linuxconsole-dev

multi-user live cd is ready

[Michael P. <lin...@gr...>]

We have a beta version of our live cd demo based on Ubuntu 5.10
available for download at:
http://ftp.open-sense.net/badger/groovix_badger_live_20051113.iso

It uses the evdev approach for multiple x servers and sessiond for
sound.  It will work in single-user or multi-user modes depending on
how many video cards and keyboards/mice you have plugged in.=20
Multi-user sound support is in there too if you have multiple sound
cards.

By default the stations will boot into our kiosk desktop, but you can
also log in to standard gnome desktops as well.  The Ubuntu live cd is
very flexible, you can customize just about everything and install
arbitrary programs onto it while running as long as you have enough
ram.  You can run this cd with 512MB, but 1GB is nicer.  Once
everything has been accessed once and is cached in ram, it is pretty
fast.

NOTE: This version will only work in multi-user mode with nvidia
cards, but you can just make some changes to the xorg.conf for other
brands, we just didn't get fancy with autodetection.  Also, it is set
up to read customizations from our server when it boots, so if you
want a custom version without respinning the disc, just give us your
MAC address and $50 and we'll set you up with a custom account and 1
year of basic support.  We can also respin custom discs for you if you
want bigger changes that are slow to load over the network.

We've still got a bit of work to do, we are polishing per-user usb
drive support, consistent usb sound device assignment, and multiXnest
2 displays per video card support.

We'd love some feedback, so let us know what problems you run into,
and what other features you would like to see.
Thanks,
Mike Pardee
Open Sense Solutions LLC
http://opensensesolutions.com

Re: Secondary console does not start properly, int10 problem?

[Friedrich W. H. K. <Fri...@ko...>]

Am Montag 14 November 2005 10:17, schrieb Aivils Stoss:
> On Sv=E7tdiena, 13. Novembris 2005 23:23, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> > PCI ViRGE/DX-graphic cards (s3virge driver) with a LCD
> > PCI TGUI 9440 graphic cards (trident driver) with a CRT
>
> Old is gold?

Rather, old did not cost money ;)=20
But they look rather rusty right now, in terms of multi terminal :/

> > 2 PS/2 keyboards :)
> > 1 serial mouse
> > 1 USB mouse
> >
> > The hardware runs properly in a plain dual head single console setup. So
> > I read all the docs I found (thanks to those who set them all up :) and
> > ended with this multi console approach:
> > * added boot service which probes secondary graphic card (u.
> > xorg.conf.probe) -> works, second monitor changes from blank to blinking
> > text mode cursor * added service faketty and start links to
> > /etc/init.d{,/rc3.d,/rc5.d} -> works, /dev/{fttyN,tty5N} can be opened
> > and give pressed keys exclusivly* * added some symlinks to X (X0, X1, w=
hy
> > is this needed at all?)
>
> Only for killing of right X.

I guess for killall?

> > * edited xorg.conf: one layout for each graphic card/terminal, added
> > 	Option       "SingleCard" "true"
> > to every layout,
> > 	Option       "NoInt10"
> > to every device.
> > So the setup looks complete, doesn't it? (kdmrc left out for the moment)
> >
> > Well, it works only so far as the console on the primary is started (bo=
th
> > with vt7 and vt51). Then the X-Server starts up nicely only on this
> > screen and runs a heavy KDE session with no problems. Shutting down also
> > goes smoothly. But when starting the secondary console (with or without
> > the first running), e.g.
> > 	$ X1 -layout "TGUI console" :1 vt52
> > it fails. The screen stays in textmode, last line printed
> > 	(=3D=3D) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> > Resetting per Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does not work, I have to login remotely
> > to kill -9 the X process. Before doing so listing the processes returns
> > 5072 ?        Rs     2:02 X1 :1 -layout TGUI console vt52
> > Then I get back to the shell prompt locally (sometimes lost in random
> > character printing, synchronous to key presses), only to have the whole
> > computer hangup completly after some further shell operations (like
> > trying to reboot).
>
> faketty runs correctly if is possible see output of this:
> # cat /dev/fttyXX

It is, but only for ftty{1,2}. ftty0 stays silent.

