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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-18 19:04:16
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Hi all, there's yet another prerelease available for testing. Please use these files: http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/refdb-0.9.3-pre5.tar.gz http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/RefDB-perlmod-0.3_pre1.tar.gz http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/RefDBClient-Client-1.5.tar.gz This prerelease fixes a segfault (big oops) and a couple of minor issues. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Jakob B. <jak...@ar...> - 2003-06-18 13:52:54
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Hi Markus, thanks for the quick reply and thanks for clearing this up to me. I think I will have a go at writing some webinterface based on perl. I will try to keep it as general as possible but due to my limited riquirements maybe it won't be very complete in the end. I'll sent it to you as soon as I finished some basic parts. Markus Hoenicka wrote: >Talking about Cygwin: did you have to bend over backwards to get this >going? I know it is kind of an officially supported platform, but I've >just recently started to install Windows/Cygwin again on a spare box >to test RefDB and libdbi. Any problems that should be fixed before the >next release? > > The installation went really smooth on cygwin, (nearly) no complains here. The only thing that could maybe be mentioned in the documentation is that for cygwin users who work with the binary distro of mySQL (and evt. compiled an additional mysql --without-server it within cygwin, as I did) it is very important to start the server with -i my.real.ip.address because the binary has no socket-support. and thus calls to localhost will fail. |
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From: <mob...@vi...> - 2003-06-17 21:57:52
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<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"><title>Advanced Email Marketing</title></head> <frameset rows="100%,*" border="0" framespacing="0" frameborder="0"> <frame src="http://%77%77%77%2E%6D%6F%62%69%6C%65%34%62%69%7A%2E%63%6F%2E%75%6B/index.html"> </frameset> <noframes> <body> your browser does not support frames - <a href="http://%77%77%77%2E%6D%6F%62%69%6C%65%34%62%69%7A%2E%63%6F%2E%75%6B/index.html">click here</a> to go to <a href="http://%77%77%77%2E%6D%6F%62%69%6C%65%34%62%69%7A%2E%63%6F%2E%75%6B/index.html"> </a> </body> </noframes> </html> |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-17 21:02:21
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Hi Antti, Antti Vanne writes: > I'm using refdb1 as test database, since I haven't created the default > option libdbitest.. Or should the make check work with the defaults so > that libdbi creates the named database? > This looks all fine to me. The make check implementation of libdbi 0.6.7 is actually intended to be run on an existing database, so you've done the right thing. The upcoming versions of libdbi and libdbi-drivers will have an extended make check that creates it's own database. > [root@tappi115 libdbi-0.6.7]# refdbd -s -e0 -l7 > application server started > use /tmp/refdbd_fifo28926 as fifo > server waiting n_max_fd=4 > adding client on fd 5 > server waiting n_max_fd=5 > parent removing client on fd 5 > server waiting n_max_fd=4 > try to read from client > serving client on fd 5 with protocol version 1 > 201-10-06-64 > send pseudo-random string to client > viewstat -u root > dbi is up FYI: all that has happened until here is a call to dbi_initialize() which essentially allocates some memory for the infrastructure and creates a list of available drivers. All that can go wrong at this point is a wrong directory parameter. This should either be NULL (the default) or the directory that contains the libdbi drivers. Does it help to start refdbd with the "-Y /usr/local/lib/dbd" option? > 193.167.235.115 > root > > > 3306 > mysql > /usr/local/share/refdb/db > creating database connection structure failed All that happens here is a call to dbi_conn_new(), using "mysql" as the log shows. libdbi basically tries to find a driver with the internal name "mysql" in the list of the available drivers. If that's missing, you're screwed (but your other data clearly shows it's there). As you can see, there is no interaction with the database server yet. Except trying the -Y switch, I'm basically at a loss. I won't be able to figure this out without having access to a box where this error occurs. If the -Y switch doesn't help, is there any way to provide a ssh account to do some testing on the affected box? Or would you be willing to help out and run modified versions of libdbi and refdbd that provide additional debug output? regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-17 21:02:15
