jazzplusplus-devel — Discussion Forum for Jazz Developers

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 19 May 2008 at 6:44, Pete Stieber <pst...@gm...> wrote:

> For the record, my Fedora x86_64 install worked OTB.  Do you want the 
> same information from it?

For Rosegarden, Mandriva 2006 through 2008.0 work OTB, if one ignores 
the startup warning about timer resolution after the default kernel 
config changed to 250Hz.

> Do you have to compile the kernel to get these parameters changed?

Yes.  I didn't do that.



--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 19 May 2008 at 9:21, "D.B. Moore" <db...@ho...> wrote:

> I wanted this stuff to be part of the docs anyway, because Bob already 
> raised this in another thread....but right here, it appears to report Pete's
> situation back to him. I looked at your kernel config, these are the relevant
> sections in your linux resulting in the qsynth error message ;
> 
> //my comments
> 
> 
> CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
> CONFIG_HZ=1000
> 
> //you DO have the right HZ
> 
> 
> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
> # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_BKL is not set
> 
> //I haven't looked at qsynth code, but my guess is the above
> //is the show-stopper. 'VOLUNTARY' = normal 'Desktop' preemption
> //'Low-latency Desktop requires CONFIG_PREEMPT=y (as I do)
> 
> 
> CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="cfq"
> 
> //not actually how sure this one matters...I use DEADLINE
> //myself as I'm more interested in linear performance
> 
> 
> CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y
> CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
> CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
> 
> //I don't use the 'dynamic ticks' stuff
> //I believe one needs the HIGH_RES_TIMER set like you have

Ah, the messy kernel timer stuff.  That doesn't have to be 
distribution specific.  It's an issue that the kernel developers 
pushed onto MIDI users, opting for a lower timer resolution in order 
to improve laptop battery life.  I think they were going to try and 
make it a runtime option, but I haven't followed it.  But, I do know 
that Mandriva inherited the 250Hz junk and I get timer resolution 
warnings when I start up Rosegarden4.  Rosegarden runs fine, even 
with the lower timer resolution.  I imagine it might have problems 
quantizing anything I played live, but I haven't tried that.

Cheers...


--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 18 May 2008 at 16:31, "Pete Stieber" <pst...@gm...> wrote:

> I loaded qsynth & qjackctrl on my Mandriva 2008.0 disk, but every time I
> attempt to start the jack daemon using qjackctrl I get...
> 
> 16:25:03.989 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
> 16:25:03.990 JACK is starting...
> 16:25:03.990 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2
> jackd 0.107.2
> Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
> jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> cannot use real-time scheduling (FIFO at priority 10) [for thread
> -1210526016, from thread -1210526016] (1: Operation not permitted)
> cannot create engine
> 16:25:04.003 JACK was started with PID=24050.
> 16:25:04.037 JACK was stopped successfully.
> 16:25:04.038 Post-shutdown script...
> 16:25:04.038 killall jackd
> jackd: no process killed
> 16:25:04.446 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
> 16:25:06.135 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall
> operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the
> messages window for more info.
> 
> Is this illustrating the need for a RT kernel you mentioned before?

The only trouble I've ever had starting jack is that it can compete 
with artsd when running KDE.  I always kill off artsd.  There's a 
special script which can do that, but I forget its name and that 
computer is off, meaning I can't query it.

Cheers....

--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 18 May 2008 at 15:44, Pete Stieber <pst...@gm...> wrote:

> Kevin,
> I hope I didn't waste too much of your time on this.

None.  It's been really hot up here, 95F on Friday.  The room where I 
have my computer gets hotter than that, and that's where I have my 
music gear and computer.  I don't have air conditioning, and that 
computer has been off since Thursday.  Weather is supposed to cool 
down a bit starting today.  I'll see if I can get any testing done
starting tomorrow or the day after.  I'm also going to be a single 
dad for 10 days while my wife goes to Honduras to build houses with 
Habitat for Humanity.  Her company sponsors 4 teams of 10-12 people 
per year to do that work -- very cool, if you ask me.  But, it does
mean that I'm outnumbered by my kids, ages 4 & 6.  We'll see if that
chews up my free time.

Cheers...

--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 06:44:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva
> 
> PS = Pete Stieber
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM> //my comments
> DM>
> DM> CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
> DM> CONFIG_HZ=1000
> DM>
> DM> //you DO have the right HZ
> DM>
> DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
> DM> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
> DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
> DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_BKL is not set
> DM>
> DM> // I haven't looked at qsynth code, but my
> DM> // guess is the above is the show-stopper.
> DM> // 'VOLUNTARY' = normal 'Desktop' preemption
> DM> //'Low-latency Desktop requires
> DM> // CONFIG_PREEMPT=y (as I do)
> DM>
> DM> CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="cfq"
> DM>
> DM> // not actually how sure this one matters...
> DM> // I use DEADLINE myself as I'm more
> DM> // interested in linear performance
> DM>
> DM> CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y
> DM> CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
> DM> CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
> DM>
> DM> // I don't use the 'dynamic ticks' stuff
> DM> // I believe one needs the HIGH_RES_TIMER
> DM> // set like you have
> DM>
> DM> I believe this accounts for what you're
> DM> seeing with qsynth.
> 
> For the record, my Fedora x86_64 install worked OTB.  Do you want the 
> same information from it?
>

Sure thing, it's a useful back-check ...and adds to my knowledge

> 
> Do you have to compile the kernel to get these parameters changed?
> 

Unfortunately, yes. Unlike the IO scheduler which you can change on the
fly by echoing values into sysfs, the current kernel preemption model
selection is a hardcoded thing which must be selected for inclusion at compile
time. I have no idea if they plan to (or can) expose kernel preemption model 
selection via sysfs, but it sure would get around a lot of this stuff  here...