> Also full truth about Linux input, ftty included
> # cat /proc/bus/input/devices

It is, ah, funny, the pc speaker got ftty0, now, for that I have a hard tim=
e=20
to produce input :P

I: Bus=3D0010 Vendor=3D001f Product=3D0001 Version=3D0100
N: Name=3D"PC Speaker"
P: Phys=3Disa0061/input0
H: Handlers=3Dkbd event0 ftty0
B: EV=3D40001
B: SND=3D6

I: Bus=3D0011 Vendor=3D0001 Product=3D0002 Version=3Dab83
N: Name=3D"AT Raw Set 2 keyboard"
P: Phys=3Disa0060/serio1/input0
H: Handlers=3Dkbd event1 ftty1
B: EV=3D120013
B: KEY=3D4 2000000 3802078 f840d001 f2ffffdf ffefffff ffffffff fffffffe
B: MSC=3D10
B: LED=3D7

I: Bus=3D0011 Vendor=3D0001 Product=3D0001 Version=3Dab41
N: Name=3D"AT Translated Set 2 keyboard"
P: Phys=3Disa0060/serio0/input0
H: Handlers=3Dkbd event2 ftty2
B: EV=3D120013
B: KEY=3D4 2000000 3802078 f840d001 f2ffffdf ffefffff ffffffff fffffffe
B: MSC=3D10
B: LED=3D7

I: Bus=3D0003 Vendor=3D05fe Product=3D0001 Version=3D047b
N: Name=3D"Cypress Sem Cypress USB Mouse"
P: Phys=3Dusb-0000:00:07.2-2/input0
H: Handlers=3Dmouse0 event3
B: EV=3D7
B: KEY=3D70000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B: REL=3D3

> > Funny enough: Having started the secondary console when pressing some
> > keys random characters are added both to the primary (where the shell i=
s)
> > _and_ the secondary screen. Even better, when some screensaver starts (=
no
> > idea which) _both_ screens are blanked and return again after some
> > keypress. Sometimes even the prompt changes to the second screen.
>
> Not all video adapters or X drivers have capability to share resources
> (VGA,PCI) between two independ X servers. Looks like one of X driver steer
> both adapters, because both adapters may be use same resources.

Hm. Is there any output I could investigate to find numbers which could poi=
nt=20
to shared resources? Like Xorg.{0,1}.log? Where to look best? Which resourc=
es=20
are there at all? What do you mean by VGA-resource? In the BIOS?

And does this mean that the single card option is not fully supported by al=
l=20
drivers? Where do/can they driver ignore it?

Regards
=46riedrich

Re: Secondary console does not start properly, int10 problem?

[Aivils S. <ai...@un...>]

On Sv=E7tdiena, 13. Novembris 2005 23:23, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am struggeling to get my dual terminal setup finished and am lost for
> now. Could somebody perhaps help me if there is something wrong in what I
> have done so far?
>
> Setup:
> SUSE 10.0 Xorg 6.8.2, patched with "isolate-device" (at least the patch
> could be manually matched...)
> Faketty 0.0.4
> (hijackled delayed for now)
> PCI ViRGE/DX-graphic cards (s3virge driver) with a LCD
> PCI TGUI 9440 graphic cards (trident driver) with a CRT

Old is gold?

> 2 PS/2 keyboards :)
> 1 serial mouse
> 1 USB mouse
>
> The hardware runs properly in a plain dual head single console setup. So I
> read all the docs I found (thanks to those who set them all up :) and end=
ed
> with this multi console approach:
> * added boot service which probes secondary graphic card (u.
> xorg.conf.probe) -> works, second monitor changes from blank to blinking
> text mode cursor * added service faketty and start links to
> /etc/init.d{,/rc3.d,/rc5.d} -> works, /dev/{fttyN,tty5N} can be opened and
> give pressed keys exclusivly* * added some symlinks to X (X0, X1, why is
> this needed at all?)

Only for killing of right X.=20

> * edited xorg.conf: one layout for each graphic card/terminal, added
> 	Option       "SingleCard" "true"
> to every layout,
> 	Option       "NoInt10"
> to every device.
> So the setup looks complete, doesn't it? (kdmrc left out for the moment)
>
> Well, it works only so far as the console on the primary is started (both
> with vt7 and vt51). Then the X-Server starts up nicely only on this screen
> and runs a heavy KDE session with no problems. Shutting down also goes
> smoothly. But when starting the secondary console (with or without the
> first running), e.g.
> 	$ X1 -layout "TGUI console" :1 vt52
> it fails. The screen stays in textmode, last line printed
> 	(=3D=3D) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> Resetting per Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does not work, I have to login remotely =
to
> kill -9 the X process. Before doing so listing the processes returns
> 	5072 ?        Rs     2:02 X1 :1 -layout TGUI console vt52
> Then I get back to the shell prompt locally (sometimes lost in random
> character printing, synchronous to key presses), only to have the whole
> computer hangup completly after some further shell operations (like trying
> to reboot).

faketty runs correctly if is possible see output of this:
# cat /dev/fttyXX

Also full truth about Linux input, ftty included
# cat /proc/bus/input/devices

> Funny enough: Having started the secondary console when pressing some keys
> random characters are added both to the primary (where the shell is) _and_
> the secondary screen. Even better, when some screensaver starts (no idea
> which) _both_ screens are blanked and return again after some keypress.
> Sometimes even the prompt changes to the second screen.

