slashcode-development — This list is for development of slashcode, no install questions please.

Re: [Slashcode-development] Oracle port

[Brian A. <br...@ta...>]

Update on this. I committed a schema for it a few
weeks ago. There is an Oracle User Group in
I believe Detroit that have  I have been talking
to who have been looking at it (outside of some
corrections to the schema I don't know if they have
gotten anything done).

	-Brian
-- 
_______________________________________________________
Brian Aker, br...@ta... 
Slashdot Senior Developer
Seattle, Washington
http://tangent.org/~brian/
http://slashdot.org/
_______________________________________________________
You can't grep a dead tree.

Re: [Slashcode-development] Timezone under Bender

[Alessio B. <al...@al...>]

Sorry to reply to this after a long time. But I needed to look into the
code and also separate Slash problems from bugs on my platform (Digital
Unix) regarding timezones.

Patrick Galbraith wrote:

> the whole reason  behind using GMT is that a slash site can have users
> around the world who can have their own time preferences.

Yes, I perfectly realize that (which is my requirement, BTW). The point
is that this places a burden on the system setup where it should belong
to the application logic, either in the code itself or the database
connection.

I cannot run my machines on GMT (I don't have a separate box for Slash)
and putting a TZ=GMT on safe_mysqld doesn't seem to work. But both of
these things affect other software, so why cannot Slash play it nice and
do the proper calculations?

I found a fix that seems to work for Slash 1.0.9, in Slash.pm I use
Time::Zone and call once tz_local_offset and store it. Then I
recalculate $I{timezones} taking care of this local offset. The only
problem I see is that when DST jumps in you can have uncorrect answers
because the cached tz_local_offset has been calculated before the
change.

it's very simple, I've uploaded it Sourceforge:
<http://sourceforge.net/patch/download.php?id=103482>

I am looking at the Bender sourcecode for something similar.

-- 
Alessio F. Bragadini		al...@al...
APL Financial Services		http://village.albourne.com
Nicosia, Cyprus		 	phone: +357-2-755750

"It is more complicated than you think"
		-- The Eighth Networking Truth from RFC 1925

[Slashcode-development] [Patch #103482] Handles timezone offset when machine/db is not running GMT

[<no...@so...>]

Patch #103482 has been updated. 

Project: slashcode
Category: MAIN branch
Status: Open
Submitted by: alessio
Assigned to : nobody
Summary: Handles timezone offset when machine/db is not running GMT

-------------------------------------------------------
For more info, visit:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=103482&group_id=4421

[Slashcode-development] & in RDF

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

Please see the discussion on
http://slashcode.com/article.pl?sid=01/01/24/0049204 and comment on it if
you are interested in what we should do about encoding "&" in created RDF
files.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] Oracle port

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 02:33 -0800 01.28.2001, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
>I would be happy if those of you out there heading or involved in the Oracle
>porting process of Bender could comment on your progress, any thoughts
>regarding it, time frame for going 'beta' quality, etc.

There has been, essentially, no real progress.  There's been some thought
given to the problems involved in porting it over.  I'd imagine that when
PostgreSQL is done, Oracle will be a bit easier to do.  I don't believe
there is any timeframe for it, as it is not a priority right now; it is not
targeted for inclusion, at all, in the release of Slash 2.0 (Bender), or
Slash 2.2 (which is the "Getting Bender to Run on Slashdot" release).

I am not sure if we ever will do an Oracle port.  After PostgreSQL and
MySQL are done, it will be mostly trivial for a third party to complete
support for any other reasonable database, including Oracle.  We would
certainly be willing to give guidance and help, but I am not sure that any
time soon we will do work on it.

Of course, we might end up doing it, given the time and inclination, but if
someone really wants Oracle support now, they'd be better off finding a
Perl programmer to do the work themselves (perhaps after PostgreSQL is
further along, so they can use that work for the Oracle port).

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

[Slashcode-development] Oracle port

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

Hi,

I would be happy if those of you out there heading or involved in the Oracle
porting process of Bender could comment on your progress, any thoughts
regarding it, time frame for going 'beta' quality, etc.

Thanks a lot!

Re: [Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie capability.

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nandor" <pu...@po...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Cc: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie
capability.


