myhdl-list — Mailing list for discussions on MyHDL

Re: [myhdl-list] DSX1000 Open-source Delta-Sigma DAC IP Core (MyHDL)

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Günter Dannoritzer wrote:
> Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>However, I had a closer look and I have a serious problem
>>with the license. "Free for non-commercial use" suggests
>>that it is not free for commercial use.
>>
>>To start with, this wouldn't qualify as an "open source"
>>license, so it shouldn't be advertized as such.
>>
>>Secondly, I don't believe it's enforceable in practice. For
>>malicious users it won't therefore make a difference.
> 
> 
> I think it is just the fact that counts and some might at least feel bad
> for that they use it.
> 
> 
>>But what's worse, bona fide companies will simply avoid
>>looking at the info. They don't want to be exposed to
>>things that are not legally crystal-clear. And this
>>bad effect may extend to the whole project.
> 
> 
> I am not sure. I think if there is a really great project available, a
> company will take the time to talk about the issues.

Of course, and I'd love to see such "star IP" developed in MyHDL. But
there's no need to publish source code for that. Just publish a datasheet
and the conditions.

> I understand George's idea about handling out a different license if
> someone wants to use it for a commercial project. At the end he still
> can say, just use it.

I understand it too. I just believe it's a bad idea for projects for
which the source code is published. Otherwise, no problem.

> In turn forcing everybody to have to use the GPL license might also
> deter people from contributing to the project.

I didn't want to say that. What I want to say is that *if* you decide
to publish source code *then* please use an open source license.
It's just too confusing otherwise. Look at the present case: the Subject
mentions "open source", but the license really isn't. Companies
hate that kind of ambiguity, and I do too. Some of the most interesting
organizations have just learned to work with open-source solutions,
and we should be very careful here.

I want to make it very clear that I think that nobody should
feel any pressure to publish his source code.
I would encourage a data sheet section on myhdl.org where people
advertise their work under any conditions they want.

My proposal to "standardize" on the LGPL is something else - just
a practical matter. On sourceforge, you can use any OSI license you
want, but sometimes it seems the innovation is in inventing new license
schemes instead of in real work. Google Code thinks so too:

     http://code.google.com/hosting/faq.html#limitedlicenses

as does opencores.org:

    http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/opencores/mission

> Maybe there is also a different understanding what this new change to
> the web page should bring. My original understanding was that people can
> start projects, just similar to source forge or opencores. The projects
> and the copyright are owned by the respective developers.

Wait a moment here. Under his current conditions, George simply
wouldn't have been able to start a project on either sourceforge,
Google Code or opencores.org, as it's not an open source license.

On myhdl.org, I would be in favor of an open-source IP library
AND a datasheet section for non-open source solutions. So a
contributor to myhdl.org would have more options, not less.

Now, the general point you raise on expectations is very relevant
and I have many doubts myself. We should have an open discussion
about this before continuing.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] Tristate bus to external SRAM

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

> At some point I would like to take some time to think thorougly
> about tristates and inouts and come up with a satisfactory
> solution, hopefully based on user inputs and feedback.
> Currently, I'm focussed on getting toVHDL on track
> and right - which offers more than enough brain teasers :-)
>
>   
Hi Jan,

Looks like you've been on a roll with toVHDL! I'm looking forward to 
trying out 0.6dev3 with its signed support.

I'm planning a HD44780-based LCD interface for the growing MyHDL IP 
library. I think this is a necessary and useful addition with a lot of 
popular appeal. To achieve my design goals, I'll need some 
bidirectional/tristate support. How's that coming along? :-) Can I help 
somehow?

Thanks,
George

> Jan
>
>   

Re: [myhdl-list] DSX1000 Open-source Delta-Sigma DAC IP Core (MyHDL)

[<dan...@we...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:
[...]
> 
> However, I had a closer look and I have a serious problem
> with the license. "Free for non-commercial use" suggests
> that it is not free for commercial use.
> 
> To start with, this wouldn't qualify as an "open source"
> license, so it shouldn't be advertized as such.
> 
> Secondly, I don't believe it's enforceable in practice. For
> malicious users it won't therefore make a difference.

