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From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-14 11:07:31
|
Slightly off-topic, where do people like to put there tests (unit tests) in a python package directory structure? Using the example in the Python documents: python_pkg/ setup.py sound/ Top-level package __init__.py Initialize the sound package formats/ Subpackage for file format conversions __init__.py wavread.py wavwrite.py ... effects/ Subpackage for sound effects __init__.py echo.py surround.py reverse.py ... filters/ Subpackage for filters __init__.py equalizer.py ... Would you have one test folder in python_pkg/ or sound/ with all the tests. Or do you have module specific tests with the modules. Or a combination. In general, I suppose this is project specific. Some projects don't benefit from a package/module organization. But there are some technical constraints, e.g. if the test access as a package or individual modules. I usually end up with something like: python_pkg/ setup.py sound/ __init__.py formats/ __init__.py wavread.py wavwrite.py test_wav.py ... effects/ __init__.py echo.py surround.py reverse.py test_echo.py test_surround.py ... filters/ __init__.py equalizer.py ... test/ test_sound.py test_echo.py I have top-level, system tests, and module tests. Regards, Chris |
From: Bob C. <fl...@gm...> - 2012-03-14 04:08:02
|
On 03/13/2012 02:19 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: > On 03/13/2012 02:07 AM, Bob Cunningham wrote: > >> From my perspective as an HDL newbie (but a 30+ year engineering >> veteran otherwise), major feature development in MyHDL appears to >> have stalled, and Migen provides important capabilities MyHDL either >> lacks or can implement only with cumbersome and fragile kluges or >> work-arounds. (At least, that's what they look like to me, with my >> newbie eyes and brain.) > Could you please provide a list of those important capabilities > that MyHDL lacks in your opinion? I must admit I set MyHDL aside a few months ago after having daunting problems getting my 'simple' systems to work (mainly trying to glue together components from Open Cores). I had trouble writing useful MyHDL, and I found that one of my 'glue' problems, a Wishbone interface, had a simpler solution (from my perspective) in Migen. It could have been a unique or special case, I don't know enough yet to tell: I haven't solved all my other problems with this project. Another project idea, a dataflow signal processor for a 'flying pixel' camera, had me spending all my initial design time working on the interface between the dataflow stages (simple in software, harder in hardware) rather than on the content of each stage. Though I haven't implemented anything yet, it seems to me that Migen may make such interfaces easier. However, the sum of my difficulties showed me that I lacked the perspective and depth needed to make proper use of MyHDL, so I'm taking some time to extend my hardware skills, to design some circuits and boards. Back to schematic capture, device specs, board layout, and using an o'scope and logic analyzer. I understand using gates (bits), and I understand using chips (interfaces). It's the stuff in between that I'm having problems with. From my limited perspective, it seems to me that Migen does particularly well with interfaces, and the distinct separation between sequential and combinatorial logic seems to fit my current thought processes. I have no idea how far I can go with Migen compared to MyHDL. But the initial learning curve, with the goal of making my Spartan 3E board do fun and useful things, for the moment seems to favor Migen over MyHDL. But I am well aware that situation may not persist as my knowledge and experience grow. I have no intention of abandoning MyHDL: I closely monitor this list, and I periodically review the MyHDL documentation (especially the examples) to see if my comprehension has grown. Perhaps Migen makes FPGA development feel more like building with Legos: It makes it easy(er) to create parts and click them together. I suspect MyHDL may more like a machine shop: More skill is required to make use of it, but there may be no limit to what can be built, such as a Lego factory. Migen feels more newbie-friendly, while MyHDL may be more attractive to battle-weary V*HDL veterans. Migen is FPGA-centric, while MyHDL is fully ASIC-capable. Migen sometimes implements features inelegantly, while MyHDL excludes inelegant features. Practicality vs purity. High-level abstractions vs low-level power. Bottom line, I suspect both tools have their place, and share enough common premises that it is a mistake to view one as competing with or detracting from the other: Both agree the V*HDLs have limitations, both agree Python is a great tool for implementing HDLs. Each chooses a different approach, provides differing capabilities, targets a slightly different domain, and may attract different groups of users, all of which appears to me to be more complimentary than competitive. I don't see how there can be any need to push Migen and MyHDL apart: I think they should stand back-to-back and show the V*HDLs better ways to fill FPGAs. More like siblings who occasionally argue, than any kind of enemy. -BobC |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 12:55:56
