site/";
>
> WedgeCodeGenerator codeGenerator =3D WedgeCodeGenerator.getInstance();
> String webRoot =3D base + "web";
> codeGenerator.setWebRoot(webRoot);
>
> String sourceRoot =3D base + "wdg/src";
> codeGenerator.setSourceDir(sourceRoot);
>
> String wedgeApp =3D "wedge-application.xml";
> String appSpec =3D webRoot + "/WEB-INF/" + wedgeApp;
> codeGenerator.setWedgeApplication(appSpec);
>
> codeGenerator.generateFiles();
>
>
> 3. If I refresh the eclipse project folder, the eclipse compiler
> compiles the files much faster than ANT.
> 4. An eclipse plug-in would be quite helpful! (Note that the simplicity
> of the framework will make possible to have a powerful enough IDE
> plug-in)
>
>
> About defaults and conventions, I have been thinking to introduce them.
> But still, I need a way to figure out which spring beans are wedge
> components and which are not. More, you are not bound to spring, you can
> simply specify the class directly. For the file attribute, you can
> specify any kind of path that XmlWebApplicationContext can manage. The
> file name is not always suitable for being an id. Anyway, you are right,
> if is possible, that the developer should have the possibility to use
> this conventions.
> Unfortunately I do not see how I can make the wedge framework to work
> without any kind of information source. Anyway, the amount of xml will
> be kept to the minimum.
>
> Thank you very much for your interest and I will try that a.s.a.p to
> have a first release and more documentation.
>
> Help on developing is really needed! If there is anyone interested,
> please contact me!
>
> Cristian
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spr...@li...
> [mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf
> Of Seth Ladd
>
> Sounds like an interesting project.  Can you compare to Wicket
> (http://wicket.sourceforge.net/) ?
>
> The one concern I have is, how quick is it to test changes to the code?
> From the impression I get, if I want to make a change to a page, I need
> to shut down the application and restart it so that the ANT task can
> recompile the page classes?
>
> IMHO, a really cutting edge Java web application framework would require
> absolutely zero shutdown and restarts of either the servlet container or
> the servlet context itself.  Do you happen to plan on attacking the
> "constant redeploy" problem?
>
> Also, not sure if it does already, but does the configuration support
> sensible defaults, or conventions?  A really cutting edge Java web app
> framework would be able to run with zero XML.
>
> For instance, given your example:
>
> <application>
>
>         <page id=3D"home" file=3D"home.html" springBean=3D"home" />
>
> </application>
>
> I would image the default rule would be: "convert home.html to 'home'
> and find the matching bean by name".  In other words, don't make me
> write the above XML when it's obvious what I am declaring. :)
>
> Seth
>
>
> On 3/24/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
> > Hi everybody!
> >
> > My name is Cristian Pascu and I am developing an opensource project
> > named "wedge" (http://wedge.sourceforge.net) which is a component
> > centric web framework built on Spring.
> > It is similar to Tapestry and aims to provide some features that are
> > not yet available in Tapestry. Namely:
> >         * better and easier integration with Spring.
> >         * simple POJO classes behind clean xhtml pages. There is no
> > need to extend specific framework classes. The classes are easy to
> > test as they are easy to instantiate and configure.
> >         * all page classes may be managed by Spring inversion of
> > control container. This way, services from the business tier will be
> > injected in the presentation tier.
> >         * a simpler component/pages specification. There should be a
> > single configuration file and not one for each component.
> >         * the configuration of the application should be very simple,
> > one xml file with few tags and attributes. Much of the configuration
> > will be on the spring side.
> >
> > Most of these features are already implemented. There is still some
> > work to do on the validation mechanism. The upload support is also
> > missing but is not to hard to implement.
> >
> > But what differentiate the wedge framework from tapestry framework is
> > that instead of using runtime reflection it follows the "code
> > generation" paradigm. Let me be more specific: The connection between
> > the template and the class behind it is made through an intermediary
> > generated class that binds the two. Thus, the generated code "knows"
> > exactly which is the structure of the template, that components to
> > render, what classes to use and what methods to call at the right
> time.
> > The generation is done with an ANT task each time before the
> > application is started.
> >
> > If you have any thoughts on what I am trying to do, critics or
> > advices, all are welcomed!
> >
> > Do you think that such a framework is needed?
> > Do you think that my approach is a good one?
> >
> > Thank you very much!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> >
> > PS: There is not any release yet. You may check out the project from
> > sourceforge: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wedge
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> > language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend
> > the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this
> new coding territory!
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > Springframework-developer mailing list
> > Spr...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
> live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new
> coding territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Springframework-developer mailing list
> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting langua=
ge
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webc=
ast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territor=
y!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Springframework-developer mailing list
> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
>
>