I think it is just the fact that counts and some might at least feel bad
for that they use it.

> But what's worse, bona fide companies will simply avoid
> looking at the info. They don't want to be exposed to
> things that are not legally crystal-clear. And this
> bad effect may extend to the whole project.

I am not sure. I think if there is a really great project available, a
company will take the time to talk about the issues.

I understand George's idea about handling out a different license if
someone wants to use it for a commercial project. At the end he still
can say, just use it.

In turn forcing everybody to have to use the GPL license might also
deter people from contributing to the project.

Maybe there is also a different understanding what this new change to
the web page should bring. My original understanding was that people can
start projects, just similar to source forge or opencores. The projects
and the copyright are owned by the respective developers.

Or should that be more like an open core library with common license and
no copyright. So everything should be put under the "ownership of MyHDL"?

Maybe a mix would be good?

There is one open core library that features some basic functions.
Something that is coordinated over the mailing list, by discussing about
the functions and then people contribute to it.

The second feature would be to allow people to contribute projects
whatever they would like. Something like what George did. Those projects
would be owned by the developers and they can decide what they want to
do with them?

Maybe I think too much in terms of opencores and just copy it over to MyHDL?

Guenter

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[<dan...@we...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:
[...]
>> Trac looks more like it is suited for one project group. I think the mix
>> of having different users that can participate in different projects
>> requires quite some tweaking of trac.
> 
> I'm not convinced this is what we need first. Trac seems to be a
> sourceforge done better, in other words, a development management
> system. But this is a general problem, well suited to large scale
> dedicated hosted solutions such as sourceforge itself, or Google Code
> (both with subversion support), or opencores.org.
> 
> I think what we need first is a content management system, well suited to
> create great documentation rapidly, and distribute releases by the
> good old method of tar files.
> 

I see what you are saying and I agree, with a small community as it is
now, there is no need to have a full fledged project management system.
That just adds to the administrative overhead and also can create a lot
of junk.

Now what features do you see that a content management system would add,
that cannot be done with the docuwiki as it is now?


Guenter

Re: [myhdl-list] DSX1000 Open-source Delta-Sigma DAC IP Core (MyHDL)

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> George Pantazopoulos wrote:
>   
>> Hey all,
>>
>> As I get back to business on my PhoenixSID project, I've decided to
>> release some useful components, starting with an open-source Delta-Sigma
>> audio DAC IP core (A DAC on your CPLD/FPGA for 'free').
>>     
>
> As I told you before, great work, George.
>
>   
Thanks!

> However, I had a closer look and I have a serious problem
> with the license. "Free for non-commercial use" suggests
> that it is not free for commercial use.
>
> To start with, this wouldn't qualify as an "open source"
> license, so it shouldn't be advertized as such.
>
> Secondly, I don't believe it's enforceable in practice. For
> malicious users it won't therefore make a difference.
> But what's worse, bona fide companies will simply avoid
> looking at the info. They don't want to be exposed to
> things that are not legally crystal-clear. And this
> bad effect may extend to the whole project.
>
>   

> There was a time when such considerations were also valid
> for open-source licenses, such as the GPL. However, by now
> many great companies have learned to integrate open-source
> projects in their products and profit from it.
>
> I want commercial users as much as other ones. In fact,
> I'll judge success or failure of the MyHDL project by its
> commercial relevance. Consequently, I wouldn't want to
> do anything to deter commercial users from using MyHDL.
>
> Now that we are considering an open-source IP library, these
> issues become relevant. As a minimum, any project should use an
> open-source compliant license. I'd prefer to keep it more strict,
> clear and simple, and simply require the LGPL.
>
> Jan
>
>   
Hi Jan, you raise some great points and I too want wide adoption.

     I didn't put a lot of thought into the license and am open to 
changing it. I don't mind opening it up for free commercial use as well. 
How would the LGPL license work in terms of hardware IP cores?