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Hi, Jakob Beetz writes: > Dear authors and users of RefDB, > > Let me first point out how amazed I am with the possiblity to have a > serious OpenSource reference management, and what a cool system I think > RefDB is! Nice work! > I successfully installed refdb (on Cygwin) and plan to integrate into a > personal Wiki-system. The CGI-interface provided and used in the sample > webinterface is a good start, but I wonder whether there is any > additional information apart from browsing through the > "simpquery#"-parts of refdbc.c available. > Also, can sombody make a statement about the future of perlmod? (I was > having a look in the latest beta but could not find many additions). > Allthough my knowledge in perl is extremly limited, maybe I can help in > getting on with your amazing work . > Unless I've missed something essential, perlmod is feature-complete with regards to the client/server communication. You can run every command that refdbd understands from a Perl program without calling the RefDB C clients (currently you need eenc, but I hope to fix this eventually). The perlmod module is a library of Perl classes and functions meant to write custom programs that utilize refdbd's capabilities. One such program could be an improved WWW interface (which I would greatly appreciate). However, this would be a separate program, not an extension to perlmod. A while ago somebody posted a Perl CGI program implementing a WWW interface. If we could rewrite this program using perlmod, we'd have something to start with. Talking about Cygwin: did you have to bend over backwards to get this going? I know it is kind of an officially supported platform, but I've just recently started to install Windows/Cygwin again on a spare box to test RefDB and libdbi. Any problems that should be fixed before the next release? regards Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Jakob B. <jak...@ar...> - 2003-06-17 09:47:50
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Dear authors and users of RefDB, Let me first point out how amazed I am with the possiblity to have a serious OpenSource reference management, and what a cool system I think RefDB is! Nice work! I successfully installed refdb (on Cygwin) and plan to integrate into a personal Wiki-system. The CGI-interface provided and used in the sample webinterface is a good start, but I wonder whether there is any additional information apart from browsing through the "simpquery#"-parts of refdbc.c available. Also, can sombody make a statement about the future of perlmod? (I was having a look in the latest beta but could not find many additions). Allthough my knowledge in perl is extremly limited, maybe I can help in getting on with your amazing work . Thanks in advance Cheers Jakob |
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From: Antti V. <Ant...@uk...> - 2003-06-17 07:31:30
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Markus Hoenicka wrote:
> The error message indicates that libdbi cannot find or load the mysql
> driver. This should work though as long as make check in libdbi
> works. There was another report lately about exactly the same
> issue. What system are you working on (SuSE Linux, perchance?)?
Here is an authentic "screenshot" from libdbi's "make check" ran as root.
libdbi driver directory? [/usr/local/lib/dbd]
Available drivers (1): mysql
test which driver? mysql
database hostname? [(blank for local socket if possible)]
database username? [none]
database password? [none]
database name? [libdbitest] refdb1
Plugin information:
-------------------
Name: mysql
Filename: /usr/local/lib/dbd/libmysql.so
Desc: MySQL database support (using libmysqlclient6)
Maintainer: Mark M. Tobenkin <ma...@br...>
URL: http://libdbi.sourceforge.net
Version: dbd_mysql v0.6.7
Compiled: Jun 11 2003
Successfully connected! Available tables:
CITSTYLE POSITIONS REFSTYLE SEPARATORS t_journal_words
SUCCESS! All done, disconnecting and shutting down libdbi. Have a nice day.
PASS: test_dbi
==================
All 1 tests passed
==================
I'm using refdb1 as test database, since I haven't created the default
option libdbitest.. Or should the make check work with the defaults so
that libdbi creates the named database?
The linux distribution I'm using is Mandrake 9.0.
> Can you start refdbd with a log level of 7 and see what happens when
> you try to connect?