> At 01:59 -0800 01.24.2001, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
> >Persistent stories: Stories that are meant to be continuously used for
> >discussion regarding one or more issues/subjects/blah that do not 'time
> >out/die' like typical 'news' type stories that are tied to chronology.
The
> >example I gave was on a web design site, a story could be created for
'HTML
> >Help'. Since on a site like this that kind of story would always be
> >beneficial and isn't tied to anything chronological (like news stories.)
it
> >would be nice to have this always 'stick around'. It's pretty much the
only
> >real feature BB's like UBB and Phorum have over Slash and I see it
> >constantly requested.
> >
> >So that I don't have to preface any conversation regarding this with that
> >'definition' does anyone have a better suggestion for this kind of story
> >than persistent story? Otherwise I'll refer to it as that from now on
with
> >no preface.
>
> The only thing I don't see is how Slash (bender, esp.) does not have this
> now.  I mean, I see how some things would need to change to make this
> feature of Slash _better_ (as you stated in the rest of the post, about
> moderation, pruning comments, etc.), but it is there and it works, as far
> as I can tell.

Let's clarify. The architecture of Slash is such that hacking out a BB
wouldn't be too hard, but there is no robust 'out of the box' support for
having some sections ( or however this functionality would be supported ) be
in BB format. If there was, wouldn't Slashdot's cousin, SourceForge, have
used it for their forums? :) Reference URL:
http://sourceforge.net/forum/?group_id=1

By your logic, everything that can exist in the weblog/bb type app already
does exist in Slash because 'it'd only take a little change to make it
*better*'. That's not how *most* people look at it, obviously, since this
feature has been requested multiple times in the past week alone. Until
someone can specify some configuration setting somewhere to simply turn 'BB
style' on for a section in Slash and have all stories in it turn into topics
and not 'go away' and have all comments posted in those topics not 'go
away', I don't consider this feature existing.

I agree that it would not be hard to do, and that's what we're working to
do, but I strongly disagree that this is 'there'. Perhaps this mentality is
what keeps a lot of people from Slash. For example, of course Slash installs
(usually ;) but does it install well? Does it install with a few clicks
rather than massive perl knowledge and so on? I'd say not. (And please don't
use the argument that you don't want to support click-and-configure type
installs because they are 'l4m3' or Windows'esque or something equally
elitist. You know what I'm getting at.) Regarding this example, don't take
offense. I am a proponent of Slash whenever I can and I constantly think
about ways to improve the project wherever I/we can, but recognizing it's
short-comings from our *and* regular Slash users' perspectives is important
if we want Slash to have wide-spread acceptance as a viable solution.

Also consider someone new to Slash coming to slashcode.org looking to run it
isn't going to have the intimate knowledge of Slash you do, so what may be
simple to you may be daunting to them. That's why I think there should
always be a focus to make features as easy to support/configure/etc rather
than requiring a perl certification to make the damn shit work. :)

Regards

>
> --
> Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
> Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

Re: [Slashcode-development] pgsql beta

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

If you read closely on Krow's announcement of Bender beta, actually you'll
see he refers to the pgsql port as alpha, thanks.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Vonnahme" <na...@th...>
To: <sla...@li...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] pgsql beta


>
> > CertIndex.com Webmaster:
> >
> > > no, the pgsql port of bender being bender, which is now considered
> > > alpha.
>
> And actually, bender is now in beta....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Slashcode-development mailing list
> Sla...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/slashcode-development
>

[Slashcode-development] Handy utility for mysqldump db dumps

[T F <tf...@ho...>]

I put together a little perl script to deal with importing my modified sql 
data from the slashdb before upgrading the whole slash system/db from cvs.

When I'd been dumping my modified templates (as an example) the tpid field 
was being dumped. That's nice, until you try to import that data back in and 
the tpid's conflict with the standard bender slashdb data.

This script rips the id fields (auto_increment) out of the dump file for 
you.

Here's how I've used it:

mysqldump {db} -h {dbmachine} -u {dbuser} -p -t "-wsection='test'" templates 
 > /tmp/it
./fixsqldump -f /tmp/it > /tmp/data2import

This is my first attempt at using regex under perl. Please don't laugh when 
you read the code. Eventually I'd like to finish the script so that it'll 
rip specified data directly from the db, which is why it's using the slash 
stuff. But for now, it just comes in handy.

