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Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps
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From: <zeh...@mo...> - 2009-07-16 16:32:16
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Just to add my 0.2 cent - it would be nice if the new Map+Semantic Map extensions could be used in a similar independent way as the existing Semantic Google Maps extension (which should be replaced by SM if I see that correctly). I use an extended version of the Semantic Google Maps extension (which I need to deal with values in geo-coded multivalue properties) and it would be great if at some stage I could switch over to the new SM extension. Thanks, Gu Quoting jeroen De Dauw <jer...@ya...>: > Although the third option is entirely possible, and probably will work just > as well as when placing the form inputs to SM or SRF, I really doubt this is > good practice. It's kind of just throwing the code into one of the > extension's dependencies, which has quite frankly nothing do do with the > code, and then not bothering it any further since the code gets loaded where > it's needed. So I'd go only for this approach as a last resort. > > I also wouldn't let the fact that this is ANOTHER extension affect any design > decisions. After all, there already are a lot, so one more won't hurt. > Furthermore, Maps and Semantic Maps are in themselves bundling quite some > functionality (just look at how many map related extensions there are out > there), and so actually reducing the number of relevant extensions to choose > from. And when ready, I suppose it can be added to Semantic Bundle and > replace SGM and GG that are currenly in it. > > One more point for keeping SM seperate is that in the future functionallity > that is not suited to be in SRF might be added. If the code is in SRF, that > can hamper the developement of such code, since it'l then be more difficult > to get SM seperate again. > > > Cheers, > De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > > > Forum: code.bn2vs.com > Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > > Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > > Don't panic. Don't be evil. > 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sergey Chernyshev <ser...@gm...> > To: Yaron Koren <ya...@gm...> > Cc: ma...@se...; sem...@li...; > jeroen De Dauw <jer...@ya...> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:54:40 PM > Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps > > Actually, third options is OK - it just tells the system that "if SF is > enabled, here's additional functionality for it". > > This way, it can be SRF + Maps and that's it, right? Do you think there will > be other feature in the future that can go into "Semantic Maps" that will go > beyond being either part of Maps or SRF? If not, then making it just Maps + > SRF might be a good idea - this will definitely will increase distribution. > After all, how many "Semantic *" extensions can we have? ;) > > Thank you, > > Sergey > > > -- > Sergey Chernyshev > http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/ > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Yaron Koren <ya...@gm...> wrote: > > >Let me first comment that I don't think translation/internationalization is > an issue either way - translatewiki.net already handles dozens of extensions, > and more are always being added; for them to add another extension to the set > is trivial, and the translators do an excellent job of taking care of new > values, regardless of which extension they came from. > > > >I think perhaps it comes down to a philosophical issue of whether the > Semantic Result Formats extension is meant to contain all formats not defined > in SMW; or whether it's just a utility extension. The 'calendar' format in > SRF already breaks the rules somewhat by defining new parser functions in > addition to just a format; but form inputs seem to go beyond that, in that > they're not tied in with querying at all. > > > >I should note that there's a third option, which is to move the form inputs > into the "Maps" extension: after all, they're just a hook, and people who > aren't using SMW/SF can ignore the code. It's probably not a good idea, but I > wanted to "throw that out there". > > > >-Yaron > > > > > > > >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Markus Krötzsch > <ma...@se...> wrote: > > > >On Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009, jeroen De Dauw wrote: > >>>>> Hey, > >>>>> > >>>>> After my GSoC project ends, I will remain active in the community, > continue > >>>>> to support both extensions, and very probably continue on improving > them. > >>>>> To what extend will ofcourse depend on how much work I'll have at > >>>>> university. > >> > >>Of course. Free software always requires free time. It's already great if > >>>>there will be some amount of continued bug fixing and basic maintenance. > >> > >> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> When released, both extensions will have roughly the same size as they > have > >>>>> now. Maps is by far the largest, couse it contains the Open Layers API. > >>>>> Semantic Maps will be pretty small, and should therefore not form any > >>>>> problem when putting the code into SRF. So, as I see it, there are two > >>>>> advantages to ading the SM code to SRF: easier to distribute and a > bigger > >>>>> user base. > >> > >>+ slightly easier translation/internationalisation since you can use SRF's > >>>>message file and don't have to ask Siebrand for a new one ;-). > >> > >> > >>>>> And 2 disadvantages: it adds prerequests to the map > >>>>> functionallity in SRF (SF & Maps), > >> > >>This is not a problem. SRF already includes various printers that introduce > >>>>further prerequisites. These printers are simply not enabled by default, > and > >>>>the dependencies are stated in the SRF docs. SRF has a simple way of > >>>>configuring which printers to make available by switching them on or off > in > >>>>LocalSettings. > >> > >> > >>>>> and it's less easy to maintain. > >> > >>Why is that? Every printer in SRF is pretty independent from the others and > >>>>has its own subdirectory. So it does not make much of a difference > compared to > >>>>having a separate directory for one printer. Getting an SVN account for > >>>>MediaWiki would be a good idea anyway (if you don't have one already). > >> > >>>>(As a bonus, SMW-related SVN code gets its documentation at > >>http://semantic-mediawiki.org/doc/ ;-) > >> > >> > >>>>-- Markus > >> > >> > >>>>> IMHO > >>>>> this is not very conclusive, and I think that unless there are more > >>>>> arguments, it's best to let it be as it is for the moment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sergey: Thanks for your suggestions, they are all valid, and I'll > implement > >>>>> some of them before the first release. > >>>>> > >>>>> Markus: Thanks for pointing out the links/footnote stuff. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any more suggestions about Maps and Semantic Maps? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Forum: code.bn2vs.com > >>>>> Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > >>>>> > >>>>> Don't panic. Don't be evil. > >>>>> 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Markus Krötzsch <ma...@se...> > >>>>> To: sem...@li... > >>>>> Cc: Sergey Chernyshev <ser...@gm...>; jeroen De Dauw > >>>>> <jer...@ya...> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49:13 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2009, Sergey Chernyshev wrote: > >>>>> > Great news, Jaroen! It's great to see that Mapping becomes more of > the > >>>>> > generic solution. > >>>>> > >>>>> +1, having a single (semantic) mapping extension is certainly a worthy > >>>>> goal. Including this (the semantic part) into SRF would be useful if > the > >>>>> required code is not overly large. This would simplify distribution and > >>>>> increase the user base, I believe. It would also let you use SRF's > >>>>> translatewiki.net account for internationalization. > >>>>> > >>>>> SRF can also include experimental software, but it is of course > desirable > >>>>> that somebody is in charge of maintaining each component. Are you > >>>>> supporting this code after the GSoC time ends, or is someone else > expected > >>>>> to take over? > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Markus > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> P.S. Our public online emails archives do (for security reasons) only > show > >>>>> plain text versions of emails, but the plain text part of your email > >>>>> contains no hints that you included hyperlinks (bad HTML serializer > ...). > >>>>> It would thus be useful to include URLs explicitly (using "[1]" style > >>>>> footnotes for long URLs), so that people browsing mails online can also > >>>>> access them. I guess this also applies to subscribers who use email > digests > >>>>> or text-only email clients. > >>>>> > >>>>> P.P.S. This said, here are the relevant links: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps > >>>>> * Sem' Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps > >>>>> * Source code: http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip > >>>>> * Updates on Jeroen's blog: http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > I have a few suggestions though: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Maps: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > - I think default mapping service should be configurable through > the > >>>>> > LocalSettings.php using some global variable. > >>>>> > - Mapping services available to the users should also be > configurable > >>>>> > as an array of available services. > >>>>> > - it's probably a good idea to remove (or make optional) primary > >>>>> > parameter name - coordinates for display_point and address for > >>>>> > display_address. This way default calls can be abbreviated to > >>>>> > *{{#display_point:55.7557860, > >>>>> > 37.6176330}}* and *{{#display_address:Moscow, Russia}}* which > should > >>>>> > simplify usage significantly. > >>>>> > - Also, for map types, I think Yahoo provides all the types Google > >>>>> > provides and it's worth adding too (it's probably in your plans > >>>>> > anyway) - I'll also recommend adding zoombox definition by boundary > >>>>> > coordinates or radius around the points - this might be very useful, > but > >>>>> > harder to implement. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Similar suggestions for the Semantic Maps: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > - add generic map format that will use default configuration for > the > >>>>> > Maps extension, e.g. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > {{#ask:[[Category:Locations]]|?Has coordinates|format=map}} > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I'm not sure if moving Semantic Maps as a whole into SRF is > necessarily a > >>>>> > good idea as it adds some functionality to Semantic Forms and > therefore > >>>>> > has it as prerequisite - it might be reasonable to move map display > code > >>>>> > to SRF, but then it's not clear if having forms code separately in > >>>>> > another extension is viable. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Thank you, > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Sergey > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > -- > >>>>> > Sergey Chernyshev > >>>>> > http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/ > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:51 AM, jeroen De Dauw > >>>>> > >>>>> <jer...@ya...>wrote: > >>>>> > > Hey all, > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > First of all, let me introduce myself. > >>>>> > > I'm Jeroen De Dauw, one of the GSoC students for Wikimedia > foundation > >>>>> > > this year. I'm working on a map extension for Semantic > >>>>> > > > MediaWiki<http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki>with > >>>>> > > Yaron Koren <http://yaronkoren.com/> as mentor. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > During the last 2 months I've been working on this extension (which > has > >>>>> > > actually split into 2 seperate extensions: > >>>>> > > Maps<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps>and Semantic Maps > >>>>> > > <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps> - click the > >>>>> > > links for more info about either extension), and I'm reaching the > final > >>>>> > > stage before the first release. I'd like to get some feedback on > the > >>>>> > > code and overall structure of the extensions before I continue, to > >>>>> > > ensure no mayor design flaws are present. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > You can get the code for both extensions > >>>>> > > here<http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip>. Note that this > code > >>>>> > > is still purely dev material, and should NOT be used in a > production > >>>>> > > environment. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > One of the big questions about the Semantic Maps code is if it > should > >>>>> > > just be added to Semantic Result Formats or remain separate. What > are > >>>>> > > your opinions about this? > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Any feedback is welcome. For those who are wondering, if no mayor > flaws > >>>>> > > are found, both extensions will probably be released in a one or > two > >>>>> > > week time frame. (I'm posting updates > >>>>> > > <http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/> on my blog.) > >>>>> > > Cheers, > >>>>> > > De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Forum: code <http://code.bn2vs.com>.bn2vs.com > <http://code.bn2vs.com> > >>>> > >> > >>> > > Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > >>>>> > > Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Don't panic. Don't be evil. > >>>>> > > 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> > >-- ----- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>>>> > > This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited > >>>>> > > time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App > World(TM) > >>>>> > > will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer > Challenge. > >>>>> > > See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > >>>>> > > Sem...@li... > >>>>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > >> > >> > >>>>-- > >>>>Markus Krötzsch > >>>>Semantic MediaWiki http://semantic-mediawiki.org > >>http://korrekt.org ma...@se... > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >>>>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>>>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, > >>>>vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have > >>>>the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full > prize > >>>>details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > >>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Semediawiki-devel mailing list > >>Sem...@li... > >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, > >>vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have > >>the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full prize > >>details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > >_______________________________________________ > >>Semediawiki-devel mailing list > >Sem...@li... > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > > > > |