From: Kai Tietz <ktietz70@go...>  20110430 15:34:00

2011/4/30 K. Frank <kfrank29.c@...>: > Hello Kai! > > On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Kai Tietz <ktietz70@...> wrote: >> 2011/4/30 Kai Tietz <ktietz70@...>: >>> 2011/4/30 Greg Chicares <gchicares@...>: >>>> On 20110429 19:55Z, K. Frank wrote: >>>>> >>>>> By the way, could someone confirm that mingw does use msvcrt for >>>>> sqrt and pow? >>>> >>>> http://cygwin.com/cgibin/cvsweb.cgi/src/winsup/mingw/mingwex/math/?cvsroot=src >>>> >>>> Looks to me like sqrt(double) calls into msvcrt. But pow() is a >>>> different story. Danny implemented it in libmingwex because of >>>> some qualityofimplementation problem with msvcrt; then people >>>> complained that the libmingwex version was slower, and I can't >>>> remember where it wound up, but it's all in the archives. >>>> >>>>> sqrt (x) and pow (x, 0.5) ought to give the same result (even if not required >>>>> to by IEEE754). >>>> ... >>>> Not so many years ago (perhaps when msvcrt was written), it was >>>> thought that correctlyrounded transcendental functions weren't >>>> feasible in practice, so library authors had a looser attitude >>>> toward exactness. If you have an ideal implementation of sqrt() >>>> but a pow() that's only approximate, should you specialcase >>>> the power of exactly 0.5? If you do, then pow() and sqrt() will >>>> be consistent, but then the powers >>>> x^(0.5*(1epsilon)) >>>> x^(0.5 ) >>>> x^(0.5*(1+epsilon)) >>>> might not be monotone. Some would call that a bad tradeoff. >>> >>> Well, I spent some efforts into log, exp, and pow implementation. Also >>> some other basemath functions I improved in mingww64's math library >>> in two terms. a) Make those functions behave as ISOC99 specification >>> tells in cornercases. and b) Improve accuracy in terms of gcc's >>> internal used gmp. As we noticed here result differences. >>> >>> The following example illustrates the issues pretty well: >>> >>> #include <stdio.h> >>> #include <math.h> >>> >>> double abc[3][2] = { { 2.2, 3.1 }, { 2.0, 3.0 }, { 4.0, 0.5 } }; >>> long double ab[3][2] = { { 2.2L, 3.1L }, { 2.0L, 3.0L }, { 4.0L, 0.5L } }; >>> int main() >>> { >>> double r[3]; >>> long double rl[3]; >>> int i; >>> for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20F^%.20F = %.20F\n", abc[i][0], abc[i][1], >>> (r[i] = pow (abc[i][0], abc[i][1]))); >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F %.20F\n", pow (2.2, 3.1), pow (2.0, >>> 3.0), pow (4.0, 0.5)); >>> r[0] = pow (2.2, 3.1); >>> r[1] = pow (2.0, 3.0); >>> r[2] = pow (4.0, 0.5); >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F %.20F\n", r[0], r[1], r[2]); >>> >>> for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20LF^%.20LF = %.20LF\n", ab[i][0], ab[i][1], >>> (rl[i] = powl (ab[i][0], ab[i][1]))); >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF %.20LF\n", >>> powl (2.2L, 3.1L), powl (2.0L, 3.0L) , powl >>> (4.0L, 0.5L)); >>> rl[0] = powl (2.2L, 3.1L); >>> rl[1] = powl (2.0L, 3.0L); >>> rl[2] = powl (4.0L, 0.5L); >>> __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF %.20LF\n", rl[0], rl[1], rl[2]); >>> return 1; >>> } > > Do I understand your point correctly that you are comparing gcc's > compiletime and runtime values for pow? > > For the record, when I run this on a mingw64 build: > > gcc (GCC) 4.5.2 20101002 (prerelease) [svn/rev.164902  mingww64/oz] > > I get: > > C:\>gcc o pow_test pow_test.c > > C:\>pow_test > 2.20000000000000017764^3.10000000000000008882 = 11.52153412678571875460 > 2.00000000000000000000^3.00000000000000000000 = 8.00000000000000000000 > 4.00000000000000000000^0.50000000000000000000 = 2.00000000000000000000 > 11.52153412678571697825 8.00000000000000000000 2.00000000000000000000 > 0.00000000000000177636 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 > 2.20000000000000000004^3.09999999999999999991 = 11.52153412678571414718 > 2.00000000000000000000^3.00000000000000000000 = 8.00000000000000000000 > 4.00000000000000000000^0.50000000000000000000 = 2.00000000000000000000 > 11.52153412678571414718 8.00000000000000000000 2.00000000000000000000 > 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 > > As I understand it, this means I am seeing a small difference between > compile and runtime evaluation only for powl (2.2, 3.1), i.e., the > longdouble case. > >>> The interesting issue is here that gcc uses for constant >>> mathcalculations gmplibrary to get result. For more complex >>> variants, it uses crt's math. By this it is important for a gcc based >>> runtime to be in the IEEE 754 floating point compatible to gmp's >>> results. > > Yes, that's a good point. I hadn't considered the issue of compiletime > evaluation, and, ideally, it should agree with runtime evaluation, adding > yet another constraint to our wish list. > > Furthermore, if we take the idea of a crosscompiler seriously, we > would also like the compiletime evaluations of a crosscompiler and > native compiler to agree. > > Hmm... > > So, we would like sqrt (x) and pow (x, 0.5) to agree. We would like > compiletime and runtime evaluations to agree. We would like > crosscompilers and native compilers to agree. > > Taken at face value, this would seem to preclude using the platform > library and platform hardware to compute things like sqrt and pow > (unless we know they comply with some agreedupon standard, > such as IEEE754). > > Just to make the reasoning explicit, if I perform my runtime evaluation > on platform A, e.g., using platform A's FPU, then a B>A crosscompiler > running on platform B won't have platform A's FPU available to perform > consistent compiletime evaluations. > > So you either give up some of the abovewishedfor consistency, you > forgo the potential performance benefits of using the platform's library > and / or hardware, or you get everybody to use a common standard. > >>> ... >>> I admit that this might be not that obvious to users, why results here >>> are different, but for a gcc based toolchain we need to play nice with >>> gcc's internal assumptions. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Kai >> >> On closer look for long double, we can have rouding issues for long >> double precission. I see that powl (0.01L, 0.5L) we have a rounding >> difference to sqrtl (0.01L). Interestingly not for float or double >> types. So we we might need to specialcase in pow the case for y == >> 0.5 to solve this. > > Be, however, cognizant of Greg's concern. Forcing pow to agree with > sqrt just for y = 0.5 has the potential to make pow, in a sense, internally > inconsistent, It's a tricky tradeoff. (Ideally, both pow and sqrt would > be "exact" and therefore agree with one another automatically.) > > By the way, I also see a problem with runtime powl for powl (2.2L, 0.5L). > It disagrees slightly from sqrtl (2.2L) and from the compiletime value > for powl (2.2L, 0.5L). > > I modified your test program to compare sqrt with pow (x, 0.5) (and sqrtl > with powl). For the record: > > C:\>gcc version > gcc (GCC) 4.5.2 20101002 (prerelease) [svn/rev.164902  mingww64/oz] > > C:\>gcc o sqrt_pow sqrt_pow.c > > C:\>sqrt_pow > 1.04880884817015163080, 1.04880884817015163080, 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.48323969741913264109, 1.48323969741913264109, 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.81659021245849494619, 1.81659021245849494619, 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.04880884817015163080 1.04880884817015163080 > 1.48323969741913264109 1.48323969741913264109 > 1.81659021245849494619 1.81659021245849494619 > 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 > 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.04880884817015154699, 1.04880884817015154699, 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.48323969741913258980, 1.48323969741913258970, 0.00000000000000000011 > 1.81659021245849499921, 1.81659021245849499921, 0.00000000000000000000 > 