Regards,

Donald B
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:25:09 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?
> 

.. < snip>...

> PS>>
> PS>> The keyboard and mouse I use on the machine are
> PS>> wireless and produced by Logitec.  For all of
> PS>> the OSs I've used to this point, I've attached a
> PS>> single USB connector from the bluetooth receiver
> PS>> and that connection has worked for both the KB
> PS>> and mouse.  Today I connected a USB to KB (usually
> PS>> purple in color) adapter and hooked that up to the
> PS>> PS2 KB input.  Then I hooked up the PS2 mouse
> PS>> connector (usually green) to the PS2 mouse input
> PS>> on the MB.  When I only use the USB connector,
> PS>> this mouse input is unused.
> PS>>
> PS>> When I booted the Mandrive 2008.0 hard drive, it
> PS>> prompted me for the 2008.0 DVD so it could setup
> PS>> new inputs for X11.  After all of this, the KB and
> PS>> mouse seem to work all of the time.  I don't think
> PS>> this has anything to do with the BIOS upgrade, just
> PS>> the switch from a single USB connection (X must not
> PS>> have liked this) to a PS2 KB adapter on the USB
> PS>> connector and plugging in the previously unused PS2
> PS>> mouse cable from the logitec receiver.
> PS>>
> PS>> After all of this, I updated my Jazz++ source, built
> PS>> the code, and it's running.  I'll report back on the
> PS>> other thread w.r.t trying to solve Donald's latest
> PS>> Linux problem.
> PS>>
> PS>> I'm hoping all of my Mandiva hangs will now be fixed.
> PS>> I haven't even tried the 2008.1 disk I downloaded.
> 
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM> Well done finding that one...it's one of those type
> DM> of problems that seem to defy rational logic....even
> DM> if the gear is branded 'logitec'...;-)
> DM>
> DM> It's also a bit strange it asked for the disk again.
> DM> because really, what you've done should only have
> DM> necessitated (at most) a few alterations to the
> DM> system xconfig....(if you want to send me your
> DM> xf86config file I could look and unravel what the
> DM> madriva makeup looks like)...
> 
> This is getting a bit off-topic for Jazz++, but I have attached two 
> xorg.conf files, the non-working file (xorg.conf.old) and the
> working version (xorg.conf).  You can diff them and see the difference 
> in the mouse configuration.
> 
> I figured a different driver was loaded.  That's why it needed the DVD.
> 

Just shining the torch light on this one last time here.....in your -original-
xorg.conf, you had ;

Section "InputDevice"                                                           
    Identifier "Mouse1"                                                         
    Driver "mouse"                                                              
    Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"                                            
    Option "Device" "/dev/mouse"                                                
EndSection

...which is what one would expect. After you did what you did
and after the disc did whatever, you've got ;

Section "InputDevice"                                                           
    Identifier "Mouse1"                                                         
    Driver "mouse"                                                              
    Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"                                            
    Option "Device" "/dev/mouse"                                                
EndSection                                                                      
                                                                                
Section "InputDevice"                                                           
    Identifier "Mouse2"                                                         
    Driver "evdev"                                                              
    Option "bustype" "0x0011"                                                   
    Option "relBits" "+0+1+2"                                                   
    Option "product" "0x0006"                                                   
    Option "vendor" "0x0002"                                                    
    Option "HWheelRelativeAxisButtons" "7 6"                                    
EndSection

.....this would suggest the event_device interface
which apparently the logitec mouse interface supports,
isn't being detected/configured when it's across the USB bus.

This looks like one of those goofy problems which,
I'll hazard a guess, may be fixed in the new 2008.1 set.

Torch off....


Regards,


Donald B
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
DM = D.B. Moore
DM> //my comments
DM>
DM> CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
DM> CONFIG_HZ=1000
DM>
DM> //you DO have the right HZ
DM>
DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
DM> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
DM> # CONFIG_PREEMPT_BKL is not set
DM>
DM> // I haven't looked at qsynth code, but my
DM> // guess is the above is the show-stopper.
DM> // 'VOLUNTARY' = normal 'Desktop' preemption
DM> //'Low-latency Desktop requires
DM> // CONFIG_PREEMPT=y (as I do)
DM>
DM> CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="cfq"
DM>
DM> // not actually how sure this one matters...
DM> // I use DEADLINE myself as I'm more
DM> // interested in linear performance
DM>
DM> CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y
DM> CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
DM> CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
DM>
DM> // I don't use the 'dynamic ticks' stuff
DM> // I believe one needs the HIGH_RES_TIMER
DM> // set like you have
DM>
DM> I believe this accounts for what you're
DM> seeing with qsynth.

For the record, my Fedora x86_64 install worked OTB.  Do you want the 
same information from it?

Do you have to compile the kernel to get these parameters changed?

Pete

[jazzplusplus-devel] Win32 + fluidsynth + qsynth ?

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greetings,


Just before I hit the editor for a few hours,
has anyone tried the above? It looks like
it's actually possible (one would need win32
port of qt-4 I think for qsynth)

One more question might be what's the
status with Jazz++ and *BSD...anyone know?


Regards,


Donald B


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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Doccumentation -- a scratchpad of thoughts

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greets,


----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 20:05:31 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Doccumentation -- a scratchpad of thoughts
> 
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM> Call it sentimentality on my part if you like, but
> DM> I figure a copy of the original jazz.tex file should
> DM> always remain, in tact, for historical purposes...
> 
> It will because it us under version control.  On your Linux box, try the 
> following command in the jazzplusplus/trunk/jazz/src/HelpFiles directory...
> 
> $ svn log jazz.tex
> 

...snip.....

