hpoj-devel — HPOJ development/support list

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Till K. <til...@gm...>]

[ Back-posting to the list ]

Please, keep this thread on the list (always use "Reply to all"). Now it 
lloks like that we need the help of someone else.

    Till


bbales wrote:
> Then this one from Till.
> 
> On Wednesday 01 December 2004 06:32, Till Kamppeter wrote:
> 
>>Can you print on it with the "ptal-print" command? If so, you have a
>>CUPS problem and should perhaps better post on the CUPS mailing list.
>>
>>    Till
> 
> 
> ptal-printd goodmen 
> yields: 
> ptal-printd(goodmen): ptalDeviceOpen failed  errno=2!
> 
> bruce
> 
> 

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[bbales <bb...@co...>]

Then this one from Till.

On Wednesday 01 December 2004 06:32, Till Kamppeter wrote:
>
> Can you print on it with the "ptal-print" command? If so, you have a
> CUPS problem and should perhaps better post on the CUPS mailing list.
>
>     Till

ptal-printd goodmen 
yields: 
ptal-printd(goodmen): ptalDeviceOpen failed  errno=2!

bruce

Re: [hpoj-devel] Re: PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[bbales <bb...@co...>]

On Thursday 02 December 2004 00:10, you wrote:
> "/etc/init.d/cups restart"
> "/etc/init.d/cupsd restart"
> "killall -HUP cupsd"

Apparently on RH 9 we use /etc/rc.d/init.d/cups restart.
It returned "stopping cups" and then "starting cups"

Then I did the     http://localhost:631 
and added a printer.  Everything went well and now on the localhost:631 
printers page I have two printers named pcs1200 and pcs1210.  Printing a test 
page with either one gets me the message "Could not connect to remote server"

'lpr goodmen' prints the file goodmen.

A picture in gimp doesn't print, even though gimp seems to think it is doing 
something -- no error messages.

kwrite shows psc1210 idle (accepting jobs) -- using cups.  And then it prints 
the page.  Hooray!

kmail prints too!

So now two projects -- (1) see how gimp print fits into this and what ails it.
and (2) move the printer to the other machine and do this all there.  again.

Many thanks,
bruce

[hpoj-devel] SOLVED: Re: HP LJ 3330 scanning problem.

[<ma...@na...>]

Hi, 
 
Problem was fixed by upgrading kernel from Gentoo 2.6.9 to vanilla 
2.6.10-rc2 and from devfs to udev.  
 
MZM 
 
>Hi,  
>  
>I connected my new HP LaserJet 3330 MPF to my new Gentoo box with  
>USB cable. I followed documentation found on hpoj page and all was  
>fine until I started to set up scanning. Printing works fine with  
>CUPS, but scanning always fails.  
>  
>I collected some info in attachment. Hope that will help to find 
out  
>the problem.  
>  
>Any ideas or additional info requests?  
>  
>TNX,  
>MZM.  
> 

-- 
Bezmaksas e-pasta adreses piedāvā http://webmail.delfi.lv/

Re: [hpoj-devel] Re: PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Tim F. <tf...@ti...>]

Hi Bruce,

Sorry, I forget which distribution you are using. In debian (which I'm 
using) you open a console, become root, and type: /etc/init.d/cupsys 
restart, but depending on your distribution one of the following may 
be appropriate (without the quotes):


"/etc/init.d/cups restart" 
"/etc/init.d/cupsd restart" 
"killall -HUP cupsd" 

Ater you have successfully restarted cups (which should only take a 
second or two) open up a web browser, and in the address field type: 
http://localhost:631

This will open up the cups web interface. (You will be prompted for 
your username and password--enter root for username and then type 
your root password.) Click on "manage printers" and in the next 
window select "add printer." In the next window you'll be asked to 
name your printer (call it anything, as long as it's one word with no 
spaces) The remaining two fields are optional--you can leave them 
blank--but for the location you can enter the hostname of whatever 
computer the printer is connected to, and in the description you can 
enter printer, or any other indentifying comment that you choose. 
Click continue and in the device field in the new window that opens 
you will see ptal as one option among many. You must choose ptal. 
Click continue again. In the next window choose a driver--you can 
check the sourceforge hpoj web site for the suggested driver for your 
printer: http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/suplist.shtml

Click continue one more time and you're done. You can then go back to 
the main cups web page and try printing a test page.

Hope this helps.

Tim

On Wednesday 01 December 2004 10:29 pm, bbales wrote:
> And from Tim.
>
> On Wednesday 01 December 2004 12:51, Tim Folger wrote:
> > Hi Bruce,
> >
> > Did you make sure to restart cups before you entered the cups web
> > interface? Unless you restart cups, you won't see the ptal option
> > under the device section, and you won't be able to print. (You
> > probably know this already, but I thought I'd mention it just in
> > case.)
> >
> > Tim
>
> I tried to restart cups:
> /usr/local/sbin/ptal-cups restart
>
> and I got the following:
> ptal-connect: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc_1200_series"... 
> successful.
>
> And never got a prompt back until I copied it with control-c.
>
> I don't know what you are referring to with "ptal option under
> device section in the cups web interface."  I see no device
> section.
> bruce

Re: [hpoj-devel] printing problems after upgrading ghostscript

[Nancy S. <sw...@ab...>]

On Wednesday 01 December 2004 19:30, you wrote:
> [ I am posting this to the HPOJ list again ]
>
> This is of your old HPIJS. Uninstall your old HPIJS (usually it is
> enough to delete/rename/move away /usr/bin/hpijs or /usr/local/bin/hpijs
>   Do "hpijs -h" again, you should get "Command not found". Then
> compile/install the new HPIJS with
>
> ./configure --prefix=/usr
> make
> make install
>
> Now do "hpijs -h" again, and you should get the message of the new
> HPIJS. The new HPIJS should have installed PPD files, too. So do
>

returns:
Hewlett-Packard Co. Inkjet Server 1.7.1
Copyright (c) 2001-2004, Hewlett-Packard Co.


