indic-computing-standards Mailing List for The Indic-Computing Project (Page 5)
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indic-computing-standards — Discussing standards governing information processing in Indian languages
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From: Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...> - 2002-07-21 16:22:56
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Hi Mahesh, Actually this is the type of impasse the indic-computing project wants to resolve, to make sure local language groups have better access to these standardization processes and to make sure local languages are appropriately used and respresented in software and content. We are looking forward to working together with local groups and linguists such as you mention as well as TDIL and MICT to achieve these goals. You should probably come to the planning workshop we are organizing in Bangalore in mid-Sept. Details to come on the list as soon as the date is finalized. Regards, Tapan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh T Pai" <pai...@vs...> Cc: <Ind...@li...>; <Ind...@li...>; <mal...@ya...> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-standards] Re: [Indic-computing-devel] Hi All! > > Dr. U.B. Pavanaja wrote: > > >Ministry of I.C.T, Govt of India, is a voting member of Unicode consortium. They are collecting all the representations from individual languages, compiling them and sending them to Unicode consortium. Kannada group has already done its job. I request all other language groups to do their part so that MICT people can spead up the process. > > > Nice to know that something like this is going on. Better late than > never. > This also means that the NCST will have to take a paid, institutional > membership :-( > > >MICT wants to know from the language groups, ... > > > I think that this issue deserves better publicity. A large number of > linguists in our academicia are not computer aware. But they might be > able to help. > Who at MICT? Is there a last date? Will they accept email? (After all, > it is our Govt) > > Personally, I feel that a large number of characters in malayalam > deserve to be added to the unicode standard. Example are the > characters, unicode ED15 to ED55 in malayalam.ttf, from > http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/fonts/1.1/malayalam.ttf; ie. > glyph characters 174 to 230 in that file. ( I had sought guidance on > some lists about unicode coding for these characters, and have no reply. > hence, I presume that these characters are not covered by unicode). > > With regards, > > Mahesh T Pai. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ __ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Yahoo Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos.yahoo.comm > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Indic-computing-devel mailing list > http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ > Ind...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel |
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From: Cibu J. <ci...@ya...> - 2002-07-19 22:58:30
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Dear Mahesh, This is the most frequently asked question/suggestion in Unicode. The answer is already there in the "Where is my Character?" section in http://www.unicode.org. In the Malayalam context, I have written few notes on this topic at http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net -> Links -> "Notes on Unicode Malayalam" regards, Cibu ------------------------------------------------------- Free Malayalam Editor: http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net --- Mahesh T Pai <pai...@vs...> wrote: > Personally, I feel that a large number of characters > in malayalam > deserve to be added to the unicode standard. > Example are the > characters, unicode ED15 to ED55 in malayalam.ttf, > from > http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/fonts/1.1/malayalam.ttf; > ie. > glyph characters 174 to 230 in that file. ( I had > sought guidance on > some lists about unicode coding for these > characters, and have no reply. > hence, I presume that these characters are not > covered by unicode). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com |
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From: Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...> - 2002-07-19 17:06:31
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> Mahesh T Pai <pai...@vs...> wrote: > > Personally, I feel that a large number of characters in malayalam > deserve to be added to the unicode standard. Example are the > characters, unicode ED15 to ED55 in malayalam.ttf, from > http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/fonts/1.1/malayalam.ttf; ie. > glyph characters 174 to 230 in that file. ( I had sought guidance on > some lists about unicode coding for these characters, and have no > reply. > hence, I presume that these characters are not covered by unicode). There is big difference between TrueType (TTF) fonts normally used by 8-bit ASCII (or ISCII) based encoding system and the OpenType (OTF/TTF) fonts used by 16-bit Uniocde based encoding systems. This diffenerce is prominent in case of Indic scripts where glyph positioning and glyph substitution matters. Consider the first case where TTF fonts are used. Here the font will be having all the glyphs that are needed to make the characters and character combinations. Since the font is based on 8-bit system, there is a limit of maximum number of glyphs. The glyph id has to be between 32 and 255 (ASCII). Some glyph numbers can not be used in this range as they are used internally by the system. In case of Kannada we are able to manage with 142 glyphs. As you type the keys, the keyboard