rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

[Rails-devel] Bug report in 1835 (Clemens) - Game incorrectly identifying a company director.

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

Hi Guys,

Here's another bug to be investigated:

The game is 1835, Clemens option. During stock round 10, player m3 attempted
to sell shares in He (player m4 is the president). The option offered when
attempting to sell shares was "Sell 1 10% certificates(s) (10%) of HE for
100M, swapping president for 2 10% certificates." In other words, the game
is misidentifying the 20% He certificate owned by player 3 as the
President's share.

Save Game: 1835_20120508_1321_m3.rails

Bug initially discovered in version 1.7.2, confirmed as persisting in
version 1.7.3.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com




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[Rails-devel] FW: Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Stefan,

It was bug #1 in Mike Bourke's report a while ago.  You did confirm the
problem before I entered the stage, but you may not have seen the exception,
which I reported later.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 7:27 AM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2
> 
> While playing a game of 1830 (simple Option) recently, I noticed a pair of
> subtle bugs in the game system. Log files for these bugs are not available
but
> saved games are, and I have verified that the bugs are reproducible using
the
> specific techniques described below.
> 
> Bug #1: Problem ending company Op round when president has been forced
> to sell shares.
> 
> Details: The B&O president has just been forced to sell shares in order to
> raise the capital for a diesel. Play then moves to the newly-launched C&O,
> but the game freezes. C&O never gets to lay track, the map window (top
> left) reads "lay token" and "no token" and both choices are greyed out, as
> are the buttons at the bottom of the map window ("Done", "undo", "redo").
> However, as soon as "save game" is performed, the problem clears itself.
> 
> To reproduce this bug:
> 
> 1. load 1830_20120415_0220_M4.rails.
> 2. In the game report, locate and click on the entry that reads "B&O does
not
> pay a dividend", then "play from here."
> 3. In the map window, click on "buy train". Note the relative order of L&N
> and C&O shares.
> 4. Sell 2 shares of PRR, 1 share of NYC, and (critical) 1 share of L&N.
Note that
> the relative order of L&N and C&O shares have changed because of the sale
> of shares.
> 5. Click "done".

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I have pushed the implementation of the delayed laying of the price token
for companies with a fixed starting price.

This applies to 1835 (it fixes a bug reported by Volker Schnell) and 1825.
Only defaults are set.

Please note: the fixed starting price is NOT yet indicated on the Stock
Chart before floating time.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:27 PM
> To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company
> 
> Stefan,
> 
> No, not really.  I'm still in the phase of gathering requirements.
> I think that's about complete, so I may get it done later this week, but I
can't
> make promises.
> 
> Erik.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:08 PM
> > To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting
> > company
> >
> > Erik:
> > do you expect to implement a fix today or tomorrow?
> > Otherwise I will go ahead with 1.7.4 today.
> > Stefan
> >
> > On 05/07/2012 02:08 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> > > Ah, thanks, I had overlooked that.
> > >
> > > My conclusion is that we need a generic provision to allow
> > > postponing current price token laying.
> > >
> > > Setting this flag on will then be the default for companies that
> > > have a fixed start price.  For all others the default will be off.
> > >
> > > In a later stage we can add explicit configuration parameters to
> > > change the setting per game and/or per company(-type).
> > > I don't think we need these explicit configuration items now,
> > > because, if I haven't missed something, no non-default cases have
> > > yet surfaced amongst the games currently (being) implemented in Rails.
> > >
> > > Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik,
sorry have not seen your comment. Was that embedded in a previous mail 
from you? Can you forward me the test case to avoid for me going back as 
I am pretty busy currently.
I want to check why there is no rectangle returned. I guess that it 
occurs if the company has no route. Was that a hidden (thus having no 
impact on gameplay) error?
Thanks,
Stefan