Thanks,
George

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[Tom D. <TD...@di...>]

Jan,

I am OK with the overhead.

I will have to get installed what you need to run the site, I doubt that 
should be too difficult.

Glad to contribute to a great project.

Tom





On Friday 17 November 2006 15:11, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> Tom Dillon wrote:
> > Jan,
> >
> > If you choose option 3, I would be willing to host the site on our
> > servers and install whatever you need to run your current site (as long
> > as it is available and runs on Linux).
>
> Very generous, Tom, I accept! (I hope you're OK with the overhead
> to some of your resources that this may generate!)
>
> The feedback on this was clear so I have already registered
> the myhdl.org domain in the mean time.
>
> Jan

Re: [myhdl-list] DSX1000 Open-source Delta-Sigma DAC IP Core (MyHDL)

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

George Pantazopoulos wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> As I get back to business on my PhoenixSID project, I've decided to
> release some useful components, starting with an open-source Delta-Sigma
> audio DAC IP core (A DAC on your CPLD/FPGA for 'free').

As I told you before, great work, George.

However, I had a closer look and I have a serious problem
with the license. "Free for non-commercial use" suggests
that it is not free for commercial use.

To start with, this wouldn't qualify as an "open source"
license, so it shouldn't be advertized as such.

Secondly, I don't believe it's enforceable in practice. For
malicious users it won't therefore make a difference.
But what's worse, bona fide companies will simply avoid
looking at the info. They don't want to be exposed to
things that are not legally crystal-clear. And this
bad effect may extend to the whole project.

There was a time when such considerations were also valid
for open-source licenses, such as the GPL. However, by now
many great companies have learned to integrate open-source
projects in their products and profit from it.

I want commercial users as much as other ones. In fact,
I'll judge success or failure of the MyHDL project by its
commercial relevance. Consequently, I wouldn't want to
do anything to deter commercial users from using MyHDL.

Now that we are considering an open-source IP library, these
issues become relevant. As a minimum, any project should use an
open-source compliant license. I'd prefer to keep it more strict,
clear and simple, and simply require the LGPL.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Günter Dannoritzer wrote:
> George Pantazopoulos wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>Trac looks very interesting in that it supports svn and the ticket 
>>system, and is also a wiki. How does the wiki part compare to docuwiki? 
>>Are there any nice docuwiki features we'd have to give up?
> 
> 
> I haven't done too much with docuwiki. I think the wiki syntax is pretty
> much the same. From the first sight it looks like that docuwiki has a
> nicer interface with the menu at the left side.

That was my personal contribution to the dokuwiki project :-) By now
there are many other templates, several with sidebars that you could use
to change the dokuwiki look instantaneously.

> Though I wonder whether
> that can be done with trac too.
> 
> Trac looks more like it is suited for one project group. I think the mix
> of having different users that can participate in different projects
> requires quite some tweaking of trac.

I'm not convinced this is what we need first. Trac seems to be a
sourceforge done better, in other words, a development management
system. But this is a general problem, well suited to large scale
dedicated hosted solutions such as sourceforge itself, or Google Code
(both with subversion support), or opencores.org.

I think what we need first is a content management system, well suited to
create great documentation rapidly, and distribute releases by the
good old method of tar files.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Tom Dillon wrote:
> Jan,
> 
> If you choose option 3, I would be willing to host the site on our servers and 
> install whatever you need to run your current site (as long as it is 
> available and runs on Linux).

Very generous, Tom, I accept! (I hope you're OK with the overhead
to some of your resources that this may generate!)

The feedback on this was clear so I have already registered
the myhdl.org domain in the mean time.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

> I also don't like how much "me too" has gathered in that community.
> First it was only on the mailing lists. Now it comes that far that
> people write bug reports the type of "plz send mp3 vhdl code".
>   
Haha, I see exactly what you mean. Yeah, we don't do that here!