> killall -HUP cupsd

returns:
cupsd: no process killed


>
> and re-install your print queue with the appropriate printer model entry
> labled with "Foomatic + hpijs".

huh?  If this is supposed to be in Yast2, it isn't an available option.

>
>     Till
>
> Nancy Swanson wrote:
> > I downloaded hpijs-1.7.1 and installed it.  No change.  I have
> > connectivity. The hpijs driver is installed.  hpijs -h returns:
> >
> > Hewlett-Packard Co. Inkjet Server 1.1
> > Copyright (c) 2001-2002, Hewlett-Packard Co.
> >
> > (it did before too.)
> >
> > It simply won't print.  The error message is just "unable to print job
> > blah blah".  I am using lpd and not cups.  lpd almost immediately removes
> > the job from the queue.
> >
> > Nancy
> >
> > On Wednesday 01 December 2004 09:26, you wrote:
> >>Get the newest version of HPIJS from http://hpinkjet.sf.net/
> >>
> >>    Till
> >>
> >>Nancy Swanson wrote:
> >>>I recently upgraded to ghostscript 8.14 (from 6.51) and now I can't
> >>>print.  I have a PSC 750.  It seems that it wants the hpijs driver which
> >>>the "new" ghostscript doesn't have.  It only has ijs.  gs -h only
> >>> returns ijs (along with other unrelated stuff), but not hpijs, nor any
> >>> of the DJ9xx and so on.
> >>>
> >>>What to do?  (the scanner works!!)
> >>>
> >>>thanks,
> >>>Nancy
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> >>Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> >>Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> >>http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>hpoj-devel mailing list
> >>hpo...@li...
> >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel

Re: [hpoj-devel] printing problems after upgrading ghostscript

[Till K. <til...@gm...>]

[ I am posting this to the HPOJ list again ]

This is of your old HPIJS. Uninstall your old HPIJS (usually it is 
enough to delete/rename/move away /usr/bin/hpijs or /usr/local/bin/hpijs 
  Do "hpijs -h" again, you should get "Command not found". Then 
compile/install the new HPIJS with

./configure --prefix=/usr
make
make install

Now do "hpijs -h" again, and you should get the message of the new 
HPIJS. The new HPIJS should have installed PPD files, too. So do

killall -HUP cupsd

and re-install your print queue with the appropriate printer model entry 
labled with "Foomatic + hpijs".

    Till


Nancy Swanson wrote:
> I downloaded hpijs-1.7.1 and installed it.  No change.  I have connectivity.  
> The hpijs driver is installed.  hpijs -h returns: 
> 
> Hewlett-Packard Co. Inkjet Server 1.1
> Copyright (c) 2001-2002, Hewlett-Packard Co.
> 
> (it did before too.)
> 
> It simply won't print.  The error message is just "unable to print job blah 
> blah".  I am using lpd and not cups.  lpd almost immediately removes the job 
> from the queue.
> 
> Nancy
> 
> 
> On Wednesday 01 December 2004 09:26, you wrote:
> 
>>Get the newest version of HPIJS from http://hpinkjet.sf.net/
>>
>>    Till
>>
>>Nancy Swanson wrote:
>>
>>>I recently upgraded to ghostscript 8.14 (from 6.51) and now I can't
>>>print.  I have a PSC 750.  It seems that it wants the hpijs driver which
>>>the "new" ghostscript doesn't have.  It only has ijs.  gs -h only returns
>>>ijs (along with other unrelated stuff), but not hpijs, nor any of the
>>>DJ9xx and so on.
>>>
>>>What to do?  (the scanner works!!)
>>>
>>>thanks,
>>>Nancy
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
>>Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
>>Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
>>http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>hpoj-devel mailing list
>>hpo...@li...
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel
> 
> 

[hpoj-devel] Re: hpoj-devel digest, Vol 1 #1265 - 8 msgs

[JMaupertuis <jm...@wa...>]

hpo...@li... a écrit :

>Send hpoj-devel mailing list submissions to
>	hpo...@li...
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hpoj-devel
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>	hpo...@li...
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>	hpo...@li...
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of hpoj-devel digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error) (bbales)
>   2. OT: Fwd: Feedback to Carly (t takahashi)
>   3. Re: Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error) (Joe Piolunek)
>   4. Re: OT: Fwd: Feedback to Carly (Cory Meisch)
>   5. Re: Future of hpoj (Cory Meisch)
>   6. Re: Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error) (Cory Meisch)
>   7. Sentiments (Cory Meisch)
>   8. Re: Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error) (t takahashi)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>From: bbales <bb...@co...>
>Reply-To: bb...@co...
>To: hpo...@li...
>Subject: Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)
>Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:03:30 -0500
>
>On Monday 29 November 2004 14:25, Roberto Winter wrote:
>  
>
>>I have a psc1210 and so far I can't
>>make it work correctly, not that I am trying, I did already and since
>>then nothing new happened to the project, so I don't think the printer
>>would magically start working if I continued trying.
>>
>>Roberto.
>>    
>>
>
>I also have a PSC1210.  After several months fighting it, I found a small note 
>on the hpoj site that the PSC1210 won't print and scan at the same time with 
>hpoj-0.91.  They say you need to load the CVS version. 
>
>So I spent three hours trying to get 
>cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj co hpoj
>to work.  Never get a prompt back and it eventually times out.
>cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/hpoj login
>asks for a password, but never get prompt back after newline.
>
>My previous post (Nov.24) was never answered.
>
>This just isn't any way to get Linux onto the desktop.  I'll bet it will be 
>easier to switch my wife to windows than to get her printer working.
>bruce 
>
>
>
>  
>
I use a PSC1210 for mare than 6 months unsder Fedora Core 1 without  
problems. What is your distribution? Do you follow step by step the 
installation guide? what is the anaswer of ptal-init setup?
Jean

