#179 after windows 10 creators update the presentation of verse on 2. monitor/beamer need 5 seconds

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I'm german and my english not so good, but I want tell over a problem.

Last week (before creators update) was all good and now (after the creators update) the presentation need circa 5 seconds before a vers or pre-chorus is on the 2. monitor or beamer. It isn't for chorus (also text) or pictures => there the text or the picture is promptly on second device.

I don't understand this. Have you a statement and solution?

[Anonymous]

addendum: in multi-monitor-preview isn't the problem, there all OK

[Anonymous]

I found the problem
=> when I format the text without contour, then it's OK (no waiting for next page) => the contour in textformat is the problem after windows creators update
=> and it is not by chorus, when the option "chorus highlight" is activ

[SvA]

Hallo,

was ist denn das "creators update" und wo hast du es her?
Welche Versionsangaben zeigt denn der Dialog "Über"?
Wie verhält es sich denn im Einzelmonitor Modus?
Tritt das Problem nur mit einem bestimmten Lied auf, oder mit jedem beliebigen?
Kannst du mir das Lied und die Präsentationseinstellungen (Dokumente\OpenSong\Settings\PresentSettings) zusenden, um zu versuchen dein Problem nachzustellen? Du kannst die Dateien hier anhängen, oder du klickst auf meinen Namen, oben links über dieser Antwort, dann oben rechts auf Send Message. Leider kannst du dort keine Dateien direkt anhängen, aber dort steht meine E-Mail Adresse, die du dann in dein E-Mail Programm kopieren kannst.

[Anonymous]

Hallo,

mit "creators update" ist die Windows 10 Version 1703 gemeint.
Ich benutze die OpenSong Version 2.1.2. und bis zum Windows Release Update funktionierte alles einwandfrei.
In den Einstellungen anbei habe ich bei "Standardstil" bei "Text" den Haken bei "Kontur" entfernt. Diese Funktion löst das Phänomen aus, also die 5 Sekunden Verzögerung beim Umschalten.
Modus ist dabei egal! Habe beide getestet! Benutze aber eigentlich nur Multi-Monitor.
Habe eine Intel-Grafikkarte und das Update hat auch den Grafiktreiber aktualisiert. Aber auch die Instatllation des alten Grafiktreibers war keine Problemlösung.
Es tritt bei jedem Lied (Text = "Vers") auf, außer halt bei Text = "Chorus" (kursive Darstellung in den Einstellungen angegeben).

Herzlichen Dank schon einmal für das Interesse an dem Problem.

PS: anbei die Einstellungen

[SvA]

Hallo,

vielen dank für die Infos und die Konfiguration. Ich habe sie mir angeschaut und darin nichts außergewöhnliches gefunden, was Probleme bereiten könnte. Ich habe sie auch verwendet, um das Verhalten von OpenSong damit auf meinem Rechner zu testen (Windows 8.1). Mit der herunterladbaren, offiziellen Version konnte ich keine Geschwindigkeits-Unterschiede zwischen Vers und Chorus feststellen. Ich habe dann mit einer aktuellen Entwicklerversion mit aktiviertem Profiling (Zeitprotokoll verschiedener Aufgaben) getestet, und auch da keinen Unterschied feststellen können.
Ich habe dann geschaut, ob ich einen Windows 10 Rechner aufs neueste Update hochheben könnte. Nachdem ich aber gelernt hatte, wie eindringlich Microsoft davon abrät, sich das Update zu besorgen, bevor Microsoft entschieden hat, dass der Rechner bereit ist für das Update (oder wohl eher das Update ausreichend ausgereift ist für den Rechner) und Window Update das Update selber hohlt, habe ich das bleiben lassen.

OpenSong behandelt ein Chorus nicht anders als irgend ein anderer Liedteil, außer dass die Schriftauszeichnung "Kursiv" umgeschaltet wird, wenn die Option "Refrain hervorheben" aktiviert ist. Ich schlage deshalb vor, dass du mal die Schrift für "Text" auf "Kursiv" setzt und dann schaust, ob sich das Zeitverhalten damit umdreht. In einem weiteren Test schlage ich vor, dass du mal eine andere Schriftart verwendest, um zu sehen, dass es nicht etwa die Schriftart ist, die Probleme macht.