On 05/08/2012 12:06 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Absent any further comments, I have now committed and pushed this fix into
> master.
> Erik.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:14 PM
>> To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2
>>
>> Stefan, below I'm returning one sub-issue back to you...
>
>>> 5. Click "done".
>>
>> And indeed an exception appears on the console:
>> Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.MapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle(MapPanel.java:113)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.setMapRelatedActions(ORUIManager.java:238)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.updateStatus(ORUIManager.java:1677)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.updateStatus(ORUIManager.java:1520)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.GameUIManager.updateUI(GameUIManager.java:562)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.GameUIManager.processAction(GameUIManager.java:329)
>> 	at rails.ui.swing.ORWindow.process(ORWindow.java:229)
>> 	at
>> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.processAction(ORUIManager.java:434)
>> 	at rails.ui.swing.ORPanel.actionPerformed(ORPanel.java:912)
>>
>> ORUIManager line 238 has:
>>
>>                          mapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle(
>>                                  NetworkVertex.getVertexMapCoverage(map,
>> companyGraph.vertexSet()));
>>
>> and the rectangle passed is null, which causes the exception.
>> As a quick fix I'm now checking the rectangle in
>> MapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle, and do nothing if it is null.
>> This fixes the immediate problem.
>>
>> I don't know if NetworkVertex.getVertexMapCoverage() returning a null
>> rectangle should be considered a bug.  I must leave that to Stefan.
>>
>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

If you open an attachment in outlook, it copies the attachment to a
temporary folder and then opens it using the 'open' command configured for
the mime type. So it should be possible to receive a saved game by email and
open the game directly with a correctly configured executable - but you
won't know where the temporary file is, so you can't open it manually, it
all has to happen automatically in one operation.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
________________________________________
From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...] 
Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2012 7:03 PM
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

I'm not enough a Windows expert to provide much help here.
I'm using Outlook 2010, from where you can start an application or script on
arrival of messages with certain characteristics, but there doesn't seem to
be an option to save any attachments first in some folder. So I don't think
I would be able to make your idea work in my environment.
Erik. 



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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Absent any further comments, I have now committed and pushed this fix into
master.
Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:14 PM
> To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug Report 1830 Rails1.7.2
> 
> Stefan, below I'm returning one sub-issue back to you...

> > 5. Click "done".
> 
> And indeed an exception appears on the console:
> Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.MapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle(MapPanel.java:113)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.setMapRelatedActions(ORUIManager.java:238)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.updateStatus(ORUIManager.java:1677)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.updateStatus(ORUIManager.java:1520)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.GameUIManager.updateUI(GameUIManager.java:562)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.GameUIManager.processAction(GameUIManager.java:329)
> 	at rails.ui.swing.ORWindow.process(ORWindow.java:229)
> 	at
> rails.ui.swing.ORUIManager.processAction(ORUIManager.java:434)
> 	at rails.ui.swing.ORPanel.actionPerformed(ORPanel.java:912)
> 
> ORUIManager line 238 has:
> 
>                         mapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle(
>                                 NetworkVertex.getVertexMapCoverage(map,
> companyGraph.vertexSet()));
> 
> and the rectangle passed is null, which causes the exception.
> As a quick fix I'm now checking the rectangle in
> MapPanel.scrollPaneShowRectangle, and do nothing if it is null.
> This fixes the immediate problem.
> 
> I don't know if NetworkVertex.getVertexMapCoverage() returning a null
> rectangle should be considered a bug.  I must leave that to Stefan.
> 

Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I'm not enough a Windows expert to provide much help here.

I'm using Outlook 2010, from where you can start an application or script on
arrival of messages with certain characteristics, but there doesn't seem to
be an option to save any attachments first in some folder. So I don't think
I would be able to make your idea work in my environment.

Erik.

 

From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:53 AM
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

Next best thing: can the rails save games be defined as a mime type within
windows that autolaunches and loads the game? May need a version of the
executable that doesn't present menu options etc because it knows that its
job is to load a save game - which means that creating it should be just
about the last step, only performed once all the other code is stable, but
it would come close to solving this problem.