Not all video adapters or X drivers have capability to share resources
(VGA,PCI) between two independ X servers. Looks like one of X driver steer
both adapters, because both adapters may be use same resources.=20

Aivils

multiXnest results

[Michael P. <lin...@gr...>]

multiXnest looks great!  I always thought about creating that
capability by hacking VNC, I never really knew about Xnest.   I
haven't tried Aivils variant yet, that's next on my list.  Of course
there is no 3D acceleration and no xv extension, so the old single
xserver per card approach still has its place, but multiXnest looks
very promising.  NOTE: the keyboard leds are all working fine for me.

I set up a single nvidia dual-head card for two desktops, and am
having one significant problem:  sometimes after the machine sits idle
for a few hours (sometimes it goes for a long time OK) the gnome
sessions mysteriously exit and it goes back to the gdm login screen.
This same machine in a non-multiXnest configuration doesn't have that
problem.

So, where is the log for multiXnest?  Not in /var/log/Xorg* because it
is not an original X server, and ~/.xsession-errors only goes so far
before filling up with some stupid gnome error so I can't see if there
were gnome messages right before gnome dies.  Also, I didn't see a
debug command line option, what do you recommend for debugging
Xnest/multiXnest?

On a much less important note, gnome is acting a little strange with
Xnest, I think because the nested servers are indeed slower with
higher cpu usage, and the focus stealing prevention is kicking in way
too much.  Windows are sometimes getting launched behind others with a
flashing taskbar entry.  I have to figure out how to turn that off in
gnome.

Also, it probably doesn't matter, but I would feel better if there was
a way to completely disable the keyboard(s) on the root hardware x
server.  I found limited info, but couldn't start X with several
approaches.  One would think some kiosks would be without a keyboard
and there should be a way to use X like that.  We are using
AllowMouseFailOpen to disable mice on the root hardware x server.

Thanks,
Mike
--
Michael Pardee
Open Sense Solutions LLC
http://opensensesolutions.com

Secondary console does not start properly, int10 problem?

[Friedrich W. H. K. <Fri...@ko...>]

Hi,

I am struggeling to get my dual terminal setup finished and am lost for now. 
Could somebody perhaps help me if there is something wrong in what I have 
done so far?

Setup:
SUSE 10.0 Xorg 6.8.2, patched with "isolate-device" (at least the patch could 
be manually matched...)
Faketty 0.0.4
(hijackled delayed for now)
PCI ViRGE/DX-graphic cards (s3virge driver) with a LCD
PCI TGUI 9440 graphic cards (trident driver) with a CRT
2 PS/2 keyboards :)
1 serial mouse
1 USB mouse

The hardware runs properly in a plain dual head single console setup. So I 
read all the docs I found (thanks to those who set them all up :) and ended 
with this multi console approach:
* added boot service which probes secondary graphic card (u. xorg.conf.probe)
  -> works, second monitor changes from blank to blinking text mode cursor
* added service faketty and start links to /etc/init.d{,/rc3.d,/rc5.d}
  -> works, /dev/{fttyN,tty5N} can be opened and give pressed keys exclusivly*
* added some symlinks to X (X0, X1, why is this needed at all?)
* edited xorg.conf: one layout for each graphic card/terminal, added 
	Option       "SingleCard" "true"
to every layout,   
	Option       "NoInt10"
to every device.
So the setup looks complete, doesn't it? (kdmrc left out for the moment)

Well, it works only so far as the console on the primary is started (both with 
vt7 and vt51). Then the X-Server starts up nicely only on this screen and 
runs a heavy KDE session with no problems. Shutting down also goes smoothly.
But when starting the secondary console (with or without the first running), 
e.g.
	$ X1 -layout "TGUI console" :1 vt52
it fails. The screen stays in textmode, last line printed 
	(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
Resetting per Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does not work, I have to login remotely to 
kill -9 the X process. Before doing so listing the processes returns
	5072 ?        Rs     2:02 X1 :1 -layout TGUI console vt52
Then I get back to the shell prompt locally (sometimes lost in random 
character printing, synchronous to key presses), only to have the whole 
computer hangup completly after some further shell operations (like trying to 
reboot).

Funny enough: Having started the secondary console when pressing some keys 
random characters are added both to the primary (where the shell is) _and_ 
the secondary screen. Even better, when some screensaver starts (no idea 
which) _both_ screens are blanked and return again after some keypress. 
Sometimes even the prompt changes to the second screen. 

The behaviour is the same when swapping the cards (physically). So I am not 
sure if this due to bad drivers or misbehaving cards or bad configuration 
(how can the ram of the both be mixed up for the mentioned wild output?).