--------<snip>--------

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;
use Slash;
use Slash::DB;
use Getopt::Std;
use Cwd;

my $VERSION = '0.1';
my $COPYRIGHT = 'Copyright (c) 2001 tf23\@hotmail.com for slash';

my %opts;
usage('no options supplied to program') unless getopts('vf:?', \%opts);
usage('help') if $opts{'?'};
usage('you did not supply the source filename') if ! $opts{'f'};
usage('too many options') if (@ARGV > 2);

if ($opts{'v'}) {
    print "$0, Version $VERSION, $COPYRIGHT\n";
    exit();
}
convertmysqldumpdata($opts{'f'});

sub convertmysqldumpdata {
    my ($src)=@_;
    my @files;
    my $dirflag = 0;
    $dirflag = 1 if -d $src;

    if ($dirflag) {
        opendir(DIR, $src);
        while(my $tmpfile = readdir(DIR)) {
            next if $tmpfile =~ /\./;
            push(@files, $src . '/' . $tmpfile);
        }
    } elsif (-f $src) {
        push(@files,$src);
    }
    for my $file (@files) {
        my $newfile=$file;
        open(FILE, "<$file");
        foreach (<FILE>) {
            my $line=$_;
            chomp $line;
            $line=~ s/\sVALUES\s\(\d+\,/$1 $2VALUES \($3/g;
            print "$line\n";
        }
        close(FILE);
    }
}

sub usage {
    my ($message) = @_;
    print "ERROR: $message\n";
    print <<EOT;
Usage: fixsqldump [OPTIONS]

OPTIONS
    -f <filenametoconvert>
    -v Version of this program
EOT
    exit();
}
--------<snip>--------



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Brian A. <br...@ta...>]

Chris Nandor wrote:
> Very cool.  Keep us informed, if you can; we have not tried to plug in
> other authentication modules yet, and I imagine it might not be seamless,
> but we want it to be.  We took a big step toward making it seamless by
> moving the getUser code to Slash::Utility, though (we renamed it, too, and
> I forget the new name right now, but it is the code to basically set a user
> up before saving it to the object you get when you call getCurrentUser()).
I have the authentication code somewhat working as a C module for Apache
right now. It doesn't generate the data needed for getCurrentUser() but
does do the actual authentication and sets SLASH_USER (and REMOTE_USER
for
that matter).
I have some sites that are halfway between running bender and homegrown
code 
at the moment, and this made my transition a bit easier.

	-Brian

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Brian A. <br...@ta...>]

Chris Nandor wrote:
> Well, in our new system, session IDs are not used for security anymore,
> they are only used for tracking the acivity of an author (how long they
> have been logged on and what story they are working on and such), so I
Basically how long they have been looking at a story (which eventually
times
out). Basically, know the bar on the bottom of the admin.pl page that
states what people are looking at? Well, that is what it does.

> don't think that's necessary.  The only way an author/admin is logged in,
> anymore, is by his regular username and password, and the user cookie that
> goes with it.
Right. The session table is updated whenever an admin hits a page on the
server.
So it does get updates fairly frequently. The cookie right now is pretty
much worthless.

Session is just basically a way to keep the table nice and normalized at
this
point. 

	-Brian

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 10:26 -0900 01.25.2001, Nathan Vonnahme wrote:
>Nifty!  Maybe we'll write one using Apache::Session, it'd actually be good
>for one site we're working on, and especially for any site combining slash
>with commerce (in an amazon-esque way?), where privacy of regular users is
>important and they don't need to use https for everything.

Very cool.  Keep us informed, if you can; we have not tried to plug in
other authentication modules yet, and I imagine it might not be seamless,
but we want it to be.  We took a big step toward making it seamless by
moving the getUser code to Slash::Utility, though (we renamed it, too, and
I forget the new name right now, but it is the code to basically set a user
up before saving it to the object you get when you call getCurrentUser()).

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Nathan V. <na...@th...>]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Chris Nandor wrote:

> This is the case now, in Slash.  In bender, we use md5 hashing to store the
> password in the cookie.  So the password itself is not there.  Yes, the md5

Oh.  I was thrown off by 
	my $cookie = $uid . '::' . $passwd; 
(Utility:pm line 1129) because I didn't know that $passwd was already hashed.