|
On 3/13/2012 7:32 AM, Bob Cunningham wrote: > On 03/12/2012 08:14 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: >> On 3/12/12 8:07 PM, Bob Cunningham wrote: >>> Sébastien/Migen has to be doing something right: It got Jan back on this list! Yay!!! >> You don't realize it but you are being a complete *ASS* with that statement. > > I am very aware that Jan took time away from the list under difficult personal circumstances, and my thoughts and best wishes have been with him every time I read this list. > > I'm saying I've missed Jan's presence here. Aside from occasional comments like the above, Chris has done a great job carrying the torch and keeping this list highly responsive. But nothing can replace the presence of MyHDL's creator and guiding light. I also find that Jan has a great way of providing context for his technical answers, which means a lot to me as a beginner, where 'why' often matters more to me than the details of 'what' and 'how'. > I completely agree, Jan D. can't be replaced and his knowledge and leadership is essential. I let my emotions direct my comments a little too much, I am sorry for the name calling. I could have made my point more elegantly without the attack. Lets get back to the technical issues and building great things :) Regards, Chris |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 12:46:58
|
On 3/13/2012 7:32 AM, Bob Cunningham wrote: > On 03/12/2012 08:14 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: >> On 3/12/12 8:07 PM, Bob Cunningham wrote: >>> Sébastien/Migen has to be doing something right: It got Jan back on this list! Yay!!! >> You don't realize it but you are being a complete *ASS* with that statement. > > I am very aware that Jan took time away from the list under difficult personal circumstances, and my thoughts and best wishes have been with him every time I read this list. > > I'm saying I've missed Jan's presence here. Aside from occasional comments like the above, Chris has done a great job carrying the torch and keeping this list highly responsive. But nothing can replace the presence of MyHDL's creator and guiding light. I also find that Jan has a great way of providing context for his technical answers, which means a lot to me as a beginner, where 'why' often matters more to me than the details of 'what' and 'how'. > > I'm amazed Chris finds that my simple joy at seeing Jan's posts makes me an "ass". > > Back at you, buddy. > > > -BobC > Your comment wasn't a simple, glad to see Jan is back or concern for individuals. You stated, you were happy that Migen has stirred the pot. It seemed very selfish how I read it. Regards, Chris |
From: Bob C. <fl...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 12:32:34
|
On 03/12/2012 08:14 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: > On 3/12/12 8:07 PM, Bob Cunningham wrote: >> Sébastien/Migen has to be doing something right: It got Jan back on this list! Yay!!! > You don't realize it but you are being a complete *ASS* with that statement. I am very aware that Jan took time away from the list under difficult personal circumstances, and my thoughts and best wishes have been with him every time I read this list. I'm saying I've missed Jan's presence here. Aside from occasional comments like the above, Chris has done a great job carrying the torch and keeping this list highly responsive. But nothing can replace the presence of MyHDL's creator and guiding light. I also find that Jan has a great way of providing context for his technical answers, which means a lot to me as a beginner, where 'why' often matters more to me than the details of 'what' and 'how'. I'm amazed Chris finds that my simple joy at seeing Jan's posts makes me an "ass". Back at you, buddy. -BobC |
From: Christopher L. <loz...@fr...> - 2012-03-13 11:59:20
|
On 3/13/12 5:19 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: > I think this should be obvious to anyone who takes the > trouble of reading the (relevant parts of) the Migen > manual. However, if there are less experienced MyHDL-ers > who would like to hear a detailed assessment on > why I say this, I just keep one eye on this mailing list. I would love to hear the philosophical differences between the two approaches. I would love to buy a copy of Jan's book. Great way to pay him for all of his work on this project. Plus I need it. It would be really great to know what is shared between the two libraries, and what is different. I just want a one page description. I do not want to read through all the old emails. I do not want to read the migen manual. I just want an introductory description that both parties, or at least several intelligent individuals, agree to as to what is shared and what is different. Then if I choose to, I can figure out which library to explore further. In the zope world, it is only recently that I found such a document for zope2, bluebream, zope 4, grok and Pyramid. It was hugely helpful. Something like that is needed here. -- Regards Christopher Lozinski Check out my iPhone apps TextFaster and EmailFaster http://textfaster.com Expect a paradigm shift. http://MyHDL.org |
From: Jan D. <ja...@ja...> - 2012-03-13 10:19:11
|