Please see this excerpt from the Xorg.1.log for a possible error:
--- 8< ---
...
(++) ServerLayout "TGUI console"
(**) |-->Screen "TGUI mit SN" (0)
(**) |   |-->Monitor "SN MCM1505"
(**) |   |-->Device "TGUI 9440"
(**) |-->Input Device "Generic Keyboard"
(**) |-->Input Device "SerialMouse"
(**) Option "SingleCard" "true"
(II) Isolating PCI bus "0:11:0"
...
(II) Loading sub module "int10"
(II) LoadModule: "int10"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libint10.a
(II) Module int10: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
        compiled for 6.8.2, module version = 1.0.0
        ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 0.7
(II) TRIDENT(0): initializing int10
(**) TRIDENT(0): Option "NoINT10" "true"
(--) TRIDENT(0): Revision is 255
(--) TRIDENT(0): Found TGUI9440AGi chip
(--) TRIDENT(0): RAM type is Standard DRAM
(--) TRIDENT(0): Using SW cursor
(--) TRIDENT(0): VideoRAM: 4096 kByte
...
(II) Loading sub module "int10"
(II) LoadModule: "int10"
(II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libint10.a
(II) TRIDENT(0): Initializing int10
(WW) TRIDENT(0): Cannot read colourmap from VGA.  Will restore with default
--- 8< ---

This is where the output stopped (maybe due to the rest not flushed out?).
When starting normally as the primary and single head I continues from here 
with:

--- 8< ----
(II) TRIDENT(0): Found Clock  66.71 n=113 m=11 k=1
(II) TRIDENT(0): Using 424 scanlines of offscreen memory for area's
(II) TRIDENT(0): Using XFree86 Acceleration Architecture (XAA)
        Screen to screen bit blits
        Solid filled rectangles
        8x8 mono pattern filled rectangles
        Solid Lines
        Dashed Lines
        Offscreen Pixmaps
        Setting up tile and stipple cache:
                28 128x128 slots
                32 8x8 color expansion slots
(==) TRIDENT(0): Backing store disabled
(**) Option "dpms" "false"
(**) TRIDENT(0): DPMS enabled
(==) RandR enabled
(II) Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM
(... other extensions and input devices trailing)
--- 8< ---

What could be wrong? Why is the int10-module loaded although neither mentioned 
in the module section nor enabled ("NoINT10" "true")? I am now clueless and 
have no idea how to proceed. Can someone help?

*And why does vt50 seem not to work? I do not get a single key press out of 
it. The keyboards are instead coupled to vt51 and vt52 respectively.

Thanks and Regards
Friedrich

Re: 2 PS/2 keyboards possible!

[Friedrich W. H. K. <Fri...@ko...>]

Am Donnerstag 10 November 2005 12:30, schrieb Hugo Vanwoerkom:
> --- "Friedrich W. H. Kossebau"
> <Fri...@ko...> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to
> > the port usually given to
> > a PS/2 mouse?
>
> Since no keyboard advances are possible since IBM made
> their Model M keyboard, having reached perfection, I
> have 2 of them from 1989 plugged into the keyboard
> outlet and into the mouse outlet.

Great. Thank you all for your answers, that served as proof at least=20
heuristically :P

So having my fears of damaging something blown away I tried it out and, nic=
e,=20
am seeing it working here, too. :)

> Then 2 optical mice into 2 USB ports.
>
> This works with either Ruby or Faketty. But Faketty
> beats Ruby hands down because textmode is so much
> better on the AGP screen.

Having now succeded in patching the SUSE 10.0's xorg rpms with the=20
isolate-device patch and having cross compiled the faketty input handler (i=
s=20
at least insmod'able at the target) I am right now setting up the environme=
nt=20
(reading, typing) and, well, let's see...

Regards
=46riedrich

Console permissions?

[Mark H. <mar...@xs...>]

Hi,


I've been running multi-console for a while now (sometimes ruby, sometimes
only with xorg patches), but would like to solve one final issue.
Normally when using a single console, the first user to login gets all 
kinds of
devices assigned, and thus is able to use /dev/cdrom for instance or the 
audio
devices /dev/dsp, /dev/mixer, /dev/snd/* and /dev/sound/*.

When multiple users being able to log in at the same time, I want this 
behaviour
to change. Simply disabling the default behaviour is possible, and thus 
setting
these devices to sane defaults is already possible.
(see 
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7-Manual/ref-guide/s1-sysadmin-console-access.html 
)

However ideally, I would want the proper devices to be assigned to the 
proper
user (e.g. if user john is logged onto head1, I want /dev/dsp1 and 
/dev/mixer1
assigned ownership to john, without interfering with user jane on head2 who
has assigned /dev/dsp2 and /dev/mixer2).

Anyone have an idea how to get this done? Can I do this using the
/etc/X11/gdm/PostLogin and /etc/X11/gdm/PostSession scripts or is there
a better way?


Greetings,
Mark.

Re: 2 PS/2 keyboards possible?