> hash could be stolen, so someone could copy your cookie and log in as you.
> And yes, this can all be worked around with SSL, which is why bender has
> SSL support, so admins can choose to use https.

A good solution.

> I am not opposed to other methods; the cool thing is that all of this is
> done in Slash::Apache::User, and is invoked in your Apache config.  You can
> write a separate authentication module and plug that in to your Apache
> config instead.  I imagine we will work toward having several different
> authentication modules.

Nifty!  Maybe we'll write one using Apache::Session, it'd actually be good
for one site we're working on, and especially for any site combining slash
with commerce (in an amazon-esque way?), where privacy of regular users is
important and they don't need to use https for everything.

-n

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 10:01 -0900 01.25.2001, Nathan Vonnahme wrote:
>Whoah, I didn't realize usernames/passwords were stored in the cookies.
>Cookies are (in theory) interceptable since they're sent over the net in
>clear text (unless you're using ssl), so Bad Guys could steal your cookie
>and learn your password and log in as you and do Bad Things.

This is the case now, in Slash.  In bender, we use md5 hashing to store the
password in the cookie.  So the password itself is not there.  Yes, the md5
hash could be stolen, so someone could copy your cookie and log in as you.
And yes, this can all be worked around with SSL, which is why bender has
SSL support, so admins can choose to use https.

I am not opposed to other methods; the cool thing is that all of this is
done in Slash::Apache::User, and is invoked in your Apache config.  You can
write a separate authentication module and plug that in to your Apache
config instead.  I imagine we will work toward having several different
authentication modules.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Nathan V. <na...@th...>]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Chris Nandor wrote:

> Well, in our new system, session IDs are not used for security anymore,
> they are only used for tracking the acivity of an author (how long they
> have been logged on and what story they are working on and such), so I
> don't think that's necessary.  The only way an author/admin is logged in,
> anymore, is by his regular username and password, and the user cookie that
> goes with it.

Whoah, I didn't realize usernames/passwords were stored in the cookies.  
Cookies are (in theory) interceptable since they're sent over the net in
clear text (unless you're using ssl), so Bad Guys could steal your cookie
and learn your password and log in as you and do Bad Things.  The method
outlined in the eagle book and implemented in Apache::Session doesn't have
this problem, and is suitable, e.g., for ecommerce or other
privacy-sensitive session tracking.  Now, maybe it's not essential for
slash to have this level of security/privacy, especially in the interests
of speed, but there are more secure ways of doing it.

Also, it would actually save the authentication database lookup, I
think...but would require an MD5 computation.

-n

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 09:12 -0900 01.25.2001, Nathan Vonnahme wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Chris Nandor wrote:
>
>> At 13:39 -0800 01.24.2001, Brian Aker wrote:
>> >Is there any reason why we are randomly generating a number
>> >still in sessions to use it as the session ID? It could
>> >easily be an autoincrement.
>>
>> Since the session was being put into the cookie, and that was what
>> authenticated you, a sequence of any kind would be dangerous.  Guess the
>> right number and be authenticated as that admin.
>
>Even a random number could be guessed by brute force, which is why most
>session management includes a checksum including the client ip and a
>secret value known only to the server.  Chapter 5 in the O'Reilly mod_perl
>book (Stein and MacEachern) covers this in detail, especially p 213 and
>following.

Yes, it could be guessed, but that is almost impossible.  You'd have better
luck actually guessing the admin's password, because the password doesn't
change periodically, and the session cookie does.

>Have you considered using the Apache::Session module?  It seems to be a
>good interface for generating unique session ids that are hard to spoof,
>though I haven't used it yet (I rolled my own on the one project I've used
>them for so far).

Well, in our new system, session IDs are not used for security anymore,
they are only used for tracking the acivity of an author (how long they
have been logged on and what story they are working on and such), so I
don't think that's necessary.  The only way an author/admin is logged in,
anymore, is by his regular username and password, and the user cookie that
goes with it.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Nathan V. <na...@th...>]

On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Chris Nandor wrote:

> At 13:39 -0800 01.24.2001, Brian Aker wrote:
> >Is there any reason why we are randomly generating a number
> >still in sessions to use it as the session ID? It could
> >easily be an autoincrement.
> 
> Since the session was being put into the cookie, and that was what
> authenticated you, a sequence of any kind would be dangerous.  Guess the
> right number and be authenticated as that admin.