driver keeps adding and/or changing the glyphs depending on the context. In the second case where you use a 16-bit Unicode system, OpenType fonts are used. There is no limit on the number glyphs. Hence you can have glyphs for almost all combinations. Here the glyph substitution and glyph positioning logic is built into the font (details are available at Microsoft's Typography site, www.microsoft.com/typography). There is a rendering engine in Windows 2000 and XP called Uniscribe (usp10.dll) which does the rendering of the font as per the tables built into the font /1/. Hence there is no need of encoding every glyph present in the font. I suggest you to download VOLT from Microsoft site, study the tutorial and documents, and then create your Opentype font for Malayalam. Regards, Pavanaja Footnote: /1/ Latest Pango/Gtk are supposed to be having the rendering capability of Indic Opentype fonts. Karunakar can throw more lights on this.----------------------------------------------- ------ Dr. U.B. Pavanaja Editor, Vishva Kannada World's first Internet magazine in Kannada http://www.vishvakannada.com/ Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes |
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From: Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...> - 2002-07-19 16:24:18
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> >Ministry of I.C.T, Govt of India, is a voting member of Unicode > >consortium. They are collecting all the representations from > >individual languages, compiling them and sending them to Unicode > >consortium. Kannada group has already done its job. I request all > >other language groups to do their part so that MICT people can spead > >up the process. > > > Nice to know that something like this is going on. Better late than > never. This also means that the NCST will have to take a paid, > institutional membership :-( No need to take a paid membership. NCST comes under Ministry of Communication and Information Technology, Govt of India. -Pavanaja----------------------------------------------------- Dr. U.B. Pavanaja Editor, Vishva Kannada World's first Internet magazine in Kannada http://www.vishvakannada.com/ Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes |
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From: Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...> - 2002-07-19 15:30:18
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> > >MICT wants to know from the language groups, ... > > > I think that this issue deserves better publicity. A large number of > linguists in our academicia are not computer aware. But they might be > able to help. Who at MICT? Is there a last date? Will they accept > email? (After all, it is our Govt) The person to be contacted is Dr. Om Vikas, Ministry of Communications and Information Technology, Department of Information Technology, Govt of India, E-mail: om...@mi... -Pavanaja----------------------------------------------------- Dr. U.B. Pavanaja Editor, Vishva Kannada World's first Internet magazine in Kannada http://www.vishvakannada.com/ Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes |
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From: Mahesh T P. <pai...@vs...> - 2002-07-19 11:16:46
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Dr. U.B. Pavanaja wrote: >Ministry of I.C.T, Govt of India, is a voting member of Unicode consortium. They are collecting all the representations from individual languages, compiling them and sending them to Unicode consortium. Kannada group has already done its job. I request all other language groups to do their part so that MICT people can spead up the process. > Nice to know that something like this is going on. Better late than never. This also means that the NCST will have to take a paid, institutional membership :-( >MICT wants to know from the language groups, ... > I think that this issue deserves better publicity. A large number of linguists in our academicia are not computer aware. But they might be able to help. Who at MICT? Is there a last date? Will they accept email? (After all, it is our Govt) Personally, I feel that a large number of characters in malayalam deserve to be added to the unicode standard. Example are the characters, unicode ED15 to ED55 in malayalam.ttf, from http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/fonts/1.1/malayalam.ttf; ie. glyph characters 174 to 230 in that file. ( I had sought guidance on some lists about unicode coding for these characters, and have no reply. hence, I presume that these characters are not covered by unicode). With regards, Mahesh T Pai. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Yahoo Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos.yahoo.comm |
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From: Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...> - 2002-07-19 08:28:48
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Ministry of I.C.T, Govt of India, is a voting member of Unicode consortium. They are collecting all the representations from individual languages, compiling them and sending them to Unicode consortium. Kannada group has already done its job. I request all other language groups to do their part so that MICT people can spead up the process. MICT wants to know from the language groups, whether the current Unicode for that language is proper, if not, what are the corrections needed. Remember, there are two things to look at -Unicode character charts and the collation table. The placement of character on the code chart has nothing to do with the sorting order. Sorting order is decided by the collation table. Unicode consortium have made it clear number of times, that no character will be deleted or moved to a different place, in the code chart. More characters can be added. Rgs, Pavanaja > >I have sent a request to unicode.org and waiting for reply. Can you > >tell like how will register my application with Unicode. B'coz I have > >just sent a mail to the organization. > > > Look for a link about membership on the unicode site. There are three > classes of membership. One of them is *free* ( as in "saujanyam" in > malayalam ). The qualification is that the member should be an > organisation, which will co-ordinate activities in a particular > language/country. ----------------------------------------------------- Dr. U.B. Pavanaja Editor, Vishva Kannada World's first Internet magazine in Kannada http://www.vishvakannada.com/ Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes |
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From: Mahesh T P. <pai...@vs...> - 2002-07-19 08:19:40
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Manoranjan Kumar Singh wrote: >I have sent a request to unicode.org and waiting for reply. Can you tell >like how will register my application with Unicode. B'coz I have just sent >a mail to the organization. > Look for a link about membership on the unicode site. There are three classes of membership. One of them is *free* ( as in "saujanyam" in malayalam ). The qualification is that the member should be an organisation, which will co-ordinate activities in a particular language/country. Best of luck! And our supports to your efforts. Regards, Mahesh T Pai. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Yahoo Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos.yahoo.comm |
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From: Mahesh T P. <pai...@vs...> - 2002-07-19 08:01:21
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Manoranjan Kumar Singh wrote: >Currently I am leading two Indian language based project Vartalaap and BharateeyaOO.o > Well, where on openoffice.org (the site, not the suite) are your contributions mentioned? >We are enabling the Indian languages support in OpenOffice.org suite via localization of the user interface and internationalization of the suite to provide complex text layout support >and to incorporate Indian locale specific features on Windows as well as on linux platforms. > What are the standards adopted by you to implement Indian language support? Where are your website have you mentioned it? >Plz. visit the web-site of Vartalaap & BharateeyaOO.o to know in details > > http://www.ncb.ernet.in/bharateeyaoo > Where is the documentation about your efforts? There are the screen shots. When wile the files be available for download? What are the keyboard layouts used? Which fonts are used? You mention in your site that you have translated the OO glossary. Where is it? When I visited the internationalisation page of openoffice.org last week, it did not mention that work on hindi or tamil is/was going on -- or did I miss out something? For that matter, I was in touch with some people associated with openoffice.org, at least for last one month, and they were not aware of any work going on for porting openoffice.org into Indian Languages. What are you missing? Regards, Mahesh T Pai ________________________________________________________________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Yahoo Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos.yahoo.comm |
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From: Keyur S. <key...@ya...> - 2002-07-19 05:14:16
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Hi Ajay, > > How about getting enrolled in Unicode.org or pango.org? And helping get a > Indian version of Linux out of door, unless you guys are sponsored by > Microsoft. You guys developed a flavor of X that supported Hindi and > still didn't push to get it adopted at Xfree86.org or X.org. When we started IndiX project, Indic support was out of scope in XFree86 development team. And when Pango project started, we already did a considerable amount of work. We also approached the members of Pango team and showed them our willingness to help in the development. Unfortunately, no one responded to my mail. Also I was so busy in my project that I couldn't follow my that mail any further. Since we have basic design conflict with XFree86 core development team members, we couldn't push our work in that branch. > At the best, you can help trolltech.com roll out a version of Qt that > supports Indic scripts. We have already joined the kde-i18n list. We also like to help trolltech.com in providing indic support in Qt. Please refer to the mail that I sent recently to this list: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-i18n-doc&m=102576553904044&w=2 Right now we are studying architecture of KDE and Qt. > > Not only will it be good for NCST to get international recognition, > believe me > that most of developers in Linux world will consider you guys Indic > gurus. > > Give it a thought and take care, Thanks for your suggestions. Best regards, Keyur __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com |
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From: Shrinath S. <shr...@ko...> - 2002-07-19 04:24:58
