From: Joseph H A. <jh...@wo...> - 2006-06-06 16:30:08
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Matthew Miller <ma...@ma...> wrote: >I love joe, and I know I can change this myself in the dotfile, but whenever >I'm on a new system, it gets me every time. Probably because of some legacy >wordstar thing, the character "`" is mapped to "quote", for entering control >characters. Could this be changed to esc-` instead? This is the history of `: AEJ (sysadmin at WPI) mapped ` to control in TECO EMACS on the DECSYSTEM-20, because Ctrl-Q (the default) was used for XON/XOFF flow control of the serial terminals. Anyway, I'll consider it. Perhaps we should vote on it: Does anyone think ESC ` is bad? Certainly TeX users would be happier. Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start JOE... As far as ^_, ^^ and ^@ (^SPACE doesn't work for ^@?) I don't know what to do. Undo is very important. One possibility is to reuse ^P, ^N, ^F and ^B- I always use arrow keys. In JOE0.1.5, ^K- was undo and ^K+ was redo, but it's much nicer to have single key sequences for undo and redo. Joe |
From: Matthew M. <ma...@ma...> - 2006-06-06 16:39:50
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 11:43:30AM -0400, Joseph H Allen wrote: > This is the history of `: AEJ (sysadmin at WPI) mapped ` to control in TECO > EMACS on the DECSYSTEM-20, because Ctrl-Q (the default) was used for > XON/XOFF flow control of the serial terminals. Heh. -- Matthew Miller ma...@ma... <http://mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> |
From: Egmont K. <eg...@uh...> - 2006-06-06 16:51:29
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 11:43:30AM -0400, Joseph H Allen wrote: > Anyway, I'll consider it. Perhaps we should vote on it: Does anyone think > ESC ` is bad? Certainly TeX users would be happier. It would be fine for me, copy-paste would be easier (I use gnome-terminal, not xterm). > Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start JOE... Please don't do it... joe is a perfect choice for rescue systems and stuff where you just quickly start it. I hate applications which bother me with first time settings. And once you create such a first time preferences page, there's no way to limit the number of options asked here. And actually ESC ` vs. ` is IMHO not a very important question. On the other hand, a built-in user-friendly configuration dialog (where you can set key bindings as well as the default of some ^T ... settings) probably sounds to be a good idea. > As far as ^_, ^^ and ^@ (^SPACE doesn't work for ^@?) I don't know what to > do. Undo is very important. One possibility is to reuse ^P, ^N, ^F and ^B- > I always use arrow keys. I always use ^7 for undo and ^6 for redo. It works -- I have no idea why :) -- Egmont |
From: Sebastien K. <se...@ko...> - 2006-06-06 17:41:29
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 06:51:06PM +0200, Egmont Koblinger wrote: > > As far as ^_, ^^ and ^@ (^SPACE doesn't work for ^@?) I don't know wh= at to > > do. Undo is very important. One possibility is to reuse ^P, ^N, ^F = and ^B- > > I always use arrow keys. >=20 > I always use ^7 for undo and ^6 for redo. It works -- I have no idea wh= y :) Great! It's working here too. In fact, 6 and 7 are shifted on a french layout keyboard, ^6 is ^- and ^7 is ^=E8. --=20 Seb, autocuiseur |
From: <pat...@dt...> - 2006-06-06 16:51:57
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Joseph H Allen wrote: > Matthew Miller <ma...@ma...> wrote: > > >> I love joe, and I know I can change this myself in the dotfile, but whenever >> I'm on a new system, it gets me every time. Probably because of some legacy >> wordstar thing, the character "`" is mapped to "quote", for entering control >> characters. Could this be changed to esc-` instead? >> > > This is the history of `: AEJ (sysadmin at WPI) mapped ` to control in TECO > EMACS on the DECSYSTEM-20, because Ctrl-Q (the default) was used for > XON/XOFF flow control of the serial terminals. > > Anyway, I'll consider it. Perhaps we should vote on it: Does anyone think > ESC ` is bad? Certainly TeX users would be happier. > > Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start JOE... > > Please change it, or at least allow a preference. It's annoying to have to start vi every time I paste a script, because joe will ruin the backquotes. :) Bye, Pedro |
From: Josip R. <jo...@sr...> - 2006-06-06 21:47:46
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:50:52PM +0100, Pedro Timóteo wrote: > It's annoying to have to start vi every time I paste a script, because joe > will ruin the backquotes. :) You don't need to do that when pasting something with backticks, just use ^KR!cat (and then ^D to exit from cat, of course). -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. |
From: Matthew M. <ma...@ma...> - 2006-06-06 17:09:11