Even a random number could be guessed by brute force, which is why most
session management includes a checksum including the client ip and a
secret value known only to the server.  Chapter 5 in the O'Reilly mod_perl
book (Stein and MacEachern) covers this in detail, especially p 213 and
following.

Have you considered using the Apache::Session module?  It seems to be a
good interface for generating unique session ids that are hard to spoof,
though I haven't used it yet (I rolled my own on the one project I've used
them for so far).

-n

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nathan Vonnahme             na...@th...
senior web developer        third sector technologies
http://enteuxis.org/nathan  http://thethirdsector.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  global = useless  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 13:39 -0800 01.24.2001, Brian Aker wrote:
>Is there any reason why we are randomly generating a number
>still in sessions to use it as the session ID? It could
>easily be an autoincrement.

Since the session was being put into the cookie, and that was what
authenticated you, a sequence of any kind would be dangerous.  Guess the
right number and be authenticated as that admin.


>For that matter the cookie basically isn't really needed
>any longer for sessions. It could all be done in the
>database now that we don't use that cookie for any
>sort of authenication. This isn't a priority but
>it is a waste of code at the moment.

Yes, since we no longer put it in the cookie, there is no longer a need to
make it random, I believe.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

Re: [Slashcode-development] pgsql beta

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 17:38 -0900 01.24.2001, Nathan Vonnahme wrote:
>> CertIndex.com Webmaster:
>>
>> > no, the pgsql port of bender being bender, which is now considered
>> > alpha.
>
>And actually, bender is now in beta....

Bender is in beta, but the postgresql support in bender is considered
alpha-quality.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

[Slashcode-development] sessions/generatesession

[Brian A. <br...@ta...>]

Is there any reason why we are randomly generating a number
still in sessions to use it as the session ID? It could
easily be an autoincrement.

For that matter the cookie basically isn't really needed
any longer for sessions. It could all be done in the
database now that we don't use that cookie for any
sort of authenication. This isn't a priority but
it is a waste of code at the moment.

	-Brian

Re: [Slashcode-development] pgsql beta

[Nathan V. <na...@th...>]

> CertIndex.com Webmaster:
> 
> > no, the pgsql port of bender being bender, which is now considered
> > alpha.

And actually, bender is now in beta....

Re: [Slashcode-development] problem running bender on debian

[Ask S. G. <cl...@sl...>]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:15:12 -0500, Tony Buser said:

> Welp, I started over from scratch, useing nothing from any Debian
>  distributions (except perl 5.6).  And its now working... it's still giving
>  me the "Issuing rollback() for database handle being DESTROY'd without
>  explicit disconnect()." error, but then immediately afterwards it gives the
>  normal startup apache message and it doesn't segfault...
>  
>  *shrugs*
>  

I'd like to reiterate something I came up with when I ran right smack into this
same problem when I first started on the Slashteam:

Never Trust Prebuilt Binaries -- Maybe I should make an acronym out of that
(NTPB).

;-)

Glad it's finally working now, Tony.

- Cliff

Re: [Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie capability.

[T F <tf...@ho...>]

>From: Chris Nandor <pu...@po...>
>Reply-To: sla...@li...
>To: sla...@li...
>CC: <sla...@li...>
>Subject: Re: [Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie 
>capability.
>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:40:41 -0500
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>At 01:59 -0800 01.24.2001, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
> >Persistent stories: Stories that are meant to be continuously used for
> >discussion regarding one or more issues/subjects/blah that do not 'time
> >out/die' like typical 'news' type stories that are tied to chronology. 
>The
> >example I gave was on a web design site, a story could be created for 
>'HTML
> >Help'. Since on a site like this that kind of story would always be
> >beneficial and isn't tied to anything chronological (like news stories.) 
>it
> >would be nice to have this always 'stick around'. It's pretty much the 
>only
> >real feature BB's like UBB and Phorum have over Slash and I see it
> >constantly requested.
> >
> >So that I don't have to preface any conversation regarding this with that
> >'definition' does anyone have a better suggestion for this kind of story
> >than persistent story? Otherwise I'll refer to it as that from now on 
>with
> >no preface.
>
>The only thing I don't see is how Slash (bender, esp.) does not have this
>now.  I mean, I see how some things would need to change to make this
>feature of Slash _better_ (as you stated in the rest of the post, about
>moderation, pruning comments, etc.), but it is there and it works, as far
>as I can tell.