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Hello Ajay, Vartaalap "also" supports chat. A closer examination will reveal that it supports collaborative workspaces by providing white boards and more... Of course Manoranjan at NCST banglore will fill you in on the finer details. I had a similar view of vartaalap till these good people showed me the actual demo. Your ideas on NCST joining in on adding Indic support to linux are very valid and in line with NCST's efforts thus far. Take a look at these at http://rohini.ncst.ernet.in/indix and at http://www.ncb.ernet.in/bharateeyaoo Many people are already aware of this and have reviewed and provided constuctive criticism and useful feedback. All your views are welcome too. Warm regards, shrinath ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajay Guleria" <aja...@ya...> To: "Manoranjan Kumar Singh" <ma...@nc...>; <Ind...@li...>; <Ind...@li...>; <Ind...@li...> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 10:01 PM Subject: [Indic-computing-standards] Re: [Indic-computing-devel] Hi All! > For a minute, I was taken away by your description and thought you guys were > re-inventing the wheel. In essence, "Vartalaap" is a Unicode port of a chat > app, right? > > PS: I am just trying to get the right description and not trying to mull down > on NCST contributions. I think you guys are doing great. > > How about getting enrolled in Unicode.org or pango.org? And helping get a > Indian version of Linux out of door, unless you guys are sponsored by > Microsoft. You guys developed a flavor of X that supported Hindi and still > didn't push to get it adopted at Xfree86.org or X.org. At the best, you can > help trolltech.com roll out a version of Qt that supports Indic scripts. > > Not only will it be good for NCST to get international recognition, believe me > that most of developers in Linux world will consider you guys Indic gurus. > > Give it a thought and take care, > > -Ajay. > |
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From: Manoranjan K. S. <ma...@nc...> - 2002-07-19 04:12:06
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Dear Ajay, You are right, Vartalaap is a Unicode based chat system. But apart from chat it also provide other facility like archive and replay of session, support for virtual classroom (A classroom on the net), roaming profile etc. We are porting the Vartalaap on Linux, we have started the project and will implement it within 6 month. The plan is to develop a multi-lingual communication application with multi-lingual user interface. The Vartalaap server is running on Windows 2000. And right now there is no plan to port the server on Linux. I think Vartalaap chat server is the first chat server running in India based on IRC protocol with Unicode support. The server address is vartalaap.ncb.ernet.in and port no. is 6667. Any body can connect to this server using IRC client like Mirc and can communicate with other connected user. I have sent a request to unicode.org and waiting for reply. Can you tell like how will register my application with Unicode. B'coz I have just sent a mail to the organization. Our project is not sponsored by Microsoft and we are trying our best to get the proper recognitions. I'll very thankful for your guidance to get the recognition. Our Linux patch IndiX is able to provide the support for Hindi and we have also extended this project for other languages. We are also working on the project BharateeyaOO.o, which is a project to enable Indian language support in OpenOffice.org on Windows and Linux. Windows work is near to finish and we will start working on Linux very soon. Looking forward for your guidance. Thanks n' Regards Manu. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|@|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Manoranjan Kr. Singh, Staff Scientist |@| Tel: +91 80 852 3300/0239 Ext 2411 NCST, 68 Electronic City, |@| E-Mail: ma...@nc..., Bangalore, INDIA - 561229 |@| ran...@ya... |@@@@@| Home Page: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/~manu, http://www.geocities.com/ranjan_mano ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, Ajay Guleria wrote: > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT) > From: Ajay Guleria <aja...@ya...> > To: Manoranjan Kumar Singh <ma...@nc...>, > Ind...@li..., > Ind...@li..., > Ind...@li... > Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-devel] Hi All! > > For a minute, I was taken away by your description and thought you guys were > re-inventing the wheel. In essence, "Vartalaap" is a Unicode port of a chat > app, right? > > PS: I am just trying to get the right description and not trying to mull down > on NCST contributions. I think you guys are doing great. > > How about getting enrolled in Unicode.org or pango.org? And helping get a > Indian version of Linux out of door, unless you guys are sponsored by > Microsoft. You guys developed a flavor of X that supported Hindi and still > didn't push to get it adopted at Xfree86.org or X.org. At the best, you can > help trolltech.com roll out a version of Qt that supports Indic scripts. > > Not only will it be good for NCST to get international recognition, believe me > that most of developers in Linux world will consider you guys Indic gurus. > > Give it a thought and take care, > > -Ajay. > > > --- Manoranjan Kumar Singh <ma...@nc...> wrote: > > Hi All! > > > > I am Manoranjan kumar singh, working with NCST, Bangalore. > > > > Currently I am leaidng two Indian language based project Vartalaap and > > BharateeyaOO.o > > > > Vartalaap > > A project to enable the multiple languages with special focus on Indian > > languages, to optimize and increase the features to support highly > > intercative classroom and conference environments. It is an effort to use > > the existing Internet Relay Chat concet in better way. > > > > BharateeyaOO.o > > A project to enable Indian language support in 'OpenOffice.org source > > project'. OpenOffice.org is an open source, community-developed, > > multi-platform office productivity suite. We are enabling the Indian > > languages > > support in OpenOffice.org suite via localization of the user interface and > > internationalization of the suite to provide complex text layout support > > and to incorporate Indian locale specific features on Windows as well as > > on linux platforms. > > > > > > Plz. visit the web-site of Vartalaap & BharateeyaOO.o to know in details > > URL: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/vartalaap > > http://www.ncb.ernet.in/bharateeyaoo > > > > > > Thanks n' Regards > > Manu. > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|@|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Manoranjan Kr. Singh, Staff Scientist |@| Tel: +91 80 852 3300/0239 Ext > > 2411 > > NCST, 68 Electronic City, |@| E-Mail: ma...