 

Mike Bourke

Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
<http://www.campaignmastery.com/> 

Co-author, Assassin's Amulet  <http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com/>
http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

  _____  

From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...] 
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2012 4:56 AM
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

Anyhow, we cannot address external SMTP blocking from within Rails.  

Sending an email seems to be simple to do with JavaMail.  It can send mail
to a named SMTP host with optional authentication. Attachments can be done
as well.

 

Picking up incoming mail would be an entirely different matter;  I have
little hope to have Rails support that.

 

Erik.

 

 

From: Edward Rustin  <mailto:[mailto:ed...@we...]> [mailto:ed...@we...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:21 PM
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

SMTP would almost certainly be blocked from desktops.  

On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 16:00, Bob Probst wrote:

SMTP wouldn't be blocked but an external host IP might be.  You could point
it at a corporate SMTP relay - but that's probably a bigger breach of IT
policy than playing games at work.

 

Of course, you could also use your local corporate mail client if that
functionality were programmed and other than having the mail go through
corporate servers, it would be fine.

 

I don't use a local mail client so that option would not be of use to me.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
wrote:

Would such systems work behind my work's corporate firewall?

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> This is an idea I've already had in mind for a potential PBEM option.
>
>
>
> But I don't see why a dedicated SMTP server would be required.  I'm not
sure
> what kind of email interface is supported by Java, but I would try to use
> either the user's local email system, or his (or any) remote SMTP server.
> The former might not be portable, though.
>
>
>
> Erik.
>
>
>
> From: Bob Probst [mailto:bob...@gm...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:17 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications
>
>
>
> Provided that there's an available SMTP relay (I might be able to host one
-
> and there's plenty of them available for free albeit some for nefarious
> purposes), it would be convenient to add a "Notify by Email" option to a
> game.
>
>
>
> Each player's email address would have to be entered but once there, when
a
> player finished their move, they could notify the group/next player that
it
> was their turn.  the email could automatically contain the last set of
moves
> (as is the case with the copy buffer) and automatically add an appropriate
> subject line.  It could even attach the .rails file removing the need to
use
> dropbox or other file store.
>
>
>
> Just a thought, not a priority.
>
>

>
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

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_______________________________________________
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Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 

threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 

will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 

threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/

_______________________________________________

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Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[Bill R. <ro...@gm...>]

On 2012-05-08, at 12:33 , John David Galt wrote:

> On 2012-05-07 19:52, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> Next best thing: can the rails save games be defined as a mime type within windows that autolaunches and loads the game? May need a version of the executable that doesn’t present menu options etc because it knows that its job is to load a save game – which means that creating it should be just about the last step, only performed once all the other code is stable, but it would come close to solving this problem.
> 
> The activating end of this would be fairly easy to configure in Mozilla if the
> "run rails and load save game" combination can be performed by one command line.
> Of course you'd still need a mime type, but something along the lines of
> "x-application/rails" would do fine.

Rails supports savegames passed as command line arguments, though this is not exactly documented anywhere.

I have a shell script for each of my PBEM games that runs the correct version of rails with the most recent savegame from dropbox.  The (two-line) script I use won't work on a system without find, grep, and tail (i.e. some kind of *nix or MacOS), but I've included it in the case that it is useful to someone.  Obviously you will need to edit the script to point at the right paths.

#!/bin/bash
cd /Applications/Games/rails-1.7.3
java -jar ./rails-1.7.3.jar "`find ~rosgen/Dropbox/PBEM/1856 -maxdepth 1 | grep \.rails | tail -n 1`"

Bill

Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-07 19:52, Mike Bourke wrote:
> Next best thing: can the rails save games be defined as a mime type within windows that autolaunches and loads the game? May need a version of the executable that doesn’t present menu options etc because it knows that its job is to load a save game – which means that creating it should be just about the last step, only performed once all the other code is stable, but it would come close to solving this problem.

The activating end of this would be fairly easy to configure in Mozilla if the
"run rails and load save game" combination can be performed by one command line.
Of course you'd still need a mime type, but something along the lines of
"x-application/rails" would do fine.

Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

Next best thing: can the rails save games be defined as a mime type within
windows that autolaunches and loads the game? May need a version of the
executable that doesn't present menu options etc because it knows that its
job is to load a save game - which means that creating it should be just
about the last step, only performed once all the other code is stable, but
it would come close to solving this problem.

 

Mike Bourke

Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
<http://www.campaignmastery.com/> 

Co-author, Assassin's Amulet  <http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com/>
http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

  _____  

From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...] 
Sent: Friday, 4 May 2012 4:56 AM
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

Anyhow, we cannot address external SMTP blocking from within Rails.  

Sending an email seems to be simple to do with JavaMail.  It can send mail
to a named SMTP host with optional authentication. Attachments can be done
as well.

 

Picking up incoming mail would be an entirely different matter;  I have
little hope to have Rails support that.

 

Erik.

 

 

From: Edward Rustin [mailto:ed...@we...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:21 PM
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

SMTP would almost certainly be blocked from desktops.  

On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 16:00, Bob Probst wrote:

SMTP wouldn't be blocked but an external host IP might be.  You could point
it at a corporate SMTP relay - but that's probably a bigger breach of IT
policy than playing games at work.

 

Of course, you could also use your local corporate mail client if that
functionality were programmed and other than having the mail go through
corporate servers, it would be fine.

 

I don't use a local mail client so that option would not be of use to me.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
wrote:

Would such systems work behind my work's corporate firewall?

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> This is an idea I've already had in mind for a potential PBEM option.
>
>
>
> But I don't see why a dedicated SMTP server would be required.  I'm not
sure
> what kind of email interface is supported by Java, but I would try to use
> either the user's local email system, or his (or any) remote SMTP server.
> The former might not be portable, though.
>
>
>
> Erik.
>
>
>
> From: Bob Probst [mailto:bob...@gm...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:17 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications
>
>
>
> Provided that there's an available SMTP relay (I might be able to host one
-
> and there's plenty of them available for free albeit some for nefarious
> purposes), it would be convenient to add a "Notify by Email" option to a
> game.
>
>
>
> Each player's email address would have to be entered but once there, when
a
> player finished their move, they could notify the group/next player that
it
> was their turn.  the email could automatically contain the last set of
moves
> (as is the case with the copy buffer) and automatically add an appropriate
> subject line.  It could even attach the .rails file removing the need to
use
> dropbox or other file store.
>
>
>
> Just a thought, not a priority.
>
>

>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

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Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
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will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
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_______________________________________________
Rails-devel mailing list
Rai...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Live Security Virtual Conference

Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 

threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 

will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 

threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/

_______________________________________________

Rails-devel mailing list

Rai...@li...

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

 




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Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Anyhow, we cannot address external SMTP blocking from within Rails.  

Sending an email seems to be simple to do with JavaMail.  It can send mail to a named SMTP host with optional authentication. Attachments can be done as well.

 

Picking up incoming mail would be an entirely different matter;  I have little hope to have Rails support that.

 

Erik.

 

 

From: Edward Rustin [mailto:ed...@we...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:21 PM
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications

 

SMTP would almost certainly be blocked from desktops.  

On Thursday, 3 May 2012 at 16:00, Bob Probst wrote:

SMTP wouldn't be blocked but an external host IP might be.  You could point it at a corporate SMTP relay - but that's probably a bigger breach of IT policy than playing games at work.

 

Of course, you could also use your local corporate mail client if that functionality were programmed and other than having the mail go through corporate servers, it would be fine.

 

I don't use a local mail client so that option would not be of use to me.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:



Would such systems work behind my work's corporate firewall?

