Re: [Once development] new design process, Diary/notebook, Mapper

[Thomi R. <th...@th...>]

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Hi guys:

>
> Sounds good!  Should help in keeping up a shared understanding of the
> design, as long as it doesn't get too bureaucratic (but it probably
> won't, and I believe design and vision sharing are important in projects).
>

Yes, I absolutely agree. As far as I'm concerned, I believe that it is=20
important that *everyone* on the project knows exactly what we're creating=
=20
here. not only will it help people with motivation (once they realise what =
a=20
cool project this is), but it'll avoid confrontations later when there are=
=20
disagreements about what was decided etc. etc.

> Is this intended for the game design document only, or for collecting
> general ideas about implementation and other aspects of the development
> process too?
>

Because I'm involved with the game design, that's all I invented the proces=
s=20
for. If this process applies equally well to other areas, such as coding/
implementation, then I think it's a much better idea to keep it here than o=
n=20
the IRC channels. The main reason for this is because emails are much more=
=20
permenant than IRC. OK, so jade and brenda have been on the project recentl=
y,=20
and are supposedly logging everything, but (no offense to their creators/
hosters intended) I have reservations as to whether those logs will still b=
e=20
around in 2 years time...

> Btw, could we mention the things we are discussing in the subject, so
> that it is easier to find stuff in the mail archives later?
>

Sorry, my bad ;(


> The time and place of these entries could be provided automatically by
> the game (client), making it easier to keep them organized.
>
> Perhaps even automatically log some things, such as perhaps what foes
> the character killed, or what herbs he found in what place and at what
> time of the day and year, or whatever the players are interested in
> keeping track of (should be easy to add new logging triggers as
> requested, once the basic log system is in place.  Then just allow
> players to select the triggers they want to keep active from a list).
>

yes! brilliant!
I'm just waiting for a coder to tell me that it can't be done ;)

> Logs like these might be useful for administration or debugging purposes
> also, although it might be better to keep that a separate system..
> Still, if there's overlapping functionality it might be faster to
> implement just one system than two.
>
> As a somewhat far flying idea, how about being able to log different
> kinds of numerical values, and creating graphs of them?  E.g. a player
> could log character skill levels or network latency, and see how they
> change over time, or an admin could log number of online players, and
> see the graph floating or docked somewhere in the UI, or a developer
> could log number of objects in the game or the frame rate, and easily
> spot problems as they appear.
>

yeah..... while these would be very cool, I'm not so sure that they are a=20
requirement. Personally, I think a better approach would be to have some so=
rt=20
of web interface to the server. The main reason I think this is because I'm=
=20
afraid that the client will be too clumsy an interface for doing=20
administratve tasks; the client is being built to play games, not administe=
r=20
the server, right? anyway, as always, I value your opinions...

<snip section on maps>

> How about being able to trade parts of maps with other players?
> It seems this could add some interesting bussiness opportunities,
> especially for explorers.  The notes set by the map maker could also be
> transferred, allowing the maps to be pretty informative and useful.
>
I thought about this, but I'm worried about the online economy (see recent =
IRC=20
logs for a full discussion), and namely the effects of inflation. Every=20
single MMORPG I have come across has been bitten by rampant inflation. What=
 I=20
*don't* wan tto see happen is maps being traded on the street corner for 3=
=20
g.p. What's more, I think that players will get more out of a map if they d=
o=20
the hard work themselfs. besides, owning a map of the entire world would ma=
ke=20
it a very easy game... it'd almost be like cheating ;P

>
> Could the map simply show a trace of the players movement?  E.g. sample
> the position every in-game hour or day, and add a path point.  Shouldn't
> take up too much space.
>
I invisiage multiple methods of transport around the online world. from=20
gnomish zepplins (W3 anyone?) to ships, mages guilds (Morrowind?), and much=
=20
much more. I wanted to make it possible to map the permenant travel types.=
=20
Someone has done just this for morrowind right here:

http://www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/travelguide/maptravel/travelmap.gif


> How about being able to tell the game to automatically walk their
> character to one of the points?  (the character would start walking in a
> straight line (or possibly later by following roads), and the player
> could sit back and reorder the inventory or something..)  Although this
> is probably not the best way to do long distance traveling...
>

yeah, that's a possability...

> > One final (and important) note to add is that the maps should be based =
on
> > what the client "sees", Rather than what the server knows is there. This
> > is possibly one application that the client can fulfill quite safely. T=
he
> > reason for this is that the on line world as it is stored on the server
> > will change from month to month. A war torn area one month may be
> > peaceful the next. Where there was a great forrest, there's now a lot of
> > burnt tree stumps ;)
>
> Good point.  If trading maps is allowed, this could result in some extra
>   space requirements though, especially if the maps store things at
> treestump level..
>
> Do we want to use some kind of abstraction for these kinds of overview
> maps?  E.g. 1 x 1 km squares with some elevation and terrain type?
>
yes. I can understand that having a map without using some kind of abstract=
ion=20
would be painful, to say the least...

> It seems that there would be two different but useful scales of maps;
> in-door or town maps, displaying things at a 1 x 1 m resolution or so,
> and outdoor maps, at a 1 x 1 km resolution or so.
>

yes, agreed.

> The detailed maps could be slower to draw or something, so players would
> only activate that drawing where it is really needed.


Aye, absolutely.


Does anyone else have anything to say about this?
=2D --=20
Thomi Richards,
http://once.sourceforge.net/


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