[hpoj-devel] Re: PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Tim F. <nai...@ea...>]

Hi Bruce,

Did you make sure to restart cups before you entered the cups web 
interface? Unless you restart cups, you won't see the ptal option 
under the device section, and you won't be able to print. (You 
probably know this already, but I thought I'd mention it just in 
case.)

Tim

Re: [hpoj-devel] printing problems after upgrading ghostscript

[Till K. <til...@gm...>]

Get the newest version of HPIJS from http://hpinkjet.sf.net/

    Till


Nancy Swanson wrote:
> I recently upgraded to ghostscript 8.14 (from 6.51) and now I can't print.  I 
> have a PSC 750.  It seems that it wants the hpijs driver which the "new" 
> ghostscript doesn't have.  It only has ijs.  gs -h only returns ijs (along 
> with other unrelated stuff), but not hpijs, nor any of the DJ9xx and so on.
> 
> What to do?  (the scanner works!!)
> 
> thanks,
> Nancy

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[Laurence O. <lau...@or...>]

It might also be worth having a look at these pages:-

http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005315.html
http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005312.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005314.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005317.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005323.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005344.html
http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005313.html
http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/05/ke_hp-officejet.html

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Laurence O. <lau...@or...>]

It might also be worth having a look at these pages:-

http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005315.html
http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005312.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005314.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005317.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005323.html
	http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005344.html
http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005313.html
http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/05/ke_hp-officejet.html

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Laurence O. <lau...@or...>]

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 04:31, bbales wrote:
> Think of me as a newby with a five-week-old PSC1210.
> Somewhere I'm missing something.  I can scan, but can't print.  Running RedHat 
> 9.0.  Printer is HP PSC1210 and I had previously set it up on another older 
> and slower RH 9 system and it printed (with "lpr <file-name>" only) and 
> scanned.  Wouldn't print a cups test page.
> 
> On my wife's machine it won't print at all, but scans.
> 
> installed libusb-0.1.6-3
> installed libusb-devel-0.1.6-3
> installed hpijs-1.6.1-1
> installed hpoj-0.91-1
> 
> as root, /usr/local/sbin/ptal-init setup
> 
> in cups (http://localhost:631)  select "add a printer" and select the device:
> 
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-device
> mlc:usb:psc1200
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-devid
> MFG:Hewlett-Packard;MDL:psc 1200
> series;CMD:LDL,MLC,PML,DYN;CLS:PRINTER;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;SN:CN42QG301Y5H;S:0380008000820000002c1481061c
> 2501061;
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-print `ptal-device` </dev/null
> ptal-print: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-connect `ptal-device` -service ECHO
> ptal-connect: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
> goneaway
> goneaway                        
> blahblah
> blahblah
> 
> [betty@betty log]$ su
> Password:
> [root@betty log]# ptal-init start
> 
> Stopping the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
> Starting the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
>     mlc:usb:psc1200
> 
> [root@betty log]#
> 
> Try to print a test page with http://localhost:631  and get:
> Could not connect to remote server.
> http://betty:631/printers/psd1200?op=print-test-page
> 
> In a shell, I try "lpr testing " and it comes back with the prompt like it 
> sent it, but nothing from the printer and
> "lpq"  gives me
> "psc1200 is ready     no entries"
> 
> /var/log/messages says "psc1200 successfully initialized"
> 
> bruce
I'm Presuming here that you have checked that the relevant servers are
running:- cups, cups-lpd, hpoj, httpd, ptal-init, xinetd

&

on the cups page the printer is accepting jobs and is started.

there was a problem with ptal-init where it didn't like the 'LANG='
shell variable set to anything but 'C', but I guess you've caught that
one!

Laurence 

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Till K. <til...@gm...>]

bbales wrote:
> Think of me as a newby with a five-week-old PSC1210.

[...]

> Try to print a test page with http://localhost:631  and get:
> Could not connect to remote server.
> http://betty:631/printers/psd1200?op=print-test-page
> 
> In a shell, I try "lpr testing " and it comes back with the prompt like it 
> sent it, but nothing from the printer and
> "lpq"  gives me
> "psc1200 is ready     no entries"
> 

Can you print on it with the "ptal-print" command? If so, you have a 
CUPS problem and should perhaps better post on the CUPS mailing list.

    Till

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[Darragh B. <fe...@co...>]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, t takahashi wrote:

> My issue is with the ADF, not printing.

Started to lose track of this discussion so I went and looked at the bug
note on the debian lists you pointed to :)


> Correct about the stopped working.  Incorrect about the versions.  I
> don't know where you got the number 3 from.  After a few weeks (I will
> have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner
> stopped working.  I did not change any Debian versions.  I stayed with
> Sarge for the entire time.  I did not change kernels.  I did not
> reinstall.  I did not add hardware.