On 03/12/2012 11:24 PM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq wrote: > On 03/12/2012 10:44 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: >> As for a Migen/MyHDL merger, stop insulting our intelligence here, >> we are engineers. It is your good right to think the event-driven >> paradigm is the wrong choice. But of course you and I know damn >> well that the paradigm choice is the fundamental design decision >> behind an HDL. If you make a fundamentally different decision, >> than*that* is the reason why a "merge" is not possible, not >> our intransigence. > > Oh. You lack imagination. Probably, but not a sense of aesthetics I hope. If you say in the Migen manual that Migen "differs from MyHDL in fundamental ways" (and on this you are absolutely right), it is quite obvious that a "merger" would feel ugly, awkward and confusing. I don't intend to create a new SystemVerilog. Let me add that "differs" is even too weak. Migen goes fundamentally against the essence of what MyHDL wants to be and its most relevant features and innovations. I think this should be obvious to anyone who takes the trouble of reading the (relevant parts of) the Migen manual. However, if there are less experienced MyHDL-ers who would like to hear a detailed assessment on why I say this, I will do so as an educational exercise in what HDL-based design is about (in my book). Jan -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com |
From: Jan D. <ja...@ja...> - 2012-03-13 09:20:04
|
On 03/13/2012 02:07 AM, Bob Cunningham wrote: > From my perspective as an HDL newbie (but a 30+ year engineering > veteran otherwise), major feature development in MyHDL appears to > have stalled, and Migen provides important capabilities MyHDL either > lacks or can implement only with cumbersome and fragile kluges or > work-arounds. (At least, that's what they look like to me, with my > newbie eyes and brain.) Could you please provide a list of those important capabilities that MyHDL lacks in your opinion? -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com |
From: Wesley N. <we...@sk...> - 2012-03-13 08:32:46
|
Hi Guys, This is a project that I am trying to get going, the most active fork is the one Chris linked: https://github.com/wnew/hdl_devel But Ill hope to push it to the master at https://github.com/casper-astro/hdl_devel soon. Here is a brief overview for anyone who is interested: We are using simulation and verification functionality that MyHDL provides thought Python, to model hardware designs. We are creating highly parameterised verilog cores and wrapping them with a layer of Python. These serve as the building blocks for designs, each block providing a simulation model and glue logic in Python. This is all brought together by the framework which will implement functionality such as automatic bus management and also manage clock domains. Ultimately a block diagram based GUI will be used to create designs. The aim is to be able to support any vendor and provide the designer with a "one-click" compile solution. Regards Wes On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Christopher Felton <chr...@gm...>wrote: > On 3/12/12 10:16 PM, Karl Kaiser wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I thought this may be interesting for this list: > > > > https://casper.berkeley.edu/wiki/MyHDL_toolflow > > > > Enjoy, > > Karl > > > > > Thanks for the post Karl. There has been some development efforts by > different Casper contributors started, > > https://github.com/wnew/hdl_devel > > There are a couple active development branches I lost track which one is > the most active (github fork view will some info). > > Regards, > Chris > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d > _______________________________________________ > myhdl-list mailing list > myh...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/myhdl-list > |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 04:22:05
|
On 3/12/12 10:16 PM, Karl Kaiser wrote: > Dear all, > > I thought this may be interesting for this list: > > https://casper.berkeley.edu/wiki/MyHDL_toolflow > > Enjoy, > Karl > > Thanks for the post Karl. There has been some development efforts by different Casper contributors started, https://github.com/wnew/hdl_devel There are a couple active development branches I lost track which one is the most active (github fork view will some info). Regards, Chris |
From: Karl K. <kk...@be...> - 2012-03-13 04:14:28
|
Dear all, I thought this may be interesting for this list: https://casper.berkeley.edu/wiki/MyHDL_toolflow Enjoy, Karl |
From: Tom D. <td...@di...> - 2012-03-13 03:23:23
|
On 03/12/2012 09:23 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: > It is completely an individuals right to branch/start a new project. > This is reasonable and happens frequently in the open-source world. But > I think it is rude to post to the branched project advertising, "look at > my project". While I was not offended by an off topic posting, clearly it is not appropriate to post about something other than MyHDL on the MyHDL mailing list. If I am interested in other projects, it is not to hard to let google find them for me. |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 03:20:11
|