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> This is an idea I’ve already had in mind for a potential PBEM option.
>
>
>
> But I don’t see why a dedicated SMTP server would be required.  I’m not sure
> what kind of email interface is supported by Java, but I would try to use
> either the user’s local email system, or his (or any) remote SMTP server.
> The former might not be portable, though.
>
>
>
> Erik.
>
>
>
> From: Bob Probst [mailto:bob...@gm...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:17 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Enhancement Idea: Automated emails notifications
>
>
>
> Provided that there's an available SMTP relay (I might be able to host one -
> and there's plenty of them available for free albeit some for nefarious
> purposes), it would be convenient to add a "Notify by Email" option to a
> game.
>
>
>
> Each player's email address would have to be entered but once there, when a
> player finished their move, they could notify the group/next player that it
> was their turn.  the email could automatically contain the last set of moves
> (as is the case with the copy buffer) and automatically add an appropriate
> subject line.  It could even attach the .rails file removing the need to use
> dropbox or other file store.
>
>
>
> Just a thought, not a priority.
>
>

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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Stefan,

No, not really.  I'm still in the phase of gathering requirements.
I think that's about complete, so I may get it done later this week, but I
can't make promises.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:08 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company
> 
> Erik:
> do you expect to implement a fix today or tomorrow?
> Otherwise I will go ahead with 1.7.4 today.
> Stefan
> 
> On 05/07/2012 02:08 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> > Ah, thanks, I had overlooked that.
> >
> > My conclusion is that we need a generic provision to allow postponing
> > current price token laying.
> >
> > Setting this flag on will then be the default for companies that have
> > a fixed start price.  For all others the default will be off.
> >
> > In a later stage we can add explicit configuration parameters to
> > change the setting per game and/or per company(-type).
> > I don't think we need these explicit configuration items now, because,
> > if I haven't missed something, no non-default cases have yet surfaced
> > amongst the games currently (being) implemented in Rails.
> >
> > Erik.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> >>
> >> 1837's stock market has a separate par-price display next to it,
> >> because
> > only
> >> two companies are allowed to use each price.
> >>
> >>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik:
do you expect to implement a fix today or tomorrow?
Otherwise I will go ahead with 1.7.4 today.
Stefan

On 05/07/2012 02:08 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Ah, thanks, I had overlooked that.
>
> My conclusion is that we need a generic provision to allow postponing
> current price token laying.
>
> Setting this flag on will then be the default for companies that have a
> fixed start price.  For all others the default will be off.
>
> In a later stage we can add explicit configuration parameters to change the
> setting per game and/or per company(-type).
> I don't think we need these explicit configuration items now, because, if I
> haven't missed something, no non-default cases have yet surfaced amongst the
> games currently (being) implemented in Rails.
>
> Erik.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>>
>> 1837's stock market has a separate par-price display next to it, because
> only
>> two companies are allowed to use each price.
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
>> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
>> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats.
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Ah, thanks, I had overlooked that.

My conclusion is that we need a generic provision to allow postponing
current price token laying.  

Setting this flag on will then be the default for companies that have a
fixed start price.  For all others the default will be off.

In a later stage we can add explicit configuration parameters to change the
setting per game and/or per company(-type).
I don't think we need these explicit configuration items now, because, if I
haven't missed something, no non-default cases have yet surfaced amongst the
games currently (being) implemented in Rails.  

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> 
> 1837's stock market has a separate par-price display next to it, because
only
> two companies are allowed to use each price.
> 
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-06 12:30, Schnell, Volker wrote:
> Yes, but in 1835 at that time, when 50% Shares are sold for the first time.
> Volker
> 
> Am 06.05.2012 21:09, schrieb John David Galt:
>> On 2012-05-06 11:57, Schnell, Volker wrote:
>>> Hi John,
>>> in 1835 the base token is placed, as soon the company "operates" i.e. it
>>> is layed in the SDR.
>>> Volker
>> If the company is considered to "operate" in the SDR, why wouldn't it lay the
>> stock-market token then too?
> 

Pay attention, everybody.  Volker has just admitted that by "when it operates"
he really means the tokens are placed in the stock round.  In other words, no
change.  Just a language problem.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-06 15:27, Erik Vos wrote:
> On further checking I see, that in 1837 only the three merger companies have
> a fixed starting price. 
> 
> For the other companies, the start price can be chosen, but still is not to
> be indicated on the stock chart until floating time - which seems awkward to
> me: apparently you'll have to remember the price until that time.  Or lay
> the price token upside down initially.