George


------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [oc] 8255 vhdl code
Date: 	Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:57:39 +0100 (CET)
From: 	d8f...@ya...
Reply-To: 	Discussion list about free open source IP cores 
<co...@op...>
To: 	bal...@re..., co...@op...



i need vhdl code for 8255, please send me, thanks!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
balaji_gawalwad@r...<balaji_gawalwad@r...> 
To: 
Date: Fri Apr 23 08:09:11 CEST 2004 
Subject: [oc] 8255 vhdl code 

> please send me 8255 vhdl code 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: tuhuallite@h... 
> To: vikramsingh@s..., cores@o... 
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 03:34:55 -0100 
> Subject: Re: [oc] 8255 vhdl code 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: vikramsingh@s... 
> > To: cores@o... 
> > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:05:26 -0100 
> > Subject: [oc] 8255 vhdl code 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > can someone tell m ewhere can i find VHDL code for intel 
> 8255 
> > > i need to simulate it and synthesise on fpga 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[<dan...@we...>]

George Pantazopoulos wrote:
[...]
> 
> Trac looks very interesting in that it supports svn and the ticket 
> system, and is also a wiki. How does the wiki part compare to docuwiki? 
> Are there any nice docuwiki features we'd have to give up?

I haven't done too much with docuwiki. I think the wiki syntax is pretty
much the same. From the first sight it looks like that docuwiki has a
nicer interface with the menu at the left side. Though I wonder whether
that can be done with trac too.

Trac looks more like it is suited for one project group. I think the mix
of having different users that can participate in different projects
requires quite some tweaking of trac.

Looking through the trac users page I found an interesting project that
seems to be the umbrella that I mentioned: www.kforgeproject.com.

Guenter

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

>> 3) create a new site, e.g. myhdl.org
>>     
>
> I like that option too.
>
> I have been working with trac recently http://trac.edgewall.org/, it has
> a web interface for svn, ticket system and wiki. Now the focus on that
> software is more single project type. It would be good if there is
> something like an umbrella to that, that has the features like
> sourceforge or opencores, listing the projects, categorizing them, etc.
>
> Guenter
>
>   
I'd love to have subversion support. That's what I use here at home and 
I love it. Besides what I've published so far, I have my own personal IP 
library and it's in the form of a subversion tree. Some of the modules 
depend on others, and I'm still working out the best way to deal with 
that, but it's working fairly well as it is.

Trac looks very interesting in that it supports svn and the ticket 
system, and is also a wiki. How does the wiki part compare to docuwiki? 
Are there any nice docuwiki features we'd have to give up?

Thanks,
George


>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[<dan...@we...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> 
> 2) publish MyHDL IP on opencores.org
> 
> Pro: We may create visibility and goodwill with open source IP
> developers. The infrastructure is ready to use, and is tuned to
> IP distribution.
> 
> Con: I don't really like the interface :-) It would be more
> difficult to highlight MyHDL's specific capabilities. The
> way to present the IP is quite strict, and we cannot really
> influence that.

I agree, seems like they did everything on their own and they are
reluctant to changes. There are some nice features though, like
highlighting on the front page which project got updated recently.

I also don't like how much "me too" has gathered in that community.
First it was only on the mailing lists. Now it comes that far that
people write bug reports the type of "plz send mp3 vhdl code".

> 
> 3) create a new site, e.g. myhdl.org

I like that option too.

I have been working with trac recently http://trac.edgewall.org/, it has
a web interface for svn, ticket system and wiki. Now the focus on that
software is more single project type. It would be good if there is
something like an umbrella to that, that has the features like
sourceforge or opencores, listing the projects, categorizing them, etc.

Guenter

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

>
> 2) publish MyHDL IP on opencores.org
>
> Pro: We may create visibility and goodwill with open source IP
> developers. The infrastructure is ready to use, and is tuned to
> IP distribution.
>
> Con: I don't really like the interface :-) It would be more
> difficult to highlight MyHDL's specific capabilities. The
> way to present the IP is quite strict, and we cannot really
> influence that.
>
> 3) create a new site, e.g. myhdl.org
>
> Pro: We have a "neutral" but MyHDL-dedicated site that people
> may be more willing to contribute to, while still having a lot
> of flexibility. We can investigate and choose new options for hosting
> and content management.
>
> Con: It may take some time to decide on the options and to
> set things up.
>
> Note: in this case I would still like to own the domain name,
> and I would be willing to pay for the hosting costs and to
> (co)manage the site.
>
>
>
>   

I like option 3 the best. At the same time, I have a bunch of links out 
there to the current site and I'd prefer some kind of redirection to 
happen for a good while. I still like docuwiki a great deal.