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:50:52PM +0100, Pedro Tim=F3teo wrote: > > Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start J= OE... > Please change it, or at least allow a preference. It's annoying to have= =20 > to start vi every time I paste a script, because joe will ruin the=20 > backquotes. :) Oh, there is a preference. Put this in your .joerc: quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars --=20 Matthew Miller ma...@ma... <http://mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> |
From: Dirk S. <sch...@do...> - 2006-06-06 17:49:55
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On Tuesday, 6. June 2006 19:09, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:50:52PM +0100, Pedro Tim=F3teo wrote: > > > Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start > > > JOE... > > > > Please change it, or at least allow a preference. It's annoying to have > > to start vi every time I paste a script, because joe will ruin the > > backquotes. :) > > Oh, there is a preference. Put this in your .joerc: > > quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars Yes, but it's annoying to do this on every machine and everytime an OS is=20 wiped out and replaced. My vote: Please change it. ^[ ` is much better than ^`, but how about ^[ ' (<Esc><singlequote>) and/or= =20 ^[ " (<Esc><doublequote>) ? Because, on keyboards where ` is a dead char, you need to type the ` twice = or=20 type a blank after it to use them as stand-alone characters and to trigger = a=20 joe-function. This is not needed with singlequote or doublequote. > About this, on non-english keyboard, it's sometime hard, or not possible = to > do some keys combinaisons. Control one's in particular. When using joe > within putty.exe (windows ssh client) with a french keyboard, I can not u= se > ^_, ^^ ("^" is a dead key in french) ^@ (@ is on a second Alt map called > AltGr key, sometime considered as Alt+Control) ^\ is the same. Under > linux, ^^, ^@ and ^\ are nearly unusable. Talking about that... I just made some quick tests (Linux, german keyboard= )=20 and found that the following do not work:=20 ^^ ^! ^" ^& ^/ ^' (=3D <Ctrl><single-quote>, not an accent) ^* ^? ^. ^+ The last two can be reached without using <Shift>.=20 But the following work (surprise, surprise): ^\ (=3D> quote8) (<AltGr> needed to reach "\") ^_ (=3D> undo) (<Shift> needed to reach "_") ^` (=3D> quote) <Shift> needed to reach "`" plus a blank or another "`" to= =20 trigger quote.) ^=C2=B4 and Esc-=C2=B4 give me a "bad key sequence".=20 Other combinations with Esc always work, as far as I tested. The following are dead-key characters: "^" (circumflex), "~" (tilde),=20 "=C2=B4" (accent right(?)) and "`" (accent left(?)).=20 I cannot see a systematic behaviour in this, does anybody know why it behav= es=20 like this? > French is not the only non-english keyboard, and I think many keyboard > mapping can cause problems. I think we should limit control with > non-letter combinaison. Or define more than one mapping for thoses with > one using Control+[Letter/digit] or Escape+[common key]. > > Is there a non-latin keyboard user here? Who are you working? I just saw Egmont's usage of ^7 and ^6. Right: ^7 causes undo, ^6 causes re= do,=20 even though they are not defined. When I try to define them as quote8, it i= s=20 ignored and they continue to work as undo and redo. Regards Dirk |
From: Dirk S. <sch...@do...> - 2006-06-06 18:15:42
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On Tuesday, 6. June 2006 19:52, Dirk Schenkewitz wrote: > On Tuesday, 6. June 2006 19:09, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:50:52PM +0100, Pedro Tim=F3teo wrote: > > > > Maybe a "preferences" script should be run the first time you start > > > > JOE... > > > > > > Please change it, or at least allow a preference. It's annoying to ha= ve > > > to start vi every time I paste a script, because joe will ruin the > > > backquotes. :) > > > > Oh, there is a preference. Put this in your .joerc: > > > > quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars > > Yes, but it's annoying to do this on every machine and everytime an OS is > wiped out and replaced. > > My vote: Please change it. > ^[ ` is much better than ^`, but how about ^[ ' (<Esc><singlequote>) and/= or > ^[ " (<Esc><doublequote>) ? Sorry, that should read: ^[ ` is much better than `, but how about ^[ ' (<Esc><singlequote>) and/or ^[ " (<Esc><doublequote>) ? > Because, on keyboards where ` is a dead char, you need to type the ` twice > or type a blank after it to use them as stand-alone characters and to > trigger a joe-function. This is not needed with singlequote or doublequot= e. Here is something missing, it should look as follows: > On Tuesday, 6. June 2006 16:56, Sebastien Koechlin wrote: > > About this, on non-english keyboard, it's sometime hard, or not possible > > to do some keys combinaisons. Control one's in particular. When using > > joe within putty.exe (windows ssh client) with a french keyboard, I can > > not use ^_, ^^ ("^" is a dead key in french) ^@ (@ is on a second Alt m= ap > > called AltGr key, sometime considered as Alt+Control) ^\ is the same.