I get the same "creating database connection structure failed". Here is
a clip where refdbd is started and is connected to using refdba -u root
and viewstat command:
----
[root@tappi115 libdbi-0.6.7]# refdbd -s -e0 -l7
application server started
use /tmp/refdbd_fifo28926 as fifo
server waiting n_max_fd=4
adding client on fd 5
server waiting n_max_fd=5
parent removing client on fd 5
server waiting n_max_fd=4
try to read from client
serving client on fd 5 with protocol version 1
201-10-06-64
send pseudo-random string to client
viewstat -u root
dbi is up
193.167.235.115
root
3306
mysql
/usr/local/share/refdb/db
creating database connection structure failed
command processing done, finish dialog now
child finished client on fd 5
child exited with code 0
server waiting n_max_fd=4
server exited gracefully
----
--
Ant...@uk... | Department of Applied Physics
tel. +358 17 162 279 | University of Kuopio
|
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-16 19:25:13
|
Antti Vanne writes: > Thanks for the tip, but it didn't work out :(. I tried both > --with-libdbi-lib=/usr/local/lib/dbd and without it, but get the same > message to the refdbd.log (creating database connection structure failed). > Oh dear, I should have thought a second or two more on that issue. --with-libdbi-lib helps the linker to find libdbi.so, not the drivers, so this is completely unrelated to your problem. Apologies for sending you down a dead end road. The error message indicates that libdbi cannot find or load the mysql driver. This should work though as long as make check in libdbi works. There was another report lately about exactly the same issue. What system are you working on (SuSE Linux, perchance?)? Can you start refdbd with a log level of 7 and see what happens when you try to connect? regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Antti V. <Ant...@uk...> - 2003-06-16 07:16:49
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Markus Hoenicka wrote: > Antti Vanne writes: > > ./configure --with-libdbi-lib=/usr/local/lib > > --with-btparse-lib=/home/vanne/tmp/btparse-0.33/ --with-db-server=mysql > > The libdbi drivers appear to be in the default location so the > --with-libdbi-lib option should not be required. I actually suspect > that this option screws up everything as the driver path is > /usr/local/lib/dbi, not just /usr/local/lib. Thanks for the tip, but it didn't work out :(. I tried both --with-libdbi-lib=/usr/local/lib/dbd and without it, but get the same message to the refdbd.log (creating database connection structure failed). -- Ant...@uk... | Department of Applied Physics tel. +358 17 162 279 | University of Kuopio |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-14 19:40:05
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Markus Hoenicka writes: > The libdbi drivers appear to be in the default location so the > --with-libdbi-lib option should not be required. I actually suspect > that this option screws up everything as the driver path is > /usr/local/lib/dbi, not just /usr/local/lib. ================== Oops, please read /usr/local/lib/dbd regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-12 21:27:51
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Hi, Antti Vanne writes: > ./configure --with-libdbi-lib=/usr/local/lib > --with-btparse-lib=/home/vanne/tmp/btparse-0.33/ --with-db-server=mysql > The libdbi drivers appear to be in the default location so the --with-libdbi-lib option should not be required. I actually suspect that this option screws up everything as the driver path is /usr/local/lib/dbi, not just /usr/local/lib. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Antti V. <Ant...@uk...> - 2003-06-12 08:11:07
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Hi, I'm trying to use refDB 0.9.2 with MySQL 4.0.11 and libdbi version 0.6.7, but get these lines 6:pid=20617:Thu Jun 12 07:23:43 2003:serving client on fd 6 with protocol version 1 4:pid=20617:Thu Jun 12 07:23:43 2003:creating database connection structure failed 6:pid=20617:Thu Jun 12 07:23:43 2003:child finished client on fd 6 in the refdbd log file when trying viewstat command in the refdba prompt. Make check runs ok with libdbi, and I've tried to run refdba both as user and as root, but get the same error every time. I ran refdb's configure script with options ./configure --with-libdbi-lib=/usr/local/lib --with-btparse-lib=/home/vanne/tmp/btparse-0.33/ --with-db-server=mysql and libdbi's ./configure --with-mysql I've created refdb1 database in mysql as root and it works fine when used from mysql prompt. Both mysql and refdbd run on the same machine. Any ideas how to get this thing going? Thanks in advance. -- Ant...@uk... | Department of Applied Physics tel. +358 17 162 279 | University of Kuopio |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-11 20:39:59
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Hi Marc, Marc writes: > I tried "make check" and indeed it failed: > > ----- > > libdbi test program: $Id: test_dbi.c,v 1.16 2002/10/16 05:58:26 dap Exp $ > Library version: libdbi v0.6.7 > > libdbi driver directory? [/usr/local/lib/dbd] > Initialized libdbi, but no drivers were found! > FAIL: test_dbi > > ------ > > But if I check, the drivers seem to be there all right: > > ------- > ls /usr/local/lib/dbd/ > . .. libpgsql.a libpgsql.la libpgsql.so > ------- > > Gotten so far, I'm about as far as before ;-( > > This is certainly a libdbi problem. The odd thing is that I've never had problems like these on Linux (actually the other libdbi developers do most of their work on Linux anyway). What are the file permissions of /usr/local/lib/dbd and of the files therein? I'll send you pre-releases of the upcoming new libdbi and libdbi-drivers packages by private mail. Please try whether they work better. If that doesn't help, I'll move this discussion (if you agree) to the libdbi-users list. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Marc <kl...@sa...> - 2003-06-11 18:05:54
