Re: [Matplotlib-users] Why is pip not mentioned in the Installation Documentation?

[Neal B. <ndb...@gm...>]

python setup.py install won't cause that issue.

Also, easy_install doesn't cause the same issue.  OTOH, I'm not sure what
easy_install does in the case of deps.  If you use pip install --user it
will try (and fail) to remove old versions of deps from system.  I don't
know what easy_install does in this case.

I have also had issues where python setup.py install will install
everything into /usr/lib, while fedora packaging will try to install
arch-dep parts under e.g., /usr/lib64.  I have many times wound up with 2
versions of things that way.


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Mathew Topper <mat...@ed...>wrote:

>  Neal, thanks for the warning. I found the thread of your discussion here
> actually:
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-February/162496.html
>
> It's very interesting. My feeling would be that a PyPI fedora repository
> would make the most sense - much like the current Fedora TexLive2012
> testing repository - but obviously this is no small job.
>
> "python setup.py install" doesn't have similar issues, I take it?
>
> Mat
>
>
> On 20/11/12 11:40, Neal Becker wrote:
>
> The problem is that pip packages something as a dir where easy_install
> packages as a file, or vice-versa.  Then when you update, cpio will fail
> (doesn't know how to replace a dir with a file, or vice-versa).  Next, the
> entire installation will abort!!!!  Leaving you with a mess.
>
>  I understand it's possible to manually then fix this mess using (some
> obscure) yum incantations, but I don't recall what.  Usually at this point
> I wipe the disc.
>
>  This has happened to me multiple times on multiple machines, and was
> discussed at some length on fedora-dev list maybe 1 year ago.  The basic
> message was that I shouldn't use pip to install into the system dirs.  But
> even using pip --user is not answer, because pip will see that e.g.,
> matplotlib wants a newer version of pytz, and will attempt to remove the
> system pytz (and fail and abort).
>
>  The only reliable approach is virtualenv.  Not really very satisfactory.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:02 AM, Mathew Topper <mat...@ed...>wrote:
>
>>  Hi Neal,
>>
>> Is that due to conflicting package versions? I haven't suffered any
>> particular issues like this yet, but it seems to me that pip would be
>> improved if it interacted better with the environment it was in. How hard
>> would it be to get pip to interact with yum and apt, for instance, to get
>> valid binaries and/or devel files?
>>
>> I can't help thinking that Latex packaging is very similar, in that linux
>> distributions often struggle to keep up, which I guess is why TexLive
>> started.
>>
>> And then to complicate matters further, our sys admin said he didn't like
>> pip as he would rather generate RPMs, in order that there is not a lot of
>> work to do for system rebuilds in our labs. I found pypi2rpm, but that
>> looks pretty bleeding edge and I think I'm getting out of my depth as a
>> humble scientist.
>>
>> Mat
>>
>> On 19/11/12 12:59, Neal Becker wrote:
>>
>> Mathew Topper wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> I'm interested to know why the pip package manager is not more widely
>> supported for installation of python packages like matplotlib?
>> Matplotlib seems to be particularly slowly updated in the Fedora
>> repositories, for example, so I often find that a source installation is
>> necessary. I know this isn't especially difficult for the experienced
>> user, but surely using something like pip would make this process for
>> accessible for all users of python packages, particularly those that do
>> not receive much attention from the big distribution maintainers? Yet,
>> pip doesn't get a mention on the installation documentation of
>> matplotlib or many other python packs.
>>
>> I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this matter.
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>>
>> Mat
>>
>>  It is dangerous to use pip on fedora, it may result in your next attempt to
>> update the system failing horribly.
>>
>> If you use it, try to install with --user.  Unfortunately, this often won't work
>> because pip will then complain when attempting to remove a system version of
>> some dep.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single
>> web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware,
>> SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial.
>> Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications!http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov
>> _______________________________________________
>> Matplotlib-users mailing lis...@li...://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Mathew Topper
>> Institute for Energy Systems
>> School of Engineering
>> The University of Edinburgh
>> Faraday Building
>> The King’s Buildings
>> Edinburgh EH9 3JL
>> Tel: +44 (0)131 650 5570 <%2B44%20%280%29131%20650%205570>
>> School fax: +44 (0)131 650 6554 <%2B44%20%280%29131%20650%206554>
>> mat...@ed...
>> http://www.see.ed.ac.uk
>>
>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Mathew Topper
> Institute for Energy Systems
> School of Engineering
> The University of Edinburgh
> Faraday Building
> The King’s Buildings
> Edinburgh EH9 3JL
> Tel: +44 (0)131 650 5570
> School fax: +44 (0)131 650 6554
> mat...@ed...
> http://www.see.ed.ac.uk
>
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
>