RE: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Cristi P. <cri...@cr...>]

Thank you very much for your reply!=20

When I started to work on 'wedge' my objective was to have a framework
does not require either specific page class hierarchy or cluttered
templates.=20
The solution I came up with for achieving this was to have "the missing"
code generated. First, I used javassist to create and load classes at
runtime. I rapidly realized that this is not such a good idea because:
1. The generated code is invisible to the developer. Any exception that
you get at runtime would be hard to debug if it occurred within this
generated code. 2. There are a few limitations when using javassist. For
instance, it does not supports inner or anonymous classes. 3. Class
loading problems that may occur within a web container environment.

Although I would like very much to come with a 'cutting [w]edge' web
framework, I believe that it is more important to have that attitude
that will keep us moving further. Wicket came up with a good change of
view and perspective on java web development. As I studied some wicket
example I was impressed by the simplicity of the xhtml templates and the
elegancy of the java classes. Still, I try move things a little bit
further. I want also to have clean java code, that is, to minimize the
dependency of the application to the framework. In a wedge application,
the framework takes your code and integrates it within its generated
classes. In wicket applications you build your pages using specific
framework components into the java code. That impose the creations of a
lot of java objects, one for each component. For instance, take this
example:

In wicket:

this.add(new Label("message", "Hello World!"));

<span wicket:id=3D"message">Message goes here</span>

This code must create a tree of components the must be synchronized with
the template and rendered by passing through it recursivly.
---------------------

In wedge:

public String getMessage() {
	return "Hello world!";
}

<span wid=3D"w:insert" value=3D"ognl:message">The message</span>

This gets translated into:

render("<span >");
render(usrComp.getMessage());
render("</span>");
---------------------

As you can see, only a instance of the object behind the page is needed.
The component (w:insert) is translated into code. All wedge components
are translated into code and will not do any action at runtime.

Embedding your code into the framework code frees your applications from
compatibility breaking with future versions of wedge. If your
application consists of pages that are simple POJO's than framework
improvements for performance and clarity of the generated code will not
affect the application code. And I think this is good thing. Backward
compatibility is something that makes evolution of frameworks slower.


Yes, you need to restart the application and regenerate the code as you
make changes to the pages. But:=20
1. I use jetty as an embedded server which is very practical and rapid
way to develop application. It does not take to much time to restart the
server.
2. I've made the ANT task only for generating the pages. The generation
requires all the application to be on the class path such that I start a
new java process to do that. This takes time, about 5 sec for my 5 pages
app. With the following code the time reduces to 1 sec.


String base =3D "D:/PROJECTS/wedge/wedge.test.site/";
	=09
WedgeCodeGenerator codeGenerator =3D WedgeCodeGenerator.getInstance();
String webRoot =3D base + "web";
codeGenerator.setWebRoot(webRoot);

String sourceRoot =3D base + "wdg/src";
codeGenerator.setSourceDir(sourceRoot);

String wedgeApp =3D "wedge-application.xml";
String appSpec =3D webRoot + "/WEB-INF/" + wedgeApp;
codeGenerator.setWedgeApplication(appSpec);

codeGenerator.generateFiles();


3. If I refresh the eclipse project folder, the eclipse compiler
compiles the files much faster than ANT.
4. An eclipse plug-in would be quite helpful! (Note that the simplicity
of the framework will make possible to have a powerful enough IDE
plug-in)


About defaults and conventions, I have been thinking to introduce them.
But still, I need a way to figure out which spring beans are wedge
components and which are not. More, you are not bound to spring, you can
simply specify the class directly. For the file attribute, you can
specify any kind of path that XmlWebApplicationContext can manage. The
file name is not always suitable for being an id. Anyway, you are right,
if is possible, that the developer should have the possibility to use
this conventions.=20
Unfortunately I do not see how I can make the wedge framework to work
without any kind of information source. Anyway, the amount of xml will
be kept to the minimum.

