Thread: [Phpslash-devel] SF Issues
Brought to you by:
joestewart,
nhruby
From: nathan r. h. <na...@ds...> - 2001-11-15 15:11:49
|
In case y'all haven't noticed, phpGroupWare has decided to leave SourceForge for GNU's alternative offering, Savannah. In no way shape or form am I suggesting we move again; however, their statement and the recent FSFEurope article (and VA's decsion to go non-Free with the SourceForge codebase) have raised a few concerns with me, enough to make me nervous becasue I feel unprotected and the most likely method of SF shutting down will be for them to pull the plug one day with little or no warning. Yes, I realize I'm being a pessimist and nay-sayer but I doubt that VA Systems folk will want to drag out the issue if closing is a neccissity, as it'll just piss off a lot of people. this is one of those things where the quicker and cleaner you can do it, the better.. I think it might be prudent to have an emergency action plan in case VA does fold or attempts something "undue." Currently, my thought is to simply add into the Doc's, FAQ, README, and website an alternate URL is case of SourceForge meltdown. In addtion I'll be writing a script to download the nightly CVS tarball to a secure location, I'd like it if other could do something similar, to increase the chances of having a copy of CVS... perhaps the script will also grab the website and mysql databases the trackers if possible but I dunno.. What say you? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- nathan hruby / digital statement na...@ds... http://www.dstatement.com/ Public GPG key can be found at: http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
From: Joe S. <jo...@be...> - 2001-11-15 16:03:20
|
I've been mirroring the nightly tarballs some also. There is more to the story also. phpGroupWare is now a GNU project. So it would be natural for them to be hosted on GNU servers. Savannah development is announced to have been moved to phpGroupWare. They couldn't or wouldn't extend the 2.0 sf codebase to their needs. phpGroupWare already has most all the parts in place to perform the same functions as the SF software. I've been using debian-sf for some local project management. Mixed thoughts on it's use. In case of SF disappearing, the tracker db on sf currently has no way to be backed up and mirrored by users. So, that's the big gotcha right now. After the website stuff settles down, it should just be checked in the cvs under a different tree. This is how the savannah.gnu.org projects are setup. mysqldump to cvs daily as well. This would simplify the backup. Good discussion. Joe On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 10:11:50AM -0500, nathan r. hruby wrote: > In case y'all haven't noticed, phpGroupWare has decided to leave > SourceForge for GNU's alternative offering, Savannah. In no way shape or > form am I suggesting we move again; however, their statement and the > recent FSFEurope article (and VA's decsion to go non-Free with the > SourceForge codebase) have raised a few concerns with me, enough to make > me nervous becasue I feel unprotected and the most likely method of SF > shutting down will be for them to pull the plug one day with little or no > warning. Yes, I realize I'm being a pessimist and nay-sayer but I doubt > that VA Systems folk will want to drag out the issue if closing is a > neccissity, as it'll just piss off a lot of people. this is one of those > things where the quicker and cleaner you can do it, the better.. > > I think it might be prudent to have an emergency action plan in case VA > does fold or attempts something "undue." Currently, my thought is to > simply add into the Doc's, FAQ, README, and website an alternate URL is > case of SourceForge meltdown. In addtion I'll be writing a script to > download the nightly CVS tarball to a secure location, I'd like it if > other could do something similar, to increase the chances of having a copy > of CVS... perhaps the script will also grab the website and mysql > databases the trackers if possible but I dunno.. > > What say you? > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > nathan hruby / digital statement > na...@ds... > http://www.dstatement.com/ > > Public GPG key can be found at: > http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt > ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > |
From: nathan r. h. <na...@ds...> - 2001-11-15 16:20:26
|
