From: Bob M. <rmc...@li...> - 2010-02-25 14:12:27
|
Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. Recently I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have several databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have the same name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those updates into a single database. As a side question, is there any way to configure Gramps to use one of my PostgreSQL servers for the database? Thank you, Bob McConnell N2SPP |
From: Doug B. <dou...@gm...> - 2010-02-25 14:51:37
|
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: > Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. Recently > I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I > didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was > creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have several > databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to > the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have the same > name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those > updates into a single database. Bob, It isn't exactly clear what you have done, but it sounds like you have a mess, and I don't think that there is any easy way to undo this. In Gramps 3.1, one imports a GEDCOM (or any other format) into a database. You never need to export your data unless you want to share it. Every change is made to the database without you needing to save anything. There is no "file" to be updated, and you don't open a GEDCOM file---you import them into a database. It sounds like you will have to manually find the updated information in all of the versions. You might be able to use the "last modified date" which is available to see on all of the views. You might want to spend some time reading the extensive users manual: http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=User_manual > As a side question, is there any way to configure Gramps to use one of > my PostgreSQL servers for the database? There is a new project underway called "gramps-connect" that can use a PostgreSQL database. It isn't quite complete yet, but you need to get your gramps data straighten out first anyway. Once you have your data ready, you can create a Postgresql database and export your data to it. For more details, see: http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_013:_GRAMPS_Webapp -Doug > > Thank you, > > Bob McConnell > N2SPP > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > |
From: Bob M. <rmc...@li...> - 2010-02-25 16:27:42
|
Doug Blank wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: >> Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. Recently >> I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I >> didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was >> creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have several >> databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to >> the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have the same >> name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those >> updates into a single database. > > Bob, > > It isn't exactly clear what you have done, but it sounds like you have > a mess, and I don't think that there is any easy way to undo this. In > Gramps 3.1, one imports a GEDCOM (or any other format) into a > database. You never need to export your data unless you want to share > it. Every change is made to the database without you needing to save > anything. There is no "file" to be updated, and you don't open a > GEDCOM file---you import them into a database. What I did was go into the file manager and open the .GED file with Gramps, just like I did with 2.0. I did this several times, apparently automatically importing the file into a new database each time. Since I thought Gramps was still a file editor, like 2.0 was, that was the way I approached it. Since it is not, it appears I need to find a different tool or go back to 2.0. I have no use for a unique database just to hold this information. I simply want to update the .GED files that I exchange with other members of the family. What I don't understand is how this happened repeatedly without any warnings, and with all of the databases being assigned the same name. >> As a side question, is there any way to configure Gramps to use one of >> my PostgreSQL servers for the database? > > There is a new project underway called "gramps-connect" that can use a > PostgreSQL database. It isn't quite complete yet, but you need to get > your gramps data straighten out first anyway. Once you have your data > ready, you can create a Postgresql database and export your data to > it. For more details, see: Export is the wrong option. Having the data locked up in a specialized private data structure is also the wrong option. If it were kept in a real RDBMS, it would be possible to fabricate queries to generate useful information, tables, charts, etc. But the way it appears you have the application structured doesn't even allow that option. I'm sorry, but at this point I don't see any reason to continue to use Gramps 3.1. I will be going back to 2.0 as soon as possible. Bob McConnell N2SPP |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-02-25 18:19:14
|