But you did perform an upgrade. Not quite the same case as you but I use
RedHat (7.3, 8.0, 9.0, FC1 & now FC2) and I definitely remember in
certain cases the scripts being executed by the package when I upgraded
packages such as the hpoj being borked. They ended up rendering my
printer virtually useless until I managed to remove all setup information
and reconfigure it correctly from scratch. (PSC 2410)

Lately it has just worked nicely, but it could provide an explaination of
whats gone wrong, bad setup rather than bad software.


> What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which,
> if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else
> relevant, something might possibly have changed.  Note: *possibly*; we
> don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able
> to look at all of the debugging output yet.

Looking at the debug output and looking at some email threads online, just
wondering if your system has detected and configured the printer directly
and caused a problem with the ptal system.


Tbh I don't understand fully the debug output but just wondering if you
looked at the following websites that deal with printing on Linux.

Contains details about the level of functionality of your printer with the
hpoj system:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-OfficeJet_6110

Could you be experiencing something similar to the following email
thread, doesn't sound exactly the same but same printer and issues with
scanning:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q3/005312.html

Finally some details from the SUSE website that are related to setting up
your printer, not 100% accurate since your using debian but might be of
assistance:
http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/05/ke_hp-officejet.html


Have you tried disconnecting the device, booting up and removing all
current setup data for it and then connect it and reconfigure from
scratch via the command line?

--
Darragh

"Nothing's foolproof to a sufficently talented fool"

Re: [hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[Laurence O. <Lau...@te...>]

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 04:31, bbales wrote:
> Think of me as a newby with a five-week-old PSC1210.
> Somewhere I'm missing something.  I can scan, but can't print.  Running RedHat 
> 9.0.  Printer is HP PSC1210 and I had previously set it up on another older 
> and slower RH 9 system and it printed (with "lpr <file-name>" only) and 
> scanned.  Wouldn't print a cups test page.
> 
> On my wife's machine it won't print at all, but scans.
> 
> installed libusb-0.1.6-3
> installed libusb-devel-0.1.6-3
> installed hpijs-1.6.1-1
> installed hpoj-0.91-1
> 
> as root, /usr/local/sbin/ptal-init setup
> 
> in cups (http://localhost:631)  select "add a printer" and select the device:
> 
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-device
> mlc:usb:psc1200
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-devid
> MFG:Hewlett-Packard;MDL:psc 1200
> series;CMD:LDL,MLC,PML,DYN;CLS:PRINTER;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;SN:CN42QG301Y5H;S:0380008000820000002c1481061c
> 2501061;
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-print `ptal-device` </dev/null
> ptal-print: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
> [betty@betty log]$ ptal-connect `ptal-device` -service ECHO
> ptal-connect: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
> goneaway
> goneaway                        
> blahblah
> blahblah
> 
> [betty@betty log]$ su
> Password:
> [root@betty log]# ptal-init start
> 
> Stopping the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
> Starting the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
>     mlc:usb:psc1200
> 
> [root@betty log]#
> 
> Try to print a test page with http://localhost:631  and get:
> Could not connect to remote server.
> http://betty:631/printers/psd1200?op=print-test-page
> 
> In a shell, I try "lpr testing " and it comes back with the prompt like it 
> sent it, but nothing from the printer and
> "lpq"  gives me
> "psc1200 is ready     no entries"
> 
> /var/log/messages says "psc1200 successfully initialized"
> 
> bruce
I'm Presuming here that you have checked that the relevant servers are
running:- cups, cups-lpd, hpoj, httpd, ptal-init, xinetd

&

on the cups page the printer is accepting jobs and is started.

there was a problem with ptal-init where it didn't like the 'LANG='
shell variable set to anything but 'C', but I guess you've caught that
one!

Laurence 

[hpoj-devel] printing problems after upgrading ghostscript

[Nancy S. <sw...@ab...>]

I recently upgraded to ghostscript 8.14 (from 6.51) and now I can't print.  I 
have a PSC 750.  It seems that it wants the hpijs driver which the "new" 
ghostscript doesn't have.  It only has ijs.  gs -h only returns ijs (along 
with other unrelated stuff), but not hpijs, nor any of the DJ9xx and so on.

What to do?  (the scanner works!!)

thanks,
Nancy

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[James B. H. <jh...@vi...>]

Hi!

> Thanks for replying.

You bet.  (I'll get off this thread with this email, since it's way
OT now.  My apologies in advance).

> I wouldn't normally use up this much bandwidth, but actually your
> intuition seems to be incorrect in this case:

Ok, will certainly buy that for now (until <whine> I have time to
look at what you've posted for details <unwhine>).

> > a.  Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest
> > things for most people to set up correctly under linux.
> 
> My issue is with the ADF, not printing.

Ok.  I probably got my wires crossed between you and Roberto, who has
the 1210 that he can't get to print.  By the time I was reading this, and
seeing the "it's useless" gist, I was forgetting that your issue was
ADF, and that his was "doesn't work".  My bad.  I should know better
than to comment without careful review.

> (Even though the black ink ran out when an undocumented feature of
> ptal-pml says that the black level is 50%, that is.)

IIRC, there was some discussion on-list between Sep-Nov 03, one or
two posts maybe, about the then-status and developer's intent for
this particular family of features.  Bottom line was, intent was
there, but lower on the priority list and didn't get done before
the realignment of David-off, Cory-on.

> CUPS was easy to set up.  Surprisingly pleasant, actually.

Can't deal with it.  Glad it's good for you :-)

> My issue, which again is about the ADF, is documented in
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 .

Ok, tomorrow will have the look I should have taken before firing
my yap.

