Re: [Once development] new ideas, notes about design

[Thomas C. R. <th...@th...>]

Note: i think i may have posted this twice.. my emailer's playing up a
bit..

> Hello!

here we go again ;)

> 
> Well, if you think about it, IF this game will look like the 
> traditional, "easily understandable" RPGs, this might cause 2
> problems: 1. People, who ALREADY played these types of games will
> easily
>     adopt to it though, but they will quickly get bored of it, as
>     they have already played these types at least a 100 times.
> 2. For people, who have NOT YET played these types of games,
>     this game will still be hard to get used to ANYWAY, so it will
>     be no difference for them, if the game is totally different,
>     than the others, or the same as others.

true, true..
> 
> Conclusion: make it different, than other RPGs.
> 
One is already different from other RPG's. In so many ways, and most of
them are in caillan's and my heads (we have not yet documented it).
There is a fine line between keeping the base MMORPG format (a good
thing in my mind), but adding your own features, and completely
re-creating the wheel.

> I have been up on the PS boards for some time now, and what I see, is 
> that people are mostly like PlaneShift, because it has many original 
> ideas: no levelling for example (just to mention ONE). The game is 
> skill-based. So, as I see, people are very happy because of this, and 
> there are MANY people on the boards (even though in PS, you can only 
> walk around yet! - but the IDEAs gather many of them).
> I don't say: remove levelling! It can stay (it is good IMHO), I just 
> presented, how much does it count, when a game has original ideas.

Yes, I agree.

Tell you what, I'll arrange a meeting this weekend with caillan, and we
are going to completely redesign the skills (it was on the cards
anyway). If you have any cool ideas which would help us in redesigning
the skills as a whole (i.e.- ideas which would apply to all skills, not
just one skill), We'd love to hear them :-)

> 
> Another thought of mine: about species.
> Why make classes? As I saw many people (including me) don't really
> like classes. When talking about species, I think classes should be
> left out. So, don't make "Elven ranger" for example, just "Elf",
> "Dwarf", etc. Let the user choose his/her skills, that would be the
> best. If you really want to keep the class system, then specify
> ranger/smith/mage *independently* from species (again: ONLY, if you
> wish to keep classes), and also define, which class cannot be combined
> with wich species (dwarf ranger for example would be impossible). But
> don't hardcode species with classes - my thought.
> 

I think this depends on the type of audience you are aiming for. To my
mind, hardcore RPG players (the sort of people who play "pen and paper"
D&D's) are the ones who resent the class/species linking, because they
like to role play their character through the game, whereas casual
gamers don't seem to care as much. Point noted though, and I will change
the docs this weekend, promise.

> Another thought:
> An ABSOLUTE FOOLISHNESS in most RPGs' is the hit-point system. For 
> example, a level 1 fighter has 16 HP, while a level 10 fighter has 140
> 
> HP??? This is stupid. An experienced warrior in life won't be able to 
> take 10 TIMES MORE sword slashes, than a less-experienced one! He can 
> EVADE, or DEFEND himself waaay-better, of course (or tolerate more
> pain - *SEE LATER*). But experince doesn't mean, you get 10 more
> lifes!!! So I think, EVEN IF a player is on level 50, he should only
> have a LITTLE more hitpoints, than a level 1 player (of course WAAAY
> better skills, to compensate the difference).
> 
I agree. The problem is the formula we are using to calculate the hit
points at the moment. If you can come up with a better one, be my guest
:-) It needs to:

Take the 8 skill levels into account, and the 2 attack levels (att &
def) as well. The attack and defence levels need to increase the HPs
more than the other 8 levels do. So, i believe the formula we are using
at the moment is something akin to:

(skill1 + skill2... + skill8) / 8 + attack + defence = HP

Why do it this way? simply because fighting should affect your health
points more than fishing and crafting does :-)

> There was a solution in M.A.G.U.S (a Hungarian RPG) for this problem:
> You had 2 types of "hit-points":
> 1. Life points
> 2. Pain tolerance points (I couldn't translate better)
> 
we have something similar; HP and SP (Stamina Points). Stamina points
continually change, depending on how tired you are, how long you've been
going without food or water, etc. etc. etc.

> 
> About the magic system:
> > -> we take this idea, and completely redesign all the other skills
> > from scratch, to use a similar technique.
> > -> we take this idea and modify it to fit in with the rest of the
> > skills in the game, and perhaps modify the rest of the skills
> > slightly.-> we reject this idea.
> > 
> > any other options?
> 
> Well, I suppose IF ANY modifications are allowed, then they must be 
> applied NOW: even if it requires much work, or complete redesing. Now
> it is YET not too late. Later, huge changes will be impossible, so
> consider this well!
> 

agreed! Caillan and I meet almost every weekend to discuss the design
docs. I have one more week of college (filled with exams unfortunately),
and then a 3 week holiday. By the end of that holiday i plan to get the
design documents to their final stages of completion. So, if you want to
lend a hand, stick around! now's the time to do it!

> I can think about new ideas, but I think what I wrote above, and in my
> 
Please, share your ideas! 

Here's a list of what I plan to do to the design of once this weekend:

-> Make the skills more complex, and probably inter-related. (so fishing
adds special smithing options).
-> Do a bit more on the map, starting location, and a few other bits and
bobs.
-> Work out what I'm gonna change in the future. 

Also, when i finally get those damn utility scripts working, It'l make
life a lot easier, as we will be able to fight two virtual players, and
tweak the formula's :-)

thanks for the good ideas; keep it up!


-- 

Thomi Richards,
th...@th...