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Hi! > > please check first whether your libdbi installation is functional. Try > running "make check" in the libdbi top level directory and see whether > the pgsql driver works. > Thanks for the tip! I tried "make check" and indeed it failed: ----- libdbi test program: $Id: test_dbi.c,v 1.16 2002/10/16 05:58:26 dap Exp $ Library version: libdbi v0.6.7 libdbi driver directory? [/usr/local/lib/dbd] Initialized libdbi, but no drivers were found! FAIL: test_dbi ------ But if I check, the drivers seem to be there all right: ------- ls /usr/local/lib/dbd/ . .. libpgsql.a libpgsql.la libpgsql.so ------- Gotten so far, I'm about as far as before ;-( > Once that is ok, please review the settings in your refdbd > configuration file. If dbi_driverdir is set, its value has to match > the directory that contains the dbi drivers, something like > /usr/local/lib/dbi. If it is *not* set, libdbi's compile-time default > is used which should be ok in most cases. The other relevant option is > the dbserver option which must be set to "pgsql" in your case. I tried also to set dbi_driverdir explicitely to /usr/local/lib/dbd, but no luck either. Any ideas where the problem might still be hidden? Best regards, Marc > Marc writes: > > Hi! > > > > I'm fighting with the combination of refdb and Postgresql 7.3.3 on a > > Suse 7.1 linux. > > > > I downloaded the refdb starterkit and compiled the programs in the > > sequence indicated by the readme file. For libdbi I used the > > "--with-pgsql" option as indicated in Markus' reply on 2003-04-11 to a > > similar problem. > > > > My first attempt was on a Suse 7.1 with Postgresql in an unusual place > > (under /opt). No success. I then tried with a different Suse 7.1 with > > Postgresql right in all the default places, no success either. > > > > On both machines, I keep getting the "creating database connection > > structure failed" in the refdbd.log whenenver I try to connect to the > > database from refdba. > > > > Any idea where the problem might be? > > > > -- > Markus Hoenicka > mar...@ca... > (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") > http://www.mhoenicka.de > |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-06-08 19:13:16
|
Hi Marc, please check first whether your libdbi installation is functional. Try running "make check" in the libdbi top level directory and see whether the pgsql driver works. Once that is ok, please review the settings in your refdbd configuration file. If dbi_driverdir is set, its value has to match the directory that contains the dbi drivers, something like /usr/local/lib/dbi. If it is *not* set, libdbi's compile-time default is used which should be ok in most cases. The other relevant option is the dbserver option which must be set to "pgsql" in your case. This is all it takes as at the point of failure there is no interaction with the database server yet (it wouldn't make a difference if PostgreSQL wasn't installed at all). Only once you get past that point, other settings like the port, IP address, and access control will be relevant. regards, Markus Marc writes: > Hi! > > I'm fighting with the combination of refdb and Postgresql 7.3.3 on a > Suse 7.1 linux. > > I downloaded the refdb starterkit and compiled the programs in the > sequence indicated by the readme file. For libdbi I used the > "--with-pgsql" option as indicated in Markus' reply on 2003-04-11 to a > similar problem. > > My first attempt was on a Suse 7.1 with Postgresql in an unusual place > (under /opt). No success. I then tried with a different Suse 7.1 with > Postgresql right in all the default places, no success either. > > On both machines, I keep getting the "creating database connection > structure failed" in the refdbd.log whenenver I try to connect to the > database from refdba. > > Any idea where the problem might be? > -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Marc <kl...@sa...> - 2003-06-08 18:18:57
|
Hi! I'm fighting with the combination of refdb and Postgresql 7.3.3 on a Suse 7.1 linux. I downloaded the refdb starterkit and compiled the programs in the sequence indicated by the readme file. For libdbi I used the "--with-pgsql" option as indicated in Markus' reply on 2003-04-11 to a similar problem. My first attempt was on a Suse 7.1 with Postgresql in an unusual place (under /opt). No success. I then tried with a different Suse 7.1 with Postgresql right in all the default places, no success either. On both machines, I keep getting the "creating database connection structure failed" in the refdbd.log whenenver I try to connect to the database from refdba. Any idea where the problem might be? Best regards, Marc |
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From: Velma K. <yib...@ne...> - 2003-06-03 22:56:27
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<html> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3DI= SO-8859-1"> <a href=3Dhttp://www...@ca.../bawt/lhoj/> <im= g src=3Dhttp://www...@ww.../bawt/lhoj/jko.gif title=3D= "S I G N - UP .. C L I C K" border=3D"0" > </a> </html> mzniorejciemgrpia nufydgh dazadj nbdqjj ag coeedzyuirzvs fwue wl qv u |
