OK, I decided that I like the look, layout and features of the currently Alpha build of KeePass Pro / 2.02 that I decided to replace the current 1.07 PortableApps version (made from a Portable KeePass 1.06 install followed by copying over requisite files from a local 1.07 install) and have successfully done so. It is actually not that hard, once you study the Portable structure, but I want to verify - seeing as I have 2.02 both installed locally on my HD as well as copied over to the Key drive, is there anything registry related that might be occurring that I am not aware of (having read the documentation, and especially the 2.x specific parts, I think that is a no, seeing as it is all XML based, but I wanted to be sure) other than the file type association? Since I use the portable apps and have a single database, file type association should not get in my way as I use the PortableApps menu to load KP, and have it set to automatically open last used database. However, I wanted to make sure nothing else was going on.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Actually, the way Portable Apps works is that there is a launcher app, in this case called KeePass Portable, which is simply an executable that points to the actual KeePass.exe app itself - which is located in a subdirectory called, appropriately, \app\ - from there KeePass is loaded as if you were loading the executable from a shortcut on your hard drive, or whatever. I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am guessing that using ver 2.0, you'll need to disable the global config file so it looks for it locally only (meaning on the key drive every time) seeing as I first installed it on my computer system. Also, you are partially correct - it is not the Portable Apps that needs to support it, but simply (when running form a key drive) that whatever computer I plug it into needs to have .NET installed.
Portable Apps is an ingenious solution in and of itself because all the apps that it has run independently from the interface - the interface is simply a nice way of organizing what you have on the key drive, and, truly, the programs can be loaded directly by navigating to the appropriate folder on the key drive and running the executable - it was how I was able to save *some* of my data when my key drive was eaten by a USB 2.0 PCI card that I installed in my computer that keeps giving me error upon error. I simply made a copy of the entire Key drives contents to my local HD in a subdirectory called USB key drive, and then navigated to the \Portable apps\KeePass\app folder and ran the KeePass executable and restored a 6 month old backup of the database I had laying around.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Nothing is dead, KeePass 1.x is still running and being developed. V2 is also alive and kicking because .NET is built into Vista and an automatic download on XP, plus there are *nix versions available.
cheers, Paul
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
"1.x still running" BUT up 2 now it doesn't incorporate no any new features nor even any interface design flaws corrections (like strange hardcoded behavior while opening an URLs for example).
And a .NET... It mean that when I wanna sometime use V2 on a number of different xNIX/Linux servers, every with an "empty" X (with TWM/xTerm only -- for WineCons etc.), I shall drop on my Flash-drive a bunch of MONO tarballs for every platform ALSO and install them everywhere? I mourn over orgy of a RAD concepts...
So "Nothing is dead" can b rephrased like this:
"Portable" -- dead... Well, well... stalled, frozen, [put-your-word] -- ok?
"MultiOS" -- like previous (follows "Portable")
but
"Pass Organiser" -- still alive
--
Vit.Rom.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The short answer is, anything that depends on .NET is definitely not considered a portable app as hardly any PCs in the wild will have the .NET framework installed. .NET is only bundled with Windows Vista and Windows Server 2003. All other Windows operating systems require a user with administrative rights to manually download and install it.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Most other Windows OSs in the wild also have users running with full admin privileges (in the wild - not corporate machines, but private, home and small business / home office machines) - and those with the know how of running lua for their users will also know how to gain admin access to install .NET as needed.
I am seeing more and more programs for Windows OSs that require .NET to be installed - one of the first was the MP3 tag software that i use, MP3 Tag-it. I personally had .NET on my XP box starting with the Beta 1, and it is not inconceivable that many other machines out there, particularly those running XP, will have it by now. I was not able to see any data at the counter, but the Market share was just the OS estimated market share - and yes, a machine bought brand new with nothing but traditional apps would only have a 1/20 chance (roughly) of having .NET installed.
However, end users will be installing it as they need it - and I am pretty sure that .NET has pervaded the end user environment a lot more than 5.41%.
However, your analysis that anything *requiring* .NET should not be considered a true Portable App is spot on. Since I haven't encountered a PC in the wild that I have supported that did not have .NET installed, I am safe (thus far) to use KeePass 2.x as a substitute for the 1.07 Portable version. I prefer the 2.0x version as it has more features, works better, and seems to be (subjectively) faster.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I'm running Keepass 1.x and I love it, other than the fact that I can't sync the database at work, with the one at home, with the one that I with all good intentions keep on a usb key for everywhere.
I am reluctant to use the 2.x version, because I can't guarantee that the computer I need to use will have the .NET framework installed, which would leave me completely without my passwords. Keeping both versions still leaves me with the sync problem between 1.x and 2.x.
Will there ever be a sync method for 1.x? I understand it hasn't been done yet, and given how long this has been out, I'm thinking it probably won't ever come out, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Yeah, when I'm talking in the wild, I'm talking corporate office PCs, libraries, net cafes, hotel office centers, university computer labs, etc, etc. None of those are likely to have .NET installed... and you won't be able to install it. And most PCs of non-geeks I know don't have .NET either. Only PCs owned by geeks are likely to have .NET. Let me explain...