Also, I don't see a problem with taking selected IP cores from myhdl.org 
and creating opencores.org projects on their site.

Thanks,
George
http://www.gammaburst.net

Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[<ni...@gm...>]

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Re: [myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[Tom D. <TD...@di...>]

Jan,

If you choose option 3, I would be willing to host the site on our servers and 
install whatever you need to run your current site (as long as it is 
available and runs on Linux).

Tom


On Thursday 16 November 2006 15:00, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> Hi all:
>
> An open-source MyHDL IP library would probably be a great
> boost to the project. You may have noticed that George is
> making a start with this:
>
> http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/projects:dsx1000
> http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos:projects:o
>ss_ip_cores:lfsr_sid
>
> So it's a good time to reflect on this a little, more specifically
> on what would be the best way to set this up.
>
> I can think of 3 possibilities:
>
> 1) simply use the wiki on the existing site myhdl.jandecaluwe.com
>
> Pro: we can simply continue to work as we do now
>
> Con: we want to attract IP donations from as many people as possible.
> A site linked to my personal name may not be the right way to do
> this. In fact, it may have been an obstacle in the past to other
> types of contributions.
>
> 2) publish MyHDL IP on opencores.org
>
> Pro: We may create visibility and goodwill with open source IP
> developers. The infrastructure is ready to use, and is tuned to
> IP distribution.
>
> Con: I don't really like the interface :-) It would be more
> difficult to highlight MyHDL's specific capabilities. The
> way to present the IP is quite strict, and we cannot really
> influence that.
>
> 3) create a new site, e.g. myhdl.org
>
> Pro: We have a "neutral" but MyHDL-dedicated site that people
> may be more willing to contribute to, while still having a lot
> of flexibility. We can investigate and choose new options for hosting
> and content management.
>
> Con: It may take some time to decide on the options and to
> set things up.
>
> Note: in this case I would still like to own the domain name,
> and I would be willing to pay for the hosting costs and to
> (co)manage the site.
>
>
>
> What do you think?

[myhdl-list] Reflections on a MyHDL IP library

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Hi all:

An open-source MyHDL IP library would probably be a great
boost to the project. You may have noticed that George is
making a start with this:

http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/projects:dsx1000
http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos:projects:oss_ip_cores:lfsr_sid

So it's a good time to reflect on this a little, more specifically
on what would be the best way to set this up.

I can think of 3 possibilities:

1) simply use the wiki on the existing site myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Pro: we can simply continue to work as we do now

Con: we want to attract IP donations from as many people as possible.
A site linked to my personal name may not be the right way to do
this. In fact, it may have been an obstacle in the past to other
types of contributions.

2) publish MyHDL IP on opencores.org

Pro: We may create visibility and goodwill with open source IP
developers. The infrastructure is ready to use, and is tuned to
IP distribution.

Con: I don't really like the interface :-) It would be more
difficult to highlight MyHDL's specific capabilities. The
way to present the IP is quite strict, and we cannot really
influence that.

3) create a new site, e.g. myhdl.org

Pro: We have a "neutral" but MyHDL-dedicated site that people
may be more willing to contribute to, while still having a lot
of flexibility. We can investigate and choose new options for hosting
and content management.

Con: It may take some time to decide on the options and to
set things up.

Note: in this case I would still like to own the domain name,
and I would be willing to pay for the hosting costs and to
(co)manage the site.



What do you think?