On 3/12/12 5:24 PM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq wrote: > On 03/12/2012 10:44 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: >> As for a Migen/MyHDL merger, stop insulting our intelligence here, >> we are engineers. It is your good right to think the event-driven >> paradigm is the wrong choice. But of course you and I know damn >> well that the paradigm choice is the fundamental design decision >> behind an HDL. If you make a fundamentally different decision, >> than*that* is the reason why a "merge" is not possible, not >> our intransigence. > > Oh. You lack imagination. > Your rhetoric doesn't match your actions. Regards, Chris |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 03:15:04
|
On 3/12/12 8:07 PM, Bob Cunningham wrote: > On 03/12/2012 02:53 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: >> On 03/12/2012 10:23 PM, Thomas Heller wrote: >>> Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: >>>> I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is >>>> doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny >>>> communities. >>> +1 from me too. >>> >>> Thomas >>> >> What do you both mean? Obviously Migen "fractures" >> the community. Also, obviously they think they are making >> progress. Do you want to hear about it or not? > > From my perspective as an HDL newbie (but a 30+ year engineering veteran otherwise), major feature development in MyHDL appears to have stalled, and Migen provides important capabilities MyHDL either lacks or can implement only with cumbersome and fragile kluges or work-arounds. (At least, that's what they look like to me, with my newbie eyes and brain.) > There are some reasons for this. One, not many people are willing or able to contribute. Two, things happen; people have babies (no sleep I get) and other events happen in peoples lives that can stall a project. MyHDL has no intent of stopping (sorry if I am speaking for others). I believe MyHDL would be more than happy to have people contribute. Sebastien's case is well documented in this mailing list. I don't think it was an unfair handling. It is very easy for outsiders to come and ask for new features (there is a similar thread on scipy-dev). To use a project but not to give back and constantly ask for the latest buzz word feature, it can be taxing on the developers. I am guilty of this as well, I have used MyHDL extensively and I haven't given back a whole lot. I would like to discuss these "fragile kluges" or work arounds some more. The best I recall (I haven't reread the mailing-list) there are enhancements people would like but no "fragile" kludge. > MyHDL is more powerful overall, but Migen has attacked some specific problems is was designed to solve. Problems, IIRC, that were prompted by perceived weaknesses in MyHDL. As I understand it, Migen started as a rejected patch to MyHDL that was forced to find a life of its own. > The rejected patch has been discussed. The idea wasn't rejected but the contempt of the process that had been established. It isn't about a rejected patch it is about philosophical differences. Constructive conversations about the process could be useful but no more about the rejected *broken* patch. I think the process is fair, efficient, and required to make a successful project. > I believe Sébastien continues to post here not to diminish MyHDL or its use in any way, but instead to show at least one way to more easily do things that are difficult in MyHDL. If you look at his many non-Migen posts, you will see Sébastien has proven himself to be a very capable contributor to this list. > Sorry but I totally disagree. Again, look back to the old posts. He is not interested in the technical discussions as he tries to claim. As you state, you have 30+ years as an Engineer. Technical conversations can be long and in depth and don't end with one party exclaiming "you are just ...". > My personal hope is that MyHDL and Migen will evolve toward one another, and eventually find ways to inter-operate, share features, or even merge capabilities. I fully expect MyHDL may one day make Migen obsolete, but that day does not seem to be coming any time soon. > This is where I get confused. Why is the burden on the MyHDL developers (Jan) to add the features and have the quality that people are use to with this project. What is it about the development process that people object with that they would rather see a separate project created? > Until the parties involved agree to work together toward shared goals, it may be best for Migen to start its own list. When Sébastien gets his list going, he should be permitted to post sign-up instructions here. > > However, I hope a separate list won't be necessary: When Sébastien has referred to his own Migen posts in other forums (such as MilkyMist), he has referred people to *this* *list*. If anything, he has actively worked to increase MyHDL awareness, not to diminish it, or compete with it, or fracture it. From this side it just doesn't seem like that. Some links to these conversations ... seeing is believing? I don't see how responding to a question on the MyHDL mailing-list with "you should checkout migen" before any other responses is not deliberate: fracturing, diminishing, and competing. > > To clear the air, perhaps we could have a Migen-MyHDL shoot-out, where Sébastien posts some of what Migen does best, and the MyHDL pros can show us how best to do it in MyHDL. The posts should be in the form of modules that can be integrated into other projects (MyHDL or Verilog or VHDL) for testing and comparison. I know it would prove to be extremely educational for me, and may serve us all to better understand the underlying issues. > Who has the time. And what does it prove, I simply have the opinion that it is rude to advertise and self promote on a project you branched from. This is where this sucks, if Migen decided to branch for whatever reason, I don't care. It is their right to try something different, do it their way. Nothing wrong with branching and starting a new project. I wish them the best, go conquer the world. But I don't think the projects have similar goals. And instead of making things personal and dragging this out it is best Migen goes on its own and stops exploiting this group. It might not be fair for me to make such a statement, Jan has built this project/group and others have contributed as well, but that is my opinion. > Sébastien/Migen has to be doing something right: It got Jan back on this list! Yay!!! You don't realize it but you are being a complete *ASS* with that statement. > > > -BobC > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 02:23:44
|
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Thomas Heller <th...@ct...> wrote: > Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: >> I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is >> doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny >> communities. > > +1 from me too. > > Thomas I am baffled by these comments. Not that I disagree; in fact I totally agree. I hate to see the community fractured! But why I am baffled is that there were no *voiced* objections a couple months ago when the fraction was occurring. I think Jan D. has done a tremendous job putting together MyHDL and has setup very fair and reasonable directions for proposing enhancements and submitting patches. Sebastien decided he did not want to be part of a community that has modeled group development after other successful projects, e.g. Python itself. It is completely an individuals right to branch/start a new project. This is reasonable and happens frequently in the open-source world. But I think it is rude to post to the branched project advertising, "look at my project". Regards, Chris |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 02:07:03
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On 3/12/12 9:44 AM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq wrote: > On 03/12/2012 03:42 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: >> Sure, there are many things "closely" related. If Mentor or Cadence >> were advertising their latest offerings here, I don't think anyone would >> object to calling it spam. > > This software is just commercial and proprietary offerings about which > you have no way to discuss. Migen is an open source project. This makes > a lot of difference to me. Other open-source projects I am familiar with don't post releases announcements to the other groups. Or offer "their" tools as solutions to technical questions / discussions. The python-scientific dev group doesn't post to octave dev. The scilab dev doesn't post to the scientific-python, etc. Even though, these groups have similar initiatives; they want to proliferate the open-source scientific/numerical computing options. They don't self promote on each others "communication channels". >> So yes, it is spam it has nothing to do with MyHDL. It is different if >> projects that MyHDL interfaces/uses (Icarus, Python, pypy, etc) or >> projects that build off MyHDL post releases. This is not the case, you >> are simply exploiting this group for your own self interest. > > ...which is, in this case, discussing and building the best open source > Python-based hardware description language and tools. I won't go after > you if you "spam" our communication channels about the latest MyHDL > features; in fact, if this brings about fruitful technical discussion, > it would be welcome. I'd also be welcoming a Migen/MyHDL merger (no need > to duplicate efforts) - but you rejected even the most simple patches > from me - not my problem. > > Sébastien > If the simplest of patches don't work they should be rejected. You keep stating that it was simple but overlook the fact that you couldn't get it correct. I don't believe you are sincerely interested in "fruitful" technical discussions. The past discussions you have shied away from and/or resorted to name calling or some other off hand remark to avoid the objective technical discussions. Chris |
From: Bob C. <fl...@gm...> - 2012-03-13 01:07:52