> 
> DM> Anyhow, reworking jazz.tex is almost tantamount
> DM> to a rewrite. I've got no problem with that,
> DM> and for sure some passages of the old text
> DM>  may find their way into the new draft....but
> DM> ....are we happy with the formal and layout of
> DM> the old jazz.tex documentation?
> 
> Here's how I look at it.  You are doing a fabulous job with the docs. 
> Feel free to re-write as you see fit.  When it comes to Jazz++ 
> functionality, assume we are trying to recreate what the old version 
> did.  I'm sure this is documented in the old version.  I have changed a 
> few things (I want to use my new knob control instead of sliders... see 
> the Metronome dialog), but not much.
> 
//personal barf
One thing I really dislike, is when parts suppliers change the order
of catalog sections every year a new edition of their parts catalog 
comes out....why do they do this?...it's like going to the supermarket
where they daily change the location of things in the store
//end

....and with this in mind, the original layout of the document will
be adhered as closely as possible. Text and descriptions still valid
for jazz++ -today- will remain. New sections will be added as needed,
inside or appended to the existing document structure, images updated
and so on. I don't want folks used to the existing manual to notice
anything different in feel&use of the revised edition, lest I be subject
to my own trivial disdains...

This posting informational only, so it's known just where I'm headed.


Regards,

Donald B
 .





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[jazzplusplus-devel] Expanding concept of 'default' MIDI test-kit

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greetings,

If you've been reading my doc updates, you already
know this isn't 'set in stone'. If you read my bio posting,
you'll recall I mention having a QA/QC cert. 

As best I can figure it, people who experience trouble
using jazz++ and that trouble is related to linux kernel
latencies, such a problem can VERY much depend on
-their- actual setup.

The highlight of unknown variables include how fast
their CPU is, how much ram they have (not because
you need lots of ram, but you need adequate ram to
carry the system footprint without it going out to
swap), how many (other) applications they have
running, how complex the .mid file they're replaying
actually is, whether or not the structure of that file
is valid and correct...and in the softsynth & MIDI
synth soundcard case, just what soundfont is used.

IF their CPU coller is choked with dust, this could
well impact realtime performance as well...so when
I was typing up the bugreports content, it occurred
to me that we can at least eliminate some variables
here, and at the same time facilitate pinponting
what might be going on at the user's end.

What I'm thinking of looks something like this; 

Jazz++ is a constant
The included jazz.mid file is the file constant
The fluidsynth/qsynth is the softsynth constant
The jack-connection-kit is the current constant

What we need now, is a soundfont constant.

Once we have that, we can more or less
be sure that using jazz++ to play jazz.mid using
jack/fluidsynth/qsynth as output with a specific
soundfont file loaded is going to represent the
same -system- load in all cases. Close anyhow.


What do we think?


Regards,

Donald B
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[jazzplusplus-devel] Patch -- htdocs | documentation moved into jazz.tex

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greetings,

Pete,

This moves content from the documentation page of
the website docs, into their 'proper' location  inside
jazz.tex and exposes the new content to the user
manual reader at ;

http://jazzplusplus.sourceforge.net/manual/jazz_requirements.html#topic2

In theory anyhow. This will form a good test of workings.


I've also changed the wording of index.php in

web/htdocs/documentation

to reflect the new location. I've given you a context
to link out with   here    if you wish, the text reads;

"As time  permits, links to that documentation will appear here."

To save time searching jazz.tex for my additions, search for
*NEW* in the jazz.tex file itself.



See attached file :- 20080519-docs-changes.patch.gz

This patch;

replaces reference to old user-list email address with current
sourceforge user-list address.

some words changed in opening paragraph

moved linux/MIDI treatise out of htdocs and into jazz.tex as abstract





Regards,

Donald B

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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greetings,


----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 22:06:21 -0700

> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva
> 
> PS = Pete Stieber
> PS>> Kevin,
> PS>>
> PS>> I loaded qsynth & qjackctrl on my Mandriva 2008.0 disk,
> PS>> but every time I attempt to start the jack daemon using
> PS>> qjackctrl I get...
> PS>>
> PS>> 16:25:03.989 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
> PS>> 16:25:03.990 JACK is starting...
> PS>> 16:25:03.990 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2
> PS>> jackd 0.107.2
> PS>> Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
> PS>> jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
> PS>> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> PS>> under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
> PS>> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> PS>> cannot use real-time scheduling (FIFO at priority 10) [for thread
> PS>> -1210526016, from thread -1210526016] (1: Operation not permitted)
> PS>> cannot create engine
> PS>> 16:25:04.003 JACK was started with PID=24050.
> PS>> 16:25:04.037 JACK was stopped successfully.
> PS>> 16:25:04.038 Post-shutdown script...
> PS>> 16:25:04.038 killall jackd
> PS>> jackd: no process killed
> PS>> 16:25:04.446 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
> PS>> 16:25:06.135 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall
> PS>> operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the
> PS>> messages window for more info.
> PS>>
> PS>> Is this illustrating the need for a RT kernel you mentioned before?
> 
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM> Pete,
> DM>
> DM> As some of my docs touch on this area (or will do ;-),
> DM> I'm actually interested in getting some depth on this
> DM> issue vis-a-vis how different linux distro vendors are
> DM> configuring their 'stock' kernels...
> DM>
> DM> It'd help me a lot here if you could send me your
> DM> (current) kernel's .config file..  (or else, send
> DM> me /proc/config.gz if the madriva kernel has this
> DM> option enabled)....and I can have a closer look at
> DM> this and conclude the mandriva kernel makeup.
> 
> I believe I attached what you want.
> 
> I'm getting closer on Mandriva.  Have qjackctrl displaying something and 
> I'm downloading soundfonts.  It's tough to test and code at the same time.
> 


Yep, sure is....and look, I know you probably think I'm doing enough already,
 but if there's anything I can do to get testing bits done, I do find it a refreshing
break from writing...which is refreshing break from testing....and I've got the time.

