Re: [Obi-plan-branch] [Obi-relations] [Obi-role-branch] role clean up-> protocolapplication, natural process

[Smith, B. <phi...@bu...>]

At 11:40 AM 1/24/2008, you wrote:
>On Thursday 24 January 2008, Smith, Barry wrote:
> > At 06:38 AM 1/24/2008, Matthew Pocock wrote:
> > >On Wednesday 23 January 2008, Melanie Courtot wrote:
> > > > > At 07:31 PM 1/22/2008, Alan Ruttenberg wrote:
> > > > >>If the entity is a process in which an incision is made in the
> > > > >>animal, some tissue is cut and then sutured, and the animal is closed
> > > > >>up, we have a number of possibilities around what might have
> > > > >>motivated it ( or for which the process was "designed"). It could be
> > > > >>that it is a sham surgery, it could be that it is an unlearned
> > > > >>attempt to heal, it could be the cruel act of a sadist. These
> > > > >>descriptions feel like the process "plays some role" that is
> > > > >>essentially determined socially. So here there is a similarity.
> > > > >
> > > > > What motivated it, motivated it, independently of any description we
> > > > > assign to it later.
> > >
> > >The act is the same in each case. The plan realised is different. Is this
> > > not sufficient?
> >
> > Sufficient for some purposes (just as it is sufficient for some
> > purposes to identity an immune epitope with a set of ordered pairs of
> > molecules). But wrong.
> > The act realized by the parrot when it utters: "I promise to pay you
> > $5 tomorrow" is different from the act realized by me when I utter
> > this to realize the plan of making  a promise.
>
>Can you spell out for me which part of the activity the parrot undertook in
>uttering "I promise to pay you $5 tomorrow" is different to that undertaken
>when you utter the same phrase?

Just to start you off: In my case there are intentions to perform 
actions fulfilled the content of the phrase and to accept the 
obligations consequent on uttering the phrase.
(There are similar sorts of intentions involved e.g. in protocoll 
applications. If the protocoll requires that I feed the mouse with 
rice, and my brother, for a joke, leaves rice in the same room with 
the mouse, my brother is not performing a protocoll application.)
BS

> > >As a logical follow-on from this, does this also sudgest that roles should
> > >stick to things that happened, and the 'motiviational' roles should move
> > > into the plan?
> >
> > Can you clarify the question?
>
>Not sure I can untill we have a broader consensus on what is going on here.
>
>M
>
> > BS
> >
> > >Matthew