[Andrew W. <qw...@gm...>]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 2:03 pm, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I recently started* my ambitions to set up a multiuser terminal, too,
> reusing a bunch of old computers, graphic cards, and whatever, hoping that
> at least some of the hardware got working driver :)
>
> Reading through all the documentation I stumbled over
> http://www.ltn.lv/~aivils/eng-hw.html and wondered:
> Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to the port usually given
> to a PS/2 mouse? That would be great, for a two user setup with some serial
> card plugged in one wouldn't even need any USB device. So did I read
> correctly? Does this work out of the box?
I had no problems using two PS/2 keyboards with ruby (along with an RS-232 
serial mouse and a USB mouse). In fact, even without ruby, Linux seems to 
work fine with a PS/2 keyboard plugged into the mouse port.

faketty-0.04 w/ fedora rawhide 2.4.16

[Frederick W. K. <fko...@co...>]

Hi,

  Was testing compiling faketty-0.04 with fedora development kernel
(from kernel-2.6.14-1.1657_FC5.src.rpm) and found some problems with
class_device_create calls.  Attached is a small diff w/ the lines I
changed to produce a module that appears to work.  Apologies if this is
not formated in a standard way, etc.

Frederick Koehler

Re: 2 PS/2 keyboards possible?

[Hugo V. <hvw...@ya...>]

--- "Friedrich W. H. Kossebau"
<Fri...@ko...> wrote:

<snip>

> Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to
> the port usually given to 
> a PS/2 mouse? 

Since no keyboard advances are possible since IBM made
their Model M keyboard, having reached perfection, I
have 2 of them from 1989 plugged into the keyboard
outlet and into the mouse outlet.

Then 2 optical mice into 2 USB ports.

This works with either Ruby or Faketty. But Faketty
beats Ruby hands down because textmode is so much
better on the AGP screen.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: multiXnest

[Helge H. <hel...@ai...>]

Aivils Stoss wrote:

>On Trešdiena, 9. Novembris 2005 13:38, Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
>  
>
>>Helge Hafting wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Helge Hafting wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Well, ordinary x.org (from debian and several others) is capable of
>>>using several pointers and keyboards.  (One pointer+kbd per seat.)
>>>That's why I asked - I already run such a setup. :-)
>>>      
>>>
>>That's the point. The x.org was modified to allow multiseat. But this is
>>a hack. The whole thing is made so that just one instance of the server
>>is controlling all the hardware. The right way to do it, would be
>>implement something like RAC into the kernel.
>>    
>>
>
>Yep. That Debian modification is not acepted by X men. It is nonpro solution
>as all as i provide. I think working state is a lucky case more than 
>regularity, even so many peoples use it.
>  
>
Hm.  Do those "X-men" have a long-term plan for a better
solution than the working one they don't like?

Helge Hafting

Re: 2 PS/2 keyboards possible?

[Helge H. <hel...@ai...>]

Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I recently started* my ambitions to set up a multiuser terminal, too, reusing 
>a bunch of old computers, graphic cards, and whatever, hoping that at least 
>some of the hardware got working driver :)
>
>Reading through all the documentation I stumbled over 
>http://www.ltn.lv/~aivils/eng-hw.html and wondered: 
>Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to the port usually given to 
>a PS/2 mouse? That would be great, for a two user setup with some serial card 
>plugged in one wouldn't even need any USB device. So did I read correctly? 
>Does this work out of the box?
>  
>
This works very well - you just described my setup.  Well, I used
to have two serial mice - one broke so I replaced it with USB.
Two ps/2 keyboards are trivial. If you get any trouble to sort out,
then it will likely be uncooperative video cards. 

As for "working out of the box", you have to set up your xorg.conf files
carefully.

Helge Hafting

Re: 2 PS/2 keyboards possible?

[Zoltan B. <zb...@fr...>]

Friedrich W. H. Kossebau =EDrta:
> Hello,
>=20
> I recently started* my ambitions to set up a multiuser terminal, too, r=
eusing=20
> a bunch of old computers, graphic cards, and whatever, hoping that at l=
east=20
> some of the hardware got working driver :)
>=20
> Reading through all the documentation I stumbled over=20
> http://www.ltn.lv/~aivils/eng-hw.html and wondered:=20
> Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to the port usually gi=
ven to=20
> a PS/2 mouse? That would be great, for a two user setup with some seria=
l card=20
> plugged in one wouldn't even need any USB device. So did I read correct=
ly?=20
> Does this work out of the box?

With 2.6.x kernels it works out of the box.

Although there are mainboards that handle this as an
error condition and stop booting waiting for you to
press F1. Booting continues after normally.