@nc..., > > Bangalore, INDIA - 561229 |@| ran...@ya... > > |@@@@@| > > Home Page: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/~manu, > > http://www.geocities.com/ranjan_mano > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > > Welcome to geek heaven. > > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > > _______________________________________________ > > Indic-computing-devel mailing list > > http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ > > Ind...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > |
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From: Ajay G. <aja...@ya...> - 2002-07-18 16:32:01
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For a minute, I was taken away by your description and thought you guys were re-inventing the wheel. In essence, "Vartalaap" is a Unicode port of a chat app, right? PS: I am just trying to get the right description and not trying to mull down on NCST contributions. I think you guys are doing great. How about getting enrolled in Unicode.org or pango.org? And helping get a Indian version of Linux out of door, unless you guys are sponsored by Microsoft. You guys developed a flavor of X that supported Hindi and still didn't push to get it adopted at Xfree86.org or X.org. At the best, you can help trolltech.com roll out a version of Qt that supports Indic scripts. Not only will it be good for NCST to get international recognition, believe me that most of developers in Linux world will consider you guys Indic gurus. Give it a thought and take care, -Ajay. --- Manoranjan Kumar Singh <ma...@nc...> wrote: > Hi All! > > I am Manoranjan kumar singh, working with NCST, Bangalore. > > Currently I am leaidng two Indian language based project Vartalaap and > BharateeyaOO.o > > Vartalaap > A project to enable the multiple languages with special focus on Indian > languages, to optimize and increase the features to support highly > intercative classroom and conference environments. It is an effort to use > the existing Internet Relay Chat concet in better way. > > BharateeyaOO.o > A project to enable Indian language support in 'OpenOffice.org source > project'. OpenOffice.org is an open source, community-developed, > multi-platform office productivity suite. We are enabling the Indian > languages > support in OpenOffice.org suite via localization of the user interface and > internationalization of the suite to provide complex text layout support > and to incorporate Indian locale specific features on Windows as well as > on linux platforms. > > > Plz. visit the web-site of Vartalaap & BharateeyaOO.o to know in details > URL: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/vartalaap > http://www.ncb.ernet.in/bharateeyaoo > > > Thanks n' Regards > Manu. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|@|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Manoranjan Kr. Singh, Staff Scientist |@| Tel: +91 80 852 3300/0239 Ext > 2411 > NCST, 68 Electronic City, |@| E-Mail: ma...@nc..., > Bangalore, INDIA - 561229 |@| ran...@ya... > |@@@@@| > Home Page: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/~manu, > http://www.geocities.com/ranjan_mano > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Welcome to geek heaven. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Indic-computing-devel mailing list > http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ > Ind...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com |
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From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-07-18 13:40:48
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On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:57:17 +0530 Guntupalli Karunakar <kar...@fr...> wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:18:49 +0530 > "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> wrote: > > > > > Have you guys seen the Vishwa Bharat magazine put out by TDIL? > > Its pretty informative actually... Some parts could be useful for > > the indic-computing web site documentation work. > > > > Does anyone know if this magazine is available in on-line form? > > > There is some stuff at > http://tdil.mit.gov.in/news.htm > This is the latest one http://tdil.mit.gov.in/tdiljan2002.pdf |
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From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-07-18 13:14:52
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On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:18:49 +0530 "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> wrote: > > Have you guys seen the Vishwa Bharat magazine put out by TDIL? Its > pretty informative actually... Some parts could be useful for the > indic-computing web site documentation work. > > Does anyone know if this magazine is available in on-line form? > There is some stuff at http://tdil.mit.gov.in/news.htm Regards, Karunakar |
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From: Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...> - 2002-07-18 12:48:28
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Have you guys seen the Vishwa Bharat magazine put out by TDIL? Its pretty informative actually... Some parts could be useful for the indic-computing web site documentation work. Does anyone know if this magazine is available in on-line form? -- Tapan |