On 25/02/10 16:57, Doug Blank wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Bob McConnell<rmc...@li...> wrote: >> Doug Blank wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bob McConnell<rmc...@li...> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. Recently >>>> I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I >>>> didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was >>>> creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have several >>>> databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to >>>> the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have the same >>>> name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those >>>> updates into a single database. >>> <snip> Bob, Sorry if I repeat what you're already quite clear about, but to try to establish exactly what the situation is: If I understand you correctly, each time you opened the gedcom file, worked on it, then closed gramps. The next time you opened the gedcom file again for another round of editing. If so, you have a number of family trees that come up as soon as you open gramps (or you can click on Family Trees => Manage Family Trees to see them) and the order of editing should be pretty obvious from the displayed dates and times. Each time you close gramps your editing is saved into the family tree you've been working on, but *not* into the gedcom file unless you explicitly Export to Gedcom (which it sounds you haven't been doing). So the next time you open the gedcom file you start from scratch all over again: in other words the earliest family tree has your first updates, the next your second updates, and so on. What you'd need to do is to add all the earlier updating changes to the latest family tree (and I'd suggest you change its name to something more immediately informative for the future, for example using Family Trees=> Manage Family Trees=> click on the particular family tree and then Rename, type over the higlighted name and hit enter). If you can remember pretty well what changes you made on different occasions, that would be the best way out. If it presents difficulties, come back to us, and we'll have to see what we can do to help. Doug P.S. You only really want to Export the database in order to keep a long-term backup (frozen at some particular point). It's good practice, but not essential for day to day work - gramps does the saving of the curent state automatically when you close down. P.P.S. I'm using 3.1.2 |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-02-25 18:55:31
|
On 25/02/10 18:18, doug wrote: > On 25/02/10 16:57, Doug Blank wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Bob >> McConnell<rmc...@li...> wrote: >>> Doug Blank wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bob McConnell<rmc...@li...> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. >>>>> Recently >>>>> I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I >>>>> didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was >>>>> creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have >>>>> several >>>>> databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to >>>>> the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have >>>>> the same >>>>> name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those >>>>> updates into a single database. >>>> > <snip> > > Bob, > > Sorry if I repeat what you're already quite clear about, but to try to > establish exactly what the situation is: > > If I understand you correctly, each time you opened the gedcom file, > worked on it, then closed gramps. The next time you opened the gedcom > file again for another round of editing. > > If so, you have a number of family trees that come up as soon as you > open gramps (or you can click on Family Trees => Manage Family Trees > to see them) and the order of editing should be pretty obvious from > the displayed dates and times. > > Each time you close gramps your editing is saved into the family tree > you've been working on, but *not* into the gedcom file unless you > explicitly Export to Gedcom (which it sounds you haven't been doing). > So the next time you open the gedcom file you start from scratch all > over again: in other words the earliest family tree has your first > updates, the next your second updates, and so on. > > What you'd need to do is to add all the earlier updating changes to > the latest family tree (and I'd suggest you change its name to > something more immediately informative for the future, for example > using Family Trees=> Manage Family Trees=> click on the particular > family tree and then Rename, type over the higlighted name and hit > enter). > > If you can remember pretty well what changes you made on different > occasions, that would be the best way out. > If it presents difficulties, come back to us, and we'll have to see > what we can do to help. > > > Doug > > P.S. You only really want to Export the database in order to keep a > long-term backup (frozen at some particular point). It's good > practice, but not essential for day to day work - gramps does the > saving of the curent state automatically when you close down. > > P.P.S. I'm using 3.1.2 > > Follow-up: If you *have* been exporting after each edit to (the same) gedcom file, your latest family tree should already be completely up to date; there's no need to do anything further - just identify which is the last one and give it a better name. Then carry on working with the family tree and forget about gedcom until you want to make a long-term back-up or send a gedcom file to a relative. |
From: Doug B. <dou...@gm...> - 2010-02-25 16:57:26