Of course, your fight with qsynth & co was all your own there, stuck in the position where
you can't test the blessed code you've just written unless you fix that first...catch22.

However, I had none of this stuff installed here either when I started out,
and relative to -my- experience getting qsynth & co up and running wherein
it actually surprized me to work almost out-of-the-box, your experience in
what I describe as a 'bad' experience, and it would seem that Kevin has had
one of these too...and from my documentor's point of view, this is 'real, live
users' experience' information I can trust, and use in the docs to help users
out specifically and quickly relative to what linux distro they happen to be
using....ie; Kevin and yourself are supplying me this info regarding mandriva,
I do my own debian 4.0 testing for this here...etc..

I wanted this stuff to be part of the docs anyway, because Bob already 
raised this in another thread....but right here, it appears to report Pete's
situation back to him. I looked at your kernel config, these are the relevant
sections in your linux resulting in the qsynth error message ;

//my comments


CONFIG_HZ_1000=y
CONFIG_HZ=1000

//you DO have the right HZ


# CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set
CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
# CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
# CONFIG_PREEMPT_BKL is not set

//I haven't looked at qsynth code, but my guess is the above
//is the show-stopper. 'VOLUNTARY' = normal 'Desktop' preemption
//'Low-latency Desktop requires CONFIG_PREEMPT=y (as I do)


CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="cfq"

//not actually how sure this one matters...I use DEADLINE
//myself as I'm more interested in linear performance


CONFIG_TICK_ONESHOT=y
CONFIG_NO_HZ=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y

//I don't use the 'dynamic ticks' stuff
//I believe one needs the HIGH_RES_TIMER set like you have


I believe this accounts for what you're seeing with qsynth.


Regards,

Donald B
_________________________________________________________________
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS> I'm getting closer on Mandriva.  Have qjackctrl displaying
PS> something and I'm downloading soundfonts.  It's tough to
PS> test and code at the same time.

Jazz++ is playing MIDI files on my Mandriva 2008.0 box.

Finally...

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greets,

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:25:09 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?
> 
> PS>>> Since I'm having a heck of a time with 2008.0,
> PS>>> I'm going to

..< snip> ....

> PS>> I'm hoping all of my Mandiva hangs will now be fixed.
> PS>> I haven't even tried the 2008.1 disk I downloaded.
> 
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM> Well done finding that one...it's one of those type
> DM> of problems that seem to defy rational logic....even
> DM> if the gear is branded 'logitec'...;-)
> DM>
> DM> It's also a bit strange it asked for the disk again.
> DM> because really, what you've done should only have
> DM> necessitated (at most) a few alterations to the
> DM> system xconfig....(if you want to send me your
> DM> xf86config file I could look and unravel what the
> DM> madriva makeup looks like)...
> 
> This is getting a bit off-topic for Jazz++, but I have attached two 
> xorg.conf files, the non-working file (xorg.conf.old) and the
> working version (xorg.conf).  You can diff them and see the difference 
> in the mouse configuration.

Technically...yes...this is off topic for in -here-, and would be something
more appropriate for -user , however, we will calmly look around and
see who the pre-release userbase is actually is, smile, pat each other
on the back... < grin>

'Documentation animal' -- if I can find and isolate a common cause
of problems running jazz++ on a specific distro, here mandriva 2008
is the focus, I will document it, cause, fix...etc...so the answer is there
-before- release time...I try to be ...'thorough' before the fact (which is 
very likely caused by my mechanic's mind outlook to assembly complex
machines ;-)

> 
> I figured a different driver was loaded.  That's why it needed the DVD.
> 

Perhaps they've modularized something that a lot of vendors
include as standard....but, yep, off topic here, will look at it
later, and if I find anything useful..see this discussion again 
as a docs patch ;-)


Regards,

Donald B
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> Kevin,
PS>>
PS>> I loaded qsynth & qjackctrl on my Mandriva 2008.0 disk,
PS>> but every time I attempt to start the jack daemon using
PS>> qjackctrl I get...
PS>>
PS>> 16:25:03.989 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
PS>> 16:25:03.990 JACK is starting...
PS>> 16:25:03.990 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2
PS>> jackd 0.107.2
PS>> Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
PS>> jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
PS>> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
PS>> under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
PS>> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
PS>> cannot use real-time scheduling (FIFO at priority 10) [for thread
PS>> -1210526016, from thread -1210526016] (1: Operation not permitted)
PS>> cannot create engine
PS>> 16:25:04.003 JACK was started with PID=24050.
PS>> 16:25:04.037 JACK was stopped successfully.
PS>> 16:25:04.038 Post-shutdown script...
PS>> 16:25:04.038 killall jackd
PS>> jackd: no process killed
PS>> 16:25:04.446 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
PS>> 16:25:06.135 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall
PS>> operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the
PS>> messages window for more info.
PS>>
PS>> Is this illustrating the need for a RT kernel you mentioned before?

DM = D.B. Moore
DM> Pete,
DM>
DM> As some of my docs touch on this area (or will do ;-),
DM> I'm actually interested in getting some depth on this
DM> issue vis-a-vis how different linux distro vendors are
DM> configuring their 'stock' kernels...
DM>
DM> It'd help me a lot here if you could send me your
DM> (current) kernel's .config file..  (or else, send
DM> me /proc/config.gz if the madriva kernel has this
DM> option enabled)....and I can have a closer look at
DM> this and conclude the mandriva kernel makeup.

I believe I attached what you want.

I'm getting closer on Mandriva.  Have qjackctrl displaying something and 
I'm downloading soundfonts.  It's tough to test and code at the same time.

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] configure.ac update -please test-

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

DM = D.B. Moore
DM>> Same env as before..ie; vkeybd not running but
DM>> with jack/fluidsynth/qsynth running and ready to go.

DM> ...this above bit remains the same....

DM> Test build @ revision 544
DM> ...that's where I am now....
DM>
DM> Good work Pete!  It seems you've got this
DM> problem nailed down;
DM>
DM> (gdb) run
DM> Starting program: /root/Jazz++/TestInstall/bin/jazz
DM> warning: no loadable sections found in added symbol-file
DM> system-supplied DSO at 0x7fff3a5fe000
DM> [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
DM> [New Thread 140051137894112 (LWP 13419)]
DM> JZProject::ReadConfiguration() ConfFileNameAndPath:
DM>   "/root/Jazz++/TestInstall/share/Jazz++/jazz.cfg"
DM> JZConfiguration::LoadConfig:
DM>   "/root/Jazz++/TestInstall/share/Jazz++/jazz.cfg"
DM> Include synthesizer configuration file "gs.jzi"
DM> FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gs.jzi"
DM> Include file "gsdrmset.jzi"
DM> FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gsdrmset.jzi"
DM> Include file "gmdrmnam.jzi"
DM> FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gmdrmnam.jzi"
DM> Include file "gsvoices.jzi"
DM> FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gsvoices.jzi"
DM> Include file "ctrlnam.jzi"
DM> FindFile: Immediate hit on file "ctrlnam.jzi"
DM> INFO: Created client:port = 131:0
DM> INFO: Input device count: 0
DM> INFO: Output device count: 2
DM> Output Devices
DM> Client-128 qjackctl = 128:0
DM> FLUID Synth (qsynth) Synth input port (qsynth:0) = 130:0
DM> INFO: input device is -1, so selecting one.
DM> INFO: No device found!
DM> INFO: Input device is: -1
DM> INFO: Output device is -1, so selecting one.
DM> WARNING: The input MIDI thru device index (0) is out of range!
DM> Setting the value to -1
DM> subscribe: Operation not permitted
DM>
DM> ///here I muse, muse, muse, poke at buttons etc etc///
DM> ///and then I quit the program//
DM>
DM> Program exited normally.
DM>
DM> Wonderful!....just as currently expected.

Great to hear!  How about you Kevin... any better?

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

PS>>> Since I'm having a heck of a time with 2008.0,
PS>>> I'm going to
PS>>>
PS>>> 1. Attempt to upgrade the BIOS for the ASUS
PS>>> A7N8X Deluxe MB I'm running it on, but to be
PS>>> honest, I've run Win 98, 2000, XP, Fedora 3,
PS>>> 4, and 5 without the need for this, so I doubt
PS>>> it will help.
PS>>> 2. Wipe out the disk that has 2008.0 with 2008.1
PS>>> and start over.
PS>>>
PS>>> I tried to use that disk today and it refuses
PS>>> to recognize my USB keyboard/mouse.  The POST
PS>>> recognized it, but not 2008.0.

PS>> So this morning I upgraded the MB BIOS.  I'm not
PS>> sure that helped anything, but I did make a change
PS>> that helped.
PS>>
PS>> The keyboard and mouse I use on the machine are
PS>> wireless and produced by Logitec.  For all of
PS>> the OSs I've used to this point, I've attached a
PS>> single USB connector from the bluetooth receiver
PS>> and that connection has worked for both the KB
PS>> and mouse.  Today I connected a USB to KB (usually
PS>> purple in color) adapter and hooked that up to the
PS>> PS2 KB input.  Then I hooked up the PS2 mouse
PS>> connector (usually green) to the PS2 mouse input
PS>> on the MB.  When I only use the USB connector,
PS>> this mouse input is unused.
PS>>
PS>> When I booted the Mandrive 2008.0 hard drive, it
PS>> prompted me for the 2008.0 DVD so it could setup
PS>> new inputs for X11.  After all of this, the KB and
PS>> mouse seem to work all of the time.  I don't think
PS>> this has anything to do with the BIOS upgrade, just
PS>> the switch from a single USB connection (X must not
PS>> have liked this) to a PS2 KB adapter on the USB
PS>> connector and plugging in the previously unused PS2
PS>> mouse cable from the logitec receiver.
PS>>
PS>> After all of this, I updated my Jazz++ source, built
PS>> the code, and it's running.  I'll report back on the
PS>> other thread w.r.t trying to solve Donald's latest
PS>> Linux problem.
PS>>
PS>> I'm hoping all of my Mandiva hangs will now be fixed.
PS>> I haven't even tried the 2008.1 disk I downloaded.

DM = D.B. Moore
DM> Well done finding that one...it's one of those type
DM> of problems that seem to defy rational logic....even
DM> if the gear is branded 'logitec'...;-)
DM>
DM> It's also a bit strange it asked for the disk again.
DM> because really, what you've done should only have
DM> necessitated (at most) a few alterations to the
DM> system xconfig....(if you want to send me your
DM> xf86config file I could look and unravel what the
DM> madriva makeup looks like)...

This is getting a bit off-topic for Jazz++, but I have attached two 
xorg.conf files, the non-working file (xorg.conf.old) and the
working version (xorg.conf).  You can diff them and see the difference 
in the mouse configuration.

I figured a different driver was loaded.  That's why it needed the DVD.

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greets,

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:31:18 -0700
> Subject: [jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> I loaded qsynth & qjackctrl on my Mandriva 2008.0 disk, but every time I
> attempt to start the jack daemon using qjackctrl I get...
> 
> 16:25:03.989 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
> 16:25:03.990 JACK is starting...
> 16:25:03.990 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2
> jackd 0.107.2
> Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
> jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> cannot use real-time scheduling (FIFO at priority 10) [for thread
> -1210526016, from thread -1210526016] (1: Operation not permitted)
> cannot create engine
> 16:25:04.003 JACK was started with PID=24050.
> 16:25:04.037 JACK was stopped successfully.
> 16:25:04.038 Post-shutdown script...
> 16:25:04.038 killall jackd
> jackd: no process killed
> 16:25:04.446 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
> 16:25:06.135 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall
> operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the
> messages window for more info.
> 
> Is this illustrating the need for a RT kernel you mentioned before?
> 

Pete,

As some of my docs touch on this area (or will do ;-), I'm actually interested
in getting some depth on this issue vis-a-vis how different linux distro 
vendors are configuring their 'stock' kernels...