> > c.  I have had a 7130 since March.  Every function on it that hpoj IS
> > intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that
> 
> Glad it works for you.  My 6110 does not work for me.  We can trade,
> if you want.  :-)

's'ok.  The only badness I have so far, and it clearly is a hard/firmware
issue, is that the fax auto-answer gets easily confused over incoming voice
vs. fax call, and triggers on many voice calls, especially when there is
a cordless or cell on the other end; even more odd is that it will do so
even when the minimum ring count threshold hasn't yet been met.

> > f.  Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then
> > wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since
> > then.
> 
> Correct about the stopped working.  Incorrect about the versions.  I
> don't know where you got the number 3 from.  After a few weeks (I will
> have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner
> stopped working.  I did not change any Debian versions.  I stayed with
> Sarge for the entire time.  I did not change kernels.  I did not
> reinstall.  I did not add hardware.

Again, my imprecision.  Should have said "releases" vice "versions".
But something happened, probably not bitrot in hpoj...

> What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which,
> if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else
> relevant, something might possibly have changed.  Note: *possibly*; we
> don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able
> to look at all of the debugging output yet.

Wouldn't likely have been different hpoj, as there hasn't been one in
a year.  Could have been different something else.  I'm putting my $2
bet on that.

> > As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help
> > you set up your configuration.  But I'm certain that that's where
> > the issue lies.  [...]
> 
> What in the debugging output makes you certain of this?  I'm not

Nothing yet - that's what I meant about not yet having put the time into
looking in detail.  But I'm challenged by it, so I will.  Not that I'll
find anything, but... maybe.

> saying you're wrong -- might be some SMP thing I have to do that was
> too obscure to figure out from the documentation (I know about the
> printer.c thing) and not handled properly by Debian's scripts -- but
> I'm wondering what error message or scanner behavior led you to be
> certain?  That way I can try tweaking whatever you think is relevant. 
> (Assuming you have time to explain your reasoning, it would be
> helpful.)

The reasoning so far was as in a. through e. points previously, nothing
detailed based on data.  Now that you've pointed out my confusion of
your statements, I'll hang it purely on my visceral, euphemistic observations
about distributions.

> > just work, one will surely be disappointed.  (This is a big reason
> > why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what
> > it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go).
> 
> Never mess with distributions?  You mean you get the kernel and
> utilities and applications all separately and create your own
> filesystem structure?  WOW!  You're way more macho than me.  :-) 

That is exactly what I do.  I borrow some basics from Slackware, which I
believe is the purest of distributions.  Basics meaning, some infrastructure
items I just don't feel like building (gcc, g++, libc, some necessary but
boring utilities, like groff), and the basic filesystem structure, plus
the rc.X contents... and then I get everything else and build from
scratch.  The most painful one is gnome, but it's not bad.

> Again, WOW!  May I say it again?  WOW!  :-)

Not needed.  It's a great way to stay up on things.

> Me, I'm a serious wimp.  I just get Debian and run apt-get, and answer
> the configuration questions it asks me, and if something doesn't work
> then poke around as best as possible in the documentation or scripts. 
> But I got as far as I could with this one and can't go any farther
> without somebody more knowledgable (again WOW!  :-)) than myself
> reading the debugging output and helping me figure out what the
> problem is.  Granted, I should know more, and I am trying to, but I
> got as far as I could.

Roger that.  Just asking that you recognize the possibility/probability
that, without opening the hood, it's hard to declare with any certainty
which hose is leaking.

> FWIW the Debian hpoj maintainer says that it seems to be an hpoj
> problem rather than a Debian problem or a hardware problem.  And the
> Debian Sane maintainer says that it's an hpoj problem rather than a
> Sane problem.  For all I know, it's sunspots corrupting the USB cable.

Two items there.  First, the classic "it's not mine" response.  Almost
never have I found that to be correct, even after a thumbnail assessment.
The other - my own experience has shown basic linux USB behavior to be
pretty flaky, at least using my particular mobo (Tyan S2460, also SMP).
Nothing directly clear to me, but also nothing to do with any particular
application or library - it's either driver or driver/hardware combination.
I can give you more anecdotes on that off-list if you like.

> (Hmm, maybe you mean you mean that you do cd /usr/local/...; tar -xvf;
> ./Configure.  IMHO that's what apt-get does, except that it does it
> for me and it puts things in the right places so I don't have to
> figure out where the right places are.  I could try to do that all
> myself, but I doubt that I would do a better job than the Debian
> maintainer who has been following the technical issues and knows what
> "usbdevfs", "usbfs", "devfs", or "udev" might or might not have to do
> with the devices.)

Kinda like that, except it's ./configure, as in configure-then-compile/install.
Do that for everything, with minor exceptions.  Lets me study stuff, and
set up my whole box exactly the way I want it.

> > NOTE:  I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse
> > to work.  How lame is that?
> 
> What, you singlehandedly maintain your own distribution and you can't
> get a mouse to work?  :-)  Well, I know what you mean.  I find Linux
> easier also.

Trust me - it's nothing I'm doing or failing to do :-)  I have no ability
to caress any of it.  Install just doesn't pick it up, and there's nothing
I can do to force it.  Had the same trouble with Win2k a year ago.  Then
one day, it magically picked it up.  Sunspots, yes.

> > Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it
> > to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got
> > a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then.
> 
> Hmm, I don't recall saying that in email off-list.  On-list, I recall

Not directly.  It was brief references.  Again, searching on 6110 in the
archive turns up nothing until your Hail Mary post.

> saying that I posted via gmane then and got various indications that
> it did post, including the actual post to gmane, believe it or not. 
> Don't know why it would post to gmane but not the list.