|
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: > Doug Blank wrote: >> >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> >> wrote: >>> >>> Several whiles ago I used Gramps 2.0.12 to maintain a GED file. Recently >>> I installed 3.1.2 on another workstation to do some more updates. I >>> didn't immediately realize that it wasn't updating the file, but was >>> creating a new database each time I opened that file. Now I have several >>> databases with overlapping updates that I need to merge and export to >>> the file. To complicate matters further, the databases all have the same >>> name, so I don't know which has what. How do I merge all of those >>> updates into a single database. >> >> Bob, >> >> It isn't exactly clear what you have done, but it sounds like you have >> a mess, and I don't think that there is any easy way to undo this. In >> Gramps 3.1, one imports a GEDCOM (or any other format) into a >> database. You never need to export your data unless you want to share >> it. Every change is made to the database without you needing to save >> anything. There is no "file" to be updated, and you don't open a >> GEDCOM file---you import them into a database. > > What I did was go into the file manager and open the .GED file with Gramps, > just like I did with 2.0. I did this several times, apparently automatically > importing the file into a new database each time. Since I thought Gramps was > still a file editor, like 2.0 was, that was the way I approached it. Since > it is not, it appears I need to find a different tool or go back to 2.0. I > have no use for a unique database just to hold this information. I simply > want to update the .GED files that I exchange with other members of the > family. What I don't understand is how this happened repeatedly without any > warnings, and with all of the databases being assigned the same name. Bob, We'd be willing to help in whatever ways we can. One can't open a GEDCOM file from Gramps 3---one can only import into a database. Perhaps you kept importing into a new database and now have many versions? Have you looked in the Family Tree Manager? How many different trees are listed there? >>> As a side question, is there any way to configure Gramps to use one of >>> my PostgreSQL servers for the database? >> >> There is a new project underway called "gramps-connect" that can use a >> PostgreSQL database. It isn't quite complete yet, but you need to get >> your gramps data straighten out first anyway. Once you have your data >> ready, you can create a Postgresql database and export your data to >> it. For more details, see: > > Export is the wrong option. Having the data locked up in a specialized > private data structure is also the wrong option. If it were kept in a real > RDBMS, it would be possible to fabricate queries to generate useful > information, tables, charts, etc. But the way it appears you have the > application structured doesn't even allow that option. I'm not sure what you gleaned from your cursory view of our overview docs, but gramps-connect does store the data in a real relational DBMS, and you can use real SQL queries to do whatever you want. The way that you (currently) get your data into the tables is to do an export from gramps gtk. When we are done, one will be able to import directly from GEDCOM via the web. > I'm sorry, but at this point I don't see any reason to continue to use > Gramps 3.1. I will be going back to 2.0 as soon as possible. I'd offer to give you your money back, but, oh yeah, we're all volunteers working for free and sharing our hard work. In any event, good luck. -Doug > > Bob McConnell > N2SPP > |
From: Bob M. <rmc...@li...> - 2010-02-25 18:20:50
|
Doug Blank wrote: > > We'd be willing to help in whatever ways we can. One can't open a > GEDCOM file from Gramps 3---one can only import into a database. > Perhaps you kept importing into a new database and now have many > versions? Have you looked in the Family Tree Manager? How many > different trees are listed there? When yum installed the RPM on Fedora 11, it established a link between the GED file extension and Gramps. So when I clicked on the file in Thunar, it called Gramps and passed the GED file into it. Apparently that caused Gramps to automagically import that file and create a tree for it. There are now five trees, all with the same name as the file and different subsets of edits. Why didn't it issue a warning when it tried to create the second and subsequent trees? It shouldn't be able to reuse the same name for multiple data sets and should prevent you from overwriting or duplicating an existing tree. From your description of Gramps-connect, that is simply an export pipe to copy the data into a real database manager. That shouldn't have to be a copy, but should be where the application normally keeps all of its data. Requiring extra steps to import and export data will always cause problems, even without disguising that requirement occasionally (see first paragraph). Since what I really need is an editor for GED files, it is apparent that I should keep looking. I thought 2.0 was a good start in that direction, but that was on MythDora 4 (FC6). I'll have to see if I can find a copy of it for a more current distribution. Oh, one other suggestion. I noticed there were a couple of selections in the Edit menu that required two people be highlighted. But I didn't see an option to create a relationship. It would be useful to be able to highlight two records and create a relationship between them, via the Edit menu and/or the right-click pop-up menu. Thank you, Bob McConnell N2SPP |
From: Doug B. <dou...@gm...> - 2010-02-25 18:37:03
|
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: > Doug Blank wrote: >> >> We'd be willing to help in whatever ways we can. One can't open a >> GEDCOM file from Gramps 3---one can only import into a database. >> Perhaps you kept importing into a new database and now have many >> versions? Have you looked in the Family Tree Manager? How many >> different trees are listed there? > > When yum installed the RPM on Fedora 11, it established a link between the > GED file extension and Gramps. So when I clicked on the file in Thunar, it > called Gramps and passed the GED file into it. Apparently that caused Gramps > to automagically import that file and create a tree for it. There are now > five trees, all with the same name as the file and different subsets of > edits. > > Why didn't it issue a warning when it tried to create the second and > subsequent trees? It shouldn't be able to reuse the same name for multiple > data sets and should prevent you from overwriting or duplicating an existing > tree. Sounds like a bug. > From your description of Gramps-connect, that is simply an export pipe to > copy the data into a real database manager. That shouldn't have to be a > copy, but should be where the application normally keeps all of its data. > Requiring extra steps to import and export data will always cause problems, > even without disguising that requirement occasionally (see first paragraph). Do you want the data in tables or not? If you want to leave it in the existing tables, then don't export it to gramps-connect. If you want to work with your data in tables, then use gramps-connect? You can't do both (not yet anyway). > Since what I really need is an editor for GED files, it is apparent that I > should keep looking. I thought 2.0 was a good start in that direction, but > that was on MythDora 4 (FC6). I'll have to see if I can find a copy of it > for a more current distribution. Gramps is not a GEDCOM editor. GEDCOM has many limitations. > Oh, one other suggestion. I noticed there were a couple of selections in the > Edit menu that required two people be highlighted. But I didn't see an > option to create a relationship. It would be useful to be able to highlight > two records and create a relationship between them, via the Edit menu and/or > the right-click pop-up menu. That would be one way to do it. If we had an infinite number of monkeys programming Gramps, we might be able to do it all. Unfortunately, our monkey count is finite. But many of our users make feature requests, and some of the monkeys implement them. It is actually a nice little ecosystem. -Doug > > Thank you, > > Bob McConnell > N2SPP > |
From: Bob M. <rmc...@li...> - 2010-02-25 20:58:40
|
Doug Blank wrote: > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: >> From your description of Gramps-connect, that is simply an export pipe to >> copy the data into a real database manager. That shouldn't have to be a >> copy, but should be where the application normally keeps all of its data. >> Requiring extra steps to import and export data will always cause problems, >> even without disguising that requirement occasionally (see first paragraph). > > Do you want the data in tables or not? If you want to leave it in the > existing tables, then don't export it to gramps-connect. If you want > to work with your data in tables, then use gramps-connect? You can't > do both (not yet anyway). I don't want any application to store *my* data in a form and location where I have to use that application to access it. It should also be accessible from multiple machines simultaneously, even over a VPN. If we could do that, we wouldn't need to be passing these files around. I could give all of my correspondents remote access to one of my servers where we would maintain a single data set. I did figure out how to rename and export each tree. I then used `diff` to identify the differences between them. Apart from an amazing number of meaningless timestamps, there were actually very few differences. It looked like timestamps were being updated every time I viewed a record, whether it was changed or not. >> Since what I really need is an editor for GED files, it is apparent that I >> should keep looking. I thought 2.0 was a good start in that direction, but >> that was on MythDora 4 (FC6). I'll have to see if I can find a copy of it >> for a more current distribution. > > Gramps is not a GEDCOM editor. GEDCOM has many limitations. The theoretical limitations of GEDCOM are irrelevant, it has been completely adequate for our needs. One last question before I unsubscribe. Can I open two instances of Gramps simultaneously viewing different family trees? That would allow me to do a side by side comparison. I also need to compare the latest version with the copy on rootsweb, which I just downloaded. If those numbers in the lower right corner are head counts, there is a difference of 29 people between them. Thank you, Bob McConnell N2SPP |
From: Nick W. <ni...@be...> - 2010-02-25 23:03:29
|
