From: Les <btr...@bt...> - 2010-07-31 13:10:59
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Hi All, This may be of interest to some? Daily Mail - Sat 31 July – England. Royal Mall to axe counties HAIL from Avon? You could soon be telling people you are from BS11. Royal Mail is removing county names from the official Postcode Address File by 2016. The file is used by private companies and public bodies who, for a fee, can access addresses for 28 million homes and businesses in the country. The first to face the axe will be obsolete postal names such as Gwynedd, Sussex, Cleveland and Avon. This will be followed by all county names because the postal service needs only a house number, street name and postcode. Ian Beesley, who advises Royal Mail on the databases, said county names had become a ‘vanity attachment’ and were not necessary for business purposes. . But he added: ‘People do get ’ very worked up about it. It is in our heritage. I want to say I was born in Lancashire, not in M20 ------------------------------------ All the best >From Les. |
From: Les <btr...@bt...> - 2010-08-01 08:42:18
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Hi Brad, It was just another pointer to there being less information available for future Genealogical research, along with the lack of marriage registrations etc. The UK government is also talking about the 2011 census being the last one to be held. We think we have it hard, but future research into the present, looks like it will be almost impossible. Les > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:44:09 +0100 > From: Les <btr...@bt...> > Subject: [Gramps-users] UK Postal Addresses > To: gra...@li... > Message-ID: <1280580249.2231.3.camel@les-desktop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi All, > This may be of interest to some? > > Daily Mail - Sat 31 July ? England. > > Royal Mall to axe counties > > HAIL from Avon? You could soon be telling people you are from BS11. > > Royal Mail is removing county names from the official Postcode Address > File by 2016. > > The file is used by private companies and public bodies who, for a fee, > can access addresses for 28 million homes and businesses in the country. > > The first to face the axe will be obsolete postal names such as Gwynedd, > Sussex, Cleveland and Avon. > > This will be followed by all county names because the postal service > needs only a house number, street name and postcode. > > Ian Beesley, who advises Royal Mail on the databases, said county names > had become a ?vanity attachment? and were not necessary for business > purposes. . > > But he added: ?People do get ? very worked up about it. It is in our > heritage. I want to say I was born in Lancashire, not in M20 > ------------------------------------ > > All the best > >From Les. |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-08-01 15:26:27
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On 01/08/10 09:42, Les wrote: > Hi Brad, > It was just another pointer to there being less information > available for future Genealogical research, along with the > lack of marriage registrations etc. > The UK government is also talking about the 2011 census > being the last one to be held. > We think we have it hard, but future research into the > present, looks like it will be almost impossible. > > Les > > <snip> It's going to make tying up historical locations with their geographical positions extremely difficult. The postcode<=>location translation database is huge; the mapping is complex and often seemingly quite arbitrary. AFAICT recording a location's lat/long in gramps will be a necessity in future, as there's no guarantee postcodes are going to be frozen forever in tablets of stone (my own postcode address has changed over the years). Les, do you know how the UK government is proposing to get its demographic data if it abandons the censuses? Doug |
From: Brad R. <br...@fi...> - 2010-08-01 15:52:46
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:23:12 +0100 doug <do...@o2...> wrote: Hello doug, > Les, do you know how the UK government is proposing to get > its demographic data if it abandons the censuses? Extant public body and private company databases is the proposal. Whether it actually happens or not remains to be seen. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" They said we'd be artistically free, but that was on a bit of paper Complete Control - The Clash |
From: Brad R. <br...@fi...> - 2010-08-01 15:52:44
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On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:42:08 +0100 Les <btr...@bt...> wrote: Hello Les, > It was just another pointer to there being less information available From the Post Office, which isn't a legislative body. Further, the article was in the Daily Mail, a paper not well known for accuracy. I can't see counties, as part of info gathered about us, falling out of use any time soon. The PO may not need the county name (they haven't for years, in fact) but that won't stop people writing it and other bodies collecting it. Take a person's age, for example. How many forms ask for a date of birth _and_ an age? A pointless exercise since knowledge of the former allows one to easily determine the latter. It's common practise to ask redundant questions. > We think we have it hard, but future research into the present, looks Actually, quite the contrary; We have it *easy*, with many things being online for us. It was much harder before the 1990s when people had to travel all over the place to find the information they wanted. In any event, all the data you mentioned (census, vital events, addresses) were not designed for genealogists. That we can use them is merely a happy coincidence. Lack of them means we may well have to be more creative, just like those searching for ancestors in Ireland. Anyhow, none of this has any impact on Gramps and its use, which was the point of my (rhetorical) question. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Tired of doing day jobs with no thanks for what I do Do Anything You Wanna Do - Eddie & The Hotrods |