Thank you very much for your interest and I will try that a.s.a.p to
have a first release and more documentation.

Help on developing is really needed! If there is anyone interested,
please contact me!

Cristian



-----Original Message-----
From: spr...@li...
[mailto:spr...@li...] On Behalf
Of Seth Ladd

Sounds like an interesting project.  Can you compare to Wicket
(http://wicket.sourceforge.net/) ?

The one concern I have is, how quick is it to test changes to the code?
From the impression I get, if I want to make a change to a page, I need
to shut down the application and restart it so that the ANT task can
recompile the page classes?

IMHO, a really cutting edge Java web application framework would require
absolutely zero shutdown and restarts of either the servlet container or
the servlet context itself.  Do you happen to plan on attacking the
"constant redeploy" problem?

Also, not sure if it does already, but does the configuration support
sensible defaults, or conventions?  A really cutting edge Java web app
framework would be able to run with zero XML.

For instance, given your example:

<application>

	<page id=3D"home" file=3D"home.html" springBean=3D"home" />

</application>

I would image the default rule would be: "convert home.html to 'home'
and find the matching bean by name".  In other words, don't make me
write the above XML when it's obvious what I am declaring. :)

Seth


On 3/24/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
> Hi everybody!
>
> My name is Cristian Pascu and I am developing an opensource project=20
> named "wedge" (http://wedge.sourceforge.net) which is a component=20
> centric web framework built on Spring.
> It is similar to Tapestry and aims to provide some features that are=20
> not yet available in Tapestry. Namely:
>         * better and easier integration with Spring.
>         * simple POJO classes behind clean xhtml pages. There is no=20
> need to extend specific framework classes. The classes are easy to=20
> test as they are easy to instantiate and configure.
>         * all page classes may be managed by Spring inversion of=20
> control container. This way, services from the business tier will be=20
> injected in the presentation tier.
>         * a simpler component/pages specification. There should be a=20
> single configuration file and not one for each component.
>         * the configuration of the application should be very simple,=20
> one xml file with few tags and attributes. Much of the configuration=20
> will be on the spring side.
>
> Most of these features are already implemented. There is still some=20
> work to do on the validation mechanism. The upload support is also=20
> missing but is not to hard to implement.
>
> But what differentiate the wedge framework from tapestry framework is=20
> that instead of using runtime reflection it follows the "code=20
> generation" paradigm. Let me be more specific: The connection between=20
> the template and the class behind it is made through an intermediary=20
> generated class that binds the two. Thus, the generated code "knows"
> exactly which is the structure of the template, that components to=20
> render, what classes to use and what methods to call at the right
time.
> The generation is done with an ANT task each time before the=20
> application is started.
>
> If you have any thoughts on what I am trying to do, critics or=20
> advices, all are welcomed!
>
> Do you think that such a framework is needed?
> Do you think that my approach is a good one?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Cristian
>
>
> PS: There is not any release yet. You may check out the project from
> sourceforge: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wedge
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting=20
> language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend=20
> the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this
new coding territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Springframework-developer mailing list=20
> Spr...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer
>


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new
coding territory!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=121642
_______________________________________________
Springframework-developer mailing list
Spr...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/springframework-developer

Re: [Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Seth L. <set...@gm...>]

Sounds like an interesting project.  Can you compare to Wicket
(http://wicket.sourceforge.net/) ?

The one concern I have is, how quick is it to test changes to the
code?  From the impression I get, if I want to make a change to a
page, I need to shut down the application and restart it so that the
ANT task can recompile the page classes?

IMHO, a really cutting edge Java web application framework would
require absolutely zero shutdown and restarts of either the servlet
container or the servlet context itself.  Do you happen to plan on
attacking the "constant redeploy" problem?

Also, not sure if it does already, but does the configuration support
sensible defaults, or conventions?  A really cutting edge Java web app
framework would be able to run with zero XML.