Best regards,
Zolt=E1n B=F6sz=F6rm=E9nyi

2 PS/2 keyboards possible?

[Friedrich W. H. K. <Fri...@ko...>]

Hello,

I recently started* my ambitions to set up a multiuser terminal, too, reusing 
a bunch of old computers, graphic cards, and whatever, hoping that at least 
some of the hardware got working driver :)

Reading through all the documentation I stumbled over 
http://www.ltn.lv/~aivils/eng-hw.html and wondered: 
Is it really possible to connect a PS/2 keyboard to the port usually given to 
a PS/2 mouse? That would be great, for a two user setup with some serial card 
plugged in one wouldn't even need any USB device. So did I read correctly? 
Does this work out of the box?

* Stopped at the moment at rebuilding different xorg source rpms for my SUSE 
10.0 which all tend to fail at the end, even unpatched #/

Regards
Friedrich

Re: multiXnest

[Aivils S. <ai...@un...>]

On Tre=F0diena, 9. Novembris 2005 13:38, Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
> Helge Hafting wrote:
> > Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
> >> Helge Hafting wrote:
> >
> > Well, ordinary x.org (from debian and several others) is capable of
> > using several pointers and keyboards.  (One pointer+kbd per seat.)
> > That's why I asked - I already run such a setup. :-)
>
> That's the point. The x.org was modified to allow multiseat. But this is
> a hack. The whole thing is made so that just one instance of the server
> is controlling all the hardware. The right way to do it, would be
> implement something like RAC into the kernel.

Yep. That Debian modification is not acepted by X men. It is nonpro solution
as all as i provide. I think working state is a lucky case more than=20
regularity, even so many peoples use it.

> >> A module called RAC (Resource Access Control) prevents conflicts
> >> beetween the video cards, allowing a server with several cards from
> >> different manufacturers to be used.
> >
> > Now this may be interesting, plain xorg sometimes struggle with this.
> > I.e. restarting one of my xorg servers blanks the other display, so I
> > have to resize it (ctrl+keyboad+) to get it back.  Easy for me, confuses
> > my users.  RAC avoids such problems?
>
> Yes. But to take advantage of RAC, you have to run an X server with
> Xinerama. And, on top of that X server, run multiXnest.
>
> > Can all of the users use accelerated 3D at the same time too, like they
> > can with a xorg setup?  (Well, with some xorg setups - not all cards wi=
ll
> > cooperate nicely. But some do. Children tend to want to play the same
> > game, so a setup where not _all_ heads have the same fetures won't do.)
>
> Xnest lacks accelerated 3d support. I guess it could be implemented thoug=
h.

Best way of course is N pointers and N focus windows of X server, but
here is an authorisation troubles.
At least nvidia runs accelerated GLX on both heads of one videocard.

Aivils

Re: multiXnest

[Ander C. de O. <ac...@in...>]

Helge Hafting wrote:
> Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote: 
>> Helge Hafting wrote:
> 
> Well, ordinary x.org (from debian and several others) is capable of
> using several pointers and keyboards.  (One pointer+kbd per seat.)
> That's why I asked - I already run such a setup. :-)
That's the point. The x.org was modified to allow multiseat. But this is 
a hack. The whole thing is made so that just one instance of the server 
is controlling all the hardware. The right way to do it, would be 
implement something like RAC into the kernel.

>> A module called RAC (Resource Access Control) prevents conflicts 
>> beetween the video cards, allowing a server with several cards from 
>> different manufacturers to be used.
> 
> 
> Now this may be interesting, plain xorg sometimes struggle with this.
> I.e. restarting one of my xorg servers blanks the other display, so I
> have to resize it (ctrl+keyboad+) to get it back.  Easy for me, confuses
> my users.  RAC avoids such problems?
Yes. But to take advantage of RAC, you have to run an X server with 
Xinerama. And, on top of that X server, run multiXnest.


> Can all of the users use accelerated 3D at the same time too, like they can
> with a xorg setup?  (Well, with some xorg setups - not all cards will
> cooperate nicely. But some do. Children tend to want to play the same
> game, so a setup where not _all_ heads have the same fetures won't do.)
Xnest lacks accelerated 3d support. I guess it could be implemented though.

Ander

Re: multiXnest

[Helge H. <hel...@ai...>]

Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:

> Helge Hafting wrote:
>
>> Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
>
> >
>
>>> We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
>>> solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input 
>>> from
>>> the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
>>> card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server. 
>>
>>
>> Just curious: what does this achieve, that you can't already achieve
>> with a non-nested xserver that reads input from evdev?
>
>
> The XFree86/Xorg server is able to run using several video cards but 
> with only one pointer/keyboard. 

Well, ordinary x.org (from debian and several others) is capable of
using several pointers and keyboards.  (One pointer+kbd per seat.)
That's why I asked - I already run such a setup. :-)

> A module called RAC (Resource Access Control) prevents conflicts 
> beetween the video cards, allowing a server with several cards from 
> different manufacturers to be used.

Now this may be interesting, plain xorg sometimes struggle with this.
I.e. restarting one of my xorg servers blanks the other display, so I
have to resize it (ctrl+keyboad+) to get it back.  Easy for me, confuses
my users.  RAC avoids such problems?