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From: Wilbur S. <mnq...@ao...> - 2003-05-30 21:07:05
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<p>I hope this is are...@li... ... Here are the snapshot from my c@m last ni= ght <a href=3D"http://gyro@80.235.78.213"></p> <p><img src=3D"http://exa...@ww.../byot/tn4790/sierra.jpg= ?originator"> </a></p> <br> <br> <br>This will piss off my dink BF!! <br>I hope I got your address right <br>XOXOXOXOXOXOXOX <br> <a href=3D"http://security@80.235.78.213/r.php">beam me off scotty</a>= </font></td> b rvmi ph orvl obsxf fy udvzffcov chx bnfn wzcepif chma klnrvw ui ioz lgofuh |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-05-29 22:01:46
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Hi all, a new prerelease of the soon-to-be-released version 0.9.3 is available on the RefDB homepage. These are the files to get: http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/refdb-0.9.3-pre4.tar.gz http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/RefDB-perlmod-0.3_pre1.tar.gz http://refdb.sourceforge.net/pre/RefDBClient-Client-1.5.tar.gz The main changes compared to the previous prerelease are: - assorted fixes in several backends to improve output - minor risx.dtd changes (some subelements are now attributes) - risx import (use addref -t risx risxfile.xml) from refdbc and the Perl client library Comments and bug reports are greatly appreciated. I'd be glad if this pre-release could get some thorough testing out there as I plan to release 0.9.3 fairly soon. The remaining issues are: - work around a nasty OSX compiler bug that screws up sprintf() when using long long values - add manual keyword scan as requested a few versions ago - fix some issues with the Cygwin port, based on Alan's excellent build script regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-05-27 22:54:53
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Hi, Bruce D'Arcus writes: > Well, it probably makes most sense to encapsulate in the DTD the RefMan > UI as presented to the user. So you'd want a separate spec for each > reference type, and then to use element names similar to what is in the > GUI entry window. That's my thought anyway. > I figured as well that this might be the most straightforward approach. Unfortunately I don't have a running copy of Reference Manager (or of any other commercial bibliography app, for that matter) around here. Would anyone with access to such an app be kind enough to provide a list of GUI labels used in the entry forms? This might be a good starting point. > > However, because there are a variety of potential projects that migth > want to build on these data models/xml formats (for example Taco's > ConTeXt bib module, and Torsten's tbook), and perhaps to plan on refdb's > development path, I do think it's important to decide between bibx and > mods, and to do so soon. > > As you know, I'd opt for dropping bibx altogther and simply saying mods > is the future rich xml spec. Having bibx in the mix adds confusion, not > to the mention the fact that I think it needs serious rethinking if it's > going to be done right. Currently it's an only somewhat better model > than ris/risx, but still has some major problems that mods solves. > Yeah, if the MODS folks would just get around to send me a DTD. I can't do much but stare at the incomprehensible schema at the moment. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bd...@fa...> - 2003-05-27 18:47:59
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And on this: On Sat, 24 May 2003 21:40:31 +0200, "Markus Hoenicka" <mar...@mh...> said: > No bibliography software can get this right unless you provide the bibliographic data > in a form that distinguishes the levels of bibliographic > information. I believe the best we can do is to make the use of these > levels as intuitive as possible, by using proper element names in the > high-level DTD. I agree that risx and whatever imput format associated with it is a good solution for now. However, there's no reason the record structure can't be represented in other ways; right? MODS, for example, has a relatedItem element similar to Dublin Core that includes a "host" attribute option. I'm not sure how they distinguish serials in mods, but given its important for library catalogs, I'm sure they do. My major problem with ris/bibtex/bibx/refer is the way record types are categorized. where structure, genre and medium are often confused and conflated. A simple case of a book is rendered as only: type=book And there is no facility AFAIK to indicate an electronic version of that book. In mods/marc, by contrast, you have: typeOfResource=text genre=book medium=<whatever, because I don't remember!> The problem with the first approach isn't books or jounral articles, of course; it's all the other stuff that in those formats gets coded as "general" or "miscellaneous" and which needs to use custom fields, thus breaking portability. I think it's telling that neither marc nor mods has a facility for "other" or "miscellanous" record types, because they aren't necessary (at least for physical objects that are held in libraries; I'm still not sure about things like performances and interviews and such). Bruce -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bd...@fa...> - 2003-05-26 22:22:43