It'd help me a lot here if you could send me your (current) kernel's
.config file..  (or else, send me /proc/config.gz if the madriva kernel
has this option enabled)....and I can have a closer look at this and
conclude the mandriva kernel makeup.

Regards,

Donald B


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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] configure.ac update -please test-

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

Greetings,

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:49:25 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] configure.ac update -please test-
> 
> DM = D.B. Moore
> DM>>> Same env as before..ie; vkeybd not running but
> DM>>> with jack/fluidsynth/qsynth running and ready to go.
> DM>>>

...this above bit remains the same....

> DM>>> Test build @ revision 544  

...that's where I am now....


Good work Pete!  It seems you've got this problem nailed down;


 (gdb) run
Starting program: /root/Jazz++/TestInstall/bin/jazz 
warning: no loadable sections found in added symbol-file system-supplied DSO at 
0x7fff3a5fe000
[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
[New Thread 140051137894112 (LWP 13419)]
JZProject::ReadConfiguration() ConfFileNameAndPath:
  "/root/Jazz++/TestInstall/share/Jazz++/jazz.cfg"
JZConfiguration::LoadConfig:
  "/root/Jazz++/TestInstall/share/Jazz++/jazz.cfg"
Include synthesizer configuration file "gs.jzi"
FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gs.jzi"
Include file "gsdrmset.jzi"
FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gsdrmset.jzi"
Include file "gmdrmnam.jzi"
FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gmdrmnam.jzi"
Include file "gsvoices.jzi"
FindFile: Immediate hit on file "gsvoices.jzi"
Include file "ctrlnam.jzi"
FindFile: Immediate hit on file "ctrlnam.jzi"
INFO: Created client:port = 131:0
INFO: Input device count: 0
INFO: Output device count: 2
Output Devices
Client-128 qjackctl = 128:0
FLUID Synth (qsynth) Synth input port (qsynth:0) = 130:0
INFO: input device is -1, so selecting one.
INFO: No device found!
INFO: Input device is: -1
INFO: Output device is -1, so selecting one.
WARNING: The input MIDI thru device index (0) is out of range!
Setting the value to -1
subscribe: Operation not permitted

///here I muse, muse, muse, poke at buttons etc etc///
///and then I quit the program//


Program exited normally.



Wonderful!....just as currently expected.

Mind you, just *how* I got it to work a week or so
ago eludes my rational mind....but not to worry,
we seem to be over it now....


Regards,

Donald B

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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[D.B. M. <db...@ho...>]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:44:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?
> 
> PS = Pete Stieber
> PS>>> I just received an announcement about
> PS>>> "Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring".  I take it
> PS>>> this would be newer than the 2008.0 version
> PS>>> I loaded.  Is that true?
> 
> KC = Kevin Cosgrove
> KC>> 2008 Spring is also known as 2008.1.
> 
> PS> Yeah.  I started downloading the DVD.  The
> PS> download is 80% complete with about 43 min
> PS> to go.
> 
> I have the 2008.1 DVD downloaded and burnt, but haven't used it.  See 
> below...
> 
> PS> Since I'm having a heck of a time with 2008.0,
> PS> I'm going to
> PS>
> PS> 1. Attempt to upgrade the BIOS for the ASUS
> PS> A7N8X Deluxe MB I'm running it on, but to be
> PS> honest, I've run Win 98, 2000, XP, Fedora 3,
> PS> 4, and 5 without the need for this, so I doubt
> PS> it will help.
> PS> 2. Wipe out the disk that has 2008.0 with 2008.1
> PS> and start over.
> PS>
> PS> I tried to use that disk today and it refuses
> PS> to recognize my USB keyboard/mouse.  The POST
> PS> recognized it, but not 2008.0.
> 
> So this morning I upgraded the MB BIOS.  I'm not sure that helped 
> anything, but I did make a change that helped.
> 
> The keyboard and mouse I use on the machine are wireless and produced by 
> Logitec.  For all of the OSs I've used to this point, I've attached a 
> single USB connector from the bluetooth receiver and that connection has 
> worked for both the KB and mouse.  Today I connected a USB to KB 
> (usually purple in color) adapter and hooked that up to the PS2 KB 
> input.  Then I hooked up the PS2 mouse connector (usually green) to the 
> PS2 mouse input on the MB.  When I only use the USB connector, this 
> mouse input is unused.
> 
> When I booted the Mandrive 2008.0 hard drive, it prompted me for the 
> 2008.0 DVD so it could setup new inputs for X11.  After all of this, the 
> KB and mouse seem to work all of the time.  I don't think this has 
> anything to do with the BIOS upgrade, just the switch from a single USB 
> connection (X must not have liked this) to a PS2 KB adapter on the USB 
> connector and plugging in the previously unused PS2 mouse cable from the 
> logitec receiver.
> 
> After all of this, I updated my Jazz++ source, built the code, and it's 
> running.  I'll report back on the other thread w.r.t trying to solve 
> Donald's latest Linux problem.
> 
> I'm hoping all of my Mandiva hangs will now be fixed.  I haven't even 
> tried the 2008.1 disk I downloaded.

Well done finding that one...it's one of those type of problems that seem
to defy rational logic....even if the gear is branded 'logitec'...;-)

It's also a bit strange it asked for the disk again. because really, what
you've done should only have necessitated (at most) a few alterations
to the system xconfig....(if you want to send me your xf86config file
I could look and unravel what the madriva makeup looks like)...

