Re: [Jython-users] Where best to find documentation?

[Kenneth M. <ken...@sb...>]

At the moment, I'd guess that Jython users are a (small) sub-group of 
Python hackers,
i.e. not users but rather the subgroup who both use and really enjoy 
playing with Python.
This is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that Jython went dormant 
for such a long time;
there's going to be a certain hesitancy about Jython until people 
believe it's here to stay.
I myself confess to using JRuby at the moment, though I'd (probably) 
prefer Jython, which
is why I'm looking at it :-).

IMHO, for Jython (or any Java scripting language) to work in the long 
term, it needs to satisfy
the fact that Java is in use in a more heavy-duty factory-line sort of 
environment than Python;
I think a much higher percentage of Java users just want to get the job 
done, as opposed to
a larger percentage of Pythonistas who also enjoy playing with tech. 
This makes sense--who'd
think that playing with tech was fun if you had to program Java all day?

To work with that sort of mind set, Jython needs several things.

1) It should be easy to set up and to start to do simple things with. So 
far, so good.

2) It needs to be really, really solid, both with respect to correctness 
and (to a useful level)
completeness in its interoperability with Java. I don't know what 
Jython's status is at this point.
Both Groovy (as of a few months ago) and Ruby (as of right now) have at 
least a couple
of major problems (though I do have a lot of admiration for both 
teams--they seem like
bright people.)

3) Here is the big one that will be the biggest stumbling block for most 
of these efforts; it needs
good documentation so that a person can start doing useful things 
immediately, and also be able to go
back to find the highly technical information they'll need as they start 
tacking more complex
problems.

For me, the biggest problem with Jython right now is the lack of a site 
I can go to that is kept
up to date and says, "here is the status of Jython, here is what it can 
do, here is what it can't do,
and here is everything you need to know about interoperating with Java".

I don't know about others, but my main interest in getting Python
or Ruby working with Java is to (finally) have a (half-)decent, true, 
crossplatform GUI platform
that I can write a decent high-level API around. To get more people 
interested in Jython
(assuming it's solid and complete enough right now to focus on this), 
perhaps illustrate Jython
by example by starting to develop a UI library on top of Swing, and 
documenting aspects of that?
This approach has these advantages:

    1) It can solve a real problem; writing Swing apps in Java is 
absurdly nasty, that's why all
    these GUI dev tools are needed.

    2) It's visually appealing, so you'll get eyeballs.

    3) It provides lots of scope for illustrating how to do things like 
subclass Java classes in Jython
    (if that's possible), define Java classes in Jython (if that's 
possible), etc.

Just a thought.


Hope this helps,
Ken



Neil Wallace wrote:
> Morning Greg, Kenneth,
>
> Am I write in thinking that we Jython users are mainly a sub-group of
> Python users?
> If so, I wonder what can be done to attract Java hackers over.
>
> Perhaps the wiki could occasionally diverger into two sections? Jython
> docs for Java guys & Jython docs for  Python Guys?
>
> Neil.
>
>