From: Nick H. <nic...@ho...> - 2010-08-01 16:12:14
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doug wrote: > On 01/08/10 09:42, Les wrote: > >> Hi Brad, >> It was just another pointer to there being less information >> available for future Genealogical research, along with the >> lack of marriage registrations etc. >> The UK government is also talking about the 2011 census >> being the last one to be held. >> We think we have it hard, but future research into the >> present, looks like it will be almost impossible. >> >> Les >> >> >> > <snip> > It's going to make tying up historical locations with their > geographical positions extremely difficult. The > postcode<=>location translation database is huge; the > mapping is complex and often seemingly quite arbitrary. > AFAICT recording a location's lat/long in gramps will be a > necessity in future, as there's no guarantee postcodes are > going to be frozen forever in tablets of stone (my own > postcode address has changed over the years). > > Les, do you know how the UK government is proposing to get > its demographic data if it abandons the censuses? > > Here is a link to an article on the BBC News website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10584385 Nick. > Doug > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users > > > |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-08-01 17:54:55
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On 01/08/10 17:12, Nick Hall wrote: > > > doug wrote: >> On 01/08/10 09:42, Les wrote: >>> Hi Brad, >>> It was just another pointer to there being less information >>> available for future Genealogical research, along with the >>> lack of marriage registrations etc. >>> The UK government is also talking about the 2011 census >>> being the last one to be held. >>> We think we have it hard, but future research into the >>> present, looks like it will be almost impossible. >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >> <snip> >> It's going to make tying up historical locations with >> their geographical positions extremely difficult. The >> postcode<=>location translation database is huge; the >> mapping is complex and often seemingly quite arbitrary. >> AFAICT recording a location's lat/long in gramps will be a >> necessity in future, as there's no guarantee postcodes are >> going to be frozen forever in tablets of stone (my own >> postcode address has changed over the years). >> >> Les, do you know how the UK government is proposing to get >> its demographic data if it abandons the censuses? >> > > Here is a link to an article on the BBC News website: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10584385 > > > Nick. > Thanks, Nick Doug |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-07-31 15:24:08
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On 31/07/10 13:44, Les wrote: > Hi All, > This may be of interest to some? > > _Daily Mail - Sat 31 July – England._ > > _*Royal Mall to axe counties*_ > > HAIL from Avon? You could soon be telling people you are > from BS11. > > Royal Mail is removing county names from the official > Postcode Address File by 2016. > > The file is used by private companies and public bodies who, > for a fee, can access addresses for 28 million homes and > businesses in the country. > > The first to face the axe will be obsolete postal names such > as Gwynedd, Sussex, Cleveland and Avon. > > This will be followed by all county names because the postal > service needs only a house number, street name and postcode. > > Ian Beesley, who advises Royal Mail on the databases, said > county names had become a ‘vanity attachment’ and were not > necessary for business purposes. . > > But he added: ‘People do get ’ very worked up about it. It > is in our heritage. I want to say I was born in Lancashire, > not in M20 ------------------------------------ > > All the best > >From Les. > What a preposterous idea! All one with abolishing pounds, shillings and pence. What happens to "he's a Lancashire lad"? For that matter what happened to "spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar", "penny wise, pound foolish", "a kid for two farthings", etc.etc.? Subsides with more blimpish mutterings.................... Doug |
From: Brad R. <br...@fi...> - 2010-07-31 20:12:49
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:44:09 +0100 Les <btr...@bt...> wrote: Hello Les, > Royal Mall to axe counties Explain, please, how this affects Gramps. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" I hope I live to relive the days gone by Old Before I Die - Robbie Williams |
From: Jérôme <rom...@ya...> - 2010-08-01 08:14:51
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Hi, Thank you for the info. Note, since I started genealogical seizure, I do not use any Postal number on place. I rather use the value used on archives and national statistics. This makes sense, because postal number is a related to the postal market. In france, it the INSEE code but I guess on UK, it is the Chapman Code [1] ? Note, year 2016 is not very important for genealogical searchs, isn't it ? [1] http://www.wykes.org/ukdist/aggrhelp.html [2] http://www.wykes.org/ukdist/ Les a écrit : > Hi All, > This may be of interest to some? > > Daily Mail - Sat 31 July – England. > > *Royal Mall to axe counties* > > HAIL from Avon? You could soon be telling people you are from BS11. > > Royal Mail is removing county names from the official Postcode Address > File by 2016. > > The file is used by private companies and public bodies who, for a fee, > can access addresses for 28 million homes and businesses in the country. > > The first to face the axe will be obsolete postal names such as Gwynedd, > Sussex, Cleveland and Avon. > > This will be followed by all county names because the postal service > needs only a house number, street name and postcode. > > Ian Beesley, who advises Royal Mail on the databases, said county names > had become a ‘vanity attachment’ and were not necessary for business > purposes. . > > But he added: ‘People do get ’ very worked up about it. It is in our > heritage. I want to say I was born in Lancashire, not in M20 > ------------------------------------ > > All the best > >From Les. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-users mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users |