Weiter wüsste ich im Moment nicht, was ich testen oder ausprobieren könnte, um deinem Problem auf die Spur zu kommen, bin aber offen für Vorschläge.

Etwas irritiert bin ich darüber, dass die Verzögerung in der Multi-Monitor-Vorschau anscheinend nicht auftritt. Entweder fällt das Prolem dor weniger auf, weil die Auflösung kleiner ist, oder das Problem ist irgendwo im Grafiksystem oder im Speicher-Management.

Die Tatsache, dass deaktivieren der Kontur das Problem aber entschärtf lässt auf ersteres schliessen. Es ist nämlich so, dass OpenSong den Text, je nach Einstellung unterschiedlich oft, mit unterschiedlicher Einstellung oder Position zeichnet: "nakt" - 1x; Schatten - 2x; Kontur - 9x; Kontur und Schatten: 18x

[SvA]

I would like to give a brief summary for all non-German speakers. You might have some idea or experience that will help to solve the issue.

After having installed the Windows 10 Creators Update (Version 1703) song parts other than Chorus render very slowly. In my tests and measurements with the latest officially released version, as well as with the most recent development version, I could not find any systematic timing differences.

I did not test on the Windows version that caused the problem, because Microsoft strongly advises against forcing the update befor Windows Update fetches the Update on its own account.

OpenSong's code treats all song parts equal, with the exception of toggling italics for the body font on Chorus if Highlight Chorus is enabled (which is true for the setup used).

In my oppinion, two possible causes are likely: graphics (hardware, driver or the windows graphics subsystem) and memory management. The fact that the problem does not occure in Preview Dual Screen could be die due a smaller drawing surface as well as a smaller memory siz eneeded. The fact that the problem goes awy with turning off Outline for the body font, however, seems to point to the graphics system, because that option highlihgts problems with font drawing, because OpenSong draws text multiple times depending on the setting: plain - 1x; shadow - 2x; outline - 9x; outline and shadow - 18x

[Anonymous]

HI I confirm this issue on two separate machines. I rolled back the W10 Update 1703 and the speed between slides restored. This only happens on word projection. Slides present ok, and navigation work at normal speed unless a render of words is called. Backgropund images also make no difference, Transition off or on makes no difference. Compatibilty mode for Opensong makes no difference. The pixel size on the second monitor makes no difference. HOpe this helps identifying the issue. Craig Rayner.

[Craig Rayner]

The anonymous post above was mine. If you have further questions then hopefully this will provide a link. I can confirm that removing borders removes speed issue, but creates vision issue. That is, without borders the words cannot be clearly seen.

[Anonymous]

in our case it minimize issue - not eliminates. There is still 2-3 seconds delay We really need someone to recompile it and fix the issue.

[Anonymous]

Confirmed, it has also solved my issue even if the words are not as clear as they were with the borders

[Anonymous]

HI DAVID FRANK LEWIS here. My experience has been that with WIN 10 & hdmi text with borders suffered from very slow transitions. However, since we swapped the PC for one with an Intel i5 processor the problem has gone away. Maybe this will help others.

[Anonymous]

The OP said compatibility mode didn't help. But did you try changing the High DPI scaling settings under the Compatibility tab (after right clicking on OpenSong / clicking on Properties) ? As shown in this pic:

https://winblogs.azureedge.net/win/2017/03/4-58dee24e8ee4a.jpg

Since the whole thing is related to these DPI scaling settings, it feels like one of these should help. (I'm experiencing the same issue, but only have access to the church laptop once a week to try :))

Edit - this definitely does not work.

[Anonymous]

Awesome software 0 but needs to be updated to run under W10 1703.
Can someonoe PLEASE take care of this bug and create new version to run under 1703? We all need that!
Thank you!

[Anonymous]

So according to the other thread, another temporary workaround is disabling smooth edges of fonts in Windows. This of course, affects the whole computer. This is obviously affecting a lot of people - any update on a proper fix? Is anyone even working on it?

[SvA]

What other thread are you reffering to? Could you please provide a link?