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Joe Stewart wrote: > I've been mirroring the nightly tarballs some also. > Cool. I'm a slacker when it comes to backups. But after having recently rebuilt my work machine after it ate everything, I'm starting to drool over big tape drives :) (well, and the LVM patch.. ) > There is more to the story also. phpGroupWare is now a GNU project. So > it would be natural for them to be hosted on GNU servers. > True, and this is a highly visiable move for both GNU and phpGW. it good for them both and hepls move FSF / GNU into a better role of supporting their software, which has historiaclly been laoded on the shoulders of the developers. Savanah is a Good Thing, and for future projects I'll probably use it insead of SourceForge. But I think the phpGW's status as a full GNU app doesn't mitigate the overarching issues of SourceForge being a trophy site for VA Systems and that VA is looking like it's on the rocks (or will be soon). Do I mind the Sf is a trophy site? Hell NO! It works, it's fine, the service is free. I fear more the political backlash from extremeists who feel that what VA is doing is wrong will have a negative effect on VA and will push VA out of business. While I would like the SF codebase to remain open and free, the fact of the matter is that large businesses are running scared from the term "OpenSource" becasue they think its synonmus with "Dot.Bomb" The only way VA can survive is to turn to the dark sde somewhat. Granted this makes them a living contridiction of them self, but hey.. I think VA is getting tired of doing the doggy paddle, and hopefully they'll get thrown a life preserver before doing the dead man's float.. > Savannah development is announced to have been moved to phpGroupWare. > They couldn't or wouldn't extend the 2.0 sf codebase to their needs. > phpGroupWare already has most all the parts in place to perform the same > functions as the SF software. > That will be quite cool :) > I've been using debian-sf for some local project management. Mixed > thoughts on it's use. > I've poked around at the last free release of SourceForge, damn that shit is just frigin' ugly. BigDisk is the Rob Malda of the php world ;-) Well, maybe not that bad, but still know what's under the SF hood doesn't exactly give me *more* confidence. then again, tim Purdue (AFIK) is no longer part of SF, and has his own consilting company. > In case of SF disappearing, the tracker db on sf currently has no way to > be backed up and mirrored by users. So, that's the big gotcha right now. > Oh crap.. they took /export away. I forgot. I'm sure that they'll come up with something, at a minimum providing MySQL dumps of the trackers is needed if they shut down. > After the website stuff settles down, it should just be checked in the cvs > under a different tree. This is how the savannah.gnu.org projects are > setup. > Yes. > mysqldump to cvs daily as well. > > This would simplify the backup. > Yes. -n -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- nathan hruby / digital statement na...@ds... http://www.dstatement.com/ Public GPG key can be found at: http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
From: Joe S. <jo...@be...> - 2001-11-15 16:32:06
|
On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:20:26AM -0500, nathan r. hruby wrote: > > True, and this is a highly visiable move for both GNU and phpGW. it good > for them both and hepls move FSF / GNU into a better role of supporting > their software, which has historiaclly been laoded on the shoulders of the > developers. Savanah is a Good Thing, and for future projects I'll > probably use it insead of SourceForge. > Savannah doesn't have a bug tracker. go figure. It works for the debian-sf because they just use the very nice debian bug tracking system. > > I've poked around at the last free release of SourceForge, damn that shit > is just frigin' ugly. BigDisk is the Rob Malda of the php world ;-) > Well, maybe not that bad, but still know what's under the SF hood doesn't > exactly give me *more* confidence. then again, tim Purdue (AFIK) is no > longer part of SF, and has his own consilting company. > check out this thread: http://mail.freesoftware.fsf.org/pipermail/debian-sf-devel/2001-October/000008.html Joe |
From: nathan r. h. <na...@ds...> - 2001-11-15 16:44:56
|