From: Tim L. <guy...@gm...> - 2010-08-06 21:45:11
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Brad Rogers wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:44:09 +0100 > Les <btr...@bt...> wrote: > > Hello Les, > >> Royal Mall to axe counties > > Explain, please, how this affects Gramps. > I appreciate that this was probably partly a rhetorical question, but the way it affects Gramps is that Gramps very sensibly and correctly follows other genealogical systems (especially GEDCOM) in having a rather defective data model. All the data models do not really allow for recording both what is shown in the source document (for example Southwark, Surrey) and also other addresses by which the place can be found at various times, (for example, London Road, LONDON, SE1 6JZ) and the time at which the various addresses are valid. [for the avoidance of doubt, LONDON here is the post town, not the county - it seems that London does not actually have a county at present - it is part of Greater London, but that is not a county]. Please note that I am not advocating any change to Gramps. As I mentioned before, I plan to use the Place name to record what was on the original source document, and the structured data in the Location to record some convenient data that more or less relates to how to find the place now. As mentioned before, at least the Lat/Long does not change (pace continental drift and earthquakes etc.) -- View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/UK-Postal-Addresses-tp2308846p2316869.html Sent from the GRAMPS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
From: Cedric S. <ce...@no...> - 2010-08-07 13:57:50
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On Friday 06 August 2010 22:45:03 Tim Lyons wrote: > Brad Rogers wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:44:09 +0100 > > Les <btr...@bt...> wrote: > > > > Hello Les, > > > >> Royal Mall to axe counties > > > > Explain, please, how this affects Gramps. > > I appreciate that this was probably partly a rhetorical question, but the > way it affects Gramps is that Gramps very sensibly and correctly follows > other genealogical systems (especially GEDCOM) in having a rather defective > data model. All the data models do not really allow for recording both what > is shown in the source document (for example Southwark, Surrey) and also > other addresses by which the place can be found at various times, (for > example, London Road, LONDON, SE1 6JZ) and the time at which the various > addresses are valid. [for the avoidance of doubt, LONDON here is the post > town, not the county - it seems that London does not actually have a county > at present - it is part of Greater London, but that is not a county]. > > Please note that I am not advocating any change to Gramps. As I mentioned > before, I plan to use the Place name to record what was on the original > source document, and the structured data in the Location to record some > convenient data that more or less relates to how to find the place now. > > As mentioned before, at least the Lat/Long does not change (pace > continental drift and earthquakes etc.) > Latitude and Longitude have changed unfortunately - the Lat/Long reported by a GPS receiver is about 100 metres different from that on a marine chart of the UK. Read about WGS84 on Wikipedia. cedric |
From: doug <do...@o2...> - 2010-08-09 09:46:47
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On 07/08/10 14:35, Cedric Scott wrote: <snip> >> >> Please note that I am not advocating any change to Gramps. As I mentioned >> before, I plan to use the Place name to record what was on the original >> source document, and the structured data in the Location to record some >> convenient data that more or less relates to how to find the place now. >> >> As mentioned before, at least the Lat/Long does not change (pace >> continental drift and earthquakes etc.) >> > > Latitude and Longitude have changed unfortunately - the Lat/Long reported by a > GPS receiver is about 100 metres different from that on a marine chart of the > UK. Read about WGS84 on Wikipedia. > > cedric > True, but hopefully our WGS84 marine charts - where it matters - won't be needing further major change. As for land maps, a circle of uncertainty of 100 metres probably doesn't make a lot of difference for our purposes. It's only a change in the second decimal place (if you record the Lat/Long as decimal) or about 0.1 minutes Long. (if you record as degrees and minutes) in the UK. Doug |
From: Brad R. <br...@fi...> - 2010-08-16 15:23:44
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On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Tim Lyons <guy...@gm...> wrote: Hello Tim, > I appreciate that this was probably partly a rhetorical question, but > the Indeed it was. The points being that; a) Royal Mail don't pass laws, and therefore can't dissolve counties, b) it was reported in the Daily Mail! -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is / _)rad never immediately apparent" Bet you thought you had it all worked out Problem - Sex Pistols |