1837's stock market has a separate par-price display next to it, because only
two companies are allowed to use each price.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

On further checking I see, that in 1837 only the three merger companies have
a fixed starting price. 

For the other companies, the start price can be chosen, but still is not to
be indicated on the stock chart until floating time - which seems awkward to
me: apparently you'll have to remember the price until that time.  Or lay
the price token upside down initially.

Anyway, a Rails implementation of 1837 is not really on the horizon, and
when it gets there, the stock chart will be special in many more respects.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...]
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 10:18 PM
> To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company
> 
> I had not yet received Stefan's earlier reaction when I gave mine, and
mine
> seems to have been overlooked since.
> 
> The quick and simple rule that I had inferred from looking into some rule
sets
> is, that if a company has a *fixed* starting price, the stock price token
is laid
> when the company floats.  This at least applies to 1825, 1835, and indeed
> 1837 (thanks John).  My question was if that rule holds for all such
games; so
> far is does.
> 
> The discussion now seems to have digressed to the question what happens
> with companies that do not have a fixed starting price, but that have both
a
> par and a market price.
> But that was not the issue at stake here, so I'll ignore that issue.
> 
> My proposal was and is:
> 
> > a) add a provision to show fixed start prices on the Stock Chart, to
> > be
> shown only
> > if a company hasn't yet floated,
> 
> (i.e. not in the form of a token, but just plain text)
> 
> > b) for fixed start price companies, postpone stock chart token laying
> until
> > floating time.
> >
> > If exceptions exist, we'll also need a new game parameter to define
> > the correct rule for each such game.
> 
> No exceptions seen so far.
> 
> Erik
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 9:46 PM
> > To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting
> > company
> >
> > I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to "his
> > version", Volker was quoting the official, actual, rules. You also
> > seem to be
> confusing
> > "only placing a token on the stock market when the company operates"
> > with "placing a token on the stock market when the company first
> > operates" -
> the
> > first is a misinterpretation, the second is correct for 1830.
> >
> > Mike Bourke
> > Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com Co-author,
> Assassin's
> > Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> > Virus Database (VPS): 120506-1, 07/05/2012 Tested on: 7/05/2012
> > 5:46:08 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
> > http://www.avast.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
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> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> > Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> > latest in malware
> threats.
> > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> 
> 
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I had not yet received Stefan's earlier reaction when I gave mine, and mine
seems to have been overlooked since.

The quick and simple rule that I had inferred from looking into some rule
sets is, that if a company has a *fixed* starting price, the stock price
token is laid when the company floats.  This at least applies to 1825, 1835,
and indeed 1837 (thanks John).  My question was if that rule holds for all
such games; so far is does.

The discussion now seems to have digressed to the question what happens with
companies that do not have a fixed starting price, but that have both a par
and a market price.
But that was not the issue at stake here, so I'll ignore that issue.

My proposal was and is:

> a) add a provision to show fixed start prices on the Stock Chart, to be
shown only
> if a company hasn't yet floated,

(i.e. not in the form of a token, but just plain text)

> b) for fixed start price companies, postpone stock chart token laying
until
> floating time.
> 
> If exceptions exist, we'll also need a new game parameter to define the
> correct rule for each such game.

No exceptions seen so far.

Erik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...]
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 9:46 PM
> To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company
> 
> I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to "his version",
> Volker was quoting the official, actual, rules. You also seem to be
confusing
> "only placing a token on the stock market when the company operates" with
> "placing a token on the stock market when the company first operates" -
the
> first is a misinterpretation, the second is correct for 1830.
> 
> Mike Bourke
> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com Co-author, Assassin's
> Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 120506-1, 07/05/2012 Tested on: 7/05/2012 5:46:08 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-06 12:46, Mike Bourke wrote:
> I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to "his version",

Changing to lay the token on the stock market when the company first operates
instead of during the stock round when it forms (which he has now clarified is
really what he meant).