For instance, given your example:

<application>

=09<page id=3D"home" file=3D"home.html" springBean=3D"home" />

</application>

I would image the default rule would be: "convert home.html to 'home'
and find the matching bean by name".  In other words, don't make me
write the above XML when it's obvious what I am declaring. :)

Seth


On 3/24/06, Cristi PASCU <cri...@cr...> wrote:
> Hi everybody!
>
> My name is Cristian Pascu and I am developing an opensource project
> named "wedge" (http://wedge.sourceforge.net) which is a component
> centric web framework built on Spring.
> It is similar to Tapestry and aims to provide some features that are not
> yet available in Tapestry. Namely:
>         * better and easier integration with Spring.
>         * simple POJO classes behind clean xhtml pages. There is no need
> to extend specific framework classes. The classes are easy to test as
> they are easy to instantiate and configure.
>         * all page classes may be managed by Spring inversion of control
> container. This way, services from the business tier will be injected in
> the presentation tier.
>         * a simpler component/pages specification. There should be a
> single configuration file and not one for each component.
>         * the configuration of the application should be very simple,
> one xml file with few tags and attributes. Much of the configuration
> will be on the spring side.
>
> Most of these features are already implemented. There is still some work
> to do on the validation mechanism. The upload support is also missing
> but is not to hard to implement.
>
> But what differentiate the wedge framework from tapestry framework is
> that instead of using runtime reflection it follows the "code
> generation" paradigm. Let me be more specific: The connection between
> the template and the class behind it is made through an intermediary
> generated class that binds the two. Thus, the generated code "knows"
> exactly which is the structure of the template, that components to
> render, what classes to use and what methods to call at the right time.
> The generation is done with an ANT task each time before the application
> is started.
>
> If you have any thoughts on what I am trying to do, critics or advices,
> all are welcomed!
>
> Do you think that such a framework is needed?
> Do you think that my approach is a good one?
>
> Thank you very much!
>
> Cristian
>
>
> PS: There is not any release yet. You may check out the project from
> sourceforge: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wedge
>
>
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[Springframework-developer] Component Centric Web Framework for Spring

[Cristi P. <cri...@cr...>]

Hi everybody!
=20
My name is Cristian Pascu and I am developing an opensource project
named "wedge" (http://wedge.sourceforge.net) which is a component
centric web framework built on Spring.=20
It is similar to Tapestry and aims to provide some features that are not
yet available in Tapestry. Namely:
	* better and easier integration with Spring.
	* simple POJO classes behind clean xhtml pages. There is no need
to extend specific framework classes. The classes are easy to test as
they are easy to instantiate and configure.
	* all page classes may be managed by Spring inversion of control
container. This way, services from the business tier will be injected in
the presentation tier.
	* a simpler component/pages specification. There should be a
single configuration file and not one for each component.
	* the configuration of the application should be very simple,
one xml file with few tags and attributes. Much of the configuration
will be on the spring side.

Most of these features are already implemented. There is still some work
to do on the validation mechanism. The upload support is also missing
but is not to hard to implement.

But what differentiate the wedge framework from tapestry framework is
that instead of using runtime reflection it follows the "code
generation" paradigm. Let me be more specific: The connection between
the template and the class behind it is made through an intermediary
generated class that binds the two. Thus, the generated code "knows"
exactly which is the structure of the template, that components to
render, what classes to use and what methods to call at the right time.
The generation is done with an ANT task each time before the application
is started.

If you have any thoughts on what I am trying to do, critics or advices,
all are welcomed!

Do you think that such a framework is needed?
Do you think that my approach is a good one?=20

Thank you very much!

Cristian


PS: There is not any release yet. You may check out the project from
sourceforge: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wedge=20

[Springframework-developer] Spring WebFlow build.12 FAILED

[<al...@in...>]

Errors and a list of modifications can be found in the build log (http://static.springframework.org/spring-webflow/build/index.html).

[Springframework-developer] Spring build.448 SUCCEEDED

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Snapshot has been uploaded to http://www.springframework.org/snaphots
    			
The list of modifications for this build can be found in the build log (http://static.springframework.org/spring/build/index.html).    			
			

[Springframework-developer] Spring build.447 SUCCEEDED

[<ale...@in...>]

Snapshot has been uploaded to http://www.springframework.org/snaphots
    			
The list of modifications for this build can be found in the build log (http://static.springframework.org/spring/build/index.html).