[Anonymous]

https://sourceforge.net/p/opensong/discussion/373378/thread/201fc940/?limit=25#c4e2/47ee/4918

[SvA]

Has anybody tried to recompile OpenSong with a concurrent version of Xojo and run it on an affected machine? Does it make any difference?

Does anybody run OpenSong on Windows 10 Version 1703 (with outline and shadow turned on) and is not affected by this bug?

Does italics make a big difference for anybody affected?

Please note:
There is no fix for this, as Opensong does nothing than draw text using standard functions for drawing text. With sufficient information (or just by chance) we might find a way to work around what likely is a bug in windows. So, please, provide us with more details. Also searching the web for other software with similar problems might help. Please report back if you find anything interesting.

[SvA]

Has anybody tried to recompile OpenSong with a concurrent version
of Xojo and run it on an affected machine? Does it make any difference?

Yes, I have. It fixes the problem.
So, is there someone out there, that would join the developpers and provide the compiled binaries?

[Anonymous]

Have just updated my own laptop to the creator's edition and, as expected, the problem started occurring. Doesn't require a second screen; happens with Single Screen mode too (not preview dual screen, presumably because it's tiny). No difference whether italic / non italic. No borders + shadows = very fast; no border but with shadow = tiny delay, no shadow but with border = huge delay.

No idea what recompiling with a current versino of Xojo means.

[Anonymous]

I also tried writing a few paragraphs of text into a Powerpoint slide, then emulating the idea of outline/shadow by duplicating the text box 10-20 multiple times, each 1px further apart. All ran instantly. Whatever OpenSong is doing, it's not the same as other programs like Powerpoint. So seems more likely to be an OpenSong glitch than Windows.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call it an "Opensong glitch." Microsoft coded both the OS and Powerpoint so they ought to run smoothly together. This is one of the frustrations I have with Windows. They don't make it easy for other software companies to make readily compatible programs. But Opensong has been working for me for 7 years now and it has only been with the latest MS Update that the delay began occurring on my computer. Very frustrating that Microsoft makes it so difficult to run software from other venders/sources. If anyone needs to fix this glitch it is Microsoft.

[Anonymous]

-Ticket Eröffner-:
Nach weiteren Recherchen und auch einem Eröffnen eines Tickets bei Microsoft gibt es nicht wirklich etwas Neues. Außer:
Die beschriebene Einstellung aus dem anderen erwähnten Ticket = ("Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\System" then click on "Advance system settings" then click settings on "Preformance") und dann deaktivieren der Option "Kanten der Bilschirmschriftarten verfeinern" (Smooth edges of sceen fonts) bringt erst mal den Erfolg, dass keine Verzögerung mehr entsteht. Das Bild finde ich aber mehr so scharf und deutlich.

[Anonymous]

This slow updating is happening on my laptop too, after updating to the Windows 10 Creators Update. Takes 4-8 seconds (depending on how much text is on the next slide) to move to the next slide, even with no border, no shadow, no fill for the text. There is little to no delay, however, when moving onto a blank slide.

Can also confirm that when I go to Advanced System Properties > Performance Options and disable smooth edges of screen fonts, the problem goes away and OpenSong is no longer slow. That seems to be a good workaround for the time being.

Yeah, this lag makes OpenSong basically unusable. This is pretty bad.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately we have exactly the same issue Opensong installed on DELL Optiplex 790 with 8Gb ram and second screen is sent to a Roland V40 switcher via vga. In dual screen preview mode, no delay at all. As soon as we send to dual screen, we have seconds of delay in verse change which renders the programme unusable. As the poster above did, if we disable smooth edge fonts in the advanced system settings it works, however the quality is poor. This is a real problem, please can you look into this as quickly as possible. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I guess opensong is dying. Here are a bunch of people who are users and trying to get help but here on open source there are no develpoers who can fix it. The problem with open soururce is that we are relying on the grace of someone who can fix things. Too bad as this software was great.
Comments of type "this is Microsoft problem" are useless since MS will not do anything at all about even their own bugs not mentioning opensource - they will laugh at it. So if there is someone who is a programmer and can fix this issue - it would be great to fix. Otherwise awesome and helpful software will be dead soon. Too bad so many of us put lots of work to create custom modules to the software we cannot use now...
Anyone can help???