>
> Using the the multiXnest server, we can take advantage o the 
> XFree86/Xorg RAC in a multiseat environment. Today, we have three 
> different hardware configurations stable:
>
> - 4 seats with 1 Radeon Dual 7000/VE AGP + 1 Radeon Dual 7000/VE PCI
> - 4 seats with 1 Rage 128 + 3 Rage XL
> - 4 seats with 4 SiS 315
>
> It should work with dual nvidias and any other combination that works 
> with an ordnary xinerama x server configuration.

Can all of the users use accelerated 3D at the same time too, like they can
with a xorg setup?  (Well, with some xorg setups - not all cards will
cooperate nicely. But some do. Children tend to want to play the same
game, so a setup where not _all_ heads have the same fetures won't do.)

Helge Hafting

Re: multiXnest

[Ander C. de O. <an...@c3...>]

Helge Hafting wrote:
> Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
 >
>> We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
>> solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input from
>> the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
>> card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server. 
> 
> Just curious: what does this achieve, that you can't already achieve
> with a non-nested xserver that reads input from evdev?

The XFree86/Xorg server is able to run using several video cards but 
with only one pointer/keyboard. A module called RAC (Resource Access 
Control) prevents conflicts beetween the video cards, allowing a server 
with several cards from different manufacturers to be used.

Using the the multiXnest server, we can take advantage o the 
XFree86/Xorg RAC in a multiseat environment. Today, we have three 
different hardware configurations stable:

- 4 seats with 1 Radeon Dual 7000/VE AGP + 1 Radeon Dual 7000/VE PCI
- 4 seats with 1 Rage 128 + 3 Rage XL
- 4 seats with 4 SiS 315

It should work with dual nvidias and any other combination that works 
with an ordnary xinerama x server configuration.

Ander
C3SL

Re: multiXnest

[Aivils S. <ai...@un...>]

On Piektdiena, 4. Novembris 2005 21:36, Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
> solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input from
> the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
> card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server.
>
> For the last weeks, we've been working to make this usable.
>
> A pre-compiled binary can be download from
> http://www.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiterminal/multiXnest .
>
> The patch include 7 new command line options to the orginal Xnest server:
>
> -kbd file              evdev file to read keyboard events
> -ptr file              evdev file to read pointer events
> -xkb-rules string      specify the XKB rules
> -xkb-layout string     specify the XKB layout
> -xkb-model string      specify the XKB model
> -xkb-variant string    specify the XKB variant
> -xkb-options string    specify the XKB options
>
> Know issues:
> - the keyboard mapping is incomplete,
> - keyboard leds don't work
> - multiXnest consumes more CPU than it should
>
> We use the multiXnest-wrapper script to start the X server because gdm
> always passes a vt option in the command line. This script also
> introduces an option to pass the .Xauthority file to use.

You can compare code :) Main difference - i use runtime modification.
Share half of your desktop right now. Xnest still is without cursor :(

Xnest :2 uses /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/X2-config.keyboard . May be -xkb-*
command line options became unnecessary, if this file is properly
configured.

Issues: same as above.

Aivils Stoss

Re: multiXnest

[Aivils S. <ai...@un...>]

On Otrdiena, 8. Novembris 2005 14:30, Helge Hafting wrote:
> Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
> > solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input from
> > the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
> > card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server.
>
> Just curious: what does this achieve, that you can't already achieve
> with a non-nested xserver that reads input from evdev?

Support of multihead video cards like matrox g550 ;o)

Aivils

Re: Radeon, Debian Xorg, & evdev

[Helge H. <hel...@ai...>]

Matt Keenan wrote:

> I have a set up with debian sarge box with Xorg, 1 radeon 7000 agp and 
> 2 radeon 7000 pci, and set up to use evdev. I can run Xinerama ok, but 
> trying to run three independant X's just hangs the machine hard (no 
> caps lock, no sysrq, no ping). I think I might have to resort to 
> debugging the radeon driver :( I havent compiled in faketty / hijacled 
> because I dont need consoles on the other screens. evdev works a 
> treat! Any suggestions?

Are all your radeons initialized by video bios?
If not, use the "initprimary" option for the xservers running
on the two noninitialized ones.  (Probably the pci ones, assuming your
pc boot using the AGP device.

Also, make sure you get the BusID and Isolatedevice stuff right
for all the xservers - otherwise, it will indeed hang.

Try bringing up xservers one at a time.  Get two simultaneous ones
running before you try for three.  And try all permutations of starting
order - xserver bugs (or design faults) means that the starting/stopping
order matter sometimes. 

Disable DRI/DRM (3D graphichs)  for all servers while
experimenting. Yes, it may work, but it may
hang the machine too.  Once you get your three 2D desktops going, try
enabling the 3D stuff again.  It may work fine, but it is best to keep
another source of trouble away while experimenting.