Normal people have apps like an office suite, AOL, Adobe Album, Picasa, Google Desktop, some antivirus software, some games, a software DVD player, a CD burner, things like that. None of this 'normal' software requires .NET, nor it it likely to in the future. The simple fact is that very few apps require .NET, so most people don't have the framework installed (chicken, egg). It's similar to the Java framework. Except there are several *very* popular Java apps out there... like Azureus, #3 on SourceForge with 150 million downloads. Or OpenOffice.org (which is partially Java-based). No .NET apps come close to that kind of penetration. So, the framework is unlikely to be installed.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Oh, I know... but it depends on the company. Some companies are serious Microsoft shops and will probably have 1.1 and 2.0 installed (not 3.0... too new for corporate). Most shops may have one or the other. I think my old company (corporate bank) has 1.1 installed but not 2.0 across tens of thousands of desktops. It has some penetration, but it's much less than Microsoft wants developers to believe.
V1 will sync, but it is a manual process.
1. Start with a master database.
2. Copy the database and use it elsewhere.
To sync te 2 databases.
1. Open the master copy.
2. Import the other database and select the appropriate action (overwrite, ignore, merge).
The master database will now have all passwords and you can copy it for use elsewhere. You could also export a sub folder for use at work, or on a client site etc.
The sync is performed by comparing the KeePass entry UUID and date time stamp. You can view the UUID by selecting it in the columns view.
cheers, Paul
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer. I'm not using 2.x, so any info on that is not helpful. A sync, as I'm using it, would be a combination of two or more databases. Is this possible, or will it ever be possible, under 1.x? If I understand your response, the answer is no, but I'm not sure.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
OK, I decided that I like the look, layout and features of the currently Alpha build of KeePass Pro / 2.02 that I decided to replace the current 1.07 PortableApps version (made from a Portable KeePass 1.06 install followed by copying over requisite files from a local 1.07 install) and have successfully done so. It is actually not that hard, once you study the Portable structure, but I want to verify - seeing as I have 2.02 both installed locally on my HD as well as copied over to the Key drive, is there anything registry related that might be occurring that I am not aware of (having read the documentation, and especially the 2.x specific parts, I think that is a no, seeing as it is all XML based, but I wanted to be sure) other than the file type association? Since I use the portable apps and have a single database, file type association should not get in my way as I use the PortableApps menu to load KP, and have it set to automatically open last used database. However, I wanted to make sure nothing else was going on.
KeePass 2 requires .NET installed. You need to be sure portable apps support .NET.
cheers, Paul
Actually, the way Portable Apps works is that there is a launcher app, in this case called KeePass Portable, which is simply an executable that points to the actual KeePass.exe app itself - which is located in a subdirectory called, appropriately, \app\ - from there KeePass is loaded as if you were loading the executable from a shortcut on your hard drive, or whatever. I have been doing a lot of reading, and I am guessing that using ver 2.0, you'll need to disable the global config file so it looks for it locally only (meaning on the key drive every time) seeing as I first installed it on my computer system. Also, you are partially correct - it is not the Portable Apps that needs to support it, but simply (when running form a key drive) that whatever computer I plug it into needs to have .NET installed.
Portable Apps is an ingenious solution in and of itself because all the apps that it has run independently from the interface - the interface is simply a nice way of organizing what you have on the key drive, and, truly, the programs can be loaded directly by navigating to the appropriate folder on the key drive and running the executable - it was how I was able to save *some* of my data when my key drive was eaten by a USB 2.0 PCI card that I installed in my computer that keeps giving me error upon error. I simply made a copy of the entire Key drives contents to my local HD in a subdirectory called USB key drive, and then navigated to the \Portable apps\KeePass\app folder and ran the KeePass executable and restored a 6 month old backup of the database I had laying around.
While prepared to fill bugrep just seen in forum:
[q]KeePass 2 requires .NET installed[/q]
Damn! What a f..d requirements?! What a bullshit?! %-\
Also according that, hm-m... "strange" req. -- is there any plans to make xNIX versions and [b]how[/b] in such case? With MONO? Portable?!?
So shall I and anyone else note to self that "Portable MultiOS Password Organiser" project are dead?
Nothing is dead, KeePass 1.x is still running and being developed. V2 is also alive and kicking because .NET is built into Vista and an automatic download on XP, plus there are *nix versions available.
cheers, Paul
"1.x still running" BUT up 2 now it doesn't incorporate no any new features nor even any interface design flaws corrections (like strange hardcoded behavior while opening an URLs for example).
And a .NET... It mean that when I wanna sometime use V2 on a number of different xNIX/Linux servers, every with an "empty" X (with TWM/xTerm only -- for WineCons etc.), I shall drop on my Flash-drive a bunch of MONO tarballs for every platform ALSO and install them everywhere? I mourn over orgy of a RAD concepts...
