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RE: [Slashem-devel] Balance issues
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From: Warren C. <wa...@em...> - 2001-04-16 23:40:11
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A couple pennies for the pond... First of all, I'm glad we're discussing the tinker technique - the current code was definitely kind of a stand-in for "the real tinker technique as soon as I could think of a proper one". A couple things... 1. I had actually originally had in mind adding a Tinker skill (or a better name might be a good idea. Something like "weaponscraft" or the like). Of course, this would mean somehow allowing anyone to use this. I had thought a toolkit would do nicely, with Gnomes getting the bonus of being able to do it without a toolkit (-1 skill level) and Gnomes starting at Basic rather than Restricted. Other alternatives include the ability to purchase the technique from shopkeepers or friendly monsters. 2. Part of the "heritage" of the tinker technique was that it pretty much stole code from the potion of gain level. More differentiation, especially if we're going to do a nice rewrite, would be good. As well, important would be somehow "controlling" the technique so that it doesn't get too powerful. Several possibilities: a> Make it so that Tinker can't create magical objects. Or at least reduced chance of magical objects. I like this idea, since creating magical objects should probably require magic, although it can be argued that the magical properties come with finer craftsmanship ... Also, it would probably be appropriate to not have certain transformations - like the crystall ball to magic marker, etc. b> Make the tinkered objects "revert" - personally, I don't like this one as much since it's kinda harder to explain than unpolymorphing..."falling apart"? 3. I definitely like the idea of being able to combine objects. In this vein though, I would definitely suggest the inability to create anything overly powerful - I guess a good dose of Conservation of Energy would be appropriate. Would be nice to also be able to do the reverse as well. So here are my ideas: -Have a "craft" skill. -Make tinker deal with only non-magical items. -Add a "Combine" technique. Make it possible to create some higher level items, -find a better name for "combine" -Always avoid allowing creation of very powerful objects (unless they're not usually wanted.), esp. Ascension Kit(tm) objects -Make Tinker and Combine depend on the skill. -Add a toolbox, that will allow Tinkering (and Combining if your skill level is high enough). -Gnomes get Tinker and Combine techniques during levelups. -maybe even add a "disassemble" technique/skill Also to think about, but only marginally related - we should probably make an effort to break up the Ascension Kit, or else have it so that there are a lot of useable alternatives. Future, future.... |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\| Warren Alexander Cheung SLASH'EM Project Admin, BCRMTA-STA Treasurer, CSSS Treasurer, MISA Webmaster, MS Student Consultant ICQ: 3336113 AIM: WAC Warren MSN Messenger: war...@ho... Personal Homepage: MISA Homepage: SLASH'EM Project: http://wac.cjb.net http://micb.cjb.net http://slashem.cjb.net -----Original Message----- From: sla...@li... [mailto:sla...@li...]On Behalf Of J. Ali Harlow Sent: March 29, 2001 3:36 AM To: my...@vi...; Michael Clarke Cc: sla...@li... Subject: Re: [Slashem-devel] Balance issues On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Michael Clarke wrote: > "J. Ali Harlow" wrote: > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Michael Clarke wrote: > > > How about having a potion of gain level act like a scroll of enchant > > > armor/weapon? The dipped item gains a +1 enchantment (with the normal > > > rules for it melting into slag if over enchanted). Cursed potions > > > would disenchant and curse, blessed would enchant by 1-2 and bless. > > > > As a general philosophy, I'm against what you might call magical effect > > bleed. It's much better if every magical item has its own effect rather than > > duplicating them. Firstly this makes the game more interesting, secondly it > > means you have to think about tactics a little more. Slash'EM already has > > shopkeeper services, let's not add yet another way to enchant/bless armour > > and weapons. > > Fair enough. I consider alternative ways of achieving the same goal > to be good things as they give the player more choices and options, > but each to their own. Giving players more choices is obviously a good thing. At the same time, it's good to encourage players to make choices that differentiate between characters rather than allowing so much flexibility that all characters end up the same. Thus I think that alternative ways of achieving a goal such as killing a particular monster or getting through a dungeon level are a bonus whereas alternative ways of getting a particular piece of equipment (especially equipment that tends to be part of the so called ascension kit) need to be kept under control. > > > Tinker should probably be able to repair damaged items (burnt, corroded > > > or erroded) and, maybe, combine items to make other items: > > > > Now this, on the other hand, is an excellent idea. I've commented on your > > various examples, but obviously there's quite a bit more to do before it > > could be described as a proposal... > > > Some ideas of my own: > > > > Robe + =oProtection => Robe of protection > > Robe + gauntlets of power => Robe of power > > Cloak + =oInvis => Cloak of invisibility > > Cloak + gray dragon scales => Cloak of magic resistance > > Helmet + amulet of esp => helm of telepathy > > Gloves + amulet of magical breathing => gauntlets of swimming > > Gloves + ring of gain dexterity => gauntlets of dexterity > > Boots + ring of levitation => water walking boots > > Sack + wand of create horde => bag of tricks > > Look good. Do we need to allow some slack for alternate items (such > as spell books in place of wands and bags)? It's a good question. The reason I was trying to avoid this was I am already concerned that this will allow gnomes to create the standard ascension kit rather more easilly than other races. I think we can live with that, after all there's a need for some easier characters as well as some harder ones, but I do think we need to avoid it becomming _too_ easy. > > > If chargable items are used, they MUST have charges and the change > > > of success decreases if they are less than fully charged. > > > > Where "fully charged" still needs defining. > > Base it on a low value for the number of charges the item is normally > generated with and don't give bonuses for having more charges. I guess the average value would be easy enough to find and provide a good base level. > > > If the skill isn't going to make a change to an item, it should leave it > > > unmodified. There should probably also be a skill check, with a chance > > > of ruining one or both of the items if the check is failed. Hmmm. We'll > > > need simpler recipies so they can practice: > > > > Ok. I think we'd want to encourage non-magical improvements anyway so that > > low-level characters can do something useful with the technique (as > > currently). > > Ok. > > > > Hmmm. Do we need tools like needles, sheers and hammers? > > > > I'd prefer not. There are enough semi-useless objects floating around anyway > > and most characters won't have any use for these at all. I think we can just > > assume that gnomes either always have access to such things or can make do > > with what's to hand. > > Sounds good to me. Excellent. We'll kick it about a bit more and then see if we can put together a proposal. -- Ali Harlow Email: al...@av... Research programmer Tel: (020) 7477 8000 X 4348 Applied Vision Research Centre Intl: +44 20 7477 8000 X 4348 City University Fax: (020) 7505 5515 London Intl: +44 20 7505 5515 _______________________________________________ Slashem-devel mailing list Sla...@li... http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashem-devel |