No clue either.  Suggest you search the archive on the date you sent it,
and see if it's there.  I think it isn't, and I don't recall seeing via
email with your name until the Hail Mary either.

> And please sometime share your distribution with us wimps.  Maybe it
> will be better than Debian.  :-)

Will describe off-list, if you like.

jbh

[hpoj-devel] PSC 1210 - can scan but can't print

[bbales <bb...@co...>]

Think of me as a newby with a five-week-old PSC1210.
Somewhere I'm missing something.  I can scan, but can't print.  Running RedHat 
9.0.  Printer is HP PSC1210 and I had previously set it up on another older 
and slower RH 9 system and it printed (with "lpr <file-name>" only) and 
scanned.  Wouldn't print a cups test page.

On my wife's machine it won't print at all, but scans.

installed libusb-0.1.6-3
installed libusb-devel-0.1.6-3
installed hpijs-1.6.1-1
installed hpoj-0.91-1

as root, /usr/local/sbin/ptal-init setup

in cups (http://localhost:631)  select "add a printer" and select the device:

[betty@betty log]$ ptal-device
mlc:usb:psc1200
[betty@betty log]$ ptal-devid
MFG:Hewlett-Packard;MDL:psc 1200
series;CMD:LDL,MLC,PML,DYN;CLS:PRINTER;1284.4DL:4d,4e,1;SN:CN42QG301Y5H;S:0380008000820000002c1481061c
2501061;
[betty@betty log]$ ptal-print `ptal-device` </dev/null
ptal-print: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
[betty@betty log]$ ptal-connect `ptal-device` -service ECHO
ptal-connect: connecting to device "mlc:usb:psc1200"...  successful.
goneaway
goneaway                        
blahblah
blahblah

[betty@betty log]$ su
Password:
[root@betty log]# ptal-init start

Stopping the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
Starting the HP OfficeJet Linux driver.
    mlc:usb:psc1200

[root@betty log]#

Try to print a test page with http://localhost:631  and get:
Could not connect to remote server.
http://betty:631/printers/psd1200?op=print-test-page

In a shell, I try "lpr testing " and it comes back with the prompt like it 
sent it, but nothing from the printer and
"lpq"  gives me
"psc1200 is ready     no entries"

/var/log/messages says "psc1200 successfully initialized"

bruce

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[t t. <gam...@gm...>]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:45:39 -0500 (EST), James B. Hiller
<jh...@vi...> wrote:
> said, I'm intuitively certain that the problems you're having have nothing
> to do with hpoj.  Here is my evidence:

Thanks for replying.

I wouldn't normally use up this much bandwidth, but actually your
intuition seems to be incorrect in this case:

> a.  Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest
> things for most people to set up correctly under linux.

My issue is with the ADF, not printing.

(Even though the black ink ran out when an undocumented feature of
ptal-pml says that the black level is 50%, that is.)

CUPS was easy to set up.  Surprisingly pleasant, actually.

My issue, which again is about the ADF, is documented in
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 .

> c.  I have had a 7130 since March.  Every function on it that hpoj IS
> intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that

Glad it works for you.  My 6110 does not work for me.  We can trade,
if you want.  :-)

> f.  Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then
> wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since
> then.

Correct about the stopped working.  Incorrect about the versions.  I
don't know where you got the number 3 from.  After a few weeks (I will
have to look at the receipt and my notes and logs), the scanner
stopped working.  I did not change any Debian versions.  I stayed with
Sarge for the entire time.  I did not change kernels.  I did not
reinstall.  I did not add hardware.

What I DID do is normal apt-get upgrade of Sarge packages, in which,
if there is a new version of hpoj or libusb* or sane or anything else
relevant, something might possibly have changed.  Note: *possibly*; we
don't know the cause of the problem yet, because nobody has been able
to look at all of the debugging output yet.

> As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help
> you set up your configuration.  But I'm certain that that's where
> the issue lies.  [...]

What in the debugging output makes you certain of this?  I'm not
saying you're wrong -- might be some SMP thing I have to do that was
too obscure to figure out from the documentation (I know about the
printer.c thing) and not handled properly by Debian's scripts -- but
I'm wondering what error message or scanner behavior led you to be
certain?  That way I can try tweaking whatever you think is relevant. 
(Assuming you have time to explain your reasoning, it would be
helpful.)

> just work, one will surely be disappointed.  (This is a big reason
> why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what
> it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go).

Never mess with distributions?  You mean you get the kernel and
utilities and applications all separately and create your own
filesystem structure?  WOW!  You're way more macho than me.  :-) 
Again, WOW!  May I say it again?  WOW!  :-)

Me, I'm a serious wimp.  I just get Debian and run apt-get, and answer
the configuration questions it asks me, and if something doesn't work
then poke around as best as possible in the documentation or scripts. 
But I got as far as I could with this one and can't go any farther
without somebody more knowledgable (again WOW!  :-)) than myself
reading the debugging output and helping me figure out what the
problem is.  Granted, I should know more, and I am trying to, but I
got as far as I could.

FWIW the Debian hpoj maintainer says that it seems to be an hpoj
problem rather than a Debian problem or a hardware problem.  And the
Debian Sane maintainer says that it's an hpoj problem rather than a
Sane problem.  For all I know, it's sunspots corrupting the USB cable.

(Hmm, maybe you mean you mean that you do cd /usr/local/...; tar -xvf;
./Configure.  IMHO that's what apt-get does, except that it does it
for me and it puts things in the right places so I don't have to
figure out where the right places are.  I could try to do that all
myself, but I doubt that I would do a better job than the Debian
maintainer who has been following the technical issues and knows what
"usbdevfs", "usbfs", "devfs", or "udev" might or might not have to do
with the devices.)