1.04880884817015154699 1.04880884817015154699 > 1.48323969741913258980 1.48323969741913258980 > 1.81659021245849499921 1.81659021245849499921 > 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 > 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000011 0.00000000000000000000 > > where sqrt_pow.c is: > > #include <stdio.h> > #include <math.h> > > double abc[3] = { 1.1, 2.2, 3.3 }; > long double abcl[3] = { 1.1L, 2.2L, 3.3L }; > int main() > { > double r1[3], r2[3], r3[3]; > long double rl1[3], rl2[3], rl3[3]; > int i; > for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) > __mingw_printf ("%.20F, %.20F, %.20F\n", > (r1[i] = sqrt (abc[i])), > (r2[i] = pow (abc[i], 0.5)), > (r3[i] = pow (abc[i], 0.5)  sqrt (abc[i]))); > __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F\n", sqrt (1.1), pow (1.1, 0.5)); > __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F\n", sqrt (2.2), pow (2.2, 0.5)); > __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F\n", sqrt (3.3), pow (3.3, 0.5)); > r1[0] = sqrt (1.1); > r1[1] = sqrt (2.2); > r1[2] = sqrt (3.3); > __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F %.20F\n", r1[0], r1[1], r1[2]); > r2[0] = pow (1.1, 0.5); > r2[1] = pow (2.2, 0.5); > r2[2] = pow (3.3, 0.5); > __mingw_printf ("%.20F %.20F %.20F\n", r2[0], r2[1], r2[2]); > > for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF, %.20LF, %.20LF\n", > (rl1[i] = sqrtl (abcl[i])), > (rl2[i] = powl (abcl[i], 0.5L)), > (rl3[i] = powl (abcl[i], 0.5L)  sqrtl (abcl[i]))); > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF\n", sqrtl (1.1L), powl (1.1L, 0.5L)); > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF\n", sqrtl (2.2L), powl (2.2L, 0.5L)); > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF\n", sqrtl (3.3L), powl (3.3L, 0.5L)); > rl1[0] = sqrtl (1.1L); > rl1[1] = sqrtl (2.2L); > rl1[2] = sqrtl (3.3L); > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF %.20LF\n", rl1[0], rl1[1], rl1[2]); > rl2[0] = powl (1.1L, 0.5L); > rl2[1] = powl (2.2L, 0.5L); > rl2[2] = powl (3.3L, 0.5L); > __mingw_printf ("%.20LF %.20LF %.20LF\n", rl2[0], rl2[1], rl2[2]); > > return 1; > } > >> >> Kai > > Thanks, Kai, for your insight and explanations. > > > K. Frank I add a special case to mingww64's pow(fl) function about y=0.5 and get now for your adjusted testcase the following results, which are looking much better IMHO. $ ./tst.exe 1.04880884817015163080, 1.04880884817015163080, 0.00000000000000004142 1.48323969741913264109, 1.48323969741913264109, 0.00000000000000000857 1.81659021245849494619, 1.81659021245849494619, 0.00000000000000000412 1.04880884817015163080 1.04880884817015163080 1.48323969741913264109 1.48323969741913264109 1.81659021245849494619 1.81659021245849494619 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 1.04880884817015154699, 1.04880884817015154699, 0.00000000000000000000 1.48323969741913258980, 1.48323969741913258980, 0.00000000000000000000 1.81659021245849499921, 1.81659021245849499921, 0.00000000000000000000 1.04880884817015154699 1.04880884817015154699 1.48323969741913258980 1.48323969741913258980 1.81659021245849499921 1.81659021245849499921 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 0.00000000000000000000 I used for this a 32bit variant and 64bit variant, which made no differences in output. The issue here is that 1.0 branch still uses the inaccurate variant from Danny, but nowaday's trunk uses for pow, sqrt, log, and exp functions new implementations, which are treating rounding and shortpath calculation in an ISOC variant (as gcc expects internally such a math). Also complexmath part is completely rewritten on mingww64's trunk version. IMHO it might be a good idea to replace step by step the classical runtime functions, so that they are not using here msvcrt in first place. Of course the importsymbols of msvcrt (for compatibility with VC generated objects need to remain in .def exports, but the actual functions should come directly from mingwex. 