-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL graphic logo - work in progress

[<dan...@we...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> George Pantazopoulos wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>>    
>>     I'm in the process of creating a logo that puts a friendly face on 
>> MyHDL and I could use some constructive feedback. I'm really a fan of 
>> this project and it's time we gave it some teeth! ;-)
>>
>> See here (bottom of my page):
>> http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos#myhdl_logo_work_in_progress
> 
> I have zero talent for graphical design, so I'm reluctant to comment  :-)

I am also no talented in graphics design, just want to throw in a link
about another Python snake.

http://cvs.wxwidgets.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/wxWidgets/wxPython/samples/pydocview/splash.png?rev=1.1

This one comes from wxPython and is a splash screen for a sample
application.

Another Python related logo I ran across the other day is Pyphant:

http://www.fmf.uni-freiburg.de/service/Servicegruppen/sg_wissinfo/Software/Pyphant/index_html/2006-07-13.8579500997/image


Guenter

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL graphic logo - work in progress

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

George Pantazopoulos wrote:
> Hey guys,
>    
>     I'm in the process of creating a logo that puts a friendly face on 
> MyHDL and I could use some constructive feedback. I'm really a fan of 
> this project and it's time we gave it some teeth! ;-)
> 
> See here (bottom of my page):
> http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos#myhdl_logo_work_in_progress

I have zero talent for graphical design, so I'm reluctant to comment  :-)

I like the idea of the snake and the chip but probably a more
"abstracted" design is better for a logo. And perhaps a chip package
is more recognizable than a die (it shouldn't resemble a bug though :-))
The new python logo has such an abstract snake, although I don't particularly
think it's a very strong logo.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

[myhdl-list] DSX1000 Open-source Delta-Sigma DAC IP Core (MyHDL)

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

Hey all,

As I get back to business on my PhoenixSID project, I've decided to
release some useful components, starting with an open-source Delta-Sigma
audio DAC IP core (A DAC on your CPLD/FPGA for 'free').

This could come in real handy in case you guys are itchin' to do some
hardware projects... 8-) If you want some help with that, let me know!

http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos

Feedback welcome.

Rock on,
George
http://www.gammaburst.net

Re: [myhdl-list] Conversion to VHDL - what's new document

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

George Pantazopoulos wrote:
>>I have finalized a first version of a what's new
>>document for MyHDL 0.6, about VHDL conversion:
>>
>>     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:whatsnew:0.6
>>
>>Most features can be tried with 0.6dev2, available from the
>>develpment snapshots page. The development status is here:
>>
>>     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:todo:0.6
>>
>>Feedback welcome. Especially if there's something you don't
>>like about it, I'd like to hear it now!
>>
> 
> 
> Nice work, Jan! This is exciting news for me because someone wants a VHDL
> version of my PhoenixSID core. Now they don't have to convert it by hand
> like they wanted to (ouch!) ;-)

Such projects validate the idea to position MyHDL as an IP development
platform, with both Verilog and VHDL output from a single MyHDL source.

> I think doing a VHDL version of the PhoenixSID core would be a good
> real-world test for your VHDL conversion, and can provide some excellent
> feedback.

Definitely.

> The only problem is timing. It's probably going to be a week or two before
> I can really put it to the test.

No problem, there's still a lot of development to do. There may be a new
development release in the mean time. My goal is to have the 0.6 release
ready before the end of the year, though.

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

Re: [myhdl-list] Conversion to VHDL - what's new document

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

> I have finalized a first version of a what's new
> document for MyHDL 0.6, about VHDL conversion:
>
>      http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:whatsnew:0.6
>
> Most features can be tried with 0.6dev2, available from the
> develpment snapshots page. The development status is here:
>
>      http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:todo:0.6
>
> Feedback welcome. Especially if there's something you don't
> like about it, I'd like to hear it now!
>

Nice work, Jan! This is exciting news for me because someone wants a VHDL
version of my PhoenixSID core. Now they don't have to convert it by hand
like they wanted to (ouch!) ;-)

I think doing a VHDL version of the PhoenixSID core would be a good
real-world test for your VHDL conversion, and can provide some excellent
feedback.