So "Nothing is dead" can b rephrased like this:
"Portable" -- dead... Well, well... stalled, frozen, [put-your-word] -- ok?
"MultiOS" -- like previous (follows "Portable")
but
"Pass Organiser" -- still alive
--
Vit.Rom.
I actually did an analysis of the .NET framework in connection with PortableApps.com and posted the findings here:
http://johnhaller.com/jh/useful_stuff/dotnet_portable_apps/
The short answer is, anything that depends on .NET is definitely not considered a portable app as hardly any PCs in the wild will have the .NET framework installed. .NET is only bundled with Windows Vista and Windows Server 2003. All other Windows operating systems require a user with administrative rights to manually download and install it.
Most other Windows OSs in the wild also have users running with full admin privileges (in the wild - not corporate machines, but private, home and small business / home office machines) - and those with the know how of running lua for their users will also know how to gain admin access to install .NET as needed.
I am seeing more and more programs for Windows OSs that require .NET to be installed - one of the first was the MP3 tag software that i use, MP3 Tag-it. I personally had .NET on my XP box starting with the Beta 1, and it is not inconceivable that many other machines out there, particularly those running XP, will have it by now. I was not able to see any data at the counter, but the Market share was just the OS estimated market share - and yes, a machine bought brand new with nothing but traditional apps would only have a 1/20 chance (roughly) of having .NET installed.
However, end users will be installing it as they need it - and I am pretty sure that .NET has pervaded the end user environment a lot more than 5.41%.
However, your analysis that anything *requiring* .NET should not be considered a true Portable App is spot on. Since I haven't encountered a PC in the wild that I have supported that did not have .NET installed, I am safe (thus far) to use KeePass 2.x as a substitute for the 1.07 Portable version. I prefer the 2.0x version as it has more features, works better, and seems to be (subjectively) faster.
I'm running Keepass 1.x and I love it, other than the fact that I can't sync the database at work, with the one at home, with the one that I with all good intentions keep on a usb key for everywhere.
I am reluctant to use the 2.x version, because I can't guarantee that the computer I need to use will have the .NET framework installed, which would leave me completely without my passwords. Keeping both versions still leaves me with the sync problem between 1.x and 2.x.
Will there ever be a sync method for 1.x? I understand it hasn't been done yet, and given how long this has been out, I'm thinking it probably won't ever come out, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Yeah, when I'm talking in the wild, I'm talking corporate office PCs, libraries, net cafes, hotel office centers, university computer labs, etc, etc. None of those are likely to have .NET installed... and you won't be able to install it. And most PCs of non-geeks I know don't have .NET either. Only PCs owned by geeks are likely to have .NET. Let me explain...
Normal people have apps like an office suite, AOL, Adobe Album, Picasa, Google Desktop, some antivirus software, some games, a software DVD player, a CD burner, things like that. None of this 'normal' software requires .NET, nor it it likely to in the future. The simple fact is that very few apps require .NET, so most people don't have the framework installed (chicken, egg). It's similar to the Java framework. Except there are several *very* popular Java apps out there... like Azureus, #3 on SourceForge with 150 million downloads. Or OpenOffice.org (which is partially Java-based). No .NET apps come close to that kind of penetration. So, the framework is unlikely to be installed.
And that is one of the reasons why Dominik has decided not to abandon the 1.x line, which is .NET independent.
But I think you would be surprised at the .NET corporate infestation....
Oh, I know... but it depends on the company. Some companies are serious Microsoft shops and will probably have 1.1 and 2.0 installed (not 3.0... too new for corporate). Most shops may have one or the other. I think my old company (corporate bank) has 1.1 installed but not 2.0 across tens of thousands of desktops. It has some penetration, but it's much less than Microsoft wants developers to believe.
And for the other folks out there who keep insisting it's automatically installed on Windows XP or 2000, I added a screenshot to the article:
http://johnhaller.com/jh/useful_stuff/dotnet_portable_apps/dotnet_on_windows_update/
I also ran a test as someone thought that perhaps the newer Windows XP SP2 install disks had .NET bundled on them. I've confirmed that they do not.
V1 will sync, but it is a manual process.
1. Start with a master database.
2. Copy the database and use it elsewhere.
To sync te 2 databases.
1. Open the master copy.
2. Import the other database and select the appropriate action (overwrite, ignore, merge).
The master database will now have all passwords and you can copy it for use elsewhere. You could also export a sub folder for use at work, or on a client site etc.
The sync is performed by comparing the KeePass entry UUID and date time stamp. You can view the UUID by selecting it in the columns view.
cheers, Paul
I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer. I'm not using 2.x, so any info on that is not helpful. A sync, as I'm using it, would be a combination of two or more databases. Is this possible, or will it ever be possible, under 1.x? If I understand your response, the answer is no, but I'm not sure.
My answer is Yes. Follow the instructions with a test database.
cheers, Paul
Ok, I was thrown by the "te 2 databases" I thought that was some reference to version 2.x.
the 2 databases.
Don't you hate typos?
cheers, Paul