Finally, if you debug the radeon driver - great!  Look for mistakes
where the xserver use legacy vga io ports (should really never ever happen
in order to be multiseat-compatible) and also mistakes where the
xserver accesses the wrong card.  You have several of the same type,
the driver writer may not have anticipated the case where an xserver use
only the third card, for example.

Helge Hafting

Re: multiXnest

[Helge H. <hel...@ai...>]

Ander Conselvan de Oliveira wrote:

> Hello,
>
> We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
> solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input from
> the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
> card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server.

Just curious: what does this achieve, that you can't already achieve
with a non-nested xserver that reads input from evdev?

Helge Hafting

multiXnest

[Ander C. de O. <ac...@in...>]

Hello,

We're writing to annouce a new multiseat solution: multiXnest. This
solution is based on a modified Xnest server which reads it's input from
the kernel event interface. This solution should work with any video
card supported by the Xorg/Xfree86 X server.

For the last weeks, we've been working to make this usable.

A pre-compiled binary can be download from
http://www.c3sl.ufpr.br/multiterminal/multiXnest .

The patch include 7 new command line options to the orginal Xnest server:

-kbd file              evdev file to read keyboard events
-ptr file              evdev file to read pointer events
-xkb-rules string      specify the XKB rules
-xkb-layout string     specify the XKB layout
-xkb-model string      specify the XKB model
-xkb-variant string    specify the XKB variant
-xkb-options string    specify the XKB options

Know issues:
- the keyboard mapping is incomplete,
- keyboard leds don't work
- multiXnest consumes more CPU than it should

We use the multiXnest-wrapper script to start the X server because gdm
always passes a vt option in the command line. This script also=20
introduces an option to pass the .Xauthority file to use.

A sample gdm config file looks like this:
[...]

[servers]
0=3DHardware
1=3DMonitor0
2=3DMonitor1

[server-Hardware]
name=3DHardware
command=3D/usr/X11R6/bin/X
handled=3Dfalse
flexible=3Dfalse

[server-Monitor0]
name=3DMonitor0
command=3D/root/multiXnest-wrapper -display :0.0 -xauthority \=20
/var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth
-geometry 1024x768+0+0 -kbd /dev/input/kbd0ev -ptr /dev/input/mouse0ev
-dpi 92
handled=3Dtrue
flexible=3Dfalse

[server-Monitor1]
name=3DMonitor0
command=3D/root/multiXnest-wrapper -display :0.1 -xauthority \=20
/var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth
-geometry 1024x768+0+0 -kbd /dev/input/kbd0ev -ptr /dev/input/mouse0ev
-dpi 92
handled=3Dtrue
flexible=3Dfalse

The X server is configured with one layout with all the screens and
without Xinerama.


Ander Conselvan de Oliveira
Centro de Computa=E7=E3o Cient=EDfica e Software Livre - C3SL	  www.c3sl.=
ufpr.br

Radeon, Debian Xorg, & evdev

[Matt K. <tan...@gm...>]

I have a set up with debian sarge box with Xorg, 1 radeon 7000 agp and 2 
radeon 7000 pci, and set up to use evdev. I can run Xinerama ok, but 
trying to run three independant X's just hangs the machine hard (no caps 
lock, no sysrq, no ping). I think I might have to resort to debugging 
the radeon driver :( I havent compiled in faketty / hijacled because I 
dont need consoles on the other screens. evdev works a treat! Any 
suggestions?

Matt

Re: Ruby redux 2.6.14

[Aivils S. <ai...@un...>]

On Ceturtdiena, 3. Novembris 2005 16:25, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> --- Aivils Stoss <ai...@un...> wrote:
> > On Tre=F0diena, 2. Novembris 2005 14:37, Hugo
> >
> > Vanwoerkom wrote:
> > > > I think , i will add 2nd,3rd... pointer for X
> > > > server. Anyway
> > > > peoples don't use text mode console.
> > >
> > > There is no life without a textmode console.
> > > But I understand where you are coming from...
> >
> > Wow, wow, wow! Is working in the Linus tree. I think
> > is not so hard rewrite DirectFB or svgalib for usage
> > of /dev/input/eventXX instead of ttyXX and userspace
> > console is ready.
>
> For mortal humans? But I will look into it. Aspiring
> to be like, who was that again?

In these days beter than looking into code is public
opinion poll. Otherwise You can make a junk.

>
> Only silly emergency output stay
>
> > in kernel. As You post previosly "noone will do it".
> >
> > Who knows, may be shortest way is linux-ruby finish
> > and merge?
> >
> > Aivils Stoss
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's
> > Geronimo App Server. Download
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv
> > or your very own
> > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play:
> > http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linuxconsole-dev mailing list
> > Lin...@li...
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linuxconsole-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com