From: Wolfgang G. <wol...@ev...> - 2009-03-15 20:15:24
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Hi all, Since we are waiting for gcc-4.4.0 being released by the SC we should take the time a think about the way mingw-w64 will be presented to the user once it's getting more stable. (AFAIK, it *is* already very stable) Making available nightly snapshots is a fine thing by now, but starting with gcc-4.4.0 there should be an "official" mingw-w32 and mingw-w64 release with releases notes et al.. Otherwise, package maintainers will have a hard time to query each user which sends in a bug report for the exact snapshot he or she is using. Given that mingw-w64 is a real improvement about the way the old mingw32 compiler suite is managed, it is not a replacement for all the native Windows development tools like make, autoconf, sed, awk,... which are provided by mingw32/msys. So I think that user, who are not interested in cross-compilation only, might expect, that the old mingw32/msys tolls will be arranged around latest and greatest gcc/Windows integration. Are there any efforts to arrange for such an integration in the near future? Best regards, Wolfgang |
From: NightStrike <nig...@gm...> - 2009-03-15 20:29:30
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On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Wolfgang Glas <wol...@ev...> wrote: > Hi all, > > Since we are waiting for gcc-4.4.0 being released by the SC we should take the > time a think about the way mingw-w64 will be presented to the user once it's > getting more stable. (AFAIK, it *is* already very stable) > > Making available nightly snapshots is a fine thing by now, but starting with > gcc-4.4.0 there should be an "official" mingw-w32 and mingw-w64 release with > releases notes et al.. Otherwise, package maintainers will have a hard time to > query each user which sends in a bug report for the exact snapshot he or she is > using. > > Given that mingw-w64 is a real improvement about the way the old mingw32 > compiler suite is managed, it is not a replacement for all the native Windows > development tools like make, autoconf, sed, awk,... which are provided by > mingw32/msys. So I think that user, who are not interested in cross-compilation > only, might expect, that the old mingw32/msys tolls will be arranged around > latest and greatest gcc/Windows integration. > > Are there any efforts to arrange for such an integration in the near future? First, I created two new groups: Toolchains targeting Win64 Toolchains targeting Win32 In each of those groups is a single release, "Automated Builds" When gcc 4.4 is released, we will provide an actual release-tested complete gcc 4.4-based toolchain with a specific binutils version and a specific mingw-w64/32 version. They will go in this area. Now, as for a development environment, I have given thought to this. I would like to be able to provide a complete tarball that contains a working gnu-ish system. The way that mingw.org packages things is too confusing for my tastes. However, we have not yet begun to port things like msys, or to try compiling msys on/for Win64. I personally feel that the msys environment is sub-par, and if you need that much in the way of gnu tools, you're better off going with cygwin. So really, I guess we're open to suggestions for a definite Way Ahead plan. Perhaps you would like to officially join our project? |
From: Arthur N. <ac...@ca...> - 2009-03-15 20:59:11
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>> Are there any efforts to arrange for such an integration in the near >> future? > > The way that mingw.org packages things is too > confusing for my tastes. However, we have not yet begun to port > things like msys, or to try compiling msys on/for Win64. I personally > feel that the msys environment is sub-par, and if you need that much > in the way of gnu tools, you're better off going with cygwin. > I will stick a thought in here, but I am naturally aware that ANY move that consolidates mingw-w64 with other code is liable to be both a tecnical and a political mountain of pretty substantial magnitude, so my "wish" here is something I would see as a long-term ideal and probably not a short term easy action. I would like to fetch one package and then have gcc foo.c -o foocygwin 32-bit cygwin gcc -mno-cygwin foo.c -o foow32 32-bit native windows gcc -mno-cygwin -m64 foo.c -o foow64 64-bit native windows with all that happening effortlessly with an easy click or two in the options about what I fetch when I fetch the whole cygwin environment that I like to have so I can use all the other associated GNU and Unix-style tools. So if there was any prospect that the cygwin people would be willing to fold your stuff into the multi-lib scheme that they already have that supports mingw-w32 that would give a very comfortable experience for people like me. Meanwhile what you have right now is still GREAT! Arthur |
From: NightStrike <nig...@gm...> - 2009-03-15 21:33:16
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On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Arthur Norman <ac...@ca...> wrote: >>> Are there any efforts to arrange for such an integration in the near >>> future? >> >> The way that mingw.org packages things is too >> confusing for my tastes. However, we have not yet begun to port >> things like msys, or to try compiling msys on/for Win64. I personally >> feel that the msys environment is sub-par, and if you need that much >> in the way of gnu tools, you're better off going with cygwin. >> > I will stick a thought in here, but I am naturally aware that ANY move that > consolidates mingw-w64 with other code is liable to be both a tecnical and a > political mountain of pretty substantial magnitude, so my "wish" here is > something I would see as a long-term ideal and probably not a short term > easy action. > > I would like to fetch one package and then have > gcc foo.c -o foocygwin 32-bit cygwin > gcc -mno-cygwin foo.c -o foow32 32-bit native windows > gcc -mno-cygwin -m64 foo.c -o foow64 64-bit native windows > with all that happening effortlessly with an easy click or two in the > options about what I fetch when I fetch the whole cygwin environment that I > like to have so I can use all the other associated GNU and Unix-style tools. > > So if there was any prospect that the cygwin people would be willing to fold > your stuff into the multi-lib scheme that they already have that supports > mingw-w32 that would give a very comfortable experience for people like me. > > Meanwhile what you have right now is still GREAT! > Arthur We are working on multilib support, and have already lined up cygwin support. The only reason cygwin doesn't provide our toolchains yet is that I haven't found the time to give them the files for it. I'm trying to keep my head above water :) |
From: Wolfgang G. <wol...@ev...> - 2009-03-16 10:27:11
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NightStrike schrieb: > On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Wolfgang Glas <wol...@ev...> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Since we are waiting for gcc-4.4.0 being released by the SC we should take the >> time a think about the way mingw-w64 will be presented to the user once it's >> getting more stable. (AFAIK, it *is* already very stable) >> >> Making available nightly snapshots is a fine thing by now, but starting with >> gcc-4.4.0 there should be an "official" mingw-w32 and mingw-w64 release with >> releases notes et al.. Otherwise, package maintainers will have a hard time to >> query each user which sends in a bug report for the exact snapshot he or she is >> using. >> >> Given that mingw-w64 is a real improvement about the way the old mingw32 >> compiler suite is managed, it is not a replacement for all the native Windows >> development tools like make, autoconf, sed, awk,... which are provided by >> mingw32/msys. So I think that user, who are not interested in cross-compilation >> only, might expect, that the old mingw32/msys tolls will be arranged around >> latest and greatest gcc/Windows integration. >> >> Are there any efforts to arrange for such an integration in the near future? > > First, I created two new groups: > > Toolchains targeting Win64 > Toolchains targeting Win32 > > In each of those groups is a single release, "Automated Builds" > > When gcc 4.4 is released, we will provide an actual release-tested > complete gcc 4.4-based toolchain with a specific binutils version and > a specific mingw-w64/32 version. They will go in this area. Well, that's very fine ;-) I didn't recognize that "Automated Builds" is a subgroup that will be complemented with a release subfolder. > Now, as for a development environment, I have given thought to this. > I would like to be able to provide a complete tarball that contains a > working gnu-ish system. The way that mingw.org packages things is too > confusing for my tastes. However, we have not yet begun to port > things like msys, or to try compiling msys on/for Win64. I personally > feel that the msys environment is sub-par, and if you need that much > in the way of gnu tools, you're better off going with cygwin. For my part I like the mingw-w64 approach of reducing things to the bare minimum, which is a compiler plus binutils plus a development environment for system libraries ver much. And I'm very happy with high-quality cross-compilers for Linux, because I can now compile my software on a single build machine for Windows an Linux ;-) > So really, I guess we're open to suggestions for a definite Way Ahead > plan. Perhaps you would like to officially join our project? Since I'm happy with cross-compilation, I'm not the right one to drive the development of a Windows-based toolchain. And I have a sever lack of time. However, thanks for you invitation ;-) I will try to keep on reporting bugs and providing for testcases as needed. The main reason for opening this discussion is that I've got the implression, that there are several small groups (mingw32,cygwin,mingw-w64,fedora mingw) who are doing very similar work. IMHO it would be very benfitial for the users and all driving forces behind these projects to get a clear overview of all projects and to cooperate as much as possible. E.g, it was a big surprise, that the mingw-w64 is doing such a tremendous work on a complete x-compilation suite for Win{32,64} and the project is not even mentioned on well-known websites in the field. Best regards, Wolfgang |
From: NightStrike <nig...@gm...> - 2009-03-16 14:13:49
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On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Wolfgang Glas <wol...@ev...> wrote: >> When gcc 4.4 is released, we will provide an actual release-tested >> complete gcc 4.4-based toolchain with a specific binutils version and >> a specific mingw-w64/32 version. They will go in this area. > > Well, that's very fine ;-) I didn't recognize that "Automated Builds" is a > subgroup that will be complemented with a release subfolder. Right. To be clear, there will be releases that are siblings of "Automated Builds" > I will try to keep on reporting bugs and providing for testcases as needed. Thanks! > The main reason for opening this discussion is that I've got the implression, > that there are several small groups (mingw32,cygwin,mingw-w64,fedora mingw) who > are doing very similar work. IMHO it would be very benfitial for the users and > all driving forces behind these projects to get a clear overview of all projects > and to cooperate as much as possible. > > E.g, it was a big surprise, that the mingw-w64 is doing such a tremendous work > on a complete x-compilation suite for Win{32,64} and the project is not even > mentioned on well-known websites in the field. Feel free to mention us anywhere and everywhere :) |