> With linux, you get visibility and flexibility, as a trade to "everything
> works out of the box."  The community is trying hard to provide "out of the
> box", but there are extremes that can't (and probably shouldn't) be
> reconciled.

Agreed.

> NOTE:  I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse
> to work.  How lame is that?

What, you singlehandedly maintain your own distribution and you can't
get a mouse to work?  :-)  Well, I know what you mean.  I find Linux
easier also.

> Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it
> to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got
> a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then.

Hmm, I don't recall saying that in email off-list.  On-list, I recall
saying that I posted via gmane then and got various indications that
it did post, including the actual post to gmane, believe it or not. 
Don't know why it would post to gmane but not the list.

Thanks for replying.

And please sometime share your distribution with us wimps.  Maybe it
will be better than Debian.  :-)

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[James B. H. <jh...@vi...>]

Hi.

I know the fact that I'm not throwing my hand in to help debug the
problem in detail may not be of much use, but let me try to give
a somewhat-hopeful response.

> If I had known that, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on my
> now-useless 6110.

This is the main point I haven't had time to address.  From what you've
said, I'm intuitively certain that the problems you're having have nothing
to do with hpoj.  Here is my evidence:

a.  Historically, printing (anything, on anything) is one of the hardest
things for most people to set up correctly under linux.

b.  Depending on how you set up the pipeline, there can be anywhere from
2 to 5, maybe 6 separate pieces of software that have to be configured
correctly, with a variety of settings to be checked and glued together
in your particular context.

c.  I have had a 7130 since March.  Every function on it that hpoj IS
intended to support works just fine (and those functionalities that it
never got to are well-documented in list traffic in a number places;
things like copy control from the computer; fax control from the
computer; and a number display- and computer-based setting functions).

d.  The 6110 is in the same family as the 7130.

e.  It took me about 15 minutes to get my 7130 completely functional,
after having a setup for a 1998-vintage OJ 1170C (no card reader, no
fax).  Everything works fine, and has been working fine.

f.  Believe you'd said that your 6110 once was working, and then
wasn't; and that you'd gone through about 3 Debian versions since
then.

As above, I'm sorry (truly) that I just haven't had the time to help
you set up your configuration.  But I'm certain that that's where
the issue lies.  Please don't beat on HP for that - the issue comes
from the reliance, as you indicated earlier, on packaged versions of
stuff.  If one doesn't go past the packaging and expects stuff to
just work, one will surely be disappointed.  (This is a big reason
why I never mess with distributions - just get stuff, understand what
it does, build it myself, set it the way I want it, and go).

With linux, you get visibility and flexibility, as a trade to "everything
works out of the box."  The community is trying hard to provide "out of the
box", but there are extremes that can't (and probably shouldn't) be
reconciled.

NOTE:  I just put XP on my wife's machine, and I can't get a serial mouse
to work.  How lame is that?

> > I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting
> > another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because HP's
> > meager Linux support is better than its competitors'.
> 
> Please somebody tell me that this isn't true.

If you've only recently driven into linux, then you'll unfortunately have
your eyes opened to this soon.  HP support, via hpoj, hpinkjet, and
other venues, is far and away better than most hardware companies'.

I've been using linux more or less exclusively for 11 years, and this
has been clear since day 1.  This is why there's a Hardware-HOWTO.
Hardware compatibility (more correctly, the presence of drivers for
one's particular set of toys) is always the key, and one must always
dig into the pedigree of "linux support" before making a purchase to
ensure a successful purchase.

11 years ago, no company ever avowed "linux support".  Now a lot do, but
only as an advertising buzzword.  The knowledgable consumer has to work
past this and trust, but verify.

OT, but case in point:  just bought a cable modem (Zoom 5001, PCI).  Right
on the slick sheet:  "Linux Drivers!"  Yeah, ok.  So I see that, buy the
modem, plug it in.  Driver won't compile.  After two days of google, I
came across 3 message threads that, when taken together (but not directly)
lead me to conclude that the modem IS supported by a Conexant driver already
built into the kernel (same chipset).  I simply turn on that driver in
the kernel, and BOOM - bits fly!  I report back to Zoom what I found, and
say "gee, you'd help out many a newbie, and probably generate sales, by
getting rid of your old driver on the site and just saying 'for linux,
turn on option X in the kernel".

Sent this to 3 company offices - no reply.  This should have been a
no-brainer.

So while Zoom confuses, and wasted two days of my time, at least with HP
there are SIGNIFICANT resources devoted.

Also, like I said earlier - I don't think your original post ever made it
to the list (and you said as much in later email to me off-list), so you got
a long lag in getting an answer, since no one saw it back then.

regards,
jbh

Re: [hpoj-devel] OT: Fwd: Feedback to Carly

[t t. <gam...@gm...>]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:22:01 -0800, Cory Meisch <cor...@hp...> wrote:
> To be honest, I am not very Debian savvy. My recommendation at this
> point would be to hang on for a couple of days and I'm pretty sure I can
> easily fix your issue...

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[t t. <gam...@gm...>]

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:21:22 -0500, Paul Mahon
<duf...@du...> wrote:
> have an HP printer. Ranting about executive toys adds nothing.

Paul, honestly, I really think that in context it was legitimately
relevant and not just a rant.  There has not yet been a flame war and
I would hate for the discussion of the viability of the project to
turn into one.  We're all rooting for it to be viable.