The only problem is timing. It's probably going to be a week or two befor=
e
I can really put it to the test.

On the bright side, I don't have to do it all at once. Unlike before, I'l=
l
be doing it in pieces using test driven development. This also comes at a
good time since the unit test support (ASCII Timing Spec) in MyHDL Booste=
r
is almost ready to try out on a real design and will make unit testing a
lot more fun this time around (which was the main bottleneck for me early
on).

Kudos,
George


--=20
George Pantazopoulos
http://www.gammaburst.net

[myhdl-list] Conversion to VHDL - what's new document

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Hello:

I have finalized a first version of a what's new
document for MyHDL 0.6, about VHDL conversion:

     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:whatsnew:0.6

Most features can be tried with 0.6dev2, available from the
develpment snapshots page. The development status is here:

     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/dev:todo:0.6

Feedback welcome. Especially if there's something you don't
like about it, I'd like to hear it now!

Regards,

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com

[myhdl-list] MyHDL graphic logo - work in progress

[George P. <ge...@ga...>]

Hey guys,
   
    I'm in the process of creating a logo that puts a friendly face on 
MyHDL and I could use some constructive feedback. I'm really a fan of 
this project and it's time we gave it some teeth! ;-)

See here (bottom of my page):
http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos#myhdl_logo_work_in_progress

Kudos,
George
http://www.gammaburst.net

Re: [myhdl-list] difficulty using itertools with MyHDL

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

Jan Decaluwe wrote:

> However, I'm really not sure that the interaction of this
> with the MyHDL scheduler works meaningfully. Normally the
> scheduler should decide when a MyHDL generator is run, and
> this seems to inferere with that. I'll have to experiment
> with itertools.

Ok, I'll start with the conclusion. itertools shouldn't be
used to manipulate MyHDL generators. The results are meaningless.

The reason is the following. When using the MyHDL simulator, there
is an implicit contract about (MyHDL) generator usage: don't
run them yourself (by calling their 'next') method, but let the
Simulator do that. Of course this is Python and I don't see how
this could be enforced. But the results are basically meaningless.

When using itertools in the way discussed, that's exactly what
happens under the hood - itertool object methods such as 'next'
run the underlying generators themselves.

No need for despair though. The MyHDL scheduler, combined with
coding techniques, should be able to support the required behavior
correctly, and probably in an easier way.

Here's an example. Consider this generator:

def gen(msg, d=1, n=3):
     for i in range(n):
         yield delay(d)
         print "  %s: %s" % (now(), msg)
     yield delay(1)

It prints out a message a number of times after a delay. Now
let's a play a game of ping-pong using itertools. We set
up the sequence as follows:

seq = itertools.izip(gen("ping", 1), gen("pong", 1))

and simulate this generator:

def test(seq):
     while seq:
         yield seq.next()

The result is:

   1: ping
   1: pong
   2: ping
   2: pong
   3: ping
   3: pong

Seems OK. But now let's try this:

seq = itertools.izip(gen("ping", 1), gen("pong", 4))

We give a much larger delay to "pong", and we would expect a
number of pings first. But we get:

   1: ping
   1: pong
   2: ping
   2: pong
   3: ping
   3: pong

No difference. Clearly not OK. The reason is that both generators
are incorrectly forced to run both as soon as the fastest one
triggers. Not good.

What to do? Well, one thing we can do is use the MyHDL simulator's
ability to schedule generators dynamically. If we simply simulate:

def test2():
     yield gen("ping", 1), gen("pong", 1)

we get:

   1: pong
   1: ping
   2: pong
   2: ping
   3: pong
   3: ping

as before. But when we now do:

def test2():
     yield gen("ping", 1), gen("pong", 4)

we get:

   1: ping
   2: ping
   3: ping
   4: pong
   8: pong
   12: pong

as expected.

There's more to it, but this is probably enough food for thought for
one post. More info can be found in the manual under
"bus-functional procedures".

Jan

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
     From Python to silicon:
     http://myhdl.jandecaluwe.com