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From: Manoranjan K. S. <ma...@nc...> - 2002-07-18 05:22:50
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Hi All! I am Manoranjan kumar singh, working with NCST, Bangalore. Currently I am leaidng two Indian language based project Vartalaap and BharateeyaOO.o Vartalaap A project to enable the multiple languages with special focus on Indian languages, to optimize and increase the features to support highly intercative classroom and conference environments. It is an effort to use the existing Internet Relay Chat concet in better way. BharateeyaOO.o A project to enable Indian language support in 'OpenOffice.org source project'. OpenOffice.org is an open source, community-developed, multi-platform office productivity suite. We are enabling the Indian languages support in OpenOffice.org suite via localization of the user interface and internationalization of the suite to provide complex text layout support and to incorporate Indian locale specific features on Windows as well as on linux platforms. Plz. visit the web-site of Vartalaap & BharateeyaOO.o to know in details URL: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/vartalaap http://www.ncb.ernet.in/bharateeyaoo Thanks n' Regards Manu. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|@|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Manoranjan Kr. Singh, Staff Scientist |@| Tel: +91 80 852 3300/0239 Ext 2411 NCST, 68 Electronic City, |@| E-Mail: ma...@nc..., Bangalore, INDIA - 561229 |@| ran...@ya... |@@@@@| Home Page: http://www.ncb.ernet.in/~manu, http://www.geocities.com/ranjan_mano ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
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From: Mahesh T P. <pai...@ya...> - 2002-07-12 17:43:35
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( in further reply to an earlier posting by jk...@fr.... I feel
that this subject deserves separate treatment, just in case ..... )
The questions were:-
> Is a "cillu" treated like the its base (regular) consonant when
determining ordering? If so which `regular' consonants do the five
"cillu" consonants map to respectively?
See the attachment. It is in iLeap 2.07 format. If anybody has
difficulty reading it, please contact me to obtain a .jpeg format file
(would be about 80 kb + ).
> Are there Malayalam words that are identical except for the fact that
one uses a "cillu" 'c' and one uses the ``regular consonant'' associated
with the "cillu" 'c'? Do these words have different meanings?
Not sure. Consider these -
A. "vill" (the bow) . Now write the english "will" in malayalam.
Both are pronounced the same, but have different meanings .....
B. Consider "aLLu" (the spiky think police throw at wheels of vehicles
which do not stop at check posts)
and "altara" (malayalam-ised version of english altar)
Basically, I feel that there is difference in pronunciation of the
chillu and non-chillu consonants. We frequently miss out on the subtle
differences and old times say that we do not either (1) clean our
tongues or (2) clean our ears or (3) both.
For sake of simplicity, early forms of mechanized typography, (both
print and typewriter) had greatly simplified and reduced the characters
available to the malayalam language. Now, with 2 to the power of 16
characters at our disposal, there is no reason why we should be stingy
with characters.
Hope this would answer the questions. If not, please do get in touch.
Regards,
Mahesh T pai.
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From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-07-11 11:05:02
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>>>> "mtp" == "Mahesh T Pai" mtp> shall I write it in iLeap [snip] or as an openoffice.org document? Either of these would be fine. You could even use the Varamozhi transliteration scheme to describe Malayalam words if that would be simpler to do. Regards, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
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From: Cibu J. <ci...@ya...> - 2002-07-10 17:54:13
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The Microsoft typography page at[http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/other.htm] seems to indicate that decision to use a "cillu" form of a consonant is purely a display/rendering one. It ties the "cillu" consonants to the "regular" consonants that are similar phonetically. =====> This is not correct. See these words: 'kaNvan' and 'maN_veeNa' [in Mozhi transliteration scheme: http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net/quickref.html - almost same as ITrans]. First one uses 'Na' and second one uses 'chill~ Na'. There is no general rule to decide whether to use 'chill~ Na' or 'Na' by looking at the letters alone? So use of special characters like zero width joiner is necessary to represent a 'chill~' letter. o Are there Malayalam words that are identical except for the fact that one uses a "cillu" 'c' and one uses the ``regular consonant'' associated with the "cillu" 'c'? Do these words have different meanings? ====> Assuming it is a general 'chill~', example is again the above mentioned words. ====> These questions are transliteration questions. Except for the font and rendering issues, the Unicode Malayalam discussions invariably use to fall into transliteration questions. This is not surprising, because Unicode is in part a transliteration in disguise - as in transliteration, it is trying to seperate out the essential building blocks of Malayalam text. cheers, cibu http://varamozhi.sourceforge.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com |
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From: Mahesh T P. <pai...@ya...> - 2002-07-10 12:05:14
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baiju m wrote: >Forwarding...(please make reply to indic-computing-standards list) > > >> >>In the Malayalam script, a few consonants are termed as capable of "standing by themselves without a supporting vowel" ..... >> >>My understanding is that these "cillu" forms tend to be used as the non-initial letters of written Malayalam words. >> Yes. The cillus I have not come across any word with any of the cillus as the first character. >>seems to indicate that decision to use a "cillu" form of a consonant is >>purely a display/rendering one. It ties the "cillu" consonants to the >>"regular" consonants that are similar phonetically. >> No. It is not question of mere display. There is a difference between "mulla" (jasmine) and "muLL" (thorn) (also pronounced as "muLLu" -- I have the "muLLmuna" in mind) and "muLLa" (the muslim cleric). >>Question: >> >>I'm trying to determine if the "cillu" consonants are different from the regular Malayalam consonants only in terms of presentation. By this I mean: >> >> o How do we sort a Malayalam word that has a "cillu" consonant in it? >> Ideally, they should come last. But, in actual practice, ..... >> How do Malayalam dictionaries treat a words containing "cillu"s? >> .... they come after the nearest sounding consonant. That creates a problem. Of the words "muNN" (used as prefix) and "munnale" (previously) ( Which should come first? I will look it up get back. >> Is a "cillu" treated like the its base (regular) consonant when determining ordering? If so which `regular' consonants do the five "cillu" consonants map to respectively? >> That requires some detailed reply .. let me see ... and my reply would contain examples should be in malayalam script, but how do I compose unicode using mozilla 1.1? Shall I write it in iLeap, convert to jpeg picture, and resize it to a lower quality? Or should I put up a openoffice.org document using one of the iLeap's ML-TT* fonts? >> o Are there Malayalam words that are identical except for the fact >> that one uses a "cillu" 'c' and one uses the ``regular consonant'' >> associated with the "cillu" 'c'? Do these words have different >> meanings? >> >> >>Regards, >>Koshy >><jk...@fr...> >>http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Regards, Mahesh T Pai. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
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From: Vijay P. S. A. <vi...@sr...> - 2002-07-09 17:12:58
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On Tuesday, July 09, 2002, fpohlmann, wrote: > Oh gee. That's my old college!!! I am thinking of going back and finishing off > that pesky PhD there..... > > Should I find out more? Any interest? Well why not, sure, do try to find how the program might help in some of the endangered languages in India, I am not sure whom to get in touch on Endangered languages in India, in reserach area. If any of you please forward this to relevant people. vijay ----- Original Message ----- From: "fpohlmann" <fpo...@ba...> To: "Vijay Pratap Singh Aditya" <vi...@sr...>; <lr_...@ma...> Cc: "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...>; <as...@mi...>; <ind...@li...>; <ve...@me...> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:29 PM Subject: RE: [Indic-computing-standards] Fw: The Endangered Languages Documentation Programme > >Please find below outline details of a new research programme for the > >documentation of Endangered Languages. > > > >Initial announcement > > > >The Endangered Languages Documentation Programme > > > > > >A. A new research programme for the documentation of endangered languages. > > > >There is a very strong prospect that a private foundation will initiate a > >programme of grants to support the documentation of endangered languages, > >and appoint the School of Oriental & African Studies, London University > >[SOAS] > > Oh gee. That's my old college!!! I am thinking of going back and finishing off > that pesky PhD there..... > > Should I find out more? Any interest? > > -Frank > |
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From: fpohlmann <fpo...@ba...> - 2002-07-09 15:59:56
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>Please find below outline details of a new research programme for the >documentation of Endangered Languages. > >Initial announcement > >The Endangered Languages Documentation Programme > > >A. A new research programme for the documentation of endangered languages. > >There is a very strong prospect that a private foundation will initiate a >programme of grants to support the documentation of endangered languages, >and appoint the School of Oriental & African Studies, London University >[SOAS] Oh gee. That's my old college!!! I am thinking of going back and finishing off that pesky PhD there..... Should I find out more? Any interest? -Frank |
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From: Vijay P. S. A. <vi...@sr...> - 2002-07-09 13:01:43