In case you'd like more detail on why it's legitimate:

I was responding to a theory that MS was behind things, and suggesting
that a principal/agent conflict of interest might be the cause
instead.  Because I believe that, I therefore don't want people
blaming MS or Cory or other HP people or anybody else -- that would
likely be unproductive -- but looking at the possibility that it is a
structural problem at HP (for which in any company upper management is
essentially always responsible).  To me, that's directly relevant to
the desire of many list members to gauge the viability of the project,
and indeed relevant to deciding whether it is necessary to fork it as
you suggested.

In other words, the relevance is to the viability of the project.  We
hadn't seen Cory's post yet.

(The agent/principal point was the point itself.  I did use the word
"toys" without any direct evidence that any HP executives play with
toys per se, but the rhetorical device of hyperbole, especially in a
<harsh> tag from somebody who just went through a nightmare with HP,
is meant to be taken as a legitimate non-literal mode of expression. 
I doubt anybody really thought I was literally accusing Ms. Fiorina of
buying a fighter jet at the expense of HP.    A vivid non-literal
image of corporate governance gone awry illustrates the conflict of
interest and might even put a smile on the lips of a reader who has
just banged his head against the wall of HP's web site.  Some list
members do perceive a problem at HP, for better or worse, and if you
do not perceive a problem, that's perfectly OK (you can try to
convince me), but it's also perfectly OK to speculate about the cause
of the problem because that affects our estimates of the viability of
the hpoj project for which this list is maintained.)

Please, no flames.  Although you probably didn't mean it that way, I
think your post is on the same order of magnitude of accusatoriness
toward us "kids" as people are toward HP.

I'll retract the executive toys figure of speech if you want, but my
opinion about the lack of support probably not being due to anything
other than upper management still stands, and is relevant (even if
your opinion differs).

And yes, it is open source.  HP can abandon it if it wants.  But as
customers we'd like to figure out if that is their intention or not. 
Fair game for discussion, IMHO.

Re: [hpoj-devel] OT: Fwd: Feedback to Carly

[Cory M. <cor...@hp...>]

To be honest, I am not very Debian savvy. My recommendation at this
point would be to hang on for a couple of days and I'm pretty sure I can
easily fix your issue...

Cory
hp linux printing team

On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 14:09 -0700, t takahashi wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:49:53 -0800, Cory Meisch <cor...@hp...> wrote:
> > Are you having a Linux issue or is this Windows related? I'm sorry that
> > I have not been more responsive...
> 
> Thanks for replying.
> 
> It is a Linux issue.  The device is essentially completely useless to
> me now, and has been for months.  And its function is really
> important.  To be honest, I am at the end of my rope on this.
> 
> Nobody has yet looked at all of the detailed debugging output that is
> at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272304 and also
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=283018 .
> 
> If that is not enough to find out where the problem is, then I will do
>  anything that I am asked to do.
> 
> I do not have the ability to debug beyond what I already have.  No
> responses on sane mailing list, debian-user, sourceforge forum, or
> elsewhere.  Contacting HP through official channels (in case it's
> hardware- or firmware-related or in case they feel like helping with a
> Linux problem by some unusual alignment of the planets) is of course
> useless.  I am stuck on this.
> 
> Regarding my letter to Carly, there is no way that she or anybody
> useful will ever see it given the email addresses that I used. 
> However, if you were to forward it to a manager or two at HP using an
> internal addresss, it would avoid dropping into a black hole.  I spent
> way too long on the nonsense that led to that letter.
------------------------------------ 
Cory Meisch  
HP Linux Test Technician 
(360) 212-7009 
------------------------------------- 
Kafka's Law: In the fight between you and the world, back the world. --
Franz Kafka, "RS's 1974 Expectation of Days" 
------------------------------------- 
****** Current Weather for Portland, OR ****** 
Temperature: 46.0 F 
Conditions: Overcast and overcast

Re: [hpoj-devel] Is ANYBODY there? (was: i/o error)

[Paul M. <duf...@du...>]

Shush kids. Cory has suggested that there will be an announcement this
week which will help clarify the current situation. You do realize that
hpoj is open source and as such, if you feel that the developers have
not been doing a good enough job, fork the project. If your issue is
with HP policy I would suggest complaining to HP directly, a letter
would be be the most effective format (a real live dead tree letter).
Most of the people on this list have nothing to do with HP except they
have an HP printer. Ranting about executive toys adds nothing.

On Tue, 2004-30-11 at 13:20 -0700, t takahashi wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:56:43 -0500, Joe Piolunek <joe...@sn...> =
wrote:
> > There don't seem to have been any updates to the code in CVS for at lea=
st 12
> > months. hpoj-0.91 was packaged from whatever code was in=20
>=20
> If I had known that, I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on my
> now-useless 6110.
>=20
> > antitrust enforcement, suggests that we can expect MS to be applying pr=
essure
> > on HP to force them not to assist Linux.
>=20
> <harsh>
> Are you sure it isn't because upper management is more concerned with
> golden parachutes and executive toys than long-term viability of the
> company?  I see it as a classic agent/principal conflict of interest.
>=20
> I don't see MS lurking behind this, because the hostility toward Linux
> would be more straightforward at HP if it were.  HP will definitely
> get bitten for a lip-service-only policy.  It would probably be better
> for them to drop Linux entirely if MS were really capable of forcing
> that.  I blame apathy (see above) and bureaucracy (see my letter to
> Carly).  As much as I dislike MS's violation of open standards.
> </harsh>
>=20
> > I share your disappointment with HP, but I would still consider getting
> > another HP printer, though a more linux-compatible one, if only because=
 HP's
> > meager Linux support is better than its competitors'.
>=20
> Please somebody tell me that this isn't true.
>=20
>=20
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>=20
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>=20