Back to his moderating mod - letting someone moderate in a persistent story 
(aka a bender story since they're never archived) that they've already 
posted in:

Would this be a good case where using a story param could be used to mark a 
story 'nomoderatorlocking'?

So, after modifying article.pl, and/or one of the templates that has the 
show/no show for the moderation stuff, you'd be able to turn moderation on 
all the time for any particular story.




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Re: [Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie capability.

[Chris N. <pu...@po...>]

At 01:59 -0800 01.24.2001, CertIndex.com Webmaster wrote:
>Persistent stories: Stories that are meant to be continuously used for
>discussion regarding one or more issues/subjects/blah that do not 'time
>out/die' like typical 'news' type stories that are tied to chronology. The
>example I gave was on a web design site, a story could be created for 'HTML
>Help'. Since on a site like this that kind of story would always be
>beneficial and isn't tied to anything chronological (like news stories.) it
>would be nice to have this always 'stick around'. It's pretty much the only
>real feature BB's like UBB and Phorum have over Slash and I see it
>constantly requested.
>
>So that I don't have to preface any conversation regarding this with that
>'definition' does anyone have a better suggestion for this kind of story
>than persistent story? Otherwise I'll refer to it as that from now on with
>no preface.

The only thing I don't see is how Slash (bender, esp.) does not have this
now.  I mean, I see how some things would need to change to make this
feature of Slash _better_ (as you stated in the rest of the post, about
moderation, pruning comments, etc.), but it is there and it works, as far
as I can tell.

-- 
Chris Nandor                      pu...@po...    http://pudge.net/
Open Source Development Network    pu...@os...     http://osdn.com/

[Slashcode-development] Thoughts on persistent storie capability.

[CertIndex.com W. <web...@ce...>]

Persistent stories: Stories that are meant to be continuously used for
discussion regarding one or more issues/subjects/blah that do not 'time
out/die' like typical 'news' type stories that are tied to chronology. The
example I gave was on a web design site, a story could be created for 'HTML
Help'. Since on a site like this that kind of story would always be
beneficial and isn't tied to anything chronological (like news stories.) it
would be nice to have this always 'stick around'. It's pretty much the only
real feature BB's like UBB and Phorum have over Slash and I see it
constantly requested.

So that I don't have to preface any conversation regarding this with that
'definition' does anyone have a better suggestion for this kind of story
than persistent story? Otherwise I'll refer to it as that from now on with
no preface.

On to the reason for writing! In thinking about how persistent stories would
work, I came across a few question marks.

IIRC, BB's usuall 'prune' stories so you don't have a persistent story
sticking around for 5 years and ending up having 25k comments. I guess the
easy solution to this is to have some cron job do the same, but what do
other people think about how to handle this? (Or perhaps not handle it at
all and implement some 'date' type filter so people can choose to read only
comments made in the past x days. Or both? Or?)

Moderation: You cannot participate in a story you meta-moderated and vice
versa. Since persistent stories are, by nature, ongoing things, if this
policy remains you will have either people essentially 'banned' from
participating in ever-continuing discussion or people 'banned' from ever
moderating comments to it. The solution I see is a overhaul of the
meta-moderation system to allow every user (with configurable filters, for
example only allow *registered* users with karma > x and length of account
activity > y, etc.) the ability to moderate every comment in every story,
regardless of which stories they participate in. Basically the way
www.kuro5hin.org does it. It's a more democratic policy and since it allows
much more moderation, you have a finer grained moderation result. For
example, since 100 people moderated user Foo's comment, his rating will be
much more 'real' and accurate to the communities opinion of his comment than
if 5 people, 3 of which are Foo's pals, moderated him up. However I'm no
Stephen Hawking, so, what do you guys think?

There's several more but this is plenty to get started. I especially want to
know Brian's thoughts.

regards