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Joe Stewart wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:20:26AM -0500, nathan r. hruby wrote: > > > > True, and this is a highly visiable move for both GNU and phpGW. it good > > for them both and hepls move FSF / GNU into a better role of supporting > > their software, which has historiaclly been laoded on the shoulders of the > > developers. Savanah is a Good Thing, and for future projects I'll > > probably use it insead of SourceForge. > > > > Savannah doesn't have a bug tracker. go figure. It works for the > debian-sf because they just use the very nice debian bug tracking system. > I assume this'll be fixed at some point, as phpGW in their announement said that was one of their priorites :) > > > > I've poked around at the last free release of SourceForge, damn that shit > > is just frigin' ugly. BigDisk is the Rob Malda of the php world ;-) > > Well, maybe not that bad, but still know what's under the SF hood doesn't > > exactly give me *more* confidence. then again, tim Purdue (AFIK) is no > > longer part of SF, and has his own consilting company. > > > > check out this thread: > > http://mail.freesoftware.fsf.org/pipermail/debian-sf-devel/2001-October/000008.html > Hurm... Interesting. The SF install is really tricky (even the postgres dumps are wrong) and I can understand the managerial point of making it a pain to install to drum up business. Not letting the developers post patches, fixes or give advice is really odd though. For those who try to do it, can't and find they need help, go to the board and get no answer will drop it. Even to say "Look, we'd love to help you, but this is how we make money.. give us a call and for 10k we'll make it work for you for a year" is better than nothing. Perhaps the debian-sf folks should join forces with Savahnah. -n -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- nathan hruby / digital statement na...@ds... http://www.dstatement.com/ Public GPG key can be found at: http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
From: Joe S. <jo...@be...> - 2001-11-15 16:56:10
|
On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:44:58AM -0500, nathan r. hruby wrote: > > Perhaps the debian-sf folks should join forces with Savahnah. > They all work together, including the 2.6 based sf-genericinst guys. Supposedly all pointing towards CoopX. This could be your excuse to use debian :) The sourceforge deb package installs pretty smoothly most of the time. Warning: unless you want to play with your apache configs quite a bit install it on a dedicated machine. > -n > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > nathan hruby / digital statement > na...@ds... > http://www.dstatement.com/ > > Public GPG key can be found at: > http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt > ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > |
From: nathan r. h. <na...@ds...> - 2001-11-15 17:13:02
|
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Joe Stewart wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2001 at 11:44:58AM -0500, nathan r. hruby wrote: > > > > Perhaps the debian-sf folks should join forces with Savahnah. > > > > They all work together, including the 2.6 based sf-genericinst guys. > > Supposedly all pointing towards CoopX. > Ahh... I see the light. > This could be your excuse to use debian :) The sourceforge deb package > installs pretty smoothly most of the time. > Err.. There's a guy in our LUG, who like me is a RedHat kinda guy, who's been trying to install debian. He's a smart guy and a good sysadmin, and has been doing this for about 5-7 years (starting on SPARC). He's been posting his progess to the LUG list. Let's say that it hasn't been the shining example of ease of installation, for any of the machines he's tried. He's up to install number three now and it's still not just quite right. :) But yeah.. If I can scrape up a machine I'll probably play with debian at some point and try the debian-sf pkg. Right now at home I also need to get a wireless access point for my girlfriend so she can watch Buffy and do research and at the same time at work do a near enterprise class setup for a server (complate with unified logins for apache, samba, netatalk, unix -> Linux and Irix via NIS) so debian's on the back burner now, as I don't think that the SF packages will help me too much with that. I was planning on using phpGW as a HTTP front end for user files, so perhaps this will force my hand. :) Pesky students, why can't they pick up their renders with scp? > Warning: unless you want to play with your apache configs quite a bit > install it on a dedicated machine. > VHOST's baby! The power of the VHOST in apache cannot be under-rated. hell, I set up VHOSTS for single host machines just 'casue I don't have to muck with the default config any further than adding in the php modules :) -n -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- nathan hruby / digital statement na...@ds... http://www.dstatement.com/ Public GPG key can be found at: http://www.dstatement.com/nathan-gpg-key.txt ED54 9A5E 132D BD01 9103 EEF3 E1B9 4738 EC90 801B -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |