Re: [Jython-dev] Jython and native java merged with simplicity

[Joseph G. <oc...@se...>]

Just a quick uneducated question:

I don't suppose there's anyway to use the java machinery by default but kick
in the full flexibility of python on an as-needed basis?  The reason I ask
is that I recall (over 10 years ago) one of the main Smalltalk implementers
(Douglas Engelbart?) giving a great talk on his Smalltalk.  They apparently
did just that: provided the illusion of a full object model while using raw
ints (etc.) under the covers.  According to his talk, when you really got
into the nitty-gritty, that emulation (which appeared hard on the surface)
was not a major challenge; instead, some unexpected stuff became hard!

So, I don't know how hard it is to emulate the full object model while
cheating behind the scenes, but it may be worth trying based on some decade
old Smalltalk experience.  :-)

Just a thought,

= Joe =


john coppola wrote:

> Yes, something of this nature, but not quite like that
> since several layers of code must still be traversed
> before getting to the meat and potatoes slowing it
> down.
>
> It is important that this interface be transparent
> (like a ghost) since that is largely the beauty of it.
>
> For demonstration purposes I'm embedding the feature
> in directly into the PyInstance.  I define a new
> private method called setSkeleton in PyInstance.java.
>
> I add a bit of code in __setattr__ and __findattr__
> which will search the skeleton instance first before
> self.  When setting the attribute I check to see if it
> is a "basis type" (i.e. float int string).  If it is
> not I must check that object to see if it has a
> skeleton.  If so, set the ghost attribute with the
> ob's skeleton.
>
> I include an extra optional argument to init args
> called __skeleton__.  If it's None I do nothing, if it
> is defined, I set the PyInstance's skeleton class
> before we assign attributes to the instance.  This way
> the skeleton will automatically be initialized since
> __setattr__ and __findattr__ have been slightly
> modified.
>
> What is important about the nature of ghosting is that
> information is stored in both the java native skeleton
> and the real PyObject.  The same information in two
> places.  Somewhat of an OO no no.  But I am willing to
> make this trade off to get 500x performance boost.
> Since all it requires is a bit a maintenance work in
> well tucked away places.
>
> This seems funny, and alot of work, but really isn't.
> Once you see the speed boost obtained from doing bulk
> processing you may deem this feature worthwhile.
>
> It does retain a great deal of python flexibility.
> Provided a small set of attributes are not deleted.
> That should throw an exception.
>
> thanks for your comments. have been very helpful.
> -john
>
> --- Samuele Pedroni <pe...@in...> wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > I'm still a bit confused, how far is this (up to
> > PyObject subclassing and
> > other not directly related issues) from what you
> > would like?
> >
> > <jc.py>
> >
> > import new
> >
> > class X:
> >   def __init__(self,c):
> >     self.c = c
> >
> >   def add(self,a,b):
> >       return self.c*(a+b)
> >
> >   def mul(self,a,b):
> >       return self.c*a*b
> >
> > x=X(2)
> > print repr(x.__class__)
> > print X.add
> > print X.mul
> > print x.add(1,2)
> > print x.mul(3,2)
> >
> > def jmerge(cls,jskel):
> >   new_cls =
> > new.classobj(cls.__name__,(jskel,cls),{})
> >   new_cls.__module__ = cls.__module__
> >   return new_cls
> >
> > import Xj
> >
> > X=jmerge(X,Xj)
> > x=X(2)
> > print repr(x.__class__)
> > print X.add
> > print X.mul
> > print x.add(1,2)
> > print x.mul(3,2)
> >
> > print x.describe()
> >
> > </jc.py>
> >
> > Output:
> > <class __main__.X at 5783932>
> > <unbound method X.add>
> > <unbound method X.mul>
> > 6
> > 12
> > <class __main__.X at 3462044>
> > <java function add at 3199804>
> > <unbound method X.mul>
> > 6
> > 12
> > Xj(c=2)
> >
> >
> > Consider, Xj is the following java class:
> >
> >
> > public class Xj {
> >
> >  public int c;
> >
> >  public int add(int a,int b) {
> >    return c*(a+b);
> >  }
> >
> >
> >  public String describe() {
> >    return "Xj(c="+c+")";
> >  }
> >
> > }
> >
> >
> >
> > regards, Samuele Pedroni.
> >
>
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