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Hi, I thought this might be of interest for the community. Regards vijay ----- Original Message ----- From: <in...@el...> To: <lin...@li...>; "Endangered Languages" <end...@ca...>; "Indknow" <indknow@u.washington.edu> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 6:21 PM Subject: The Endangered Languages Documentation Programme Please find below outline details of a new research programme for the documentation of Endangered Languages. Initial announcement The Endangered Languages Documentation Programme A. A new research programme for the documentation of endangered languages. There is a very strong prospect that a private foundation will initiate a programme of grants to support the documentation of endangered languages, and appoint the School of Oriental & African Studies, London University [SOAS] to administer the scheme. The prospective Invitation to Apply, which is likely to be disseminated in late August, will contain full guidelines and contact details for any further inquiries. In the interim, no further details will be made available and prospective applicants are requested to avoid contacting SOAS with inquiries. The purpose of this announcement is to indicate the rationale of the putative programme and enable potential applicants to begin considering the details of their possible proposals. B. Rationale. The rationale of such a programme will be familiar to potential applicants: the pace at which languages are becoming extinct is increasing throughout the world. Furthermore, since only about one-third of the world's languages have literate traditions, the vast majority of languages which die will leave no substantial record of themselves, or the cultural traditions that they have sustained. Quite apart from the loss of individual cultural expressions, this process reflects a grave diminution in human and cultural diversity and a loss of the knowledge on which they are based and which they embody. The objective of the proposed programme would be twofold: to encourage the development of linguistic fieldwork in endangered languages, especially by younger scholars with a grounding in linguistic theory, who will thereby also be provided with support between basic graduate work and the assumption of university positions; and to support the documentation of as many threatened languages as possible, focused on where the danger of extinction is greatest, facilitating the preservation of culture and knowledge, and creating repositories of data for the linguistic and social sciences, and of course for indigenous communities. Such documentation should, therefore, have regard not only to the formal content and structure of languages, but also to the varied social and cultural contexts within which languages are used. In addition to the intellectual quality of applications, principal grounds for support will be the degree of endangerment and the urgency of the issues. C. Applications. Applications will be invited from researchers - who might include suitably qualified research students or postdoctoral candidate, as well as senior and established academics - with qualifications in and, ideally, experience of field linguistics. It is anticipated that all applicants will have, or will have developed in advance of funding, a formal link with (preferably an established position in) a university or comparable research institution. The core of the programme will probably be grants to support more or less elaborate projects for the documentation of individual or closely related endangered languages, involving one or more researchers and receiving support for up to three or, in exceptional circumstances four, years. However, individuals (including suitably qualified research students and postdoctoral fellows) may apply for grants. In the first instance applicants will be expected to submit a relatively brief Summary Proposal Form. These will be assessed and those, which appear to conform to the programme's expectations as to importance and quality, will be invited to submit a more detailed application. It is anticipated that in this first 'round' the date for submission of Summary Proposals will be mid-October 2002; invitations to submit detailed applications will be despatched in late November 2002; and the closing date for detailed applications will be early January 2003. Detailed applications will have to conform to a variety of standards (including ethical and technical standards), which will be specified in the formal Invitation to Apply some time in late August. Meanwhile, potential applicants are requested not to contact SOAS. |
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From: Venkatesh \(Venky\) H. <ve...@me...> - 2002-07-07 19:05:18
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Dear Dr. Pavanaja, My feeling is that since we don't need the additional traffic that comes from combining this with something like IT.com, there is no compelling reason to hold this meeting with them. We could probably run a tutorial session for interested members of the public on Indic computing at Bangalore IT.com which you and/or Koshy could conduct. I think that would be a good idea. Venky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. U.B. Pavanaja" <pav...@vi...> To: <ind...@li...> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-standards] Strategy > Hi all, > > How about holding the workshop during the BangaloteIT.COM > 2002? It will be held during Nov.1-5. There was a session > called "IT for common man" last year. We may propose to have > our workshop under this. Please let me have the opinion of > all. I can talk to the ppl at Govt of Karanata, IT Dept. > > Rgds, > Pavanaja > > > >From: "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> > > Also, as to the proposed workshop Venky and I are planning, just to > > remind you we would like to get an initial list of invitees from all > > the session leaders by the end of the month, as well as a high level > > description for how you propose to structure the ession. ----------------------------------------------------- > Dr. U.B. Pavanaja > Editor, Vishva Kannada > World's first Internet magazine in Kannada > http://www.vishvakannada.com/ > > Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek > Got root? We do. > http://thinkgeek.com/sf > _______________________________________________ > Indic-computing-standards mailing list http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ > Ind...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-standards |
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