> Volker was quoting the official, actual, rules. You also seem to be
> confusing "only placing a token on the stock market when the company
> operates" with "placing a token on the stock market when the company first
> operates" - the first is a misinterpretation, the second is correct for
> 1830.

Never has been, never will be.  In all games (except maybe 1835) the stock
market token goes down during a stock round, either when the president's share
is purchased (which is how it works in 1830) or when the company floats.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

I don't know what you are talking about when you refer to "his version",
Volker was quoting the official, actual, rules. You also seem to be
confusing "only placing a token on the stock market when the company
operates" with "placing a token on the stock market when the company first
operates" - the first is a misinterpretation, the second is correct for
1830.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com




---
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Tested on: 7/05/2012 5:46:08 AM
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http://www.avast.com

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Schnell, V. <vol...@ar...>]

Yes, but in 1835 at that time, when 50% Shares are sold for the first time.
Volker

Am 06.05.2012 21:09, schrieb John David Galt:
> On 2012-05-06 11:57, Schnell, Volker wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> in 1835 the base token is placed, as soon the company "operates" i.e. it
>> is layed in the SDR.
>> Volker
> If the company is considered to "operate" in the SDR, why wouldn't it lay the
> stock-market token then too?

-- 
Volker Schnell
email: vol...@ar...
homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-06 11:57, Schnell, Volker wrote:
> Hi John,
> in 1835 the base token is placed, as soon the company "operates" i.e. it 
> is layed in the SDR.
> Volker

If the company is considered to "operate" in the SDR, why wouldn't it lay the
stock-market token then too?

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Schnell, V. <vol...@ar...>]

Hi John,
in 1835 the base token is placed, as soon the company "operates" i.e. it 
is layed in the SDR.
Volker

Am 06.05.2012 20:41, schrieb John David Galt:
>> Volker Schnell wrote:
>>> from the Rules (first german, then english)
>>> 2.7.1 Sind von einer Gesellschaft mindestens 50% erstmalig verkauft worden, ist>>  die Gesellschaft "in Betrieb".
>>> 2.7.2 In dem Moment, in dem die Gesellschaft in Betrieb geht, erhält der
>>> Direktor den entsprechenden Besitzbogen und alle Marker der Gesellschaft.
>>> 2.7.3 Einer der Marker wird auf das gekennzeichnete Startposition der AG auf
>>> der Aktienkurstafel gelegt. Ist das Feld schon von anderen Markern belegt, wird
>>> er unter diese geschoben.
>>>
>>> english. [fixed spelling - JDG]
>>> 2.7.1. If 50% Shares of a company are sold for the first time, the company
>>> "operates"
>>> 2.7.2. At the time the company operates, the director receives the company
>>> sheet and all company-tokens.
>>> 2.7.3. One marker is laid at the marked Position of the company on the stock-
>>> table.  If the field is already occupied by other tokens, then the token is
>>> placed under the other tokens.
> Placing a company's stock market token only when it operates seems wrong,
> because normally the positions of the stock market tokens determine the order
> in which all the major companies will operate.
>
> Am I right in thinking this means that a company's home station also is laid
> when it first operates, and not when it floats?  This would be exactly opposite
> to both English versions of the rules (especially the first edition).  In those,
> a company's home station is placed on the map during the stock round as soon as
> 50% is purchased.  (The second edition made BA an exception.)  This will make a
> big difference in play -- especially in the case of HE, which often blocks other
> companies as soon as it is placed.
>
> I suggest that this behavior be made a setup option, because nobody I know is
> going to want to change to your version.
>
> Stefan Frey wrote:
>> And another PS: Does anybody now when in general is the stock market
>> token placed for other 18xx with par prices? I do not have time to
>> check that now, but I had guessed that it usually happens at the same
>> time that the par price is set (so after the president shares is bought).
> That's correct for 1830 and most games with a similar market, because you can
> sell shares to the bank pool right away, even if the company hasn't floated
> yet.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
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email: vol...@ar...
homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell

Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[Schnell, V. <vol...@ar...>]

Hi Stefan,
Lemmi's moderator handles this correctly, that's why i stumbled about 
this issue.
Volker

Am 06.05.2012 13:36, schrieb Stefan Frey:
> Volker:
> thanks for catching this.
>
> I have to admit that I did not know that rule by heart myself, I would 
> have guessed that the (stock market) token is layed as soon as the 
> president's share is available.
> (So in effect BY and SX price markets are on the stock chart from the 
> start of the game).
>
> Rails currently lays the token as soon as the president's share is 
> bought (so similar what I believe is correct for most 18xx), which 
> given the rules quoted is wrong.
>
> It seems that is not excessively hard to change that, but I want to 
> wait for Erik's opinion on this.
>
> I will delay the 1.7.4 release until this is fixed.
>
> Stefan
>
> PS: Volker do you know if Lemmi's moderator handles this correctly?
>
> And another PS: Does anybody now when in general is the stock market 
> token placed for other 18xx with par prices? I do not have time to
> check that now, but I had guessed that it usually happens at the same 
> time that the par price is set (so after the president shares is bought).
>
>
> On 05/06/2012 11:07 AM, Schnell, Volker wrote:
>> David, thanks for the hint.
>> here is the right one.
>>
>>
>> Am 06.05.2012 02:46, schrieb John David Galt:
>>> The save file you attached is from an 18EU game.
>>>
>>> On 2012-05-05 14:09, Schnell, Volker wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I found another Bug in 1835. Rails-Version 1.7.3
>>>> in the SDR 2 Shares of the Bayern were sold (92> 88). In the same
>>>> round but later the Sax was founded (50% sold shares).
>>>> in the following OR Sax operates before the Bayern. see attached
>>>> saved-file
>>>> Thats wrong.
>>>>
>>>> from the Rules (first german, then english)
>>>> 2.7.1 Sind von einer Gesellschaft mindestens 50% erstmalig verkauft
>>>> worden, ist die Gesellschaft "in Betrieb".
>>>> 2.7.2 In dem Moment, in dem die Gesellschaft in Betrieb geht, erhält
>>>> der Direktor den entsprechenden Besitzbogen und alle Marker der
>>>> Gesellschaft.
>>>> 2.7.3 Einer der Marker wird auf das gekennzeichnete Startposition der
>>>> AG auf der Aktienkurstafel gelegt. Ist das Feld schon von anderen
>>>> Markern belegt, wird er unter diese geschoben.
>>>>
>>>> english.
>>>> 2.7.1. if 50% Shares of a company are sold for the first time, the
>>>> company "operates"
>>>> 2.7.2. at the Time, the company operates, the director receives the
>>>> compony sheet and all company-token.
>>>> 2.7.3. One marker is layed at the marked Position of the company on
>>>> the stock-table. If the field is already occupied by other token,
>>>> then the token is placed under the other token.
>>>>
>>>> greetings
>>>>
>>>> volker
>>> If it happened in the first OR, I would agree that that is a bug.
>>> I've seen Sx correctly operate before By (once) if Sx floats in SR2.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
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>> Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in 
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>>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Bug in 1.7.3 1835, Token of a starting company

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-06 05:55, Mike Bourke wrote:
> In general, tokens are placed on the stock market chart only when sufficient
> shares are sold that the company can operate. Until then, the value remains
> the par value of the stock. One game's rules (I forget which, but one of
> those that does not have fixed par values) suggests placing the tokens on
> the stock market board upside down until the company launches.

The only game I know that does this, other than 1835, is 1837.

Playing this way definitely won't work for 1830 or any other game where you can
sell shares of a company that hasn't floated yet (and the price falls).