Good result though..."get into it lad!"    ;-) 


Regards,

Donald B

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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] configure.ac update -please test-

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

DM = D.B. Moore
DM>>> Same env as before..ie; vkeybd not running but
DM>>> with jack/fluidsynth/qsynth running and ready to go.
DM>>>
DM>>> Test build @ revision 527  (complete session);
DM>>>
DM>>> WARNING: The output device index is out of range!
DM>>>
DM>>> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
DM>>> [Switching to Thread 140569115023072 (LWP 11874)]
DM>>> 0x0000000000426cea in tAlsaPlayer::SetSoftThru
DM>>> (this=0xb68010, on=1, idev=0, odev=0) at
DM>>> ../../jazz/src/AlsaPlayer.cpp:224
DM>>> 224  thru->SetSource(iaddr[ithru].client, iaddr[ithru].port);
DM>>>
DM>>> Hope this helps, regards

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> It does.
PS>>
PS>> After you last crash report I guessed that there
PS>> were no value inputs on your machine, and I
PS>> believe I fixed the cause of that initial crash.
PS>> The debug output that reads...
PS>>
PS>> Input device count: 0
PS>> INFO: input device is -1, so selecting one.
PS>> no device found!
PS>> Input device is: -1
PS>>
PS>> Shows me we are now getting past that problem.
PS>>
PS>> Now you have discovered another place where the
PS>> code attempts to set the ALSA thru for the input
PS>> device, but there are no input devices available.
PS>> I'll bet this is the same problem Kevin C. is
PS>> having.  Unfortunately the Mandriva box I attempt
PS>> debugging on hangs completely when I run Jazz++.

DM> ..that's curious..

PS>> I'm hoping Kevin will reply to my Mandriva post
PS>> indicating if the "Spring version" of Mandriva
PS>> may help me out.
PS>>
PS>> Otherwise, I'm applying blind patches (i.e. patches
PS>> that haven't been tested on anything).
PS>>
PS>> I'll see what I can do.

DM> I wasn't actually aware your mandriva was
DM> that broken by jazz.  Or is that the other
DM> way around?... ;-)
DM>
DM> I'm pretty prompt testing things however...so
DM> patch on...

OK...  I just made some changed to AlsaPlayer.cpp that should write more 
debug output and check for invalid device IDs.  Jazz++ isn't hanging my 
Mandriva install any more (maybe that was keyboard/mouse related), but 
it isn't playing either.  This isn't a Jazz++ issue, but I am having 
problems starting the jack daemon in Mandriva.  See the "Starting jackd 
on Mandriva" thread.


Donald & Kevin,

Could you update to the latest svn and give it a try for me.

Thanks,
Pete

[jazzplusplus-devel] Starting jackd on Mandriva

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

Kevin,

I loaded qsynth & qjackctrl on my Mandriva 2008.0 disk, but every time I
attempt to start the jack daemon using qjackctrl I get...

16:25:03.989 Startup script terminated with exit status=32512.
16:25:03.990 JACK is starting...
16:25:03.990 /usr/bin/jackd -R -dalsa -dhw:0 -r48000 -p1024 -n2
jackd 0.107.2
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
cannot use real-time scheduling (FIFO at priority 10) [for thread
-1210526016, from thread -1210526016] (1: Operation not permitted)
cannot create engine
16:25:04.003 JACK was started with PID=24050.
16:25:04.037 JACK was stopped successfully.
16:25:04.038 Post-shutdown script...
16:25:04.038 killall jackd
jackd: no process killed
16:25:04.446 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256.
16:25:06.135 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall
operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the
messages window for more info.

Is this illustrating the need for a RT kernel you mentioned before?

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] New Mandriva Release?

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>>> I just received an announcement about
PS>>> "Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring".  I take it
PS>>> this would be newer than the 2008.0 version
PS>>> I loaded.  Is that true?

KC = Kevin Cosgrove
KC>> 2008 Spring is also known as 2008.1.

PS> Yeah.  I started downloading the DVD.  The
PS> download is 80% complete with about 43 min
PS> to go.

I have the 2008.1 DVD downloaded and burnt, but haven't used it.  See 
below...

PS> Since I'm having a heck of a time with 2008.0,
PS> I'm going to
PS>
PS> 1. Attempt to upgrade the BIOS for the ASUS
PS> A7N8X Deluxe MB I'm running it on, but to be
PS> honest, I've run Win 98, 2000, XP, Fedora 3,
PS> 4, and 5 without the need for this, so I doubt
PS> it will help.
PS> 2. Wipe out the disk that has 2008.0 with 2008.1
PS> and start over.
PS>
PS> I tried to use that disk today and it refuses
PS> to recognize my USB keyboard/mouse.  The POST
PS> recognized it, but not 2008.0.

So this morning I upgraded the MB BIOS.  I'm not sure that helped 
anything, but I did make a change that helped.

The keyboard and mouse I use on the machine are wireless and produced by 
Logitec.  For all of the OSs I've used to this point, I've attached a 
single USB connector from the bluetooth receiver and that connection has 
worked for both the KB and mouse.  Today I connected a USB to KB 
(usually purple in color) adapter and hooked that up to the PS2 KB 
input.  Then I hooked up the PS2 mouse connector (usually green) to the 
PS2 mouse input on the MB.  When I only use the USB connector, this 
mouse input is unused.

When I booted the Mandrive 2008.0 hard drive, it prompted me for the 
2008.0 DVD so it could setup new inputs for X11.  After all of this, the 
KB and mouse seem to work all of the time.  I don't think this has 
anything to do with the BIOS upgrade, just the switch from a single USB 
connection (X must not have liked this) to a PS2 KB adapter on the USB 
connector and plugging in the previously unused PS2 mouse cable from the 
logitec receiver.