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On 03/12/2012 02:53 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: > On 03/12/2012 10:23 PM, Thomas Heller wrote: >> Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: >>> I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is >>> doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny >>> communities. >> +1 from me too. >> >> Thomas >> > What do you both mean? Obviously Migen "fractures" > the community. Also, obviously they think they are making > progress. Do you want to hear about it or not? From my perspective as an HDL newbie (but a 30+ year engineering veteran otherwise), major feature development in MyHDL appears to have stalled, and Migen provides important capabilities MyHDL either lacks or can implement only with cumbersome and fragile kluges or work-arounds. (At least, that's what they look like to me, with my newbie eyes and brain.) MyHDL is more powerful overall, but Migen has attacked some specific problems is was designed to solve. Problems, IIRC, that were prompted by perceived weaknesses in MyHDL. As I understand it, Migen started as a rejected patch to MyHDL that was forced to find a life of its own. I believe Sébastien continues to post here not to diminish MyHDL or its use in any way, but instead to show at least one way to more easily do things that are difficult in MyHDL. If you look at his many non-Migen posts, you will see Sébastien has proven himself to be a very capable contributor to this list. My personal hope is that MyHDL and Migen will evolve toward one another, and eventually find ways to inter-operate, share features, or even merge capabilities. I fully expect MyHDL may one day make Migen obsolete, but that day does not seem to be coming any time soon. Until the parties involved agree to work together toward shared goals, it may be best for Migen to start its own list. When Sébastien gets his list going, he should be permitted to post sign-up instructions here. However, I hope a separate list won't be necessary: When Sébastien has referred to his own Migen posts in other forums (such as MilkyMist), he has referred people to *this* *list*. If anything, he has actively worked to increase MyHDL awareness, not to diminish it, or compete with it, or fracture it. To clear the air, perhaps we could have a Migen-MyHDL shoot-out, where Sébastien posts some of what Migen does best, and the MyHDL pros can show us how best to do it in MyHDL. The posts should be in the form of modules that can be integrated into other projects (MyHDL or Verilog or VHDL) for testing and comparison. I know it would prove to be extremely educational for me, and may serve us all to better understand the underlying issues. Sébastien/Migen has to be doing something right: It got Jan back on this list! Yay!!! -BobC |
From: Sébastien B. <seb...@mi...> - 2012-03-12 22:30:51
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On 03/12/2012 10:44 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote: > As for a Migen/MyHDL merger, stop insulting our intelligence here, > we are engineers. It is your good right to think the event-driven > paradigm is the wrong choice. But of course you and I know damn > well that the paradigm choice is the fundamental design decision > behind an HDL. If you make a fundamentally different decision, > than*that* is the reason why a "merge" is not possible, not > our intransigence. Oh. You lack imagination. |
From: Jan D. <ja...@ja...> - 2012-03-12 22:20:31
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On 03/12/2012 03:44 PM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq wrote: > features; in fact, if this brings about fruitful technical discussion, > it would be welcome. I'd also be welcoming a Migen/MyHDL merger (no need > to duplicate efforts) - but you rejected even the most simple patches > from me - not my problem. For the record: It was me who rejected those patches, not Chris. I did what every reasonable project manager, including you I trust, did. When the patches break the unit tests, they are rejected. So stop blaming others for your problems please. If you had simply followed the well-documented and reasonable guidelines for patch submission, this would never had happened. Again, your problem only. As for a Migen/MyHDL merger, stop insulting our intelligence here, we are engineers. It is your good right to think the event-driven paradigm is the wrong choice. But of course you and I know damn well that the paradigm choice is the fundamental design decision behind an HDL. If you make a fundamentally different decision, than *that* is the reason why a "merge" is not possible, not our intransigence. What Migen shows, is that you didn't like MyHDL's fundamental design concept in the first place, which is your good right and a very good reason for you to be elsewhere. Jan -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com |
From: David G. <dsg...@gm...> - 2012-03-12 22:08:00
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My meaning is that I'd prefer to be see announcements all over the Python/HDL landscape everywhere, rather than requiring me to sign up to each low-traffic mailing list separately. Even if now is not the time to merge MyHDL and Migen, perhaps next year (or the year after) is, and it's a good thing to keep discussion and ideas flowing between these 2 communities. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Jan Decaluwe <ja...@ja...> wrote: > On 03/12/2012 10:23 PM, Thomas Heller wrote: >> Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: >>> I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is >>> doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny >>> communities. >> >> +1 from me too. >> >> Thomas >> > > What do you both mean? Obviously Migen "fractures" > the community. Also, obviously they think they are making > progress. Do you want to hear about it or not? > > -- > Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com > Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org > VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com > World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > _______________________________________________ > myhdl-list mailing list > myh...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/myhdl-list |