=20 > > Under linux, ^^, ^@ and ^\ are nearly unusable. > > Talking about that... I just made some quick tests (Linux, german > keyboard) and found that the following do not work: > ^^ > ^! > ^" > ^& > ^/ > ^' (=3D <Ctrl><single-quote>, not an accent) > ^* > ^? > ^. > ^+ > The last two can be reached without using <Shift>. > > But the following work (surprise, surprise): > ^\ (=3D> quote8) (<AltGr> needed to reach "\") > ^_ (=3D> undo) (<Shift> needed to reach "_") > ^` (=3D> quote) <Shift> needed to reach "`" plus a blank or another "`" = to > trigger quote.) Another mistake - ^` does NOT work, but if ` is defined as quote, then ^`=20 "automatically" works, too. Regards Dirk |
From: Brian C. <B.C...@po...> - 2006-06-06 18:48:51
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 11:43:30AM -0400, Joseph H Allen wrote: > Anyway, I'll consider it. Perhaps we should vote on it: Does anyone think > ESC ` is bad? Certainly TeX users would be happier. I'd like to see the default changed. It's also better (IMHO) than having magic code for handling paste inside xterms. Whenever I want to paste something which contains backquotes, I now automatically do: ^KZ cat >ert [paste] ^D fg ^KR ert Thanks to this thread I've just learned how to override this in .joerc, but because I use joe absolutely everywhere, and when logged in under different uids, and some places where I don't have root, it may be hard to deploy all the appropriate .joerc / joerc files. OTOH, making this change means there will be a painful period where it's not consistent between old and new versions of joe. But if the eventual result is being able to type (and paste) backquotes directly, I'd be happy to see that. Regards, Brian. |
From: Brian C. <B.C...@po...> - 2006-06-06 18:57:11
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 01:09:03PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > Oh, there is a preference. Put this in your .joerc: > > quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars Processing '/home/lists/.joerc'... /home/lists/.joerc 1: No context selected for macro to key-sequence binding done There were errors in '/home/lists/.joerc'. Use it anyway (y,n)? Hmm, so then I tried :windows quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars but this gives me a dead editor which doesn't respond to keystrokes - I have to kill it from another shell. What am I doing wrong? Regards, Brian. |
From: Matthew M. <ma...@ma...> - 2006-06-06 19:02:42
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 07:57:03PM +0100, Brian Candler wrote: > Processing '/home/lists/.joerc'... > /home/lists/.joerc 1: No context selected for macro to key-sequence binding > done > There were errors in '/home/lists/.joerc'. Use it anyway (y,n)? > > Hmm, so then I tried > > :windows > quote ^[ ` Enter Ctrl chars > > but this gives me a dead editor which doesn't respond to keystrokes - I have > to kill it from another shell. > > What am I doing wrong? You have to actually copy /etc/joe/joerc and modify it -- sorry for not being clear. Find the existing line and add the ^[. -- Matthew Miller ma...@ma... <http://mattdm.org/> Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/> |
From: Brian C. <B.C...@po...> - 2006-06-06 20:47:35
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 03:02:28PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > You have to actually copy /etc/joe/joerc and modify it -- sorry for not > being clear. Find the existing line and add the ^[. Thanks. A direct edit to /usr/local/etc/joe/joerc has done the trick (globally) Regards, Brian. |
From: Josip R. <jo...@sr...> - 2006-06-06 21:48:34
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On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 03:02:28PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > but this gives me a dead editor which doesn't respond to keystrokes - I have > > to kill it from another shell. > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > You have to actually copy /etc/joe/joerc and modify it -- sorry for not > being clear. Find the existing line and add the ^[. Don't copy anything - just :include it. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. |
From: Joseph H A. <jhallen@TheWorld.com> - 2006-06-06 19:57:37
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>Great! It's working here too. In fact, 6 and 7 are shifted on a french >layout keyboard, ^6 is ^- and ^7 is ^=E8. Maybe make a README.fr (and .hu) and put this fact in it. Joe |