After all of this, I updated my Jazz++ source, built the code, and it's 
running.  I'll report back on the other thread w.r.t trying to solve 
Donald's latest Linux problem.

I'm hoping all of my Mandiva hangs will now be fixed.  I haven't even 
tried the 2008.1 disk I downloaded.

Kevin,

I hope I didn't waste too much of your time on this.

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Tex2RTF build --confirming build

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

DM = D.B. Moore
PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> I guess we (I guess that means you since
PS>> you are the documentation animal ;-) need
PS>> to generate build instructions for Tex2RTF.
PS>> Here is how I do it...

<snip>

DM> Just confirming the build here on my custom
DM> 64bit thing (no 32bit_compat) ....seems to
DM> compile and work fine...
DM>
DM> Also fine on debian-4.0r1 on x86_32

For the record, my successful test was on Fedora 8 with an x86_64 kernel 
(2.6.24.5-85.fc8.x86_64) using GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-33).

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Tex2RTF build

[Pete S. <pst...@gm...>]

D.B. Moore
PS =Pete Stieber
PS>>>> We only use the console or non-GUI version of
PS>>>> tex2rtf in our builds so I copy
PS>>>> BuildTex2rtf/src/tex2rtf to a bin directory
PS>>>> under my wxWidgets installation.

... < snip>...

PS>>>> To be "normal" we should have the user type
PS>>>> "make install" as root, or use "sudo make install"
PS>>>> for distributions that prefer sudo.

DM>>> If it's going to go system-wide, yes, they'll need
DM>>> root_priv or sudo
DM>>>
DM>>> If it's only going to be used at compile time
DM>>> of Jazz++ buld process, it of course doesn't
DM>>> need to go system-wide...
DM>>>
DM>>> In buildingwx, we use su for install
DM>>> in buildingjazz we avoid root_priv

PS>> Correct, but the user would need to specify
PS>> --prefix=... just like in the Jazz++ build.
PS>> I guess we could have them use TestInstall,
PS>> but all of our (actually your ;-)) current
PS>> instructions assume a jazzplusplus/trunk/jazz
PS>> checkout instead of a jazzplusplus check out
PS>> that would be required to obtain tex2rtf.
PS>>  We would always require two separate checkouts
PS>> to achieve this.

DM> ...hmmm. Altering the docs is something that
DM> doesn't bother me. (sometimes I think it's more
DM> preferable than changing other things)
DM>
DM> That said, I possibly think of how many people
DM> actually try an svn co & build overall....right
DM> now like. That answer doesn't matter - what
DM> I'm saying is, once people get used to one way
DM> of doing things, it's best not to throw'em a
DM> curve ball....(so we take our time here and
DM> don't confuse them and come up with....'the plan'...| -)
DM>
DM> I believe the current reality is quite sane,
DM> in as much as the current instructions for an
DM> svn build of jazz++ have established a 'this is
DM> how we do it, keeping the svn build stuff
DM> 'outside' the system tree as much as we can....
DM>      ....for now in these pre-release days, tex2rtf
DM> should probably stay in this created 'bubble'.
DM> This way, one uses pretty much the same
DM> configuration stage options for all things
DM> coming from jazz++ svn....
DM>
DM> ....however, you're right when you talk about
DM> a separate tarball release of tex2rtf itself.
DM> If this were the case, I would ask ;
DM>
DM> Does the svn build *really* need a tex2rtf linked
DM> against the custom-wx build libs to give us the
DM> functionality (of tex2rtf) we need (for the jazz++
DM> build process)?

Any working tex2rtf will do.  If it is the version currently in the 
wxWidgets svn tree built against a stock wxWidgets build, it will work too.

DM> If not, then for sure a release of tex2rtf
DM> should be made available ASAP.
DM> Then it really *is* 'normal'...ie; download,
DM> unpack, ./configure --prefix=/usr ; make ; su make install
DM> et_voila. It'll link against user's system wx-libs, be in $PATH
DM> and become a small dependency of jazz++ itself. Of course,
DM> if we can get binary packages of this happening, then all
DM> the better....
DM>
DM> Imagining a time when you had the time to make tex2rtf
DM> a project of it's own, that's no big deal to link across
DM> to (if you ever find that time ;-)...and remember, we do
DM> have the tex2rtf page to assert all this to the world, and
DM> something like "going to be a project of it's own one day
DM> when I get time to work on it more, but for now a
DM> functional tarball of this utility is being released on
DM> the sourceforge download area for jazz++'..blabla, works
DM> for me...

DM>>> Going by your outlay here, the process should
DM>>> be wx->tex2rtf->jazz++

PS>> Correct.  wx is required for tex2rtf.  Both wx
PS>> and tex2rtf are required for Jazz++.

DM> Is the plan to have a *release* tarball with all
DM> this automated?

Hey Kevin,

Are you interested in making a tex2rtf distribution for us?  It would be 
a good test prior to attempting this for Jazz++.  I can learn from your 
expertise in this arena.

PS>> The release tarball for Jazz++ will not include
PS>> any tex2rtf stuff other than the help files it
PS>> generates.  We may want to generate a separate
PS>> tarball for tex2rtf.  Tex2RTF really should be
PS>> a separate project, but I'm having a difficult
PS>> time working on Jazz++ not alone Tex2RTF...

DM> ....Uh-huh, and release pkgs are likewise...and
DM> of course, the source tarball has everything except
DM> possibly tex2rtf, (which is available separately),
DM> right? (this is me lobbying my own position &
DM> requirements  ;-)

Correct.

DM>>> I'll guess yes...do we offer users a switch in release
DM>>> form? I'm thinking --enable-tex2rtf builds and installs
DM>>> tex2rtf system wide.

PS>> I think the last section of reply helps explain what I'm thinking.

Pete