From: Jan D. <ja...@ja...> - 2012-03-12 21:57:29
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On 03/12/2012 10:23 PM, Thomas Heller wrote: > Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: >> I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is >> doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny >> communities. > > +1 from me too. > > Thomas > What do you both mean? Obviously Migen "fractures" the community. Also, obviously they think they are making progress. Do you want to hear about it or not? -- Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com |
From: Thomas H. <th...@ct...> - 2012-03-12 21:24:07
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Am 12.03.2012 16:10, schrieb David Greenberg: > I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is > doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny > communities. +1 from me too. Thomas |
From: David G. <dsg...@gm...> - 2012-03-12 15:10:55
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I like hearing about progress in the Python HDL front, whomever is doing it. I don't think it makes sense to fracture these already tiny communities. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq <seb...@mi...> wrote: > On 03/12/2012 03:42 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: >> Sure, there are many things "closely" related. If Mentor or Cadence >> were advertising their latest offerings here, I don't think anyone would >> object to calling it spam. > > This software is just commercial and proprietary offerings about which > you have no way to discuss. Migen is an open source project. This makes > a lot of difference to me. > >> So yes, it is spam it has nothing to do with MyHDL. It is different if >> projects that MyHDL interfaces/uses (Icarus, Python, pypy, etc) or >> projects that build off MyHDL post releases. This is not the case, you >> are simply exploiting this group for your own self interest. > > ...which is, in this case, discussing and building the best open source > Python-based hardware description language and tools. I won't go after > you if you "spam" our communication channels about the latest MyHDL > features; in fact, if this brings about fruitful technical discussion, > it would be welcome. I'd also be welcoming a Migen/MyHDL merger (no need > to duplicate efforts) - but you rejected even the most simple patches > from me - not my problem. > > Sébastien > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > _______________________________________________ > myhdl-list mailing list > myh...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/myhdl-list |
From: Sébastien B. <seb...@mi...> - 2012-03-12 14:50:47
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On 03/12/2012 03:42 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: > Sure, there are many things "closely" related. If Mentor or Cadence > were advertising their latest offerings here, I don't think anyone would > object to calling it spam. This software is just commercial and proprietary offerings about which you have no way to discuss. Migen is an open source project. This makes a lot of difference to me. > So yes, it is spam it has nothing to do with MyHDL. It is different if > projects that MyHDL interfaces/uses (Icarus, Python, pypy, etc) or > projects that build off MyHDL post releases. This is not the case, you > are simply exploiting this group for your own self interest. ...which is, in this case, discussing and building the best open source Python-based hardware description language and tools. I won't go after you if you "spam" our communication channels about the latest MyHDL features; in fact, if this brings about fruitful technical discussion, it would be welcome. I'd also be welcoming a Migen/MyHDL merger (no need to duplicate efforts) - but you rejected even the most simple patches from me - not my problem. Sébastien |
From: Christopher F. <chr...@gm...> - 2012-03-12 14:43:04
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On 3/12/2012 9:05 AM, Sébastien Bourdeauducq wrote: > On 03/12/2012 02:58 PM, Christopher Felton wrote: >> Why do you spam this mailing list? > > I believe the topic is closely related (isn't it?), so this is not spam. > Sure, there are many things "closely" related. If Mentor or Cadence were advertising their latest offerings here, I don't think anyone would object to calling it spam. So yes, it is spam it has nothing to do with MyHDL. It is different if projects that MyHDL interfaces/uses (Icarus, Python, pypy, etc) or projects that build off MyHDL post releases. This is not the case, you are simply exploiting this group for your own self interest. Regards, Chris |