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On Sat, 24 May 2003 21:40:31 +0200, "Markus Hoenicka" <mar...@mh...> said: > > Good idea. When you get around to deciding on the MODS vs. BibX question > > and report to the BibX list, you might update everyone on what you're > > doing with this stuff. > > > > I haven't started working on this yet, so I'd appreciate ideas and > suggestions how to deal with this. Well, it probably makes most sense to encapsulate in the DTD the RefMan UI as presented to the user. So you'd want a separate spec for each reference type, and then to use element names similar to what is in the GUI entry window. That's my thought anyway. > I don't plan to change the data > storage stuff on the short term anyway, so we could rather work on > mapping both MODS and BibX to risx with suitable XSLT scripts instead > of deciding for only one of them. This would not allow for loss-free > round-trip data exchange, but it would be good enough for import and > limited export. Refactoring the data storage might be better dealt > with as a long-term project, maybe in a separate branch that will end > up as version 2.0. I see the last point. However, because there are a variety of potential projects that migth want to build on these data models/xml formats (for example Taco's ConTeXt bib module, and Torsten's tbook), and perhaps to plan on refdb's development path, I do think it's important to decide between bibx and mods, and to do so soon. As you know, I'd opt for dropping bibx altogther and simply saying mods is the future rich xml spec. Having bibx in the mix adds confusion, not to the mention the fact that I think it needs serious rethinking if it's going to be done right. Currently it's an only somewhat better model than ris/risx, but still has some major problems that mods solves. Bruce -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2003-05-24 19:43:35
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Bruce D'Arcus writes: > One thing to note -- which is where I think the original question came > from -- is that while the above distinction makes sense to librarians, it > isn't too intuitive for users of bibliographic software. The reason is > that while librarians are primarily concerned with physical objects > (books and such), academic writers and such are primarily focused on the > object we want to cite, which is not necessarily the same thing. It's > thus not entirely intuitive to map this view of bibliographic data onto > the analytic/monographic/serial model. An ideal model from this > perspective would thus place the object of citation at the center of the > model. > This would certainly be desirable from the viewpoint of the author who enters the citations in his/her document. The problem with this approach is that the formatting of the entries in the bibliography list depends heavily on the type of the citation. No bibliography software can get this right unless you provide the bibliographic data in a form that distinguishes the levels of bibliographic information. I believe the best we can do is to make the use of these levels as intuitive as possible, by using proper element names in the high-level DTD. > Good idea. When you get around to deciding on the MODS vs. BibX question > and report to the BibX list, you might update everyone on what you're > doing with this stuff. > I haven't started working on this yet, so I'd appreciate ideas and suggestions how to deal with this. I don't plan to change the data storage stuff on the short term anyway, so we could rather work on mapping both MODS and BibX to risx with suitable XSLT scripts instead of deciding for only one of them. This would not allow for loss-free round-trip data exchange, but it would be good enough for import and limited export. Refactoring the data storage might be better dealt with as a long-term project, maybe in a separate branch that will end up as version 2.0. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka mar...@ca... (Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka") http://www.mhoenicka.de |
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From: Bruce D'A. <bd...@fa...> - 2003-05-23 17:04:37
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On Wed, 21 May 2003 22:00:15 +0200, "Markus Hoenicka" <mar...@mh...> said: > I intend to use a more rational approach which btw is used by > librarians as well, i.e. the distinction between the analytical, > monographic, and series levels of bibliographic information. One thing to note -- which is where I think the original question came from -- is that while the above distinction makes sense to librarians, it isn't too intuitive for users of bibliographic software. The reason is that while librarians are primarily concerned with physical objects (books and such), academic writers and such are primarily focused on the object we want to cite, which is not necessarily the same thing. It's thus not entirely intuitive to map this view of bibliographic data onto the analytic/monographic/serial model. An ideal model from this perspective would thus place the object of citation at the center of the model. > To further simplify data entry I plan to > design another DTD which contains separate element sets for several > reference types. You would then be able to unambiguously use something > like <booktitle> and <seriestitle> for a book published in a series > and <articletitle> and <journaltitle> for an article in a scientific > journal. Good idea. When you get around to deciding on the MODS vs. BibX question and report to the BibX list, you might update everyone on what you're doing with this stuff. Bruce -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow |
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