>> Gramps is not a GEDCOM editor. GEDCOM has many limitations. > > The theoretical limitations of GEDCOM are irrelevant, it has been > completely adequate for our needs. Well, you have used it for your needs, as it is the closest thing to a 'standard' that there is. But it has both representational and data model shortcomings. If you are willing to overlook and/or work around those, staying in a GEDCOM environment may well be the way for you to go. If you have not worked with PhpGedView, you may want to take a look. It may provide that 'stay in GEDCOM' approach while also allowing for multiple users, etc. My personal approach, because I really *like* Gramps' improvement on the data modelling (among other things) is to work with my data in Gramps - knowing that anytime I wish, I can export the material back to GEDCOM. And know that Gramps' data saved in the XML format has the potential to *always* remain importable... Nick Wallingford Tauranga, NZ |
From: Benny M. <ben...@gm...> - 2010-02-26 08:44:56
|
2010/2/25 Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...>: > Doug Blank wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Bob McConnell <rmc...@li...> wrote: >>> From your description of Gramps-connect, that is simply an export pipe to >>> copy the data into a real database manager. That shouldn't have to be a >>> copy, but should be where the application normally keeps all of its data. >>> Requiring extra steps to import and export data will always cause problems, >>> even without disguising that requirement occasionally (see first paragraph). >> >> Do you want the data in tables or not? If you want to leave it in the >> existing tables, then don't export it to gramps-connect. If you want >> to work with your data in tables, then use gramps-connect? You can't >> do both (not yet anyway). > > I don't want any application to store *my* data in a form and location > where I have to use that application to access it. It should also be > accessible from multiple machines simultaneously, even over a VPN. If we > could do that, we wouldn't need to be passing these files around. I > could give all of my correspondents remote access to one of my servers > where we would maintain a single data set. > > I did figure out how to rename and export each tree. I then used `diff` > to identify the differences between them. Apart from an amazing number > of meaningless timestamps, there were actually very few differences. It > looked like timestamps were being updated every time I viewed a record, > whether it was changed or not. > Yes, I was going to suggest that: export to gedcom and do diff. But a rename of all timestamps is needed, the new timestamp every time is a bug that will be fixed in next version. The workflow to do what you did in 2.2 in 3.x would be: import gedcom in new family tree, update family tree (atomic writes to database, no fear of data loss), export to gedcom when finished, remove family tree. Then all will be identical as what happened in 2.2 without the user being aware it happened like that. Further, I want to point out that you are mistaken in the believe that gramps 2.x is a direct Gedcom editor. In reality it imports gedcom in a memory database as the one you see in 3.0 on disk, edits that, and on exit writes out the gedcom again. So it is a bit of an illusion that goes on. Obviously this led to many problems on crashes as the inmem db does not have atomic commits and also no roll back, causing 3.0 to remove that option, and do an import in a real database instead. Due to the fact that Gedcom is an unmaintained standard, there are at the moment no real gedcom genealogy applications left, all have in one way or the other extended Gedcom for their own needs Gramps can fully export to the last revistion GEDCOM 5.5, but not all data present in Gramps is present in the GEDCOM. Hence, as a Gedcom editor, it is not really good, but then, as said, all genea apps of 2010 will show this problem. Gedcom is only valid as used by people to exchange information. Most genea apps have extended Gedcom so the program itself can fully read it's own generated gedcom (but other apps not). Gramps has decided to stick with the last standard, and use it's own free, open, file format, the gramps xml, for gramps to gramps data exchange. Anyway, all these decisions seem reasonable and well thought through to me. As to the problem of multiple imports in different family trees, that is indeed how it is designed now. A warning when it happens would indeed be a usability improvement, I opened a bug for it: http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=3641 Benny >>> Since what I really need is an editor for GED files, it is apparent that I >>> should keep looking. I thought 2.0 was a good start in that direction, but >>> that was on MythDora 4 (FC6). I'll have to see if I can find a copy of it >>> for a more current distribution. >> >> Gramps is not a GEDCOM editor. GEDCOM has many limitations. > > The theoretical limitations of GEDCOM are irrelevant, it has been > completely adequate for our needs. > > One last question before I unsubscribe. Can I open two instances of > Gramps simultaneously viewing different family trees? That would allow > me to do a side by side comparison. I also need to compare the latest > version with the copy on rootsweb, which I just downloaded. If those > numbers in the lower right corner are head counts, there is a difference > of 29 people between them. > > Thank you, > > Bob McConnell > N2SPP > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > |